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Are Hearts at the back of the queue in player scouting


Bauldrick

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I wonder when I watch teams like Motherwell or Kilmarnock where Hearts talent spotters are when these so-called lesser teams snap up gems under the noses of the big two, perhaps instead of searching youtube or whatever it is that they do should Hearts be trying to prise these ace talent spotters to work for Hearts. 

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As long as height / build / parents & siblings size are taken into account then we are going to immediately dismiss a high percentage of young players with potential . 

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So we've changed our recruitment policy in the last 12 months, does that mean that we can look forward to a surge of outstanding talent clamouring for places in our 1st team squad in the next couple of seasons and less attention paid to transfer windows hoping to pick up diamonds in the rough that no other club really wants.

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Definitely although it appears our recruitment policy has changed over the last few months. I think we have started to use the scouting and analysing tool WyScout and have also recently recruited a scout to study America whilst also arranging affiliate type clubs in the same country. 

There are numerous players from the likes of Killie, St Johnstone and Motherwell etc that I’d take at the club. Hopefully the days of us gambling on foreign players are over but I don’t think anyone outside the club fully knows our scouting and recruitment policy. Player turn over has been ridiculous and is likely to occur again this summer as there are quite a few players in my opinion who are not good enough. 

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Hmmm...let’s not forget that the majority of Kilmarnock and Motherwell signings are pish to average at best....only a very small handful grab the headlines, and then everyone rightly talks about them...that applies to every club in Scotland...

 

Take Uche for example...supporters across all teams are discussing how they ‘missed’ him.

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I personally like quite a few others could pick players that would suit our system and are somewhat realistic. Obviously their desire to join us depends more on the financial side of things so without knowing the correct or rough figures that we can spend on transfer fees and wages. 

Convincing the player is 80% of the transfer. That puts the club under a dilemma in thinking we either recuperate a fee or keep an unhappy player which could potentially negatively impact on squad morale, which ultimately means a downfall results wise. 

All the big teams tend to sound out agents and the player before talking to the specific club. Some may call that tapping up but very rarely do you see a club get done for that and most transfers are conducted that way. 

For example, Zander Clark for me would suit the goalkeeper position for us. Solid goalie, good age, Scottish, knows the league and he would be taking a step up and I assume we would be able to pay more than he is currently on. If he wants to join us then it is practically game over for Saints. Then comes the period of transfer requests and constant media reports and questions at press conference. Obviously just an example but that’s how it is. 

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Considering our finances compared with Kilmarnock ,Motherwell and St Johnstone 

we could do better with the recruitment one example is Bachmann at Kilmarnock 

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Perhaps it would be wise to study which clubs in the UK have the highest success record in young players recruitment and request that the member of Hearts staff in charge of recruitment be allowed to visit these clubs and study their methods.

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Bazzas right boot
30 minutes ago, Bauldrick said:

I wonder when I watch teams like Motherwell or Kilmarnock where Hearts talent spotters are when these so-called lesser teams snap up gems under the noses of the big two, perhaps instead of searching youtube or whatever it is that they do should Hearts be trying to prise these ace talent spotters to work for Hearts. 

 

 

Yip, so much so we ate well above teams like Motherwell, above hibs and three points of third. 

 

Back of the queue, Yip. 

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5 minutes ago, Bauldrick said:

Perhaps it would be wise to study which clubs in the UK have the highest success record in young players recruitment and request that the member of Hearts staff in charge of recruitment be allowed to visit these clubs and study their methods.

Best young player recruitment is probably Chelsea as they absolutely dominate the youth leagues (in the main) and lots of their players player for their country at their specific age group. None of them ever get into the first team though due to the clubs philosophy. Instant success is necessary at those clubs and don’t have time to develop and promote youth players. 

Man City will dominate in the next 5/10 years as the ‘City Group’ own clubs in every continent and plan to get all the best youth players in those continents to sign for those specific clubs then when they are ready, will sign for Man City and either sold immediately or loaned out until they are at the required standard to play for them (which is unlikely). Aaron Mooy is a good example, was previously at Melbourne City (City groups team in Australia), joined Man City, didn’t play a minute for them before joining Huddersfield on loan for the season and then signed permanently for 8 million the season after. 

The article below explains what I have been trying to explain about Man City in more detail, very interesting but I suppose it doesn’t really relate to Hearts in the grand scheme of things but we could still learn about their recruitment methods. More comparable teams would be Brentford and Bristol City at the moment who seem to be playing quite a lot of talent. 

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/dec/15/manchester-city-football-group-ferran-soriano

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jamboinglasgow

When Cochrane broke through last season, Rangers fans were complaining that they lost him to us aged 13 and complained about recruitment. We will not be able to sign every hot young talent around, nor have the resources to. So other clubs will have some star young players, doesn't mean that we dont have our own.

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25 minutes ago, Hairdryer said:

Considering our finances compared with Kilmarnock ,Motherwell and St Johnstone 

we could do better with the recruitment one example is Bachmann at Kilmarnock 

Bachmann is on loan from Watford.

 

 

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jamboinglasgow
35 minutes ago, Bauldrick said:

Perhaps it would be wise to study which clubs in the UK have the highest success record in young players recruitment and request that the member of Hearts staff in charge of recruitment be allowed to visit these clubs and study their methods.

 

That can work, but having a ton of money makes a bigger difference. Any player we wish to sign from another club requires a development fee paid to that club. So under the current SPFL rules say we signed a 14 year old from Motherwell who had been at the club since 11 then we would have to pay Motherwell £20,000. Sign five 14 year olds on a similar basis and you are already paying £100k on recruitment.

 

There is a reason why Celtic's recruitment of youth players Scotland is far and away ahead of anyone and its because they have a huge budget. Its why I would hope that if we get a big transfer fee for someone (for example Souttar) that a certain amount goes into the academy for recruitment.

 

Motherwell and Kilmarnock are similar to us in that they are going through large numbers of players in the youth academy, quite a lot wont make it but a few will, which as passive observers to them overvalue the success of their systems. 

Edited by jamboinglasgow
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41 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

When Cochrane broke through last season, Rangers fans were complaining that they lost him to us aged 13 and complained about recruitment. We will not be able to sign every hot young talent around, nor have the resources to. So other clubs will have some star young players, doesn't mean that we dont have our own.

 

31 minutes ago, Wilson said:

Bachmann is on loan from Watford.

 

 

 

Do people who post these questions realise we had to rebuild the academy first then move our resources towards better scouting after that. A lot of academy players are a gamble. How small a percentage of young players make it do you think? Our recruitment was changed and the AGM had a question raised at it about that subject and it was explained. Getting out if where we were with a decimated structure to what is a business was never a 2min job. Can you imagine rebuilding the business you work in having to replace almost the entire company payroll at the same time? Not a criticism of you glasgow more just expanding on your position...

 

In terms of people like Bachmann , if we brought players like that in on loan we’d criticise the fact were being shortsighted. Saw someone earlier ripping into the club for not breaking the bank to outbid Sunderland for McLoughlin and fearing for our future when FoH takes ownership. Hearts fans be crazy.....

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rudi must stay

We are not bad at scouting young players in my opinion, last few years guys like Randall and Dunne (even Mitchell) have been good finds. So can't agree with the original poster on that. Would I like to see more brought in, to be honest yes, if you can tell they're hungry and good enough, which lets face it if you are at a EPL club then you'll be good enough for our pub league

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Thunderstruck
2 hours ago, Bauldrick said:

I wonder when I watch teams like Motherwell or Kilmarnock where Hearts talent spotters are when these so-called lesser teams snap up gems under the noses of the big two, perhaps instead of searching youtube or whatever it is that they do should Hearts be trying to prise these ace talent spotters to work for Hearts. 

 

Strangely enough, a question not asked earlier than his season or, indeed, after the 4-2 beating of Motherwell in the cup. 

 

The signing of Uche, Haring, Lee, Zlamal, Clare, Dikamona and Bozanic were met with approval when things were going well. As were the loans of Naismith, Mitchell and Dunne. 

 

More recently, the re-signing of Souttar and Berra alongside the attempts to tie-up Djoum, Haring and Naismith on new contracts have been seen as good bits of business. 

 

Around all of that, there is a crop of good, young players who may or may not make it. Take Cochrane as an example - he is a great prospect but his undoubted skill needs to be married to strength and speed if he is to prosper in the physicality of the SPL. Seeing how quickly some sections of the ‘support’ get on the backs of players who, in their eyes, underperform, Levein is doing well to keep him away from the first team. 

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The diamonds are the Rudi Skacels and Willie Hamiltons that no one had previously heard of.  Hartley is another.

 

JJ was good at spotting good players at bargain prices.  Wonder if he still has his networks and could do a job for us?

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5 hours ago, Kiwidoug said:

The diamonds are the Rudi Skacels and Willie Hamiltons that no one had previously heard of.  Hartley is another.

 

JJ was good at spotting good players at bargain prices.  Wonder if he still has his networks and could do a job for us?

 

I think people had heard of Hartley.  Unless they were booing someone else when he was introduced to the fans.


The signings of Uche and Haring would seem to fit your criteria. 

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9 hours ago, Meadows said:

As long as height / build / parents & siblings size are taken into account then we are going to immediately dismiss a high percentage of young players with potential . 

Cochrane, McDonald, Hamilton, Irving etc are all giants... 

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There's no doubt other teams manage to snap up some decent talent.

 

But to what end?

 

Which one of them has won something by finding a Greg Stewart or another?

 

Which one of them has posed a challenge to Celtic?

 

 

Our recruitment might not be perfect by any stretch but we have always tried to aim higher than most. We take bigger risks in the search of bigger rewards.

 

Plus Levein has always said we can't sign a 10k a week player but we can create one. That is the only way we can make a challenge at the top. Since creating those players takes years we have to try and recruit accordingly and that will always have a big potential for missing the mark.

 

I like that we are ambitious though. I don't want us to play safe. 

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manaliveits105

Not forgetting that many of these players are fyzicul or niggly and as soon as they put on a maroon jersey  would  receive  completely different decisions /yellows reds and suspensions as they benefit from now . Main for one prime example 

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Having a youth policy based on loans from English clubs is hardly the way forward for Hearts. The short answer to the question is yes, possibly exacerbated by CL's policy of insisting that all our centre forwards have to be carthorse types preferably with the ability to trip over the ball at the last minute.

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7 minutes ago, Prof said:

Having a youth policy based on loans from English clubs is hardly the way forward for Hearts. The short answer to the question is yes, possibly exacerbated by CL's policy of insisting that all our centre forwards have to be carthorse types preferably with the ability to trip over the ball at the last minute.

 

Harsh, but fair.

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12 hours ago, JamboGraham said:

Hmmm...let’s not forget that the majority of Kilmarnock and Motherwell signings are pish to average at best....only a very small handful grab the headlines, and then everyone rightly talks about them...that applies to every club in Scotland...

 

Take Uche for example...supporters across all teams are discussing how they ‘missed’ him.

Far too sensible this post and unsurprisingly passed over without comment.

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The way we play football is rancid. 

Can't keep blaming the players. We've been through far too many of them for that to be the sole issue here. 

 

 

 

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The Treasurer
17 hours ago, JamboGraham said:

Hmmm...let’s not forget that the majority of Kilmarnock and Motherwell signings are pish to average at best....only a very small handful grab the headlines, and then everyone rightly talks about them...that applies to every club in Scotland...

 

Take Uche for example...supporters across all teams are discussing how they ‘missed’ him.

Good post.

Even sellik, with their much bigger budget, have signed more than their share of duds.

 

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18 hours ago, Bauldrick said:

I wonder when I watch teams like Motherwell or Kilmarnock where Hearts talent spotters are when these so-called lesser teams snap up gems under the noses of the big two, perhaps instead of searching youtube or whatever it is that they do should Hearts be trying to prise these ace talent spotters to work for Hearts. 

Nah  we should just stick to youtube ,  internet  an aw that cos that's wot we dae

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7 hours ago, jonnothejambo said:

 

Bachmann is pretty good and is a decent Turner and when he goes into Overdrive he is very quick.

You ain't seen nothing yet

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19 hours ago, Bauldrick said:

I wonder when I watch teams like Motherwell or Kilmarnock where Hearts talent spotters are when these so-called lesser teams snap up gems under the noses of the big two, perhaps instead of searching youtube or whatever it is that they do should Hearts be trying to prise these ace talent spotters to work for Hearts. 

 

:rofl:

 

So much Shite in one post. 

 

10/10 on the JKB slaverometer.

 

 

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I assume that the Artful Dodger in the previous post must be one of or related to one of our less than talented football scouts, if not then I can only assume that he is very easily pleased with some of the dross that has come through the ranks at Tynecastle as for slavering then he is obviously in great danger of drowning in his own excess saliva.

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Bazzas right boot
22 hours ago, Kiwidoug said:

The diamonds are the Rudi Skacels and Willie Hamiltons that no one had previously heard of.  Hartley is another.

 

JJ was good at spotting good players at bargain prices.  Wonder if he still has his networks and could do a job for us?

 

 

Jeffries also spunked money on shite. 

 

 

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15 hours ago, WageThief said:

 

I think people had heard of Hartley.  Unless they were booing someone else when he was introduced to the fans.


The signings of Uche and Haring would seem to fit your criteria. 

Yes but I was thinking more of J J getting players like Cameron, McCann and Weir from smaller clubs at reasonable prices.

 

Uche and Haring haven't played enough yet for me to be convinced of star quality.

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I’m not sure I understand the question. As far as I’m aware the scouts don’t have to wait and take turns to scout players. 

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13 minutes ago, Olly Lee's left boot said:

 

 

Jeffries also spunked money on shite. 

 

 

 

He did, Petric being the worst example, but his overall record was pretty impressive, the good signings far outweighed the duds.

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I think scouting in this country is very lazy. Scouts seem to only be interested in players who have already made a name for themselves or are playing for the top clubs. 

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22 minutes ago, RobNox said:

 

He did, Petric being the worst example, but his overall record was pretty impressive, the good signings far outweighed the duds.

 

Early doors, yes. He used the early days of the Bosman ruling very well. Unfortunately, we are no longer in a position to sign players of the pedigree of Salvatori and Adam from top clubs in Europe. Players like them know they can get more money at smaller clubs in lower leagues these days. Our comparatively shite TV money hampers us greatly in that respect. His Scottish signings were generally really good though. He did sign some utter pish as well tbf, and I think people often forget that. I mean some absolute garbage such as Petric, Simpson, Eskilsson, and the like. He was also going to sign Tony Capaldi instead of Skacel. It’s easy to just remember the Salvatori and Cameron types sometimes.

 

 

 

Edited by Glib and Shameless Crier
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On 17/02/2019 at 14:36, Bauldrick said:

I wonder when I watch teams like Motherwell or Kilmarnock where Hearts talent spotters are when these so-called lesser teams snap up gems under the noses of the big two, perhaps instead of searching youtube or whatever it is that they do should Hearts be trying to prise these ace talent spotters to work for Hearts. 

 

Classic grass is greener stuff. Just from this season, I'd put Uche, Dunne and Haring in the hidden gems category.

 

Last season was slimmer pickings, but McLaughlin made a good impact and Keena looks a good prospect.

Edited by Guest
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15 hours ago, Prof said:

Having a youth policy based on loans from English clubs is hardly the way forward for Hearts. The short answer to the question is yes, possibly exacerbated by CL's policy of insisting that all our centre forwards have to be carthorse types preferably with the ability to trip over the ball at the last minute.

 

A policy suggests most of the forwards signed by CL as manager (twice) and DoF are carthorses. The evidence (the list of actual signings) suggests otherwise.

Edited by Guest
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9 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

A policy suggests most of the forwards signed by CL as manager (twice) and DoF are carthorses. The evidence (the list of actual signings) suggests otherwise.

Current centre forwards -Uche and Vanacek- both are carthorses who would probably be better taking up rugby.

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9 hours ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Classic grass is greener stuff. Just from this season, I'd put Uche, Dunne and Haring in the hidden gems category.

 

Last season was slimmer pickings, but McLaughlin made a good impact and Keena looks a good prospect.

 

Gosh, just realised how much we miss Haring.. Dunne was pretty classy. Shame we couldnt keep him. CL is killing our defence with this 3 at back with Shaughnessy in middle. Berra and Souttar as middle two is much better. Getting the formation right and finding a way to have Sean Clare on the bench is also key!! Good point re Haring and Uche though. 

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1 hour ago, Prof said:

Current centre forwards -Uche and Vanacek- both are carthorses who would probably be better taking up rugby.

 

:rofl:

 

**** me... I mean come on... do we have to risk getting suspended for pointing out shit like this? ?

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2 hours ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said:

 

:rofl:

 

**** me... I mean come on... do we have to risk getting suspended for pointing out shit like this? ?

Can't understand your comment. Are you really saying Uche and Vanacek are decent centre forwards, when both are literally bulls in China shops. Neither would have ever gotten a game under some of our earlier managers. I really cant believe that anyone would think these two are aiding in Hearts progressing. 

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11 minutes ago, Prof said:

Can't understand your comment. Are you really saying Uche and Vanacek are decent centre forwards, when both are literally bulls in China shops. Neither would have ever gotten a game under some of our earlier managers. I really cant believe that anyone would think these two are aiding in Hearts progressing. 

:rofl:

 

Major Tom, Ground Control are shitting themselves. Can you please explain to them that you have slipped in to an alternate reality. ?

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2 hours ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said:

:rofl:

 

Major Tom, Ground Control are shitting themselves. Can you please explain to them that you have slipped in to an alternate reality. ?

Absolute drivel. 

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