Maroon Sailor Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Decided to choose England despite playing 3 senior friendlies for Ireland To me that says he committed himself to Ireland and shouldn't be allowed to change Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeftBack Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 (edited) Totally agree. It does make a mockery of things. I never felt comfortable with elliot, mattaeo or Hutchinson to name but a few although Don's goal v England did soften that! Tbh it's one of the things I hate about international rugby - over the past few years how many Scottish internationals have been born here? (genuine question - it might be a very high figure). You would also assume rice has been given some sort of assurance he will be in England's next squad. Note: I know what I've said is slightly different from changing allegiances but rules for international selection need to be tightened up. I also appreciate other countries have exploited it but that doesn't make it right Edited February 14, 2019 by LeftBack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dunphy Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 The karma involved in this particular scenario is ****ing delicious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homme Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Never heard of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 9 minutes ago, LeftBack said: Totally agree. It does make a mockery of things. I never felt comfortable with elliot, mattaeo or Hutchinson to name but a few although Don's goal v England did soften that! Tbh it's one of the things I hate about international rugby - over the past few years how many Scottish internationals have been born here? (genuine question - it might be a very high figure). You would also assume rice has been given some sort of assurance he will be in England's next squad. Note: I know what I've said is slightly different from changing allegiances but rules for international selection need to be tightened up. I also appreciate other countries have exploited it but that doesn't make it right I met Dom Matteo when he was in the Liverpool team, he said his family was from dumfries or something but when I asked him if he'd ever play for Scotland he laughed. He described himself as a proud English man and said he'd never do it. Just goes to show you eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Findlay Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Bruce Rioch and Don Masson didnt do to badly. Bob Wilson earned a couple of caps too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cauther col Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Andy Goram ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toggie88 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 22 minutes ago, Smithee said: I met Dom Matteo when he was in the Liverpool team, he said his family was from dumfries or something but when I asked him if he'd ever play for Scotland he laughed. He described himself as a proud English man and said he'd never do it. Just goes to show you eh? Dominic Matteo was actually born in Dumfries, family then moved south afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Hearts Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 33 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said: The karma involved in this particular scenario is ****ing delicious. Why Phil? Genuine question, although have to say very unusual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dunphy Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Just now, Roxy Hearts said: Why Phil? Genuine question, although have to say very unusual. Mostly because they have been tapping up Northern Ireland players for years now. So when it happens to them, it’s glorious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maroon Sailor Posted February 14, 2019 Author Share Posted February 14, 2019 This is not a place of birth issue. He's played for a country at senior level. He shouldn't be allowed to play for another country at senior level imo. He made his choice to represent Ireland and he should be made to stick with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bking9 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 37 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said: The karma involved in this particular scenario is ****ing delicious. Took me a minute or two ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 1 minute ago, Maroon Sailor said: This is not a place of birth issue. He's played for a country at senior level. He shouldn't be allowed to play for another country at senior level imo. He made his choice to represent Ireland and he should be made to stick with it. Dont understand how he can change, weird rules . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bking9 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 4 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said: Why Phil? Genuine question, although have to say very unusual. You can’t be serious? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 8 minutes ago, Toggie88 said: Dominic Matteo was actually born in Dumfries, family then moved south afterwards. That'll be it, must have been about 25 years ago now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwaysthereinspirit Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Callum Paterson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maroon Sailor Posted February 14, 2019 Author Share Posted February 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, Harry Potter said: Dont understand how he can change, weird rules . The rule states that they have to be competitive games. He played 3 friendlies for ROI I would stop the grandparents rule as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maroon Sailor Posted February 14, 2019 Author Share Posted February 14, 2019 2 minutes ago, alwaysthereinspirit said: Callum Paterson. When did he represent England at football ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bajthejambo Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 17 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said: When did he represent England at football ? He's English in as much as he was born in London. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhoenixHearts Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said: Mostly because they have been tapping up Northern Ireland players for years now. So when it happens to them, it’s glorious. I reckon it's perfectly normal for players born in Ulster to choose to play for FAI if they don't feel as though they can identify with IFA from a... err... 'philosophical' point of view. End of the day, even those born Northern Ireland can still apply for an Irish passport if they so choose, and many Northeners have extensive and immediate Irish lineage. The identity thing is similar to how Derry City ply their trade in the League of Ireland, I suppose. Of course, a few players that identify as Irish Catholics have stayed and played for Northern Ireland despite IFA's strong unionist ties. Neil Lennon is an obvious one. And our very own Bobby Burns springs to mind too, though he's young and the newer generations probably care less and less about the geolpolitical nonsense the further back in history it passes. But yeah, karma still. For McGeady and McArthy. Although I'm dubious of FAI's dealings with recruiting them, I still largely blame the players themselves for being judases (judii?) Maybe as revenge we can tap up Keena for Scotland?... Edited February 14, 2019 by PhoenixHearts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwaysthereinspirit Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 25 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said: When did he represent England at football ? I thought we were just pointing out players that played for a country not of their birth. Did Masson, Rioch or Bob Wilson represent a country before Scotland? I honestly don't know. I may have misunderstood where this thread started and was going. I actually don't have any thoughts on it other than it must be ok if FIFA allow it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackLadd Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Make nice coin as an England cap, both from the FA and media add ons, plus it ups transfer fees and salaries including agent commission. Not so much playing for Ireland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayman Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Cannonball was a good song but I’ve not paid much attention to his career since Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dunphy Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 11 minutes ago, PhoenixHearts said: I reckon it's perfectly normal for players born in Ulster to choose to play for FAI if they don't feel as though they can identify with IFA from a... err... 'philosophical' point of view. End of the day, even those born Northern Ireland can still apply for an Irish passport if they so choose, and many Northeners have extensive and immediate Irish lineage. The identity thing is similar to how Derry City ply their trade in the League of Ireland, I suppose. Of course, a few players that identify as Irish Catholics have stayed and played for Northern Ireland despite IFA's strong unionist ties. Neil Lennon is an obvious one. And our very own Bobby Burns springs to mind too, though he's young and the newer generations probably care less and less about the geolpolitical nonsense the further back in history it passes. But yeah, karma still. For McGeady and McArthy. Although I'm dubious of FAI's dealings with recruiting them, I still largely blame the players themselves for being judases (judii?) Maybe as revenge we can tap up Keena for Scotland?... Whilst I do understand your first point, they have shown in the past that they have no issues tapping up players that have represented Northern Ireland at every level below the senior squad, like James McClean or Shane Duffy. They should just take their medicine and move on. The very system they utilise has come back to bite them. And I’m gonna enjoy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudi must stay Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Shame but I suppose sensible. That's football, OP has a good point though. Friendlies mean nothing right now (and they should, it's professional football) it may even make them better matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboT Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Martin O Neil had the chance to play him in a competitive game but decided to only play him in the friendlies. ROI using the rules that are in place to get him to play for Ireland, Rice using the friendly rule to change back to England. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boag1874 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 The friendly rule is a bit of a joke. Once you’ve represented a country at senior level you shouldn’t be able to switch regardless of whether its a friendly imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Hearts Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Phil Dunphy said: Mostly because they have been tapping up Northern Ireland players for years now. So when it happens to them, it’s glorious. Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Hearts Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Bking9 said: You can’t be serious? Yes., I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SectionDJambo Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Was it not Alfredo di Stefano who played for 3 countries? Maybe Spain, Argentina and Paraguay? Just seems to be one of those quiz questions I used to hear many years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 1 hour ago, Maroon Sailor said: The rule states that they have to be competitive games. He played 3 friendlies for ROI I would stop the grandparents rule as well Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
millerjames398 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 49 minutes ago, Dayman said: Cannonball was a good song but I’ve not paid much attention to his career since ??????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamhammer Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Decent wee player. I’d have stayed with ROI I reckon but, I think International football should be led by your heart. As a Welshman I’m not arsed either way as long as he doesnt get injured Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 57 minutes ago, Dayman said: Cannonball was a good song but I’ve not paid much attention to his career since Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 2 hours ago, Phil Dunphy said: The karma involved in this particular scenario is ****ing delicious. Oh yes it is. Still shouldn't be allowed though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mre Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 2 hours ago, Homme said: Never heard of him. Very highly rated young midfielder for west ham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milky_26 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 (edited) 45 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said: Was it not Alfredo di Stefano who played for 3 countries? Maybe Spain, Argentina and Paraguay? Just seems to be one of those quiz questions I used to hear many years ago. colombia not paraguay, also dejan stankovic played for three different countries at three different world cups Edited February 14, 2019 by milky_26 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 16 minutes ago, mre said: Very highly rated young midfielder for west ham. Bit of chat possible future West Ham captain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 1 hour ago, TurboT said: Martin O Neil had the chance to play him in a competitive game but decided to only play him in the friendlies. ROI using the rules that are in place to get him to play for Ireland, Rice using the friendly rule to change back to England. That was the mistake. To be fair it's tough to introduce youngsters in the competitive games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toggie88 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 2 hours ago, PhoenixHearts said: I reckon it's perfectly normal for players born in Ulster to choose to play for FAI if they don't feel as though they can identify with IFA from a... err... 'philosophical' point of view. End of the day, even those born Northern Ireland can still apply for an Irish passport if they so choose, and many Northeners have extensive and immediate Irish lineage. The identity thing is similar to how Derry City ply their trade in the League of Ireland, I suppose. Of course, a few players that identify as Irish Catholics have stayed and played for Northern Ireland despite IFA's strong unionist ties. Neil Lennon is an obvious one. And our very own Bobby Burns springs to mind too, though he's young and the newer generations probably care less and less about the geolpolitical nonsense the further back in history it passes. But yeah, karma still. For McGeady and McArthy. Although I'm dubious of FAI's dealings with recruiting them, I still largely blame the players themselves for being judases (judii?) Maybe as revenge we can tap up Keena for Scotland?... This is something I've been wondering a while. Why did Lennon choose to play for Northern Ireland? Was it just the case that he was never picked for ROI? Would've saved a lot of hassle over the years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Toggie88 said: This is something I've been wondering a while. Why did Lennon choose to play for Northern Ireland? Was it just the case that he was never picked for ROI? Would've saved a lot of hassle over the years. Lennon chose to play for N.Ireland before the Anglo Irish Agreement changed the arrangements in Ireland. That allowed people to choose nationality as part of the peace process. Edited February 14, 2019 by Mikey1874 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonraker Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Not original but "First they took our potatoes now they've got our Rice" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toggie88 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said: Lennon chose to play for N.Ireland before the Anglo Irish Agreement changed the arrangements in Ireland. Ah, cheers for that. Something that's always puzzled me. Just checked - it was the Good Friday Agreement. Anglo-Irish Agreement was 9 years before Lennon played for the North. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 5 minutes ago, Toggie88 said: Ah, cheers for that. Something that's always puzzled me. Just checked - it was the Good Friday Agreement. Anglo-Irish Agreement was 9 years before Lennon played for the North. Yeah. Correct. Anglo Irish Agreement set in place the principles. Of course Neil Lennon may well have chosen N.Ireland anyway as many do now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTT Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 4 hours ago, Phil Dunphy said: The karma involved in this particular scenario is ****ing delicious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 A good call if he actually goes onto play for England. If, in the traditions of media hype, he turns out to be wank (see McTominay and Januzaj) then he’ll be left with no international career in no time. My money’s on the latter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jodami Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 28 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: A good call if he actually goes onto play for England. If, in the traditions of media hype, he turns out to be wank (see McTominay and Januzaj) then he’ll be left with no international career in no time. My money’s on the latter Having watched him in a few games I actually think he's the real deal. Defensive midfielders are a valuable commodity and I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up as Fernandinho's successor at Manchester City. As regards playing for England the rules are a farce. He is quite clearly looking at as if it was a transfer deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, Jodami said: Having watched him in a few games I actually think he's the real deal. Defensive midfielders are a valuable commodity and I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up as Fernandinho's successor at Manchester City. As regards playing for England the rules are a farce. He is quite clearly looking at as if it was a transfer deal. Yeah, tbf he does look good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Cockade Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 he's a good player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 3 minutes ago, The White Cockade said: he's a good player A bigger story is the number of good young English players coming through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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