Beast Boy Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Stupidest oft trotted out platitudes on a football forum: 1) If *insert richer club here* wanted him, he’d go there. 2) If he’s any good, how come he’s still at *insert club here*. A combination of stating the obvious and an inability to apply joined up thinking. If our manager put too much stock in such simplistic thinking we’d never have any decent players, we’d be 12 goals down on this season’s total and we’d still be leaking goals left right and centre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAlim Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Didn't jeffries try to bring in Bryson when he was still a killie player, we were miles apart on the fee iirc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said: Stupidest oft trotted out platitudes on a football forum: 1) If *insert richer club here* wanted him, he’d go there. 2) If he’s any good, how come he’s still at *insert club here*. A combination of stating the obvious and an inability to apply joined up thinking. If our manager put too much stock in such simplistic thinking we’d never have any decent players, we’d be 12 goals down on this season’s total and we’d still be leaking goals left right and centre. I'm not so sure about your point 2. You get the impression players like Balotelli are not the best for harmony within a club but good on the pitch. Other players are very good but injury prone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 1 minute ago, JamboAl said: I'm not so sure about your point 2. You get the impression players like Balotelli are not the best for harmony within a club but good on the pitch. Other players are very good but injury prone. Both 1) and 2) are completely pointless statements tbh. 1) is a general rule of thumb that applies to every club and player on the planet except in extraordinary circumstances where an individual player has personal circumstances or relationships that have become a bigger priority than their wage. 2) is a completely pointless statement that does not allow for an absolute shit-tonne of circumstances that could be involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 31 minutes ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said: Both 1) and 2) are completely pointless statements tbh. 1) is a general rule of thumb that applies to every club and player on the planet except in extraordinary circumstances where an individual player has personal circumstances or relationships that have become a bigger priority than their wage. 2) is a completely pointless statement that does not allow for an absolute shit-tonne of circumstances that could be involved. I agree but given that 2 embraces a "shit-tonne of circumstances that could be involved", it seems perfectly valid to cite that as a reason for a player still being at the same club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, JamboAl said: I agree but given that 2 embraces a "shit-tonne of circumstances that could be involved", it seems perfectly valid to cite that as a reason for a player still being at the same club. Yes. That’s my point, mate. Both statements are pointless. It’s boring when they are trotted out in relation to transfer business. I am referring to the use of the statements to be negative about incoming and outgoing transfers. Both are far too simplistic but often used to run a player down, rather than judging the player on what one sees with one’s own eyes. Edited January 13, 2019 by Glib and Shameless Crier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 6 minutes ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said: Yes. That’s my point, mate. Both statements are pointless. It’s boring when they are trotted out in relation to transfer business. I am referring to the use of the statements to be negative about incoming and outgoing transfers. Both are far too simplistic but often used to run a player down, rather than judging the player on what one sees with one’s own eyes. 1 They are indeed but you'd hardly find a manager coming out and saying I'd sign XYZ but - he is a troublemaker - he is a toper - he beats his wife up once a week - etc etc It's perfectly reasonable to cite your point 2 as a possibility for not signing someone because the actual facts may not be known, even if it is simplistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 16 minutes ago, JamboAl said: They are indeed but you'd hardly find a manager coming out and saying I'd sign XYZ but - he is a troublemaker - he is a toper - he beats his wife up once a week - etc etc It's perfectly reasonable to cite your point 2 as a possibility for not signing someone because the actual facts may not be known, even if it is simplistic. Ah, now I see what you are getting at. I am looking at it from another side of the fence. I am talking about when supporters run down a player that we are linked with (or even sign), without having seen them play for us. Often the reason they claim to be “underwhelmed” is down to that player being at a lower level than us. Likewise it is often trotted out to explain why a Hearts player is “shit”, because they have not been snapped up yet, by a bigger club. In recent times a combination of 1) and/or 2) have been used as reasons why; Djoum, Bjorn Johnsen, Milinkovic and many others are not good players. Both are obviously factors that will be considered by managers and coaches when looking at players, but it’s not enough to make a definitive decision on quality, as neither take enough other potential variables in to consideration. That’s why I get bored of reading them trotted out so often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pasquale for King Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 12 hours ago, chester copperpot said: I am just guessing but think they will easily get half a mill for the guy. Seems a good prospect whenever I've watched him, which granted, hasn't been a lot! Macall has said nobody will be leaving in January (had a bid for Liam Smith apparently), not always a sure fire guarantee, and Shankland is out of contract in the summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Future's Maroon Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 11 hours ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said: Very. What have you heard? Heard an enquiry had been made, I thought it was in last few days but I misheard, it was a few weeks before Xmas. Other clubs interested down south, and possibly Rangers going by press reports, think it’s dead in the water now, unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DH1986 Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Would we really make an enquiry about signing someone who’s been a virtual ever present in a team chasing promotion to the English Premier League ? I’m going to say no.....we wouldn’t. Certainly not mid-season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Boy Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 17 minutes ago, The Future's Maroon said: Heard an enquiry had been made, I thought it was in last few days but I misheard, it was a few weeks before Xmas. Other clubs interested down south, and possibly Rangers going by press reports, think it’s dead in the water now, unfortunately. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfhearts Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 So To be Frank can say he would rather have Vanechek than Defoe or Shankar and I get called the hobo what makes you so certain he won't be like shite. I hope he is decent but that's just a dippit statement. Also Bryson is a midfielder the boss is on record as saying midfield is fine ( unless djoum goes now). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainmac Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 22 hours ago, dazajmbo said: of ? I Still believe Charlie Adam will be a Hearts player. Might not happen this window but I believe we have spoken to him and he is keen. It was left at that. Likewise Jamie Walker. I'm a bit confused about this. If we've spoken to CA and he's keen... why would we leave it at that? Wouldn't we try to make it happen? ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Future's Maroon Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 15 minutes ago, DH1986 said: Would we really make an enquiry about signing someone who’s been a virtual ever present in a team chasing promotion to the English Premier League ? I’m going to say no.....we wouldn’t. Certainly not mid-season. Players (contracts running out) and clubs are contacted throughout the whole season a hell of a lot. It doesn’t just happen during transfer windows? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTT Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Just now, iainmac said: I'm a bit confused about this. If we've spoken to CA and he's keen... why would we leave it at that? Wouldn't we try to make it happen? ? I can only assume he's on EPL wages still, so he's unwilling to forgo potentially hundreds of thousands to come and join us on 2/3k p/w. Can't really fault him for that tbh Maybe if some sort of pay off can be agreed with Stoke we might snag him before the window shuts. I think thats a negoitation between him and stoke though (much like Naisy and Norwich). Not too much we can do I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BelgeJambo Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 15 minutes ago, Lfhearts said: So To be Frank can say he would rather have Vanechek than Defoe or Shankar and I get called the hobo what makes you so certain he won't be like shite. I hope he is decent but that's just a dippit statement. Also Bryson is a midfielder the boss is on record as saying midfield is fine ( unless djoum goes now). Went to Derby v Bristol City recently and had to ask if Bryson was playing. anonymous Lee Johnson doing a great job with Bristol btw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 17 hours ago, The White Cockade said: agreed but less of a punt than Wighton or Amankwaa in my book Difference is you are judging whether Wighton and Amankwaa were decent punts after the fact whereas with Shankland you are making the judgement beforehand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 11 minutes ago, iainmac said: I'm a bit confused about this. If we've spoken to CA and he's keen... why would we leave it at that? Wouldn't we try to make it happen? ? Two possible reasons 1. CA wants a suitable pay-off from Stoke (although he can't be that keen if he's not willing to forgo/negotiate any payment) 2.Hearts could sign him now but are unwilling to pay a fee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, BelgeJambo said: Went to Derby v Bristol City recently and had to ask if Bryson was playing. anonymous Lee Johnson doing a great job with Bristol btw I saw Bryson v Leeds on Friday and saw him earlier in season too. He fits the bill for the SPFL. I think he would do okay. A bit surprised if Derby let him go. Unless Lampard is radically changing squad this month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Cockade Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 1 minute ago, graygo said: Difference is you are judging whether Wighton and Amankwaa were decent punts after the fact whereas with Shankland you are making the judgement beforehand. not really mate Shankland's goal stats speak for themselves Wighton had disappeared from sight at Dundee and career was going nowhere Amankwaa was a complete unknown and we obviously assumed because he played for a half decent team he'd be ok Shankland may not turn out to be great at a higher level but he is a goalscorer and nobody else playing at that level is even close to him in goals scored so from that point of view must be worth a punt it's not like he's playing Sunday League football so he must have something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 4 minutes ago, The White Cockade said: not really mate Shankland's goal stats speak for themselves Wighton had disappeared from sight at Dundee and career was going nowhere Amankwaa was a complete unknown and we obviously assumed because he played for a half decent team he'd be ok Shankland may not turn out to be great at a higher level but he is a goalscorer and nobody else playing at that level is even close to him in goals scored so from that point of view must be worth a punt it's not like he's playing Sunday League football so he must have something Fair enough, I'm always reminded of James Keatings though when I hear about how a prolific goalscorer in the lower leagues will thrive in the Premier league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick witter Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 3 hours ago, Barack said: I'm on about money. Not affiliations to a particular club. "We can't afford so & so"..we don't even know what they're asking for. How did we afford Tziolis, for example. A multi-millionaire. Paid him his equivalent wage at Monaco...? No. Think people are still too quick to write off the chances of a particular club, not just Hearts, and their chances of landing a player. Suppose it's a hangover ingrained from the last 20 years, in fairness. It's not always about money. Good job that Kilmarnock, Hibs, Aberdeen & Hearts' management, seem to be trying to break away from the same mindset some supporters have, & will actively go after a player, & not just settle for "it's been reported in a couple of papers Rangers or Celtic are interested"... and then say we'll not bother, as we're only parochial shite. Fair point with regards to money ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick witter Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 3 hours ago, JamboAl said: Whether Naismith is at Rangers Hearts or even QoS would ultimately have been Norwich's decision as he is their player and he will be getting his full Norwich wage, one way or another. It might be a different matter at the end of the season. This is true but I would think Norwich would let the player choose where he wanted to go if all 3 clubs and they met the wage contribution required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wavydavy Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 24 minutes ago, JamboAl said: Two possible reasons 1. CA wants a suitable pay-off from Stoke (although he can't be that keen if he's not willing to forgo/negotiate any payment) 2.Hearts could sign him now but are unwilling to pay a fee We could sign him now on a pre-contract if he really wanted to come to us and he could still get his money from Stoke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DH1986 Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 32 minutes ago, The Future's Maroon said: Players (contracts running out) and clubs are contacted throughout the whole season a hell of a lot. It doesn’t just happen during transfer windows? I realise this. If the story is true we could only have been sounding him out for a potential summer arrival rather than this window.......trying to get him now would have been a futile exercise given he’s a regular for Derby. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainmac Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 26 minutes ago, JamboAl said: Two possible reasons 1. CA wants a suitable pay-off from Stoke (although he can't be that keen if he's not willing to forgo/negotiate any payment) 2.Hearts could sign him now but are unwilling to pay a fee Fair points Al but a loan would sort that out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DH1986 Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 1 minute ago, wavydavy said: We could sign him now on a pre-contract if he really wanted to come to us and he could still get his money from Stoke. Exactly. And doing this would probably increase his chances of a quick pay-off from Stoke allowing both parties to move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iainmac Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 22 minutes ago, The White Cockade said: not really mate Shankland's goal stats speak for themselves Wighton had disappeared from sight at Dundee and career was going nowhere Amankwaa was a complete unknown and we obviously assumed because he played for a half decent team he'd be ok Shankland may not turn out to be great at a higher level but he is a goalscorer and nobody else playing at that level is even close to him in goals scored so from that point of view must be worth a punt it's not like he's playing Sunday League football so he must have something Gavin Reilly, James Keatings, Dennis Wyness, Gerry McCoy (one for our older members!) were all prolific in the lower leagues but couldn't make the step up. I'm not saying Shankland won't but you can't go by stats alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboAl Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 1 minute ago, iainmac said: Fair points Al but a loan would sort that out. Agreed but a loan leaves the player with options until the end of the season. Signing him now would make CA ours immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Weir Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 (edited) 53 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said: I saw Bryson v Leeds on Friday and saw him earlier in season too. He fits the bill for the SPFL. I think he would do okay. A bit surprised if Derby let him go. Unless Lampard is radically changing squad this month. If Derby County are going to take a step forward and reach the Premier League, they've got to upgrade on guys like Bryson. He's been a good servant to Derby. They haven't achieved promotion in his time there. This being the 8th attempt Another who's most probably a boyhood Ibrox type Edited January 13, 2019 by Jim Weir Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC_92 Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 52 minutes ago, graygo said: Fair enough, I'm always reminded of James Keatings though when I hear about how a prolific goalscorer in the lower leagues will thrive in the Premier league. Keatings, whose best ever tally in the Championship was 13 goals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartofmidlothian Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 15 hours ago, JamboGraham said: Anyone know the story with Michael O’Halloran? Just released on “compassionate” grounds by Melbourne City after only a few months, had a nightmare injury when he first joined them but only a few weeks ago was saying fit again and ready to go? Not a great time with Rangers but was a strong performer with St Johnstone. I'm not sure, but I'd imagine a lot of players going that far for a deal might have some sort of cancellation clause in their contract. It's a big commitment for any length of time and nobody wants an unsettled player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graygo Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 20 minutes ago, DC_92 said: Keatings, whose best ever tally in the Championship was 13 goals? Aye him, that's who he reminds me of. Rory McAllister of Peterhead would be another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 1 hour ago, iainmac said: I'm a bit confused about this. If we've spoken to CA and he's keen... why would we leave it at that? Wouldn't we try to make it happen? ? He probably needs to persuade Stoke to give him a pay-off that he is happy with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC_92 Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 11 minutes ago, graygo said: Aye him, that's who he reminds me of. Rory McAllister of Peterhead would be another. Keatings, Reilly, etc. never scored at anywhere near the rate Shankland is scoring at so it's a useless comparison. Rory McAllister has never played in the first division/Championship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Hearing we’ve enquired about a big name...?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudi must stay Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, To Be Frank said: Hearing we’ve enquired about a big name...?? You know you can't really be taken seriously with that avatar right? Edited January 13, 2019 by rudi must stay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notts1874 Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, To Be Frank said: Hearing we’ve enquired about a big name...?? ???????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 1 minute ago, Barack said: I'd like to see us tap into the Portuguese market again. A quicker version of Bruno, for example. A young, exciting talent, needing experience. Sure there's one or two out there... Think we must have a similar source ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Just now, Notts1874 said: ???????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notts1874 Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 3 minutes ago, Barack said: I'd like to see us tap into the Portuguese market again. A quicker version of Bruno, for example. A young, exciting talent, needing experience. Sure there's one or two out there... What have you heard boss? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadj Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 8 minutes ago, To Be Frank said: Hearing we’ve enquired about a big name...?? ??????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, Barack said: Doubt it, mate. ??♂️?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadj Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 6 minutes ago, Barack said: I'd like to see us tap into the Portuguese market again. A quicker version of Bruno, for example. A young, exciting talent, needing experience. Sure there's one or two out there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alwaysthereinspirit Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 11 minutes ago, To Be Frank said: Hearing we’ve enquired about a big name...?? Bobby McConsequental. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTT Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Barack said: Nothing concrete. Contact made though with an English Club, about some new Portuguese blood possibly arriving. No %'s of assurance though, sorry. That club Wolves by any chance - Cathro's there now eh? Edited January 13, 2019 by OTT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Beni of Gorgie Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Got to say the standard of thread we have been used to in these windows. This one is really poor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Kintner Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Barack said: Nothing concrete. Contact made though with an English Club, about some new Portuguese blood possibly arriving. No %'s of assurance though, sorry. Similar to what I’ve heard. Might be something in it ?? Edited January 13, 2019 by To Be Frank Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DH1986 Posted January 13, 2019 Share Posted January 13, 2019 Adilson Angel Abreu Almeida Gomes...... Not going to get a bigger Portuguese name than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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