Jump to content

Should Scotland become an independent country?


Toggie88

Should Scotland become an independent country?   

277 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Scotland become an independent country?

    • Yes
      185
    • No
      92


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 179
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • Toggie88

    21

  • Roxy Hearts

    18

  • XB52

    15

  • Thunderstruck

    11

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

Geoff the Mince

YES !  The parties at Westminster are a disgrace and won't be getting any better . And I don't believe we could do any worse . Absolute shambles .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That map of the World above is absolutely ridiculously mislesding. I hope most people understand that there is a World of a difference between being a colony and being in a Union. All of the countries labelled above were colonies apart from Southern Ireland which was in Union.

 

I don’t think anyone in their righ would like to be a colony. But being in Union is a totally different question.

 

And ironically when  the U.K. had its empire of all of those countries, you will find that Scots played a disproportionately large part in it, and Scotland did very well out of it financially. I am certainly not saying it was right to colonise all those countries but those are the facts.

Edited by SwindonJambo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

No, would be a disaster although drunken millenials would get to wave tartan for a week or two. Once they sober up however... 

Cant believe we are still covering  auld ground here, we voted No, deal with it, 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Harry Potter said:

Cant believe we are still covering  auld ground here, we voted No, deal with it, 

 

Scotland voted no when it was thought we would still be in the EU that was the big licks coming from the remain camp. Only way to stay in the EU is to remain In the UK. Well that worked out well didn't it. 

 

Question needs to be asked again. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

 

Scotland voted no when it was thought we would still be in the EU that was the big licks coming from the remain camp. Only way to stay in the EU is to remain In the UK. Well that worked out well didn't it. 

 

Question needs to be asked again. 

 

Wonder what the cost would be now for a 2nd vote, was it not about 18 million the last time, monies now we cant afford.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Australis...... said:

No, but we would be the best flag wavers in the world. Since the Germans did it in the 1930s, anyway.

 

Horst Sturgeon Lied, great wee goose stepper.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Famous 1874 said:

Would be another No vote. Country is even more of a shambles than before the last referendum.

Perhaps but the demographic will have changed in the last 5 years even if no one has changed their opinion. 

 

This below article applies to Brexit,  it would be interesting to know how Scottish Independence votes are impacted by the same.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-leave-eu-remain-vote-support-against-poll-uk-europe-final-say-yougov-second-referendum-peter-a8541971.html

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I want Scotland to be independent, The way Westminster is now all it would take is the SNP to do a better job running the country and that would tip the balance. Endless talk of independence is tiring though and I would rather they shut up about it until they can say were definitely having another vote.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

43 minutes ago, Australis...... said:

No, but we would be the best flag wavers in the world. Since the Germans did it in the 1930s, anyway.

See more of those stinking uj's everywhere, especially in shops. The establishment really are scared as the propaganda both subtle and obvious is really on the march. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Herbert said:

I want Scotland to be independent, The way Westminster is now all it would take is the SNP to do a better job running the country and that would tip the balance. Endless talk of independence is tiring though and I would rather they shut up about it until they can say were definitely having another vote.

I agree. It is a distraction, however the only people that are actually talking about it endlessly, is those who are against it. Every piece of Tory/Labour/LibDem propaganda is about 'Nicola Sturgeon and the big bad SNP' being obsessed with independence, meanwhile the SNP Government have said more about Brexit in the last week than they have independence since the 2014. 

 

Willie Rennie, leader of the LibDems, accused Nicola Sturgeon of 'focusing on overturning the 2014 referendum rather than winning a second Brexit referendum'... ignoring the obvious hypocrisy in that statement regarding referendums, Nicola Sturgeon has been on every tv channel this week pushing a second EU referendum and went to Westminster to make the case there. Every single interview she gets asked about independence, every single time she says that she is focused on the issue of the moment (Brexit/NHS/Education) and will announce a potential referendum in due course. 

 

She isn't the one endlessly talking about independence - it's those opposed to independence that do. I do agree that this endless is bad for the country, the sooner we vote for independence and can focus on building a Scotland that work's for the people that live here, the better. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Toggie88 said:

I agree. It is a distraction, however the only people that are actually talking about it endlessly, is those who are against it. Every piece of Tory/Labour/LibDem propaganda is about 'Nicola Sturgeon and the big bad SNP' being obsessed with independence, meanwhile the SNP Government have said more about Brexit in the last week than they have independence since the 2014. 

 

Willie Rennie, leader of the LibDems, accused Nicola Sturgeon of 'focusing on overturning the 2014 referendum rather than winning a second Brexit referendum'... ignoring the obvious hypocrisy in that statement regarding referendums, Nicola Sturgeon has been on every tv channel this week pushing a second EU referendum and went to Westminster to make the case there. Every single interview she gets asked about independence, every single time she says that she is focused on the issue of the moment (Brexit/NHS/Education) and will announce a potential referendum in due course. 

 

She isn't the one endlessly talking about independence - it's those opposed to independence that do. I do agree that this endless is bad for the country, the sooner we vote for independence and can focus on building a Scotland that work's for the people that live here, the better. 

 

 

Nicola is doing a fine job as FM. The establishment propaganda always try to control the narrative. Britain needs to wake up and so do a lot of its people. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, Toggie88 said:

I agree. It is a distraction, however the only people that are actually talking about it endlessly, is those who are against it. Every piece of Tory/Labour/LibDem propaganda is about 'Nicola Sturgeon and the big bad SNP' being obsessed with independence, meanwhile the SNP Government have said more about Brexit in the last week than they have independence since the 2014. 

 

Willie Rennie, leader of the LibDems, accused Nicola Sturgeon of 'focusing on overturning the 2014 referendum rather than winning a second Brexit referendum'... ignoring the obvious hypocrisy in that statement regarding referendums, Nicola Sturgeon has been on every tv channel this week pushing a second EU referendum and went to Westminster to make the case there. Every single interview she gets asked about independence, every single time she says that she is focused on the issue of the moment (Brexit/NHS/Education) and will announce a potential referendum in due course. 

 

She isn't the one endlessly talking about independence - it's those opposed to independence that do. I do agree that this endless is bad for the country, the sooner we vote for independence and can focus on building a Scotland that work's for the people that live here, the better. 

 

 

 

Absolute shite, Sturgeon has never shut up about another referendum since just after the last one. The reason other parties are arguing against is exactly because of this. Talk about delusional, the hubz fans don’t get close...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, HMFC 86 said:

 

Absolute shite, Sturgeon has never shut up about another referendum since just after the last one. The reason other parties are arguing against is exactly because of this. Talk about delusional, the hubz fans don’t get close...

 

Show me when Sturgeon has 'never shut up about another referendum'. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Toggie88 said:

 

Show me when Sturgeon has 'never shut up about another referendum'. 

 

 

Not doing your research. Internet is your friend

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, HMFC 86 said:

 

Not doing your research. Internet is your friend

 

Because you can't. I'm very well informed on Scottish politics, whereas I think you're just lapping up the Tories/Labour/LibDem narrative - prove me wrong.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Toggie88 said:

 

Because you can't. I'm very well informed on Scottish politics, whereas I think you're just lapping up the Tories/Labour/LibDem narrative - prove me wrong.  

She was speaking about it the other day! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

Has someone said Jimmy Krankie yet?

Likely Yes vote from me.

Don't be so "Nippy" :facepalm:

 

Only a matter of time...

Edited by Sarah O
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Brighton Jambo
1 hour ago, Toggie88 said:

 

Show me when Sturgeon has 'never shut up about another referendum'. 

 

Are you being serious?  The second the Brexit vote was announced she did a press conference launching indyref2, she launched a consultation excercise with the Scottish people explicitly to understand and build the case for independence.  She pushed a motion through parliament demanding a second referendum and only this week publicly talked about Brexit strengthening the case dr independence.  I could go on and on.  

 

If you can’t or won’t accept that she raises it relentlessly you are either a liar or totally delusional.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Harry Potter said:

Cant believe we are still covering  auld ground here, we voted No, deal with it, 

there is going to be another vote whether you like it or not. this poll is asking which way you would vote

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, AlimOzturk said:

 

Scotland voted no when it was thought we would still be in the EU that was the big licks coming from the remain camp. Only way to stay in the EU is to remain In the UK. Well that worked out well didn't it. 

 

Question needs to be asked again. 

 

Problem is, the UK, which Scotland chose to remain in, voted to leave the EU. If we voted to leave the UK, the UK vote for the EU would not have mattered to us 1 bit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

As someone else posted, this thread is for a poll. Can we not keep the inane name calling for the other threads on the subject.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, superjack said:

Problem is, the UK, which Scotland chose to remain in, voted to leave the EU. If we voted to leave the UK, the UK vote for the EU would not have mattered to us 1 bit.

Now the guarantee was fake, time to take it back to the shop.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's strange how people think if we got independence that somehow we're stuck with SNP for ever. I think it would be quite interesting to see how the political landscape would change.

I'd imagine there would be new parties and alliances . 

Maybe a real change from the Westminster old boys club.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

Are you being serious?  The second the Brexit vote was announced she did a press conference launching indyref2, she launched a consultation excercise with the Scottish people explicitly to understand and build the case for independence.  She pushed a motion through parliament demanding a second referendum and only this week publicly talked about Brexit strengthening the case dr independence.  I could go on and on.  

 

If you can’t or won’t accept that she raises it relentlessly you are either a liar or totally delusional.  

 

False. She did a press conference on the issue of Brexit. She was asked by a reporter what this means for independence... and answered the question by saying she would update the Scottish Parliament within a few weeks. That's hardly 'launching indyref2' is it? Also, how can she have just launched indyref2 this week, if she's never shut-up about it since 2016? Talk about hypocrisy. 

 

Also she didn't 'push a motion through parliament'. There's a natural majority for independence in the Scottish Parliament and a democratic mandate to hold a referendum.

 

I don't think you understand how many motions go through the Scottish Parliament or  how many consultations are carried out by the Scottish government. If we're calling one motion and one consultation an obsession, then I don't know what you would call the hundreds on healthcare, Brexit, education and the environment...

 

Regardless, Sturgeon has a democratic mandate on an independence referendum. You might not like that fact, but she would be breaking that commitment to the electorate if she didn't pursue it within this term of parliament. So your effective complaint is
 'politician is obsessed with doing what they said they would do'. 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Brighton Jambo
19 minutes ago, Toggie88 said:

 

False. She did a press conference on the issue of Brexit. She was asked by a reporter what this means for independence... and answered the question by saying she would update the Scottish Parliament within a few weeks. That's hardly 'launching indyref2' is it? Also, how can she have just launched indyref2 this week, if she's never shut-up about it since 2016? Talk about hypocrisy. 

 

Also she didn't 'push a motion through parliament'. There's a natural majority for independence in the Scottish Parliament and a democratic mandate to hold a referendum.

 

I don't think you understand how many motions go through the Scottish Parliament or  how many consultations are carried out by the Scottish government. If we're calling one motion and one consultation an obsession, then I don't know what you would call the hundreds on healthcare, Brexit, education and the environment...

 

Regardless, Sturgeon has a democratic mandate on an independence referendum. You might not like that fact, but she would be breaking that commitment to the electorate if she didn't pursue it within this term of parliament. So your effective complaint is
 'politician is obsessed with doing what they said they would do'. 

 

 

 

 

So liar it is then.  

 

On in the day after the referendum sturgeon gave an interview in which she said 

We will begin to prepare the legislation that would be required to enable a new independence referendum 

 

Link to quote is here:  https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/after-brexit-the-uk-could-disintegrate/2016/06/24/5e7d2b03-81b4-4149-a138-8bd11953281c_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.e418308e1ab2

 

Note the date - 24th June the day after the vote. 

 

You made stuff up you have been caught out.  The credibility of your arguements is zero.  

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Westminster is a complete shambles and the last two years have fully exposed how unfit for purpose it is in the 21st Century.

 

Many people on this thread will be arguing the question "COULD" Scotland be an independent country, which is not the question in hand.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Brighton Jambo
30 minutes ago, Toggie88 said:

 

False. She did a press conference on the issue of Brexit. She was asked by a reporter what this means for independence... and answered the question by saying she would update the Scottish Parliament within a few weeks. That's hardly 'launching indyref2' is it? Also, how can she have just launched indyref2 this week, if she's never shut-up about it since 2016? Talk about hypocrisy. 

 

Also she didn't 'push a motion through parliament'. There's a natural majority for independence in the Scottish Parliament and a democratic mandate to hold a referendum.

 

I don't think you understand how many motions go through the Scottish Parliament or  how many consultations are carried out by the Scottish government. If we're calling one motion and one consultation an obsession, then I don't know what you would call the hundreds on healthcare, Brexit, education and the environment...

 

Regardless, Sturgeon has a democratic mandate on an independence referendum. You might not like that fact, but she would be breaking that commitment to the electorate if she didn't pursue it within this term of parliament. So your effective complaint is
 'politician is obsessed with doing what they said they would do'. 

 

 

 

 

Just for absolute clarity. Here is her speech the day after Brexit.  Not in answer to a question but a clear pre written statement in which she says independence referendum was back on the table.  

 

I have no problem with people having a different opinion to me but don’t just make stuff up.  

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

Now the guarantee was fake, time to take it back to the shop.

Totally agree that lies were told leading up to both referendums. I unfortunately believed some of them in the brexit vote, and I'm sure there are plenty of others who regret voting leave.

On the other hand, I'm glad I voted no in the independance vote. However, once brexit happens, maybe of the SNP try to work with what we as a country are left with, as we areout of Europe, in a few years there may be a case for another referendum. And if the UK government is still in a complete mess, people like me, and I include myself, might actually change their opinion as the country is already fecked and can't get any worse, therefore independence is the only viable option for change there is.

Don't know of my post makes sense, it does in my head though.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

58 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

So liar it is then.  

 

On in the day after the referendum sturgeon gave an interview in which she said 

We will begin to prepare the legislation that would be required to enable a new independence referendum 

 

Link to quote is here:  https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/after-brexit-the-uk-could-disintegrate/2016/06/24/5e7d2b03-81b4-4149-a138-8bd11953281c_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.e418308e1ab2

 

Note the date - 24th June the day after the vote. 

 

You made stuff up you have been caught out.  The credibility of your arguements is zero.  

 

 

 

 

Failed to respond to any of my points and response shows absolutely nothing expect name calling. 

 

What point are you trying to make? That Nicola Sturgeon talked about independence the day after the referendum on Brexit? She did talk about it, as she was widely expected to. What's your point?

 

You might hate it, but Nicola Sturgeon has a democratic mandate to hold another referendum and she's allowed to talk about it if she wants. Regardless, shouldn't really matter to you... y'know not being in the country. 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Brighton Jambo said:

Just for absolute clarity. Here is her speech the day after Brexit.  Not in answer to a question but a clear pre written statement in which she says independence referendum was back on the table.  

 

I have no problem with people having a different opinion to me but don’t just make stuff up.  

 

 

 

Again - what's your point? SNP leader makes comment confirming SNP manifesto? 

 

What am I making up? My point is Unionists (Labour/Tories/LibDems) go on about independence more than Nicola Sturgeon. Your comeback is a video of Nicola Sturgeon confirming her manifesto commitment the day after the Brexit vote. 

 

Your hatred for the SNP is clearly blinding you or you're completely out your depth. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, superjack said:

Totally agree that lies were told leading up to both referendums. I unfortunately believed some of them in the brexit vote, and I'm sure there are plenty of others who regret voting leave.

On the other hand, I'm glad I voted no in the independance vote. However, once brexit happens, maybe of the SNP try to work with what we as a country are left with, as we areout of Europe, in a few years there may be a case for another referendum. And if the UK government is still in a complete mess, people like me, and I include myself, might actually change their opinion as the country is already fecked and can't get any worse, therefore independence is the only viable option for change there is.

Don't know of my post makes sense, it does in my head though.

 

 

It does to me, I think. Correct me if I'm wrong, but essentially you feel lied to by the 'No' campaign in the 2014 referendum and you expect things to go down the tubes with Brexit happening, in which case you would maybe support independence? 

 

I think a lot of people will share you view. There was undoubtedly lies told by the Better Together campaign (The vow?!) and by Boris & Co during Brexit (£350m for the NHS) - there's effectively zero integrity and they'll say whatever they can to get people to vote the way they wanted. 

 

So my question is, if you were given the option of voting for independence now and avoiding the expected chaos with Brexit - why not take it? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Brighton Jambo
1 hour ago, Toggie88 said:

 

Again - what's your point? SNP leader makes comment confirming SNP manifesto? 

 

What am I making up? My point is Unionists (Labour/Tories/LibDems) go on about independence more than Nicola Sturgeon. Your comeback is a video of Nicola Sturgeon confirming her manifesto commitment the day after the Brexit vote. 

 

Your hatred for the SNP is clearly blinding you or you're completely out your depth. 

You said:

 

“False. She did a press conference on the issue of Brexit. She was asked by a reporter what this means for independence... and answered the question by saying she would update the Scottish Parliament within a few weeks. That's hardly 'launching indyref2' is it?”

 

i was was merely highlighting that what you said was 100% factually incorrect.  Both the article and the video prove that beyond any doubt.  

 

And then you have the cheek to say I’m out of my depth! 

Edited by Brighton Jambo
Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, Toggie88 said:

 

It does to me, I think. Correct me if I'm wrong, but essentially you feel lied to by the 'No' campaign in the 2014 referendum and you expect things to go down the tubes with Brexit happening, in which case you would maybe support independence? 

 

I think a lot of people will share you view. There was undoubtedly lies told by the Better Together campaign (The vow?!) and by Boris & Co during Brexit (£350m for the NHS) - there's effectively zero integrity and they'll say whatever they can to get people to vote the way they wanted. 

 

So my question is, if you were given the option of voting for independence now and avoiding the expected chaos with Brexit - why not take it? 

Thank feck someone understands me. Don’t get me wrong, I never believed the 350 million to the nhs every week line, what I did believe though is the money being spent on the EU every week would be suitably invested.

what I now realise, this money will mostly stay in south east England, the current grants for the crafters where I live on Lewis will stop immediately, that is just 1 example.

If there was proper leadership of the UK, which there hasn’t been for quite a while, there would be no issue, Brexit, if it was still voted for, would be carried out proper;y, with the interest of everyone looked after.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

You said:

 

“False. She did a press conference on the issue of Brexit. She was asked by a reporter what this means for independence... and answered the question by saying she would update the Scottish Parliament within a few weeks. That's hardly 'launching indyref2' is it?”

 

i was was merely pointing out what nonsense you were talking.  And then you have the cheek to say I’m out of my depth! 

 

Ah, I was referring to the press conference she did this week at Westminster... It makes sense you highlighting that press conference in that respect now. My apologies for the misunderstanding on that point. 

 

That being said, on the point you're trying to make. Page 23 of the SNP manifesto for the 2016 referendum said: 

 

Quote

We believe that the Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum if there
is clear and sustained evidence that independence has become the preferred option of a majority of the Scottish people – or if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in
2014, such as Scotland being taken out of the EU against our will.

Source

 

Now, what's your beef with her raising this the day after it became clear that the one pre-requisite she out as a 'material change' happened? Surely, it would have been absolutely madness not to address the point in that statement? 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Brighton Jambo
3 minutes ago, Toggie88 said:

 

Ah, I was referring to the press conference she did this week at Westminster... It makes sense you highlighting that press conference in that respect now. My apologies for the misunderstanding on that point. 

 

That being said, on the point you're trying to make. Page 23 of the SNP manifesto for the 2016 referendum said: 

 

 

Now, what's your beef with her raising this the day after it became clear that the one pre-requisite she out as a 'material change' happened? Surely, it would have been absolutely madness not to address the point in that statement? 

 

To be fair I don’t have an issue with her raising it that day, it was logical for her to do so.  It was more the claim she didn’t that was driving me mad!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

To be fair I don’t have an issue with her raising it that day, it was logical for her to do so.  It was more the claim she didn’t that was driving me mad!!

 

Re-reading it now, I can totally see why that would drive you mad. Apologies again, I thought we were talking about something completely different. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Brighton Jambo
8 minutes ago, Toggie88 said:

 

Re-reading it now, I can totally see why that would drive you mad. Apologies again, I thought we were talking about something completely different. 

No worries!  Have a good evening 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thunderstruck
2 hours ago, Toggie88 said:

 

False. She did a press conference on the issue of Brexit. She was asked by a reporter what this means for independence... and answered the question by saying she would update the Scottish Parliament within a few weeks. That's hardly 'launching indyref2' is it? Also, how can she have just launched indyref2 this week, if she's never shut-up about it since 2016? Talk about hypocrisy. 

 

Also she didn't 'push a motion through parliament'. There's a natural majority for independence in the Scottish Parliament and a democratic mandate to hold a referendum.

 

I don't think you understand how many motions go through the Scottish Parliament or  how many consultations are carried out by the Scottish government. If we're calling one motion and one consultation an obsession, then I don't know what you would call the hundreds on healthcare, Brexit, education and the environment...

 

Regardless, Sturgeon has a democratic mandate on an independence referendum. You might not like that fact, but she would be breaking that commitment to the electorate if she didn't pursue it within this term of parliament. So your effective complaint is
 'politician is obsessed with doing what they said they would do'. 

 

 

 

 

 

So, getting 45% of the popular vote is now a ‘mandate’ (that includes the Green vote). 

 

Mind you, that was before the 2017 UKPGE when there was a considerable swing away from the SNP which ended up with 37% of the vote. Maybe that was also a ‘mandate’. Also note that this was a year after the EU Referendum. 

 

We also hear that the vote in the EU Referendum somehow conferred a mandate. I wouldn’t be so sure...

F9782CB0-EB7B-4464-BA36-33FC5523C85A.png

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




×
×
  • Create New...