Can you defend the indefensible?

[jamboinglasgow]

Thought this could be fun.

 

Pick one player, past or present, who everyone agrees was terrible and argue why they were not. 

 

I start with a tough one, Oshaniwa. A player who was never given time to adjust to left back in Scottish football, but had the technical ability that if coached properly and the right player in front of them could have been an attacking wing back.

 

Can you make a better defensive of a Hearts player that all see as terrible

 

[Beast Boy]

Mehdi Taouille

Callum Elliot

Conor Sammon

 

 

 

[jamboinglasgow]

2 minutes ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said:

Mehdi Taouille

Callum Elliot

Conor Sammon

 

 

 

 

was meaning giving reasons rather than just listing names.

[heartsfc_fan]

Blazej Augustyn - didn't think he was actually that bad. Had no pace but won every header. Seemed to get dropped after a mare (v Celtic maybe?) Then was never really seen again.

 

Bjorn Johnsen - poor management from Cathro meant he didn't look interested. Had something in there imo. With a bit of proper coaching he would've been a good player.

Edited December 27, 2018 by heartsfc_fan

[Jlv2004]

2 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

was meaning giving reasons rather than just listing names.

I can see the other two but how the **** do you justify Connor Salmon?

[Jlv2004]

10 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

Thought this could be fun.

 

Pick one player, past or present, who everyone agrees was terrible and argue why they were not. 

 

I start with a tough one, Oshaniwa. A player who was never given time to adjust to left back in Scottish football, but had the technical ability that if coached properly and the right player in front of them could have been an attacking wing back.

 

Can you make a better defensive of a Hearts player that all see as terrible

 

I actually thought Oshinawa could have been a decent player. 

In particular he was outstanding at Parkhead until he lost the plot and got sent off.

[Jim Weir]

3 minutes ago, heartsfc_fan said:

Blazej Augustyn

Bjorn Johnsen

 

I thought Augustyn was decent. Strong no nonsense defender. Had much worse before and since 

 

Johnsen is one who has gone on to a better level since leaving Hearts 

[smiler]

Andy Watson.

Never really worked out for him, the boy had real talent and ability.

[Jlv2004]

3 minutes ago, smiler said:

Andy Watson.

Never really worked out for him, the boy had real talent and ability.

No he didn't. 

[Beast Boy]

Just now, jamboinglasgow said:

 

was meaning giving reasons rather than just listing names.

 

Was just going to wait until someone challenged me on one of them, but okay:

 

Mehdi was absolutely fantastic at keeping the ball and with the right players around him, and the right style of play, he would have shown that to more people. I particularly liked him as a deep playmaker. He was caught out too often usually because the players around him weren’t getting in to good enough positions for him to find them with a ball to their feet or just in front of them. 

 

Elliot I shouldn’t even need to defend, but I had to do numerous times when he was our player. Most of the fans turned against him because of the video of him dancing. He was labelled a ‘p**f’ etc, and for many folk there was no coming back from that. 

The boy was a talented player, but his mental strength seemed to suffer a bit through loans he didn’t want, non-football related criticism, and injuries. 

He got to the final of an U19 international tournament sitting behind Steven Fletcher, and pulling the strings for him. I see him as a real ‘what could have been’ player for us. Felt sorry for the lad.

 

Conor Sammon goes on scoring streaks and then has times where he can’t buy a goal. Not a target man despite his size, and his link up play at times for us was promising. Not a world beater, but capable at SPFL Premiership level.

[smiler]

Just now, Jlv2004 said:

No he didn't. 

A ken mate, he epitomises the indefensible.

[Victorian]

Ricardas Beniusis.

 

Scored about 100 goals in Lithuania before joining Hearts.    About 50 after leaving.     Must have had some sort of finishing ability.     Decided to hide it while here.

[Notts1874]

People not getting the point of this thread ????

[Beast Boy]

Just now, Victorian said:

Ricardas Beniusis.

 

Scored about 100 goals in Lithuania before joining Hearts.    About 50 after leaving.     Must have had some sort of finishing ability.     Decided to hide it while here.

 

Was tossed in to a derby on his debut and his nerves were shot. Think he missed a good chance and was then labelled a ‘lif dud’ by most, who wanted Hleb’s wee brother instead.

[Bazzas right boot]

10 minutes ago, Jlv2004 said:

I actually thought Oshinawa could have been a decent player. 

In particular he was outstanding at Parkhead until he lost the plot and got sent off.

 

 

Sums him up. 

 

His best game was when he missed a great chance and then got sent off. 

 

If that's your best game..... 

[Victorian]

Just now, Glib and Shameless Crier said:

 

Was tossed in to a derby on his debut and his nerves were shot. Think he missed a good chance and was then labelled a ‘lif dud’ by most, who wanted Hleb’s wee brother instead.

 

Ah Slava Hleb.    Resident of Roseburn.

[Beast Boy]

Just now, Victorian said:

 

Ah Slava Hleb.    Resident of Roseburn.

 

I remember the clamour for him to sign. Then Romanov brought in Big Benni and just said “he has a far better strike record than Hleb JR”... cue froth everywhere. Lif dud, pyramid of pish, etc.

[Bazzas right boot]

 

Kevin twaddle. 

 

Good first touch, decent strike rate before us, hearts supporter, ne ER really got a chance. 

 

Helped us beat hibs 5-1, just by being on the pitch as he stretched their back line giving space to DeVries and Valois. 

[Victorian]

Ludek Straceny.

 

Scored for Viktoria Zizkov when they beat Rangers.    Could stand up unaided.

[Victorian]

Gordan Petric.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Geez a minute but.

[Alex Kintner]

Tzolis. He was clearly too good a player for us and the rest of the players just weren’t on his wavelength. 

[Jambos_1874]

5 minutes ago, To Be Frank said:

Tzolis. He was clearly too good a player for us and the rest of the players just weren’t on his wavelength. 

 

So much the same as Naismith then!!

[lsimp77]

Craig Wighton. Was clearly brought in as a backup and due to the ridiculous amount of injuries has been thrown in when he’s not ready/not when Levein wanted him to be. 

Edited December 27, 2018 by lsimp77

[Beast Boy]

2 minutes ago, Jambos_1874 said:

 

So much the same as Naismith then!!

 

Not sure about that tbh. Naismith improves the performances of those around him and links well with Uche, McLean and Haring.

Edited December 27, 2018 by Glib and Shameless Crier

[OTT]

Christian Nade

 

Argument: Nade was poorly utilised by Laszlo, Warnock had wanted to take him to Crystal Palace which says there was a bit of trust there. Not only that, but Warnock is still managing in the premier league which I think adds credibility. Nade wasn't a lone striker, its like playing Mclean upfront just now. Totally pointless. If he had a strike partner like Kevin Kyle had Stephen Elliot we'd likely have seen a much more effective player. 

 

I think his poor use by Laszlo sapped away motivation and thats why he ended up massively overweight. His form deteriorated because he wasn't being used correctly and his motivation followed. Had Laszlo been willing to play 2 upfront we'd have saw more goals. In fairness he wasn't signed by Laszlo  similarly to John Sutton not being signed by Paulo. Both had previously proved they were competent in their position before falling into a system they hadn't signed up for and being shown up (in that system!)

 

Into what he actually contributed. Transfermarket has him at 90 app 9 goals and 7 assists. I'd say for a striker that wasn't being used well that isn't the worst return. He's more effective than many of the strikers we've had in recent years (Sammon & Watt for example). I think you can actually see the impact Laszlo had with a spurt of goals early on (Falkirk, Hibs and Aberdeen)  in 2007 when he signed. Then Laszlo comes in and they dry up in 2008. 

 

Thats my best shot  

[Jlv2004]

24 minutes ago, WeeChuck'sHeed said:

 

 

Sums him up. 

 

His best game was when he missed a great chance and then got sent off. 

 

If that's your best game..... 

Yeah I get that.

But there was a player in there. I'm sure of it.

[Bazzas right boot]

3 minutes ago, OTT said:

Christian Nade

 

Argument: Nade was poorly utilised by Laszlo, Warnock had wanted to take him to Crystal Palace which says there was a bit of trust there. Not only that, but Warnock is still managing in the premier league which I think adds credibility. Nade wasn't a lone striker, its like playing Mclean upfront just now. Totally pointless. If he had a strike partner like Kevin Kyle had Stephen Elliot we'd likely have seen a much more effective player. 

 

I think his poor use by Laszlo sapped away motivation and thats why he ended up massively overweight. His form deteriorated because he wasn't being used correctly and his motivation followed. Had Laszlo been willing to play 2 upfront we'd have saw more goals. In fairness he wasn't signed by Laszlo  similarly to John Sutton not being signed by Paulo. Both had previously proved they were competent in their position before falling into a system they hadn't signed up for and being shown up (in that system!)

 

Into what he actually contributed. Transfermarket has him at 90 app 9 goals and 7 assists. I'd say for a striker that wasn't being used well that isn't the worst return. He's more effective than many of the strikers we've had in recent years (Sammon & Watt for example). I think you can actually see the impact Laszlo had with a spurt of goals early on (Falkirk, Hibs and Aberdeen)  in 2007 when he signed. Then Laszlo comes in and they dry up in 2008. 

 

Thats my best shot  

 

It's a good shot, so it is. 

 

Nade was a better player for Hearts when he left us! 

[Jlv2004]

16 minutes ago, To Be Frank said:

Tzolis. He was clearly too good a player for us and the rest of the players just weren’t on his wavelength. 

Aye right enough. 

[Guest Paul Allen]

Oshaniwa was an absolute fraud. Never a footballer in a million years. Unbelievable that he played in the WC 2014.

[Notts1874]

Some folk still not getting the point of the thread ????

[jumpship]

Stephen Elliott. Always gave 100% just never got the supply he needed to bang in the goals..

[Notts1874]

Just now, jumpship said:

Stephen Elliott. Always gave 100% just never got the supply he needed to bang in the goals..

You mean cup winning legend Stephen Elliott? Or did we have another I have forgotten about?

 

How is he indefensible?

[Jambos_1874]

9 minutes ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said:

 

Not sure about that tbh. Naismith improves the performances of those around him and links well with Uche, McLean and Haring.

 

He's definitely too good for us. As for whether the other players are on the same wavelength, that is debatable. I think he tends to be a step or two ahead of most if not all of our squad and his intelligent runs or passes aren't always seen or received. But his sheer quality raises the game of others around him; I can't say the same for Tzolis.

[smiler]

5 minutes ago, Paul Allen said:

Oshaniwa was an absolute fraud. Never a footballer in a million years. Unbelievable that he played in the WC 2014.

Normally I’d agree with that but then the odd game, for example, at Parkhead, the one where Walker scored for us early doors but we got pumped, I thought he had a decent game. Was getting good backing from the Hearts support as well, fwiw.

Edited December 28, 2018 by smiler

[Unknown user]

4 minutes ago, jumpship said:

Stephen Elliott. Always gave 100% just never got the supply he needed to bang in the goals..

[Jambos_1874]

I was going to try and defend Obua but just couldn't find anything. Would have a better chance with Kurskis....

[151]

Michael Stewart.

 

Thought he was actually pretty decent at what he did. Broke up the opposition attacks often and although tried too many, was capable of the odd hollywood ball. 

[jamboinglasgow]

6 minutes ago, Notts1874 said:

Some folk still not getting the point of the thread ????

 

Yup, didn't think it was that difficult. Kevin Twaddle was a great post. 

Edited December 28, 2018 by jamboinglasgow

[Notts1874]

2 minutes ago, Wham Bam Austin McCann said:

Michael Stewart.

 

Thought he was actually pretty decent at what he did. Broke up the opposition attacks often and although tried too many, was capable of the odd hollywood ball. 

The best player at falling on his backside in the tunnel. World beating

[Beast Boy]

1 minute ago, Jambos_1874 said:

 

He's definitely too good for us. As for whether the other players are on the same wavelength, that is debatable. I think he tends to be a step or two ahead of most if not all of our squad and his intelligent runs or passes aren't always seen or received. But his sheer quality raises the game of others around him; I can't say the same for Tzolis.

 

I think the biggest difference is that Naismith cajoles and encourages, as well as has ability. I think Naismith and McLean display a fantastic understanding when they play together. Some of Naismith’s passes and through balls were excellent v Hamilton and there was almost always a Hearts player getting on the end of them. Big Tziolis just kept on hitting balls to where a player should have been, even when there never was one. Not his fault, but Naismith doesn’t do that, he gets annoyed when folk aren’t in the right place at the right time and he does something about it.

 

Don’t agree with the too good for Hearts thing though. I happen to think we are a perfect fit. We have had quality players in the past and we will have again when he leaves.

[jamboinglasgow]

1 minute ago, Notts1874 said:

The best player at falling on his backside in the tunnel. World beating

 

Never seen a player better at pointing at his team-mates.

[smiler]

3 minutes ago, Notts1874 said:

The best player at falling on his backside in the tunnel. World beating

Indeed. And he blamed the tunnel floor as well.

[Notts1874]

1 minute ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

Never seen a player better at pointing at his team-mates.

Usually when the game had gone past him and was out of position.Takes some talent.

[Beast Boy]

12 minutes ago, Notts1874 said:

Some folk still not getting the point of the thread ????

 

6 minutes ago, jamboinglasgow said:

 

Yup, didn't think it was that difficult. Kevin Twaddle was a great post. 

 

Ah, okay. Fair enough chaps. See where you are coming from now. Not sure I can really do that. I can only stretch to defending players that others thought were shite, but I did not. ?

[Notts1874]

1 minute ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said:

 

 

Ah, okay. Fair enough chaps. See where you are coming from now. Not sure I can really do that. I can only stretch to defending players that others thought were shite, but I did not. ?

I wasn't referring to you?

[amadjambo]

Gary Glen.

 

Had fantastic ability and could score goals. Confidence was destroyed by Csaba and he never recovered. His goal at ER is a great Derby moment. Also mind him rattling the bar V Hibs at home from about 35 yards.

[jamboinglasgow]

2 minutes ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said:

 

 

Ah, okay. Fair enough chaps. See where you are coming from now. Not sure I can really do that. I can only stretch to defending players that others thought were shite, but I did not. ?

 

To be fair, its open to how you want to do it, either defend them seriously or jokingly.

[Alex Kintner]

Hjalmar Thorarinnsson. Fantastic striker and would have scored bucketloads for us if it wasn’t for the shirt issue. Apprently we made him wear an XXXL shirt so we could fit his name on the back but every time he built up any speed the wind got caught in his shirt and slowed him to the speed of a decrepit tortoise.

[Jambos_1874]

3 minutes ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said:

 

I think the biggest difference is that Naismith cajoles and encourages, as well as has ability. I think Naismith and McLean display a fantastic understanding when they play together. Some of Naismith’s passes and through balls were excellent v Hamilton and there was almost always a Hearts player getting on the end of them. Big Tziolis just kept on hitting balls to where a player should have been, even when there never was one. Not his fault, but Naismith doesn’t do that, he gets annoyed when folk aren’t in the right place at the right time and he does something about it.

 

Don’t agree with the too good for Hearts thing though. I happen to think we are a perfect fit. We have had quality players in the past and we will have again when he leaves.

 

I agree with all of that bar your last paragraph, although I see where you are coming from. The reality is that he currently earns a wage which is well above what we can pay and probably above what even Celtic can pay, which suggests that he is too good for us (although I hate saying that). That's a product of the league he played in and he's maybe at a point in his career where Hearts is a perfect fit but I have no doubt he could still do a job at a higher level. 

[Jambos_1874]

2 minutes ago, amadjambo said:

Gary Glen.

 

Had fantastic ability and could score goals. Confidence was destroyed by Csaba and he never recovered. His goal at ER is a great Derby moment. Also mind him rattling the bar V Hibs at home from about 35 yards.

 

Agreed. Was on the lazy side though and also looked out of shape.