British IS schoolgirl wants to return home

[Malinga the Swinga]

1 minute ago, Mr Brightside said:

Came on to say this. 
She should return to the UK and be supervised/ detained depending on what security agencies establish the risk to be.

No she shouldn't. Leave her to rot where she is. 

[Vansen]

A big if, but if she were somehow to set foot on UK soil again, I'd expect her to be arrested immediately, detained, and charged with whatever the UK government thought was so serious as to strip her of her citizenship. 

Not that I want her to return of course. The first interview she gave in that camp showed her true feelings before lawyers and advisors instructed her to start wearing a baseball cap and re-westernising herself. 

Even if you accept she was radicalised at a young age, radicalisation doesn't excuse future actions; it provides context. That's why, IMO, if she returned to the UK she would be detained for the best part of her life. 

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

2 hours ago, Vansen said:

A big if, but if she were somehow to set foot on UK soil again, I'd expect her to be arrested immediately, detained, and charged with whatever the UK government thought was so serious as to strip her of her citizenship. 

Not that I want her to return of course. The first interview she gave in that camp showed her true feelings before lawyers and advisors instructed her to start wearing a baseball cap and re-westernising herself. 

Even if you accept she was radicalised at a young age, radicalisation doesn't excuse future actions; it provides context. That's why, IMO, if she returned to the UK she would be detained for the best part of her life. 

 

 

Nowadays the Ms Begum who plays the age, groomed & trafficked card, is a completely different person from the Ms Begum who praised the Manchester bomber and wasn't faised with finding severed heads in the bin, the Ms Begum who showed no remorse or regret about running away knowingly to become a jihadi bride for ISIS, of course that was as you rightly point out before the lawyers and campaigners got their hands on her, changed her clothes, done her hair, some make-up and coached her what to say and how to look at the camera's, and of course it's worked, as some people have been fooled by her act.

 

By all means allow her back so that she faces the full weight of the law for her actions, but I would go further and I would hold the lawyers and campaigners personally responsible for her future actions, in other words if she got involved in any terrorist activity, they, the lawyers and campaigners face being an accessory if she goes off the rails.

 

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Has lost her latest appeal.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64731007

 

[JimmyCant]

On 27/11/2022 at 10:19, Vansen said:

A big if, but if she were somehow to set foot on UK soil again, I'd expect her to be arrested immediately, detained, and charged with whatever the UK government thought was so serious as to strip her of her citizenship. 

Not that I want her to return of course. The first interview she gave in that camp showed her true feelings before lawyers and advisors instructed her to start wearing a baseball cap and re-westernising herself. 

Even if you accept she was radicalised at a young age, radicalisation doesn't excuse future actions; it provides context. That's why, IMO, if she returned to the UK she would be detained for the best part of her life. 

 

Well no she wouldn’t be. Any court would be required to 1. Take account of her age at the time she fled 2. The level of cohersion, radicalisation and indoctrination she was subjected to at that age and 3. Establish and prove her direct involvement in any atrocities.

 

At the moment they can probably prove membership of a terrorist organisation by association and that’s about it.

 

Not having her back is a purely political action, not designed to punish her or keep a dangerous person out of the country but purely to discourage others from doing the same as she did. I think they’d have much preferred to take her out with a drone, however distasteful that might have seems publicly but she got away from the group before that could be countenanced.

 

She is a British citizen, born here, and her heritage shouldn’t be a factor in allowing her to come back. Punish her for what can be proved by all means but not taking her back is racially and politically motivated.

Edited February 22, 2023 by JimmyCant

[New Town Loafer]

24 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

Has lost her latest appeal.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64731007

 

A real shame.

[Marvin]

40 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

Has lost her latest appeal.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64731007

 

 

Ah well, never mind eh!

[Jeffros Furios]

19 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Well no she wouldn’t be. Any court would be required to 1. Take account of her age at the time she fled 2. The level of cohersion, radicalisation and indoctrination she was subjected to at that age and 3. Establish and prove her direct involvement in any atrocities.

 

At the moment they can probably prove membership of a terrorist organisation by association and that’s about it.

 

Not having her back is a purely political action, not designed to punish her or keep a dangerous person out of the country but purely to discourage others from doing the same as she did. I think they’d have much preferred to take her out with a drone, however distasteful that might have seems publicly but she got away from the group before that could be countenanced.

 

She is a British citizen, born here, and her heritage shouldn’t be a factor in allowing her to come back. Punish her for what can be proved by all means but not taking her back is racially and politically motivated.

I agree Jimmy.  We have adult murderers , paedos, rapists etc walking the streets after a few years inside but a lassie groomed who was probably beaten and raped is treated worse .

Also we have 100s of men who fought for IS walking the streets of the UK free .

 

A lot of European countries are taking back thier citizens from these camps and the camp itself will close down . 

We can speculate what crimes she's committed but that's all it is speculation  . 

 

 

[Unknown user]

17 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

Well no she wouldn’t be. Any court would be required to 1. Take account of her age at the time she fled 2. The level of cohersion, radicalisation and indoctrination she was subjected to at that age and 3. Establish and prove her direct involvement in any atrocities.

 

At the moment they can probably prove membership of a terrorist organisation by association and that’s about it.

 

Not having her back is a purely political action, not designed to punish her or keep a dangerous person out of the country but purely to discourage others from doing the same as she did. I think they’d have much preferred to take her out with a drone, however distasteful that might have seems publicly but she got away from the group before that could be countenanced.

 

She is a British citizen, born here, and her heritage shouldn’t be a factor in allowing her to come back. Punish her for what can be proved by all means but not taking her back is racially and politically motivated.

 

[neilnunb]

Great news. 👍

[Rousset1]

Such as shame.

 

I was looking forward to having my Uber Eats order delivered by her, then being able to have a discussion about the dubious merits of Islamic fundamentalism and what-not, whilst chatting on my doorstep.

 

Oh, well.

[Mikey1874]

The coming back to Britain only arose when ISIS was defeated. 

[Unknown user]

Just now, Mikey1874 said:

The coming back to Britain only arose when ISIS was defeated. 

That's not really the point though.

 

There are LOADS of bad people in the uk, that's why we have prisons, we're not allowed to just throw them away.

If she's guilty of crimes, we have due process to deal with it. 

 

But this was an underage lassie who'd been groomed, radicalised, got paired off with some big guy she'd never met, got bred, lost bairns, and been in the most horrific of places, seen the most horrific of sights.

 

She didn't have the mental or emotional maturity to make the decisions people demand she pay for now.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

5 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

The coming back to Britain only arose when ISIS was defeated. 

 

Exactly, and has been repeated numerous times, that if ISIS still had a caliphate Shamima Begum would still be just another so-called jihadi bride living her life in paradise.

 

I just wish the public could be made aware of the secret security information they have on her, it has to be pretty damning for that info to only ever be disclosed in a closed court.

[OBE]

The smirk she wore throughout the Shamina Begum story, wonder if it's still etched on her pus today...?

[Jambo-Jimbo]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

That's not really the point though.

 

There are LOADS of bad people in the uk, that's why we have prisons, we're not allowed to just throw them away.

If she's guilty of crimes, we have due process to deal with it. 

 

But this was an underage lassie who'd been groomed, radicalised, got paired off with some big guy she'd never met, got bred, lost bairns, and been in the most horrific of places, seen the most horrific of sights.

 

She didn't have the mental or emotional maturity to make the decisions people demand she pay for now.

 

Unless you know/knew her before she left for Syria, there is no way you can be sure of that.

[JimmyCant]

9 minutes ago, Smithee said:

That's not really the point though.

 

There are LOADS of bad people in the uk, that's why we have prisons, we're not allowed to just throw them away.

If she's guilty of crimes, we have due process to deal with it. 

 

But this was an underage lassie who'd been groomed, radicalised, got paired off with some big guy she'd never met, got bred, lost bairns, and been in the most horrific of places, seen the most horrific of sights.

 

She didn't have the mental or emotional maturity to make the decisions people demand she pay for now.

It’s okay to want her punished. It’s even okay to despise her for what she did. But British citizenship is a right you get when you are born here, no matter who you are or what you did, and excluding someone in these circumstances is just wrong and inhumane when we have a perfectly fair and robust and independent criminal justice system who could deal with her.

 

She is our problem. Just like the dozens of other jihadists who returned to this country after IS was defeated and face the legal consequences if their actions without deportation.

Edited February 22, 2023 by JimmyCant

[Unknown user]

Just now, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Unless you know/knew her before she left for Syria, there is no way you can be sure of that.

Yes I can, she was 15

[Mikey1874]

4 minutes ago, Smithee said:

That's not really the point though.

 

There are LOADS of bad people in the uk, that's why we have prisons, we're not allowed to just throw them away.

If she's guilty of crimes, we have due process to deal with it. 

 

But this was an underage lassie who'd been groomed, radicalised, got paired off with some big guy she'd never met, got bred, lost bairns, and been in the most horrific of places, seen the most horrific of sights.

 

She didn't have the mental or emotional maturity to make the decisions people demand she pay for now.

 

But it shows she chose ISIS. Ultimately that is the point. They have the evidence she supported ISIS as an adult and is therefore classed as a security risk. 

 

You also miss the point that these decisions are and legally must be individual decisions based on the individual circumstances. Its irrelevant that there are more dangerous people who have never left Britain. 

[moogsy]

The same people who are delighted by this decision would be the first to demand any foreign nationals who commit crimes in the UK be deported immediately. It’s the height of hypocrisy. 
 

Why should a country trying to rebuild itself be burdened by a potential security risk that has no link to it whatsoever? Equally it’s ludicrous to expect Bangladesh, a place she’s never set foot in, to grant her citizenship.

 

She’s our problem, we need to deal with her.

[Mikey1874]

Just now, moogsy said:

The same people who are delighted by this decision would be the first to demand any foreign nationals who commit crimes in the UK be deported immediately. It’s the height of hypocrisy. 
 

Why should a country trying to rebuild itself be burdened by a potential security risk that has no link to it whatsoever? Equally it’s ludicrous to expect Bangladesh, a place she’s never set foot in, to grant her citizenship.

 

She’s our problem, we need to deal with her.

 

Britain is dealing with her by refusing entry to the country. 

[escobri]

She should just jump aboard a dinghy, get herself a nice 4star hotel room.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

13 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Yes I can, she was 15

 

Do you have children?

 

I have 2 daughters and I can tell you there was a huge difference in their maturity at 15 years old, one was still a child, the other knew exactly what she wanted to do and join the forces at 16, which she did, they were like chalk & cheese in near enough every aspect, one was way more mature than the other.

 

IMO people get too hung up on her being 15 at the time, the simple fact is one 15 yr old can and often is way way more mature than another 15 yr old, meaning you simply can't class all 15 yr olds as being the same and having the same level of maturity at that age.

By all accounts from people who knew Shamima Begum when she was 15, say she was a very smart clever and mature young woman, a straight A student in her marks & exams, that doesn't sound much like a stupid wee lassie to me, that sounds like someone who knows her own mind and knew what she was doing.

[Nucky Thompson]

She's worth a belt now that she's got the westernised look 

Let her back in

[JudyJudyJudy]

24 minutes ago, escobri said:

She should just jump aboard a dinghy, get herself a nice 4star hotel room.

they are only reserved for men .  maybe she could identify as male and get on one? 

 

Loving how some are stating she was  " immature" at 15 yet are happy to see similar aged young people take puberty blockers etc to " change " their gender.  Cant have it both ways dears.  

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

8 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Do you have children?

 

I have 2 daughters and I can tell you there was a huge difference in their maturity at 15 years old, one was still a child, the other knew exactly what she wanted to do and join the forces at 16, which she did, they were like chalk & cheese in near enough every aspect, one was way more mature than the other.

 

IMO people get too hung up on her being 15 at the time, the simple fact is one 15 yr old can and often is way way more mature than another 15 yr old, meaning you simply can't class all 15 yr olds as being the same and having the same level of maturity at that age.

By all accounts from people who knew Shamima Begum when she was 15, say she was a very smart clever and mature young woman, a straight A student in her marks & exams, that doesn't sound much like a stupid wee lassie to me, that sounds like someone who knows her own mind and knew what she was doing.

very well said. 

[moogsy]

31 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Britain is dealing with her by refusing entry to the country. 

Which is ridiculous given that she has been solely a British citizen all her life. 

[Dawnrazor]

She didn't do bad for a 15 year old getting from London to Syria either.

[Jambo 4 Ever]

On 27/11/2022 at 08:16, Malinga the Swinga said:

No she shouldn't. Leave her to rot where she is. 

This 

[Vansen]

1 hour ago, JimmyCant said:

Well no she wouldn’t be. Any court would be required to 1. Take account of her age at the time she fled 2. The level of cohersion, radicalisation and indoctrination she was subjected to at that age and 3. Establish and prove her direct involvement in any atrocities.

 

At the moment they can probably prove membership of a terrorist organisation by association and that’s about it.

 

Not having her back is a purely political action, not designed to punish her or keep a dangerous person out of the country but purely to discourage others from doing the same as she did. I think they’d have much preferred to take her out with a drone, however distasteful that might have seems publicly but she got away from the group before that could be countenanced.

 

She is a British citizen, born here, and her heritage shouldn’t be a factor in allowing her to come back. Punish her for what can be proved by all means but not taking her back is racially and politically motivated.

Hi Jimmy, I'm mindful of the comments made by the former Home Secretary, responsible for stripping her of her UK citizenship. I don't see it as being racially or politically motivated; in his opinion, she has done some nasty stuff and he doesn't want her back. 

 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/sajid-javid-says-no-one-24987905?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target

 

When asked if he's confident her denials are false, Mr Javid said: "I'm not going to go into details of the case but what I will say is that you certainly haven't seen what I saw."

Richard asked: "So there was worse?"

"You haven't seen what I saw," Mr Javid reiterated.

He later added: "If you did know what I knew, as I say because you are sensible, responsible people, you would have made exactly the same decision, of that I have no doubt."

[Shooter McGavin]

We’ve all made mistakes in our younger years, but deciding to leave the developed country you were born in, to go to a third world country and become the bride of a terrorist is quite the whopper.

 

I see arguments on both sides to be honest. She is our problem, but barely worth all the hassle at this point.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Surprising support for her from 

 

 

 

 

[moogsy]

3 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Surprising support for her from 

 

 

 

 

Refreshing to see a raving right wing lunatic who isn’t being a total hypocrite on this matter. 

[Pasquale for King]

5 minutes ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Surprising support for her from 

 

 

 

 

She was definitely groomed but the rest is correct. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, moogsy said:

Refreshing to see a raving right wing lunatic who isn’t being a total hypocrite on this matter. 

aye 

[JimmyCant]

11 minutes ago, Vansen said:

Hi Jimmy, I'm mindful of the comments made by the former Home Secretary, responsible for stripping her of her UK citizenship. I don't see it as being racially or politically motivated; in his opinion, she has done some nasty stuff and he doesn't want her back. 

 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/sajid-javid-says-no-one-24987905?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target

 

When asked if he's confident her denials are false, Mr Javid said: "I'm not going to go into details of the case but what I will say is that you certainly haven't seen what I saw."

Richard asked: "So there was worse?"

"You haven't seen what I saw," Mr Javid reiterated.

He later added: "If you did know what I knew, as I say because you are sensible, responsible people, you would have made exactly the same decision, of that I have no doubt."

I don’t doubt there is a background to this case and they clearly know more than they are prepared to reveal. All the more reason to get her back here and into a court.
 

That’s not the point though is it. The point is she is a British citizen and she’s been stripped of that without trial or her alleged actions being scrutinised by a criminal court when there are other similar cases which have been prosecuted and the individuals jailed.

 

Im convinced she would have

been a military target when she was over there, like other British citizens were, and her rocking up at a refugee camp was somewhat inconvenient for the government. Doesn’t matter though. Public opinion means they’ll get away with riding roughshod over her rights as a British citizen.

Edited February 22, 2023 by JimmyCant

[Vansen]

6 minutes ago, JimmyCant said:

I don’t doubt there is a background to this case and they clearly know more than they are prepared to reveal. All the more reason to get her back here and into a court.
 

That’s not the point though is it. The point is she is a British citizen and she’s been stripped of that without trial or her alleged actions being scrutinised by a criminal court when there are other similar cases which have been prosecuted and the individuals jailed.

 

Im convinced she would have

been a military target when she was over there, like other British citizens were, and her rocking up at a refugee camp was somewhat inconvenient for the government. Doesn’t matter though. Public opinion means they’ll get away with riding roughshod over her rights as a British citizen.

That's fair enough, it's a divisive issue. I'd rather she didn't come back myself although I'm surprised that someone hasn't enabled a way back to the UK for her to force the UK government's hand anyway. 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

[il Duce McTarkin]

41 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

She was definitely groomed but the rest is correct. 

 

[Irufushi]

9 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Triffic news 👍

[I P Knightley]

1 hour ago, JudyJudyJudy said:

Surprising support for her from 

 

 

 

 

"She's a traitor who should be flung in jail"?

 

Your definition of "support" and mine differ slightly. Unless, of course, you're pointing out that, relative to the norm from Hate-Spewer, this is supportive as she's not advocating for a summary beheading.

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, I P Knightley said:

"She's a traitor who should be flung in jail"?

 

Your definition of "support" and mine differ slightly. Unless, of course, you're pointing out that, relative to the norm from Hate-Spewer, this is supportive as she's not advocating for a summary beheading.

 

 

I know when i post JHB it gets the hackles up.  She supports her right to come back to the UK. I dont. I think she should stay where she is. havent the slightest interest in her. 

[I P Knightley]

2 hours ago, JimmyCant said:

It’s okay to want her punished. It’s even okay to despise her for what she did. But British citizenship is a right you get when you are born here, no matter who you are or what you did, and excluding someone in these circumstances is just wrong and inhumane when we have a perfectly fair and robust and independent criminal justice system who could deal with her.

 

Is that actual fact? I get that being born and schooled in the UK would suggest British citizenship but, surely for some, being born on UK soil could just be a coincidence such as a premature birth while parents are here for a weekend holiday.

 

I only ask as I've got a colleague who's as cockney as they come but identifies as Irish, drinking Guinness, wearing a claddagh ring and going to the Gaelic football. When I've teased him about being English, he goes off on one saying something like, "a dog can have a pup in a stable but that doesn't make it a horse." He even pronounces 'horse' as 'harse', like a real Irishman would do if he was putting on a cockney accent. I'd love to see something in writing from the UK government that tells him he's a Brit

 

 

1 hour ago, Vansen said:

Hi Jimmy, I'm mindful of the comments made by the former Home Secretary, responsible for stripping her of her UK citizenship. I don't see it as being racially or politically motivated; in his opinion, she has done some nasty stuff and he doesn't want her back. 

 

https://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/sajid-javid-says-no-one-24987905?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target

 

When asked if he's confident her denials are false, Mr Javid said: "I'm not going to go into details of the case but what I will say is that you certainly haven't seen what I saw."

Richard asked: "So there was worse?"

"You haven't seen what I saw," Mr Javid reiterated.

He later added: "If you did know what I knew, as I say because you are sensible, responsible people, you would have made exactly the same decision, of that I have no doubt."

Oh, that's mean, Vansen.

 

Now you're making me choose between Begum and Javid. It's like asking me whether I want Celtic or Rangers to win.

[Vansen]

1 hour ago, I P Knightley said:

 

Is that actual fact? I get that being born and schooled in the UK would suggest British citizenship but, surely for some, being born on UK soil could just be a coincidence such as a premature birth while parents are here for a weekend holiday.

 

I only ask as I've got a colleague who's as cockney as they come but identifies as Irish, drinking Guinness, wearing a claddagh ring and going to the Gaelic football. When I've teased him about being English, he goes off on one saying something like, "a dog can have a pup in a stable but that doesn't make it a horse." He even pronounces 'horse' as 'harse', like a real Irishman would do if he was putting on a cockney accent. I'd love to see something in writing from the UK government that tells him he's a Brit

 

 

Oh, that's mean, Vansen.

 

Now you're making me choose between Begum and Javid. It's like asking me whether I want Celtic or Rangers to win.

😁 rock and hard place!