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Leeds Spygate


JamboGraham

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Anyone can turn up at the Oriam. In fact I’ve seen many opposition players and managers watching games there in the past. 

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2 hours ago, Stephen Muddie said:

Legality rarely marries with morality...

 

Cheers 

Perhaps not, but there is nothing immoral about using all legal avenues to study the opposition. 

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portobellojambo1
2 minutes ago, Paolo said:

Perhaps not, but there is nothing immoral about using all legal avenues to study the opposition. 

 

I'd tend to agree with that in general. But in all honesty I think that any manager/coach wanting to find out how their potential opposition is likely to perform on match day would be better watching a few games they have already played to get some ideas of what's in store, rather than watching a training session.

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Just now, portobellojambo1 said:

 

I'd tend to agree with that in general. But in all honesty I think that any manager/coach wanting to find out how their potential opposition is likely to perform on match day would be better watching a few games they have already played to get some ideas of what's in store, rather than watching a training session.

I am guessing they done that too. 

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44 minutes ago, portobellojambo1 said:

 

I'd tend to agree with that in general. But in all honesty I think that any manager/coach wanting to find out how their potential opposition is likely to perform on match day would be better watching a few games they have already played to get some ideas of what's in store, rather than watching a training session.

That's exactly what the purpose of his press conference today was to convey. They do so much work, have so much detailed information from studying games etc that the watching of training doesn't give them much value in the grand scheme of things. A bit disingenuous I would say if you are picking up the formation and line up which is being practiced on in training running up to the game, but I get his point.

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Captain_Peacock
51 minutes ago, portobellojambo1 said:

 

I'd tend to agree with that in general. But in all honesty I think that any manager/coach wanting to find out how their potential opposition is likely to perform on match day would be better watching a few games they have already played to get some ideas of what's in store, rather than watching a training session.

 

It's worth going over the the press conference today to see the details, the club went over 360 hours of footage of Derby matches, I think he said roughly 4 hours of footage per game.

 

 

 

50 minutes ago, Paolo said:

I am guessing they done that too. 

 

Correct.

 

https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/sport/football/leeds-united/full-transcript-of-every-word-marcelo-bielsa-said-in-leeds-united-spygate-conference-1-9541432

Quote


Apart from the players in the staff you have around 20 people. These 20 people create a volume of information. It's absolutely not necessary. It doesn't define the path of the competition. So why do we do that? Because we feel guilty if we don't work enough. It allows us to not have anxiety. In a few words I am going to tell you something that is not easy to explain. How we analyse each opponent without having to go and watch the training session.

"360 hours has gone into this

 

 

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Captain_Peacock

@portobello jambo I made an error in my post above ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

They spent 360 hours analysing Derby County in preparation for the match,  it isn't clear that this means 360 hours of match footage.

 

During the press conference today Bielsa went over the level of data they collect for each team / player and how it's analysed which I found pretty astounding.

 

It's worth watching clips of the conference today if you're interested enough in the data collected.

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Captain_Peacock

@portobello jambo Got there in the end re the number of hours of Derby County match footage  LUFC studied in prep for the game.

 

51 games, 4 hours of footage per game =  204 hours.

 

 

From the YEP's Phil Hay at the press conference https://twitter.com/PhilHayYEP?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

Quote


Phil Hay @PhilHayYEP 5h5 hours ago

 
 

Bielsa says his staff watched all 51 games Derby played last season. Each game took four hours to analyse. "Why did we do that? Because we think this is professional behaviour. It's to try and avoid being ignorant about the competition we're playing in."

 

 

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5 hours ago, Sooperstar said:

 

 

??????

 

Stan Collymore is so full of shit its unreal. 

 

Forgot the silly prick was  still alive. 

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Bazzas right boot

It's a bit daft. 

A spy would stick out like a sore thumb, just ask him to leave. 

 

 

spy.jpeg

Edited by Olly Lee's left boot
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12 hours ago, Captain_Peacock said:

 

During the press conference today Bielsa went over the level of data they collect for each team / player and how it's analysed which I found pretty astounding.

 

It's worth watching clips of the conference today if you're interested enough in the data collected.

 

I assume Hearts do the same - maybe not watching +100hours of video - but the statistics side of game must be done by many and a lot of data can be automated over time. 

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14 hours ago, portobellojambo1 said:

 

I'd tend to agree with that in general. But in all honesty I think that any manager/coach wanting to find out how their potential opposition is likely to perform on match day would be better watching a few games they have already played to get some ideas of what's in store, rather than watching a training session.

 

I'm pretty sure that what is gained from watching the training sessions will be little more than affirming what has already been gathered from watching a high number of previous games.

 

The only real advantage would be in the rare cases where a team decide that the only way to win against you is to play in a way that they are entirely unaccustomed too and spend the week of the game practising the new tactics, a close to home example would be the Czech Republic sending someone to watch Scotland expecting them to come back with confirmation that Scotland were training in a 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 formation as those were the only 2 formations employed over the last 15 games, but the scout/spy comes back and say's actually they are training with no identifiable striker and seem to be set up in a 4-6-0.

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Bazzas right boot
3 minutes ago, Ribble said:

 

I'm pretty sure that what is gained from watching the training sessions will be little more than affirming what has already been gathered from watching a high number of previous games.

 

The only real advantage would be in the rare cases where a team decide that the only way to win against you is to play in a way that they are entirely unaccustomed too and spend the week of the game practising the new tactics, a close to home example would be the Czech Republic sending someone to watch Scotland expecting them to come back with confirmation that Scotland were training in a 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 formation as those were the only 2 formations employed over the last 15 games, but the scout/spy comes back and say's actually they are training with no identifiable striker and seem to be set up in a 4-6-0.

 

 

Or set pieces. 

Might get an insight into those. 

 

 

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Captain_Peacock
1 hour ago, Mysterion said:

 

I assume Hearts do the same - maybe not watching +100hours of video - but the statistics side of game must be done by many and a lot of data can be automated over time. 

I can't comment on the resource Hearts put into this.

I can tell you it's a million miles away from what Dave Hockaday etc were doing at Thorp Arch and the period where Redfern was on his jack having to do everything.

 

It looks like Leeds have a staff of 20 analysing  video footage, stats and data. That is certainly something unprecedented at Leeds.

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25 minutes ago, Ribble said:

 

I'm pretty sure that what is gained from watching the training sessions will be little more than affirming what has already been gathered from watching a high number of previous games.

 

The only real advantage would be in the rare cases where a team decide that the only way to win against you is to play in a way that they are entirely unaccustomed too and spend the week of the game practising the new tactics, a close to home example would be the Czech Republic sending someone to watch Scotland expecting them to come back with confirmation that Scotland were training in a 4-4-2 or 4-5-1 formation as those were the only 2 formations employed over the last 15 games, but the scout/spy comes back and say's actually they are training with no identifiable striker and seem to be set up in a 4-6-0.

 

The big advantage Leeds got was if they saw Harry Wilson was out. A big loss for Derby and may have changed starting Leeds team. Hence visit the day before game.

 

Be interesting to see if they visit Stoke today / tomorrow. 

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15 hours ago, portobellojambo1 said:

 

I'd tend to agree with that in general. But in all honesty I think that any manager/coach wanting to find out how their potential opposition is likely to perform on match day would be better watching a few games they have already played to get some ideas of what's in store, rather than watching a training session.

Agree and disagree. Who knew that Haring and Morrison would be playing up top in the first derby. That's clearly worked on in training only.  Shaping and set pieces can tell a lot about the teams focus on match day which could change from previous matches. 

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