Safe Standing at Tynecastle.

[Sarah O]

5 hours ago, ericb said:

Nope, I've read that back four times and don't understand. How can someones view be blocked by someone standing behind them?

It's sections to their right hand side. Their level and below.

[Phil Dunphy]

3 minutes ago, Sarah O said:

I'm talking about the lower sections

 

I was in Lower P last season and my view was never restricted once by the people standing in N.

[Sarah O]

Just now, Phil Dunphy said:

 

I was in Lower P last season and my view was never restricted once by the people standing in N.

In that case, standing in N should be where it is.

 

I wouldn't know as I sit higher up. 

[Phil Dunphy]

1 minute ago, Sarah O said:

In that case, standing in N should be where it is.

 

I wouldn't know as I sit higher up. 

 

Seems the most logical place to test anything like it. People stand there anyway, might as well try and make it safer.

[Sarah O]

7 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

Seems the most logical place to test anything like it. People stand there anyway, might as well try and make it safer.

Makes a lot more sense than the whole or even partial Gorgie. 

 

We aren't Dortmund.

[boag1874]

Nobodys going to be sitting in a safe standing section ffs. Theres about 15,000 other seats to choose from if you don't want to stand. Really hope the club bring this in initially as maybe just lower G/N but with an aim to redo the full Gorgie stand if it works out. Very surprising that nobody outside of Celtic has brought it in yet as many fans at every ground stand up the whole game anyway but this way seats are less likely to be damaged/people are less likely to fall.

[XB52]

1 hour ago, Sarah O said:

I'm talking about the lower sections

you replied to a post saying they should try safe standing in upper N so the replies to your post were based on that.

[Sarah O]

31 minutes ago, XB52 said:

you replied to a post saying they should try safe standing in upper N so the replies to your post were based on that.

Ah ok, I meant lower. Can't really remember.

[davemclaren]

2 hours ago, boag1874 said:

Nobodys going to be sitting in a safe standing section ffs. Theres about 15,000 other seats to choose from if you don't want to stand. Really hope the club bring this in initially as maybe just lower G/N but with an aim to redo the full Gorgie stand if it works out. Very surprising that nobody outside of Celtic has brought it in yet as many fans at every ground stand up the whole game anyway but this way seats are less likely to be damaged/people are less likely to fall.

Apart from in Euro ties. 

[Pans Jambo]

So if Hearts make the entire lower sections of all 4 stands safe standing then everyone in the upper sections can sit down with no restriction on views. Simple really. 

 

[His name is]

Has there been anything from hearts as to exactly what was happening? 

[fila]

Hope this happens at some stage , all seating stadiums was a terrrible decsion to introduce

[ri Alban]

12 hours ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

Seems the most logical place to test anything like it. People stand there anyway, might as well try and make it safer.

The back rows of Q were the safe standing last season.

 

Miss it

Edited February 15, 2019 by ri Alban

[fabienleclerq]

Am I being daft here, surely having upper sections as standing is a better idea as it would block anyone's view?

[Sarah O]

10 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

So if Hearts make the entire lower sections of all 4 stands safe standing then everyone in the upper sections can sit down with no restriction on views. Simple really. 

 

We'd never sell all those sections to standers. I think the desire for standing is considerably smaller than people think 

[FarmerTweedy]

12 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

So if Hearts make the entire lower sections of all 4 stands safe standing then everyone in the upper sections can sit down with no restriction on views. Simple really. 

 

Except for the fact that people standing in the lower sections blocks the view of part of the pitch for people sitting in the upper sections, and particularly of disabled supporters at the concourse level. So not simple, really!

[FarmerTweedy]

1 hour ago, Sarah O said:

We'd never sell all those sections to standers. I think the desire for standing is considerably smaller than people think 

It would also mean that people wishing to sit would have to pay gold or platinum prices, as the bronze and silver seats are in the lower sections. 

[Ray Gin]

20 minutes ago, FarmerTweedy said:

Except for the fact that people standing in the lower sections blocks the view of part of the pitch for people sitting in the upper sections, and particularly of disabled supporters at the concourse level. So not simple, really!

 

Correct. If they do it, it would need to be one entire section, upper and lower. It would also probably be in the Gorgie to keep them as far away from the away fans as possible.

 

Edited February 15, 2019 by Ray Gin

[Toggie88]

12 hours ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Correct. If they do it, it would need to be one entire section, upper and lower. It would also probably be in the Gorgie to keep them as far away from the away fans as possible.

 

 

I say be ambitious and make it the entire Wheatfield - turn it into a real bear bit. Opposition players will hate playing down that wing. 

[JCR]

9 hours ago, Toggie88 said:

 

I say be ambitious and make it the entire Wheatfield - turn it into a real bear bit. Opposition players will hate playing down that wing. 

You do know B, C and D upper are full of elderly and disabled people who aren’t going to want to stand? 

[kingantti1874]

Never fails to amaze me how negative people are on this subject. Plenty of room to keep everyone happy. 

[davemclaren]

1 hour ago, JCR said:

You do know B, C and D upper are full of elderly and disabled people who aren’t going to want to stand? 

Some of us are just elderly or disabled. 

[Toggie88]

1 hour ago, JCR said:

You do know B, C and D upper are full of elderly and disabled people who aren’t going to want to stand? 

 

I was being jovial on a Friday night, should have included a smiley to show I wasn't entirely serious. 

 

That being said, if we ever got to the point that there was 6,000 wanting to stand at the match, then making one stand entirely standing removes the sightline issues previously highlighted on this thread .

[davemclaren]

3 minutes ago, Toggie88 said:

 

I was being jovial on a Friday night, should have included a smiley to show I wasn't entirely serious. 

 

That being said, if we ever got to the point that there was 6,000 wanting to stand at the match, then making one stand entirely standing removes the sightline issues previously highlighted on this thread .

Do you really think there is a demand for standing on that scale?

[Toggie88]

Just now, davemclaren said:

Do you really think there is a demand for standing on that scale?

 

I don't think we really know what demand is/would be but no, I wouldn't imagine it to be so high at this point. I'm not sure what things will look like in 10 years though. 

 

All I was saying is that if we introduced safe standing and there was a big demand, making one stand all standing would probably cause less issues (sightlines etc) than making just parts of one stand, safe standing. 

 

 

[davemclaren]

6 minutes ago, Toggie88 said:

 

I don't think we really know what demand is/would be but no, I wouldn't imagine it to be so high at this point. I'm not sure what things will look like in 10 years though. 

 

All I was saying is that if we introduced safe standing and there was a big demand, making one stand all standing would probably cause less issues (sightlines etc) than making just parts of one stand, safe standing. 

 

 

I agree with that. We might get to a time when a standing space may cost more than a sitting place, to cover the implementation cost. 

[Toggie88]

27 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

I agree with that. We might get to a time when a standing space may cost more than a sitting place, to cover the implementation cost. 

 

Yeah - also if demand is higher, then you could justifiably charge more. 

 

I agree with you, but it could also go full circle. If safe standing continues to be successful without any incidents, then we could get to the stage where you could have more standing spaces than seats. Simultaneously, standing areas eventually might have less maintenance and it could end up being cheaper. It's all just conjecture though, we're in relatively early days of standing returning to Scottish football - there could be a serious incident at Parkhead one week and that could kill it off for a generation.

 

One of the things that does put me off by 'safe' standing in its current form, is the special seats that you need. As others have said, when you are forced to watch the game seated, the bars look like they would block your view. Would it not be easier and more cost efficient to keep the current style of seating, you then just have bars attached to the seats in front which can be raised and lowered dependent on the match? The club would raise or lower them beforehand and lock them in place for the duration of the match. That way, it would allow the number of standing sections to change with demand and doesn't require the replacement of current seating. 

Edited February 16, 2019 by Toggie88

[davemclaren]

3 minutes ago, Toggie88 said:

 

Yeah - also if demand is higher, then you could justifiably charge more. 

 

I agree with you, but it could also go full circle. If safe standing continues to be successful without any incidents, then we could get to the stage where you could have more standing spaces than seats. Simultaneously, standing areas eventually might have less maintenance and it could end up being cheaper. It's all just conjecture though, we're in relatively early days of standing return to Scottish football - there could be a serious incident at Parkhead one week and that could kill it off for a generation.

 

One of the things that does put me off by 'safe' standing in its current form, is the special seats that you need. As others have said, when you are forced to watch the game seated, the bars look like they would block your view. Would it not be easier and more cost efficient to keep the current style of seating, you then just have bars attached to the seats in front which can be raised and lowered dependent on the match? The club would raise or lower them beforehand and lock them in place for the duration of the match. That way, it would allow the number of standing sections to change with demand and doesn't require the replacement of current seating. 

No idea. Again it would all come down to safety considerations and cost. 

[Famous 1874]

Demand for standing would be huge.

[portobellojambo1]

I'm not sure if I'm imagining where I think the photos above were taken, but it does appear to be the very end of the Wheatfield, the thin band of seats at the end of Section G. Does that not mean that the effective standing area will run from front to back of the stand but only be an area that is three persons wide per row, and if so would that meet the demand of the numbers looking to stand. I would also imagine that if it were then extended to other parts of the stadium it could end up being at the extreme ends of the other three stands, unless one whole section, or a couple, is/are used for those looking to stand at domestic games

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, portobellojambo1 said:

I'm not sure if I'm imagining where I think the photos above were taken, but it does appear to be the very end of the Wheatfield, the thin band of seats at the end of Section G. Does that not mean that the effective standing area will run from front to back of the stand but only be an area that is three persons wide per row, and if so would that meet the demand of the numbers looking to stand. I would also imagine that if it were then extended to other parts of the stadium it could end up being at the extreme ends of the other three stands, unless one whole section, or a couple, is/are used for those looking to stand at domestic games

 

There's nothing saying that's where they'll end up, maybe it was just a convenient place to put a small sample

[RobboM]

I'd love to see standing back and, taking into account all the comments and issues raised, it surely makes sense to only introduce it gradually. Maybe one lower corner section? That gives you time and opportunity to see if there is sufficient demand, whether it blocks views for sitting/disabled sections and whether it creates any other unanticipated issues, before rolling out it any further.

[Sarah O]

2 hours ago, Famous 1874 said:

Demand for standing would be huge.

What are you basing this on?

[JCR]

7 hours ago, davemclaren said:

Some of us are just elderly or disabled. 

 

I have to take a walking stick to the away end at Hibs as I may have difficulties standing the whole game. I do enjoy waving ma stick at Hibs though. 

 

I would be in favour of safe standing at Scotland games though as there are always rows there when half the people want to stand and half don’t. 

[davemclaren]

12 minutes ago, JCR said:

 

I have to take a walking stick to the away end at Hibs as I may have difficulties standing the whole game. I do enjoy waving ma stick at Hibs though. 

 

I would be in favour of safe standing at Scotland games though as there are always rows there when half the people want to stand and half don’t. 

I agree it is a problem but getting eufa and fifa to accept a change will be really hard. 

[ramrod]

People thinking the standing sections will be in lower G  and N are wide of the mark imo . 

I would think it wiould be located in the lower Gorgie . Can't see them having standing right next to the away fans . With sect N especially being  seen as a problem area by Ann I would think the idea would be to locate most of the Sec N patrons that like to stand to the lower Gorgie , just a hunch . 

[jamtartan74]

1 hour ago, ramrod said:

People thinking the standing sections will be in lower G  and N are wide of the mark imo . 

I would think it wiould be located in the lower Gorgie . Can't see them having standing right next to the away fans . With sect N especially being  seen as a problem area by Ann I would think the idea would be to locate most of the Sec N patrons that like to stand to the lower Gorgie , just a hunch . 

Do u really think the section N patrons will relocate to the Gorgie Just because it’s deemed a safe standing section? I certainly dont, they will stay exactly where they are and stand regardless of safe standing section or not. There is an appetite for a safe standing area but imo it isn’t thousands who want this, it’s probably in the small hundreds and it’s the people in G and N who already stand. If this was to happen and it’s a big if, then it would be silly to have it anywhere other than they sections as that’s where the standers already are and I doubt if they would move. We shall see though. 

[Jamboelite]

9 hours ago, Famous 1874 said:

Demand for standing would be huge.

No i dont believe it would be not in the beginning anyway.

[Famous 1874]

6 hours ago, Sarah O said:

What are you basing this on?

Loads of people stand already and I assume we’ll just move to the standing areas

[alanthejambo]

1 hour ago, jamtartan74 said:

Do u really think the section N patrons will relocate to the Gorgie Just because it’s deemed a safe standing section? I certainly dont, they will stay exactly where they are and stand regardless of safe standing section or not. There is an appetite for a safe standing area but imo it isn’t thousands who want this, it’s probably in the small hundreds and it’s the people in G and N who already stand. If this was to happen and it’s a big if, then it would be silly to have it anywhere other than they sections as that’s where the standers already are and I doubt if they would move. We shall see though. 

There is a lot of truth in this. People particularly in N, stand there because they want to stand there. Being there is more important than standing imo 

[Sarah O]

1 hour ago, Famous 1874 said:

Loads of people stand already and I assume we’ll just move to the standing areas

100 - 200 tops

[TNCASTLE]

On 14/02/2019 at 00:54, Walter Bishop said:

Exactly. 

Pie at half time only..

[Famous 1874]

16 minutes ago, Sarah O said:

100 - 200 tops

You seem anti this. Why?

[Uche Gang]

22 minutes ago, Sarah O said:

100 - 200 tops

 

Lower N holds 200, the whole of Lower N stands and some of Lower G, the back rows of N and G stand. You only have to look at away games to see the demand for standing. Providing the safe standing is in the correct place the demand will be there, I don’t think Gorgie stand would be the correct place.

[davemclaren]

27 minutes ago, Uche Gang said:

 

Lower N holds 200, the whole of Lower N stands and some of Lower G, the back rows of N and G stand. You only have to look at away games to see the demand for standing. Providing the safe standing is in the correct place the demand will be there, I don’t think Gorgie stand would be the correct place.

You might find that a good few at away games only stand because they have to if they want to see the game. 

[ramrod]

14 hours ago, jamtartan74 said:

Do u really think the section N patrons will relocate to the Gorgie Just because it’s deemed a safe standing section? I certainly dont, they will stay exactly where they are and stand regardless of safe standing section or not. There is an appetite for a safe standing area but imo it isn’t thousands who want this, it’s probably in the small hundreds and it’s the people in G and N who already stand. If this was to happen and it’s a big if, then it would be silly to have it anywhere other than they sections as that’s where the standers already are and I doubt if they would move. We shall see though. 

Ann won't allow safe standing right next to the away fans , you can take that to the bank . It will be behind the goals or not at all . 

[Sarah O]

11 hours ago, Famous 1874 said:

You seem anti this. Why?

Not at all. I am neither for nor against. 

 

Although I wouldn't want to personally be in a standing section, I can see there is certainly a demand for it. The size of that demand is to be determined, I don't think it's as many as some people would have you believe. 

 

Although a full Gorgie standing is never going to happen, the fear for me remains the same scaled down... We remove too many normal seats and replace them with safe standing sections and when the novelty wears off we struggle to sell the spaces. It would discourage some people from attending if perhaps only standing tickets remained for sale. 

 

I'd also be cheesed off if standing was to interfere with sightlines for other fans paying money to watch the game. 

 

However, if people think that it can generate the much fabled ATMUSFEEEER what harm is there giving it a chance? 

[Sarah O]

26 minutes ago, ramrod said:

Ann won't allow safe standing right next to the away fans , you can take that to the bank . It will be behind the goals or not at all . 

Quite right. 

[Famous 1874]

46 minutes ago, Sarah O said:

Not at all. I am neither for nor against. 

 

Although I wouldn't want to personally be in a standing section, I can see there is certainly a demand for it. The size of that demand is to be determined, I don't think it's as many as some people would have you believe. 

 

Although a full Gorgie standing is never going to happen, the fear for me remains the same scaled down... We remove too many normal seats and replace them with safe standing sections and when the novelty wears off we struggle to sell the spaces. It would discourage some people from attending if perhaps only standing tickets remained for sale. 

 

I'd also be cheesed off if standing was to interfere with sightlines for other fans paying money to watch the game. 

 

However, if people think that it can generate the much fabled ATMUSFEEEER what harm is there giving it a chance? 

Do you feel the atmosphere is good at Tynecastle bar the big games?

[kingdannyb]

I was at a Union Berlin game in December.

Stadium sold out.

Capacity 22,000

Seats 3,000

Standing 19,000

Scottish football has a lot to learn.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadion_An_der_Alten_Försterei

Edited February 17, 2019 by kingdannyb