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Levein’s time is up...


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1 minute ago, Forever Hearts said:

Livi's average wage is £670 per week, Hearts is £2,100. Close enough to a quarter? 

 Where did Livi finish in the league?

Did Livi have the serious injuries to key players we've had?

Even if we accept Livi, that's just one club that figures have been produced for.

What was the source/ accounting years from which these figures were taken, if any?

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BOBTHEBRUCE
1 minute ago, redjambo said:

 

Great. Source please.

 

And do remember that Bob also listed Killie and St Johnstone as those clubs with a quarter of our playing budget.

 

You've got issues mate. 

Even if it was a half of our budget, they're still doing a better job than Levein. 

You're just deflecting from the actual point. 

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Forever Hearts
3 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Great. Source please.

 

And do remember that Bob also listed Killie and St Johnstone as those clubs with a quarter of our playing budget.

CELTIC continue to have a vast financial advantage over the rest of the Scottish Premiership, according to the 2018 Global Sports Salaries Survey.

The report, produced by sportingintelligence.com, states that first-team players at the reigning Scottish champions pick up a basic weekly average of £16,646 – £865,614 annually.

In comparison, Rangers pay their players £8,972 per week, which amounts to a median of £466,556 over a 12-month period.

These figures have increased from the 2017 report, which said Celtic and Rangers handed out weekly wages of £14,135 and £6,338 respectively.

In turn, Celtic have risen four places to 199th out of 349 global sports teams surveyed, with Rangers climbing 13 to 243rd compared to last year’s survey.

Aberdeen are third on the domestic list at £2,667 (£138,667), with Hearts fourth with £2,146 (£111,600), just ahead of city rivals Hibs at £1,988 (£103,376).

The reports shows the gap between the richest and the poorest is growing, with top-flight newcomers Livingston paying the least amount on salaries at £671 per week (£34,882).

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Lord Beni of Gorgie
18 minutes ago, jake said:

There has to be a clear out of the "coaching staff" .

The club now has a losing mentality.

Right through?

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Just now, Sir Gio said:

Right through?

I couldn't honestly answer that?

 

I meant the senior coaching staff I suppose.

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rick witter
3 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

When does this thread expire?

When the clown in charge is no longer in charge. Hopefully very soon. 

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Lord Beni of Gorgie
2 minutes ago, jake said:

I couldn't honestly answer that?

 

I meant the senior coaching staff I suppose.

Reserves and youth teams have been doing well. 

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The Real Maroonblood
1 hour ago, BOBTHEBRUCE said:

I'd like to add my favourite spell at Hearts in recent years. 

 

RUDI SKACEL. 

 

Who was the guy that didn't give him a new contract...

 

Aye, he was at the end of his career

It's alright to sign the likes of Hughes and Mclean though eh?

It's fine to offer coaching roles to every other tom dick and harry!

 

If anyone deserved another years contract and a coaching role, it was Skacel!

 

 

Rude would have been to popular for Levein’s ego to handle.

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1 minute ago, Forever Hearts said:

CELTIC continue to have a vast financial advantage over the rest of the Scottish Premiership, according to the 2018 Global Sports Salaries Survey.

The report, produced by sportingintelligence.com, states that first-team players at the reigning Scottish champions pick up a basic weekly average of £16,646 – £865,614 annually.

In comparison, Rangers pay their players £8,972 per week, which amounts to a median of £466,556 over a 12-month period.

These figures have increased from the 2017 report, which said Celtic and Rangers handed out weekly wages of £14,135 and £6,338 respectively.

In turn, Celtic have risen four places to 199th out of 349 global sports teams surveyed, with Rangers climbing 13 to 243rd compared to last year’s survey.

Aberdeen are third on the domestic list at £2,667 (£138,667), with Hearts fourth with £2,146 (£111,600), just ahead of city rivals Hibs at £1,988 (£103,376).

The reports shows the gap between the richest and the poorest is growing, with top-flight newcomers Livingston paying the least amount on salaries at £671 per week (£34,882).

 

Sweet. Thanks FH. I like someone who puts the stats where his mouth is, despite that Livvy figure being far closer to a third than a quarter.

 

For anyone who is interested, the report can be downloaded here - http://www.globalsportssalaries.com/GSSS 2018.pdf

 

Here's a summary of the results (annual wages as a % of Hearts, and in order of current league position):

 

Celtic                   £865,614 (776%)

Rangers             £466,556 (418%)

Aberdeen           £138,667 (124%)

Kilmarnock       £62,816 (56%)

Hibs                     £103,376 (93%)

Hearts                £111,600 (100%)

St Johnstone  £48,630 (44%)

Motherwell       £47,342 (42%)

Livingston        £34,882 (31%)
Hamilton           £47,879 (43%)

St Mirren           £41,169 (37%)

Dundee              £62,833 (56%)

 

These show that the standout performers with regards to the wage bill are Killie, and the standout non-performers are Dundee.

 

There, now that we have some real and reasonably up-to-date figures, as opposed to those created for fun, we can argue on the facts.

 

 

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The Real Maroonblood
12 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

When does this thread expire?

Hopefully at the end of season.

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Lord Beni of Gorgie
9 minutes ago, rick witter said:

When the clown in charge is no longer in charge. Hopefully very soon. 

Hmmmm.....see your frustration growing  :lol:

 

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1 hour ago, JamboAl said:

You're absolutely right.

And "here and now" we don't have the finance to satisfy many people's expectations nor do we/should we have the inclination to get into debt and replicate the mess we were in just a few short years ago.

 

I haven’t really seen an awful lot of people advocating that we go bananas with the finances and get into debt. I have, however, read a lot of comments by people who realise that a very considerable amount of money has been squandered on fat contracts for terrible players (Sammon and Martin spring to mind) and the signing of many players who look average at best. Our scouting and our signings policy seem to have been far from satisfactory in recent years. That’s an issue for any business operating on a tight budget. Have we had quantity over quality?

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BOBTHEBRUCE

I really doubt that Levein will be here next season. 

Not sure what people will argue about after that. 

Maybe just fractions and percentages. 

 

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19 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

When does this thread expire?

 

Hopefully the 26th of May when he retires on the ultimate high with a Cup.

thats the dream 

hoofing with some luck - never know

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5 minutes ago, BOBTHEBRUCE said:

I really doubt that Levein will be here next season. 

Not sure what people will argue about after that. 

Maybe just fractions and percentages. 

 

 

:D You started it by spouting utter shite, now proven to be the case.

 

Craig will hopefully have stepped down by the start of next season's pre-season. We'll always have plenty to argue about though, as ever, but hopefully anyone who includes "facts" in their posts won't just making those facts up on the spot like you did in this thread. But if they do, perhaps I'll be there, keeping them straight. ;)

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Lord Beni of Gorgie
12 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:

 

Hopefully the 26th of May when he retires on the ultimate high with a Cup.

thats the dream 

hoofing with some luck - never know

I would be delighted 

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BOBTHEBRUCE
17 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

:D You started it by spouting utter shite, now proven to be the case.

 

Craig will hopefully have stepped down by the start of next season's pre-season. We'll always have plenty to argue about though, as ever, but hopefully anyone who includes "facts" in their posts won't just making those facts up on the spot like you did in this thread. But if they do, perhaps I'll be there, keeping them straight. ;)

 

Hey babe, take a walk on the wild side. 

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Lord Beni of Gorgie
7 minutes ago, jake said:

Which is good.

 

Suggests infrastructure is good. Club not riddled with a losers mentality 

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8 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

Suggests infrastructure is good. Club not riddled with a losers mentality 

The first team represents the club football wise.

I am not one to have a go at players or management.

There is however so many basic things wrong with our play and our run of results are screaming out for change.

 

Losing is now the mentality of the first team .

 

And that effects the club as a whole.

 

Reluctantly I will renew but its blind loyalty as going to watch Hearts is absolutely gash just now.

 

Ps.

And I've seen plenty rotten Hearts teams

Edited by jake
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4 hours ago, leginten said:

 

I haven’t really seen an awful lot of people advocating that we go bananas with the finances and get into debt. I have, however, read a lot of comments by people who realise that a very considerable amount of money has been squandered on fat contracts for terrible players (Sammon and Martin spring to mind) and the signing of many players who look average at best. Our scouting and our signings policy seem to have been far from satisfactory in recent years. That’s an issue for any business operating on a tight budget. Have we had quantity over quality?

The issue was that other managers do better on a quarter of the finances and not one team pays a quarter of what we pay.  In other words, he was talking bullshit!

Another point to consider is that we had unusually high injuries to our top players which in effect meant a lot of dead money while they were out but that is hardly relevant in view of my previous sentence.

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4 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

Sweet. Thanks FH. I like someone who puts the stats where his mouth is, despite that Livvy figure being far closer to a third than a quarter.

 

For anyone who is interested, the report can be downloaded here - http://www.globalsportssalaries.com/GSSS 2018.pdf

 

Here's a summary of the results (annual wages as a % of Hearts, and in order of current league position):

 

Celtic                   £865,614 (776%)

Rangers             £466,556 (418%)

Aberdeen           £138,667 (124%)

Kilmarnock       £62,816 (56%)

Hibs                     £103,376 (93%)

Hearts                £111,600 (100%)

St Johnstone  £48,630 (44%)

Motherwell       £47,342 (42%)

Livingston        £34,882 (31%)
Hamilton           £47,879 (43%)

St Mirren           £41,169 (37%)

Dundee              £62,833 (56%)

 

These show that the standout performers with regards to the wage bill are Killie, and the standout non-performers are Dundee.

 

There, now that we have some real and reasonably up-to-date figures, as opposed to those created for fun, we can argue on the facts.

 

 

 

All this proves yet again is we’d have a great competitive league if the OF would just eff off to England.

 

Also, Aberdeen have spent an awful lot of money on one League Cup win.

 

 

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45 minutes ago, JamboAl said:

The issue was that other managers do better on a quarter of the finances and not one team pays a quarter of what we pay.  In other words, he was talking bullshit!

Another point to consider is that we had unusually high injuries to our top players which in effect meant a lot of dead money while they were out but that is hardly relevant in view of my previous sentence.

 

This thread isn’t really about finances. You made a point about finances in relation to my post about complacency, so I replied. Finances may be your issue on here, but it’s not mine - unless it’s to lament their squandering.

 

Sending out a team devoid of drive and urgency isn’t a matter of finance. Nor is sending out a team which is, apparently, unable to follow the manager’s own instructions. Nor is sending out a team which throws in the towel and capitulates 5-0 to a club with a third of our budget. Nor is the failure to halt a run of poor form and dreadful football which has lasted close on seven months.

 

All of the above are issues of one thing only, and it’s what this thread is about. Management.

Edited by leginten
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shaun.lawson
10 minutes ago, leginten said:

 

This thread isn’t really about finances. You made a point about finances in relation to my post about complacency, so I replied. Finances may be your issue on here, but it’s not mine - unless it’s to lament their squandering.

 

Sending out a team devoid of drive and urgency isn’t a matter of finance. Nor is sending out a team which is, apparently, unable to follow the manager’s own instructions. Nor is sending out a team which throws in the towel and capitulates 5-0 to a club with a third of our budget. Nor is the failure to halt a run of poor form and dreadful football which has lasted close on seven months.

 

All of the above are issues of one thing only, and it’s what this thread is about. Management.

 

Very good post.

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39 minutes ago, leginten said:

 

This thread isn’t really about finances. You made a point about finances in relation to my post about complacency, so I replied. Finances may be your issue on here, but it’s not mine - unless it’s to lament their squandering.

 

Sending out a team devoid of drive and urgency isn’t a matter of finance. Nor is sending out a team which is, apparently, unable to follow the manager’s own instructions. Nor is sending out a team which throws in the towel and capitulates 5-0 to a club with a third of our budget. Nor is the failure to halt a run of poor form and dreadful football which has lasted close on seven months.

 

All of the above are issues of one thing only, and it’s what this thread is about. Management.

I taken issue with the 7 months although you may just be referring to this season. It's gone on for more than three years now and it's such a kick in the teeth following that terrific  championship season.  I am heart sick of it and it's the polar opposite of what I thought was going to happen.

 

Some of the football side of Hearts has been downright embarrassing.  Massive recruitment in virtually every transfer window.  Not a glimmer that a strong united squad is being developed which will entertain and compete for trophies.

 

Wer'e in the Cup final thanks to a dream fun of fixtures which was long overdue. I think Craig Levein has tried his hardest but he has fallen well short and should leave on 26th May.

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Pasquale for King
8 hours ago, BOBTHEBRUCE said:

I'd like to add my favourite spell at Hearts in recent years. 

 

RUDI SKACEL. 

 

Who was the guy that didn't give him a new contract...

 

Aye, he was at the end of his career

It's alright to sign the likes of Hughes and Mclean though eh?

It's fine to offer coaching roles to every other tom dick and harry!

 

If anyone deserved another years contract and a coaching role, it was Skacel!

 

 

That is a fantastic point ??

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1 minute ago, Kiwidoug said:

I taken issue with the 7 months although you may just be referring to this season. It's gone on for more than three years now and it's such a kick in the teeth following that terrific  championship season.  I am heart sick of it and it's the polar opposite of what I thought was going to happen.

 

Some of the football side of Hearts has been downright embarrassing.  Massive recruitment in virtually every transfer window.  Not a glimmer that a strong united squad is being developed which will entertain and compete for trophies.

 

Wer'e in the Cup final thanks to a dream fun of fixtures which was long overdue. I think Craig Levein has tried his hardest but he has fallen well short and should leave on 26th May.

 

I was talking about this season, Doug. I agree that the football has, in the main, been rotten since some time in the autumn of our first season back up. But you also have to give Craig Levein credit for a fantastic start to the season this year. We have imploded quite spectacularly, though. 

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Pasquale for King
1 hour ago, leginten said:

 

This thread isn’t really about finances. You made a point about finances in relation to my post about complacency, so I replied. Finances may be your issue on here, but it’s not mine - unless it’s to lament their squandering.

 

Sending out a team devoid of drive and urgency isn’t a matter of finance. Nor is sending out a team which is, apparently, unable to follow the manager’s own instructions. Nor is sending out a team which throws in the towel and capitulates 5-0 to a club with a third of our budget. Nor is the failure to halt a run of poor form and dreadful football which has lasted close on seven months.

 

All of the above are issues of one thing only, and it’s what this thread is about. Management.

Ouch, well said.

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siegementality
13 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Who were 5000/1. And what they did probably won't happen again for 100 years!

Says who?

 

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siegementality

Levein has a position on the board, he is Director of football and first team manager.

 

Given the influence he has over the club - in all three positions - surely to feck it is time is shown the door. We are a fecking shambles and he is the common denominator. Time to get rid.

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queensferryjambo
9 hours ago, BOBTHEBRUCE said:

I'd like to add my favourite spell at Hearts in recent years. 

 

RUDI SKACEL. 

 

Who was the guy that didn't give him a new contract...

 

Aye, he was at the end of his career

It's alright to sign the likes of Hughes and Mclean though eh?

It's fine to offer coaching roles to every other tom dick and harry!

 

If anyone deserved another years contract and a coaching role, it was Skacel!

 

 

 

 

You are going to have to give us a clue who didn't give him another years contract?

 

Romanov? McGlinn? David Southern? Skacel left the club in 2012. Even if the people who were actually at the club at the time had wanted Skacel didn't we also have a few transfer bans in the 2 years following Rudi leaving?

 

 

 

 

 

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shaun.lawson
1 hour ago, siegementality said:

Says who?

 

 

Says me, knobby-drawers :)

 

Give it another 6 years or so, and Leicester probably won't even be in the same league as the English giants. Not through anything to do with them, but because the sheer dystopian misery of a European Super League is still a matter of when, not if.

 

How did Leicester win it in the first place? It took Manchester City, Manchester United, Chelsea and Liverpool all to screw up at the same time; plus Arsenal Arsenal-ing it up and Tottenham not being quite ready yet. It also took the never-to-be-repeated absolute freak of the side with least possession in the entire league winning it. 

 

Contrast that with Scotland. Even when Deila was embarrassing himself with Celtic, they walked it regardless. 

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2 hours ago, siegementality said:

Levein has a position on the board, he is Director of football and first team manager.

 

Given the influence he has over the club - in all three positions - surely to feck it is time is shown the door. We are a fecking shambles and he is the common denominator. Time to get rid.

Absolutely agree! 

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Alex Kintner

Celtic                   £865,614 (776%)

Rangers             £466,556 (418%)

Aberdeen           £138,667 (124%)

Hearts                £111,600 (100%)

Hibs                     £103,376 (93%)

Dundee              £62,833 (56%)

Kilmarnock       £62,816 (56%)

St Johnstone  £48,630 (44%)

Hamilton           £47,879 (43%)

Motherwell       £47,342 (42%)

Livingston        £34,882 (31%)

St Mirren           £41,169 (37%)

 

These figures clearly show we should be finishing at least third place every season. 

 

.

Edited by To Be Frank
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Nookie Bear
6 minutes ago, To Be Frank said:

Celtic                   £865,614 (776%)

Rangers             £466,556 (418%)

Aberdeen           £138,667 (124%)

Hearts                £111,600 (100%)

Hibs                     £103,376 (93%)

Dundee              £62,833 (56%)

Kilmarnock       £62,816 (56%)

St Johnstone  £48,630 (44%)

Hamilton           £47,879 (43%)

Motherwell       £47,342 (42%)

Livingston        £34,882 (31%)

St Mirren           £41,169 (37%)

 

These figures clearly show we should be finishing at least third place every season. 

 

.

 

When are those from?

 

I would imagine the gap between us and hibs should be stretched going forward and we will be at least matching the sheep, if not more. 

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Inch Hearts
13 hours ago, JamboAl said:

 Where did Livi finish in the league?

Did Livi have the serious injuries to key players we've had?

Even if we accept Livi, that's just one club that figures have been produced for.

What was the source/ accounting years from which these figures were taken, if any?

 

That isn’t Al deflecting the actual point with a “prove it with figures” message again is it?  Teams with less of a playing budget have been doing better than us on the park or kicking above the weight their actual playing budget would indicate the level they should be at. 

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Inch Hearts
1 hour ago, To Be Frank said:

Celtic                   £865,614 (776%)

Rangers             £466,556 (418%)

Aberdeen           £138,667 (124%)

Hearts                £111,600 (100%)

Hibs                     £103,376 (93%)

Dundee              £62,833 (56%)

Kilmarnock       £62,816 (56%)

St Johnstone  £48,630 (44%)

Hamilton           £47,879 (43%)

Motherwell       £47,342 (42%)

Livingston        £34,882 (31%)

St Mirren           £41,169 (37%)

 

These figures clearly show we should be finishing at least third place every season. 

 

.

 

They show we shouldn’t be kicking about 6th 3 seasons in a row. 

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Austin MacGlee
7 hours ago, leginten said:

 

This thread isn’t really about finances. You made a point about finances in relation to my post about complacency, so I replied. Finances may be your issue on here, but it’s not mine - unless it’s to lament their squandering.

 

Sending out a team devoid of drive and urgency isn’t a matter of finance. Nor is sending out a team which is, apparently, unable to follow the manager’s own instructions. Nor is sending out a team which throws in the towel and capitulates 5-0 to a club with a third of our budget. Nor is the failure to halt a run of poor form and dreadful football which has lasted close on seven months.

 

All of the above are issues of one thing only, and it’s what this thread is about. Management.

Great post. Sums it up perfectly.

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Voiceofreasonfortheseason
8 hours ago, leginten said:

 

This thread isn’t really about finances. You made a point about finances in relation to my post about complacency, so I replied. Finances may be your issue on here, but it’s not mine - unless it’s to lament their squandering.

 

Sending out a team devoid of drive and urgency isn’t a matter of finance. Nor is sending out a team which is, apparently, unable to follow the manager’s own instructions. Nor is sending out a team which throws in the towel and capitulates 5-0 to a club with a third of our budget. Nor is the failure to halt a run of poor form and dreadful football which has lasted close on seven months.

 

All of the above are issues of one thing only, and it’s what this thread is about. Management.

Best post in a long time on here.

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3 hours ago, Inch Hearts said:

 

That isn’t Al deflecting the actual point with a “prove it with figures” message again is it?  Teams with less of a playing budget have been doing better than us on the park or kicking above the weight their actual playing budget would indicate the level they should be at. 

You lot don't need figures to substantiate the guff you post.

If someone makes a claim it should be easy to prove or not worth making.

Do you have difficulty with that?

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Alex Kintner
5 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

When are those from?

 

I would imagine the gap between us and hibs should be stretched going forward and we will be at least matching the sheep, if not more. 

 

Must be this season if Livingston included.

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Nookie Bear
29 minutes ago, To Be Frank said:

 

Must be this season if Livingston included.

 

Oh aye, good point :facepalm:

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Cruyff Turn

The way CL was talking today about building blocks for the future, it doesn’t look like he’ll be going anywhere anytime soon. 

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The Real Maroonblood
1 hour ago, Cruyff Turn said:

The way CL was talking today about building blocks for the future, it doesn’t look like he’ll be going anywhere anytime soon. 

That’s really cheered me up.

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2 hours ago, Cruyff Turn said:

The way CL was talking today about building blocks for the future, it doesn’t look like he’ll be going anywhere anytime soon. 

 

Certainly sounds that way. He had better get his finger out then if he thinks he's going to turn the current performances around, or there really will be a revolution. Pitch forks at the ready lads!!

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2 hours ago, Cruyff Turn said:

The way CL was talking today about building blocks for the future, it doesn’t look like he’ll be going anywhere anytime soon. 

 

Been saying that for months and I've heard nothing to suggest he's going anytime soon, rightly so.

 

 

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14 hours ago, Kiwidoug said:

I taken issue with the 7 months although you may just be referring to this season. It's gone on for more than three years now and it's such a kick in the teeth following that terrific  championship season.  I am heart sick of it and it's the polar opposite of what I thought was going to happen.

 

Some of the football side of Hearts has been downright embarrassing.  Massive recruitment in virtually every transfer window.  Not a glimmer that a strong united squad is being developed which will entertain and compete for trophies.

 

Wer'e in the Cup final thanks to a dream fun of fixtures which was long overdue. I think Craig Levein has tried his hardest but he has fallen well short and should leave on 26th May.

 

Not a glimmer of competing for trophies? Take it nothing’s in your calendar for May 25 then?

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Hampden Demolition
21 minutes ago, Artful Dodger said:

 

Been saying that for months and I've heard nothing to suggest he's going anytime soon, rightly so.

 

 

 

He’s not exactly going to come out and say that he’s getting sacked at the end of the season though is he? The decision is likely to be taken out of his hands if we lose on Sunday and do not win the cup.

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2 hours ago, Cruyff Turn said:

The way CL was talking today about building blocks for the future, it doesn’t look like he’ll be going anywhere anytime soon. 

Fantastic news

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