British IS schoolgirl wants to return home

[Phil Dunphy]

1 hour ago, JamboX2 said:

 

It'll be challenged in the courts.

 

Not necessarily for concerns about the girl or her child, but because the legal power to pull away someone's citizenship is dubious at best. It's frankly very alarming to see a Home Secretary just wilfully remove a citizen's status and make them stateless. If her then who else? 

 

Some of the reactions have been foaming at the mouth type nonsense. We used to abide - as a state - by our international duties and obligations. She should've been allowed back. The child given to her family. Then put on trial and locked away. 

 

Leaving her to rot and risking the health and safety of her child (who is innocent here) is inhumane. It's a big recruiting sergeant for these extremists to boot.

 

Javid's drive to be Tory leader is really a slap in the face to due process and good governance. All of his actions if viewed through the leadership become clearer by the day: he's sensationalising the Channel crossings, he's ratcheting up the harsh immigration policies and now stripping people of their citizenship with a stroke of his pen.

 

Very worrying precedent.

 

Frankly, Trump is right, European nations need to agree if they're going to go down the Hague route of trials, do it domestically or just let these dangerous 800 people become stateless threats with little recourse to justice. 

 

For her own safety, she shouldn’t be allowed to come back. Her comments on the Manchester bombings would likely see her at risk of serious harm for those views. 

 

I’d also be surprised if the action was taken without any thoughts on the legality. Can’t see the Home Office taking that stance if they were t able to see it through.  

[Governor Tarkin]

33 minutes ago, Geoff the Mince said:

The family solicitor also has a rather dubious past . 

 

You have a rather dubious past, Geoff.

 

 

 

p.s.

 

Nice to see your wee spell in the JKB clink has come to an end.

[Bridge of Djoum]

22 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

You have a rather dubious past, Geoff.

 

 

 

p.s.

 

Nice to see your wee spell in the JKB clink has come to an end.

Is it, though?

[Governor Tarkin]

7 minutes ago, Bridge of Djoum said:

Is it, though?

 

As long as we don't have to see him in the flesh.

 

Such is his chiselled visage, broad shoulders, beer-barrelled chest, and third leg, none of us would ever feel like real men ever again.  

[Geoff the Mince]

20 minutes ago, Bridge of Djoum said:

Is it, though?

YES !! 

[Bridge of Djoum]

3 minutes ago, Geoff the Mince said:

YES !! 

Ha!

 

 You in solitary confinement? How was it?

[Bridge of Djoum]

14 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

As long as we don't have to see him in the flesh.

 

Such is his chiselled visage, broad shoulders, beer-barrelled chest, and third leg, none of us would ever feel like real men ever again.  

Sounds a dish.

 

I can hear the ladies of JKB swooning at the thought.

[sandyk]

On ‎18‎/‎02‎/‎2019 at 22:42, Dagger Is Back said:

 

It might have been an idea to try and debate the point, no matter how much you disagree with it, instead of just simply unleashing both barrels. 

 

Whether you like it or not, and whether you agree with it or not, I happen to believe that there is a scatter gun objective behind ISIS drive to recruit brides for their fighters.

 

ISIS have been a brutal enemy, but also quite innovative when it comes to furthering their cause, and causing death and destruction.

 

We’ve had gun attacks, knife attacks, bombing of innocents at various ‘neutral’ events, vehicles being driven at bystanders etc all across the world. 

 

The battle will go on. ISIS aren’t finished. They’ll simply evolve and move on to the next phase of their jihad. They will have planned for this eventuality.

 

I refuse to believe that ISIS expended so much effort on recruiting brides for their fighters simply to keep their morale up. I refuse to believe that it was simply to give them another ‘cause’ to fight for.

 

I do believe that it’s entirely possible that part of the ‘commitment’ involved between husband and wife, was that children would be taught about their parents, their history and their ‘cause’

 

That may all be a bit conspirational for you but I do believe that it’s entirely plausible.

 

I’ve done my best to explain my rational so feel free to debate.

 

Please don’t call me a cretin again though.

 

 

I think you are bang on the money with all of this

[Governor Tarkin]

9 minutes ago, Bridge of Djoum said:

Sounds a dish.

 

I can hear the ladies of JKB swooning at the thought.

 

Sliding of their chairs as we speak.

[Bridge of Djoum]

6 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Sliding of their chairs as we speak.

Geoff's work is done...

 

[Geoff the Mince]

26 minutes ago, Bridge of Djoum said:

Geoff's work is done...

 

 

?

[Mikey1874]

Surely she has Islamic State citizenship. 

 

It's certainly what she wanted. 

[tokyowalnut]

I have gone from saying she should stay where she is and let her live the life she wanted to a slightly softer opinion.

 

If she shows regret, emotion and a negative attitude toward ISIS while there, she will likely lose her head. Tough, many may say, but I now believe she should be able to come back, the child adopted and she should go on trial. 

 

I also think questions need to be asked as to how 3 teenagers left the UK without question. 2 are now dead and she is in this situation. Surely alarm bells should've been  ringing at the airport, the 3 of them pulled aside and questioned. I'm sure 1 of them would be cracked. 

[The Future's Maroon]

Let her rot for me, no sympathy at all and never will.

 

She made that choice when she was 15, an intelligent young woman too, she searched the internet about Isis and knew fine well what she was getting into.

 

**** her, hope she has a horrible (short) life ahead of her.

[Mikey1874]

3 hours ago, JamboX2 said:

 

I think back to history at times. The shooting of the leaders of the 1916 Easter Rising swung support to the idea of Irish independence and fuelled the war which erupted soon after the war ended. 

 

The death of someone. Becoming a martyr. Is something far more concerning if it can be attributed to the British state.

 

Britain isn't talking about killing her.

 

Even if she wins an appeal she'll have to find a way herself to get out of Syria. 

[jack D and coke]

She’ll win an appeal and get back here. This is Britain kidding everybody on that they’re tough when we’re as soft as shite. 

Theyll blame human rights or brexit or the EU or something and she’ll be back in amongst the rats in tower hamlets raising her kid as a western hating scumbag. 

Move along now. 

[Mikey1874]

Citizenship removed 150 times since 2010. Says power has existed for a hundred years. 

 

Sajid Javid talking in Parliament just now in short debate /questions on the issue. Unwilling to talk specifically about this case.

 

Public good test. Referred to Lord Carlile as expert on case.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47301623

Edited February 20, 2019 by Mikey1874

[Mikey1874]

Child hasn't had citizenship removed though position is uncertain. 

Edited February 20, 2019 by Mikey1874

[mulleted_jambo]

A few questions/comments on this.

 

1.  It sounds like it is her who orchistrated the three of them going to Syria and organised the flights etc. it almost sounds like she groomed them.  Whats to stop her doing similar recruiting with young people in the Uk when she comes home.  After all she has shown no remorse for what she has done.

2. Why are people suggesting the child lives with the grandparents?  The grandparents that appenrtly support terrorist groups and have raised a daughter who chose to run away and live in a warzone supporting terrorist.  I can't imagine the grandchild  would be any less likely to turn out the same. 

3.   Is she not stuck in the refugee camp untill Syria decide to let her go?  In that case there is nothing that can be done to bring her home.  If and when she gets to a place where she can ask for help(not sure where that is, somoene suggested Northen Afghanistan) to come home surely that is when the UK needs to make a decision. 

 

 

[redjambo]

7 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:

Listening to an International Law expert this morning was interesting. 

 

Under International Law we are not allowed to leave a citizen stateless. This girl may be entitled to a Bangladesh passport but that does mean she has Bangladesh citizenship and, therefore, we cannot revoke her UK passport. (I suppose it’s the same as the other thread on here where people are looking to get Irish passports?)

 

However, the child has (apparently) a Dutch father so he may be entitled to travel to Holland without his mother. He may also, of course, be entitled to a Bangladesh passport if his mother gets one. 

 

His is gut feeling is that we have a responsibility to take her in and make sure she faces the full force of the law. She would probably need to be behind bars for her own safety anyway. But unfortunately it will be difficult to link her directly with crimes to try against her so a strong defence team could diminish her responsibility down to “silly girl” status. 

 

Personally I would rather she had been killed by a drone last year but, as an alternative, better she is in prison here than living in Bangladesh, harbouring hatred for the UK. 

 

Although I want to see the girl in question atone for her crime of being part of ISIS and therefore supporting their crimes, rule of law is extremely important. She doesn't appear to have any other official nationality. We can't start taking nationality away from someone just because they have the potential of being accepted as nationals of another country. It's a politically-motivated precedent that doesn't augur well.

[doctor jambo]

The correct thing to do is revoke her citizenship.

The legal thing to do is we cannot.

The just thing to do is let Assad deal with foreign rebels in his country as he sees fit, then we take back whatever is left of her.

[davemclaren]

2 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

The correct thing to do is revoke her citizenship.

The legal thing to do is we cannot.

The just thing to do is let Assad deal with foreign rebels in his country as he sees fit, then we take back whatever is left of her.

Leaving someone stateless is wrong in many ways but is basically avoiding any responsibilityfor what our nationals get up to. It also works both ways. 

 

I’m sure Assad will, and is, dealing with captured foreign rebels as he sees fit. Few concerns over international law for him. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

This whole thing might be moot anyway because quite clearly, no-one from the UK is going to go to Syria and get her. How will she get home?

[Mikey1874]

7 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

This whole thing might be moot anyway because quite clearly, no-one from the UK is going to go to Syria and get her. How will she get home?

 

1. Pay people smugglers to get her to country with British embassy.

 

2. Wait till Britain restarts diplomatic relations with Syria.

 

3. Hope someone comes to get her. 

 

Might face Syrian justice in meantime however. 

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

The UK should either kill her, or, as mentioned, let Assad do it.

[redjambo]

7 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

The UK should either kill her, or, as mentioned, let Assad do it.

 

Seriously, you're proposing state-sanctioned assassination? Or do you just fancy a  bit of a troll.

[AlphonseCapone]

12 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Seriously, you're proposing state-sanctioned assassination? Or do you just fancy a  bit of a troll.

 

You really think it doesn't happen? 

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

13 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Seriously, you're proposing state-sanctioned assassination? Or do you just fancy a  bit of a troll.

It would be the end of it.

[redjambo]

10 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

You really think it doesn't happen? 

 

9 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

It would be the end of it.

 

I'm sure in occasional cases it does happen, but in general this country doesn't belong to one of the many countries around the word that routinely assassinate citizens of whom they disapprove (or kill them after undue process, it's effectively the same thing). And I think we as a country are better for that. Once you start arguing for the assassination of your own citizens, rule of law is out of the window and the regime becomes oppressive.

 

It's a *really* difficult thing to resist from sinking to the same level as evil-doers, especially when it comes to revenge, but it's what keeps society and the world in general from tearing itself apart.

Edited February 20, 2019 by redjambo

[JimKongUno]

28 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

You really think it doesn't happen? 

 

Of course , thats how Jihadi John met his end . Im sure the other 2 Bethnell green brides  were killed in drone strikes too

[jack D and coke]

41 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Seriously, you're proposing state-sanctioned assassination? Or do you just fancy a  bit of a troll.

I’d like us to do it aye. 

Absolutely no question I’d love a drone strike on her. Accidently take out a few dozen of her pals as well with a slightly wonky strike. 

Great stuff. 

 

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

I’d like us to do it aye. 

Absolutely no question I’d love a drone strike on her. Accidently take out a few dozen of her pals as well with a slightly wonky strike. 

Great stuff.

 

Do you want to take out her son too while you're at it?

[JimKongUno]

7 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Do you want to take out her son too while you're at it?

 

Got to feel for that baby , born in a squalid slum with 2 notorious terrorists for parents and named after some jew massacring jihadi warlord

what a start he's had in life

[jack D and coke]

7 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Do you want to take out her son too while you're at it?

Don’t want an innocents killed anywhere in the world tbh but she said herself she was quite happy to see kids maimed and killed in Manchester. Live by the sword and all that. 

[luckyBatistuta]

Is anyone on here really going to lose any sleep if she was to be taken out?

[redjambo]

Just now, jack D and coke said:

Don’t want an innocents killed anywhere in the world tbh but she said herself she was quite happy to see kids maimed and killed in Manchester. Live by the sword and all that. 

 

Her son hasn't lived by the sword though. No matter how much you wish bloody revenge on the girl herself.

[Jambojay84]

I’ve not seen news since this morning so apologies if I’m not up to date with this. As far as I’m aware she had dual citizenship for Britain and Bangladesh, this meant she wouldn’t be stateless. With regards to the child, as much as I don’t want to see more innocent lives ruined she gave up her British rights as soon as she left the country to join isis 

[jack D and coke]

11 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Her son hasn't lived by the sword though. No matter how much you wish bloody revenge on the girl herself.

I’m a normal human being, with empathy and I wouldn’t want anyone hurt that doesn’t deserve it. 

That little boot and her rat family have been raised to despise us and this country on the other hand and she wouldn’t be fazed or even flinch to see your severed head in a bin. She and her family deserve nothing from this country and if they perish well on her head be it. 

I wont lose sleep if they went missing somewhere. Possibly being brought to Britain but tragically fell overboard while in choppy seas something like that. 

 

[JamboX2]

6 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Britain isn't talking about killing her.

 

Even if she wins an appeal she'll have to find a way herself to get out of Syria. 

 

No I know. I mean martyrdom however she dies or if the child die is a bigger recruiting sergeant than her being alive under lock and key.

 

We go get her. Simple. We've people on the ground. Probably some Mi6 bods and few SAS chaps on covert ops. 

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

I’m a normal human being, with empathy and I wouldn’t want anyone hurt that doesn’t deserve it. 

That little boot and her rat family have been raised to despise us and this country on the other hand and she wouldn’t be fazed or even flinch to see your severed head in a bin. She and her family deserve nothing from this country and if they perish well on her head be it. 

I wont lose sleep if they went missing somewhere. Possibly being brought to Britain but tragically fell overboard while in choppy seas something like that. 

 

 

So your attitude is yes, you would be fine if the son were to be killed (or at least die soon) too.

 

I just wanted to confirm that, Mr Empathy who wouldn’t want anyone hurt that doesn’t deserve it.

 

[AlphonseCapone]

1 hour ago, redjambo said:

 

 

I'm sure in occasional cases it does happen, but in general this country doesn't belong to one of the many countries around the word that routinely assassinate citizens of whom they disapprove (or kill them after undue process, it's effectively the same thing). And I think we as a country are better for that. Once you start arguing for the assassination of your own citizens, rule of law is out of the window and the regime becomes oppressive.

 

It's a *really* difficult thing to resist from sinking to the same level as evil-doers, especially when it comes to revenge, but it's what keeps society and the world in general from tearing itself apart.

 

I think more than we'd guess but definitely not as much as other countries. There's an interesting documentary on Netflix about Mossad, interviews former members. They certainly didn't/don't mess around with the same moral concerns our intelligence services likely do. 

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, JamboX2 said:

 

No I know. I mean martyrdom however she dies or if the child die is a bigger recruiting sergeant than her being alive under lock and key.

 

We go get her. Simple. We've people on the ground. Probably some Mi6 bods and few SAS chaps on covert ops. 

 

I disagree. We don't go and get her unless we've decided that we can glean good security information from her. Too much risk.

 

However, if she still has nationality (which she won't now), and managed somehow to get onto UK soil then I would subsequently prosecute her for belonging to a terrorist organisation (and any other crimes which may emerge). Her choice - if she comes back, she goes on trial (including pre-trial detention due to the nature of the crime).

 

Martyrdom is an issue though. That's how wars like these carry on for so long, and new wars are created. Revenge is powerful stuff.

 

[jack D and coke]

3 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

So your attitude is yes, you would be fine if the son were to be killed (or at least die soon) too.

 

I just wanted to confirm that, Mr Empathy who wouldn’t want anyone hurt that doesn’t deserve it.

 

Trying to paint me as the bad one here

 

I didn’t take on a murdering jihadist as a spouse in a war zone. I didn’t see severed heads in bins and just go and put the kettle on and then ask my husband after his 9-5 shift of beating and possibly beheading people if he’d had a good day murdering before I made his tea. 

I haven’t already had two children die in a shitehole and still seem totally unfazed. 

If that kid dies it’s her fault no matter how it happens. 

 

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

Trying to paint me as the bad one here

 

I didn’t take on a murdering jihadist as a spouse in a war zone. I didn’t see severed heads in bins and just go and put the kettle on and then ask my husband after his 9-5 shift of beating and possibly beheading people if he’d had a good day murdering before I made his tea. 

I haven’t already had two children die in a shitehole and still seem totally unfazed. 

If that kid dies it’s her fault no matter how it happens. 

 

 

You're suggesting that it would be a good thing for a newborn child to die because of the actions of his mother.

 

If you're up for the death of an innocent child then here, this is for you.

 

 

 

[JamboX2]

7 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

I disagree. We don't go and get her unless we've decided that we can glean good security information from her. Too much risk.

 

She's in a refugee camp in Turkish occupied Syria. Not in Castle Greyskull.

 

7 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

However, if she still has nationality (which she won't now), and managed somehow to get onto UK soil then I would subsequently prosecute her for belonging to a terrorist organisation (and any other crimes which may emerge). Her choice - if she comes back, she goes on trial (including pre-trial detention due to the nature of the crime).

 

S.40(2) of the British Nationality Act 1981 states that the Home Secretaty can revoke someone's citizenship if he is satisfied it is conducive to the public good. S.40(3) states this can only happen where it will not make a person stateless. Added to this he or she must have reasonable grounds that the person will become a citizen of another nation (s.40A(4)(c)). 

 

Bangladesh today refused to grant her citizenship.

 

Hard to see how this move wont make her stateless. Therefore it's illegal. So we then still have a British national who we should repatriate. Care for the child. And give her the due process of the law.

 

Its apparent this is a play by Javid to look tough and act a defender of British liberties. As was his demands for warships in the channel. All bollocks.

 

7 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Martyrdom is an issue though. That's how wars like these carry on for so long, and new wars are created. Revenge is powerful stuff.

 

 

If she dies out there because we didn't let her back then it'll be pinned on us. A martyr of the caliphate. Her so called home wouldn't consider forgiveness. She then died. Death to the west etc etc.

 

Its not an easy thing to say. But the only sane option is to let her back. 

[jack D and coke]

Just watched the video of the moment she read out her letter of her citizenship being revoked...

Absolutely 

[davemclaren]

This should be interesting assuming it does go to court. Javid may have done this a tad prematurely. 

[The Future's Maroon]

23 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Just watched the video of the moment she read out her letter of her citizenship being revoked...

Absolutely 

When she used the word unjust....**** her, burn the cow at the stake.

[OBE]

The bint financed her way to a war zone, no mean feat under the alleged strict border controls in the region...She was 15 FFs! Her route to Syria should be investigated and those countries who gave her free passage should be £*cking horsed & horsed again.

[davemclaren]

4 minutes ago, Old Blue Eyes said:

The bint financed her way to a war zone, no mean feat under the alleged strict border controls in the region...She was 15 FFs! Her route to Syria should be investigated and those countries who gave her free passage should be £*cking horsed & horsed again.

Including the UK?