Injuries!

[Don Dan]

Folk are, as usual clambering for heads to roll. Levein out they cry. Budge get rid! 

However when you take a step back and look logically at what’s happened to our team of first choice players Blind Pew can see that we are struggling to cope with an injury list that would cripple most teams. It’s certainly crippled us!

I’m wondering why we have such a long list, bad luck, over training, wrong training? Who knows but when you look at other teams for whatever reason none seem to suffering like we are. 

We are not in a position to have cover for all positions where injury has occurred  especially matching the quality that would make missing say Souttar or Naismith less noticeable. 

Last night our defence crumbled like Long John Silver with wood worm and is it any wonder when we are missing Dunne (brought in as cover) Soapy and now Dikamona and add in Berra just returned from a long term injury and would not be 100% match fit despite his obvious class. 

Smith has done well under the circumstances and Hughes despite his vast experience has seen better days. 

Up front we’ve lost Uthchy for months now who gives our team a whole new dimension and the opposing defenders lots to worry about. Wighton and Clare aren’t ready yet and may never be and leaves us with only one aging forward who is not really a lone striker. 

Going back to why so many injuries? If anyone has an answer I’d and I’m sure the Club would love to hear it. 

[Famous 1874]

Can only use the injuries ‘excuse’ in the bigger games when it comes down to player vs player quality. However, we signed 18 players in the summer and should be comfortably beating the likes of Livi and St Mirren, with or without our best players. Not good enough tonight and think we got the feeling that the club is too big for a few of those playing last night. 

[Nookie Bear]

Elephant in the room suggests nobody has mentioned it but it’s all we ******* talk about in here. 

 

Maybe the players have started themselves to believe they cannot play without Naismith , Souttar and Uche?

[EastSideJambo]

FFS 

[frankblack]

2 minutes ago, Famous 1874 said:

Can only use the injuries ‘excuse’ in the bigger games when it comes down to player vs player quality. However, we signed 18 players in the summer and should be comfortably beating the likes of Livi and St Mirren, with or without our best players. Not good enough tonight and think we got the feeling that the club is too big for a few of those playing last night. 

 

We had a ridiculously small squad last season and repeatedly had to throw in unready 16 and 17 year olds.  The 18 players were a handful of first team then squad players.

[EastSideJambo]

10 minutes ago, Famous 1874 said:

Can only use the injuries ‘excuse’ in the bigger games when it comes down to player vs player quality. However, we signed 18 players in the summer and should be comfortably beating the likes of Livi and St Mirren, with or without our best players. Not good enough tonight and think we got the feeling that the club is too big for a few of those playing last night. 

Absolutely correct. I find it staggering anyone fails to see this. 

 

He's signed ****ing garbage that's fallen in Paisley and been humiliated last night 

 

He's a relict 

[Don Dan]

4 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

Elephant in the room suggests nobody has mentioned it but it’s all we ******* talk about in here. 

 

Maybe the players have started themselves to believe they cannot play without Naismith , Souttar and Uche?

 

Not when you read the many posts last night the injury list was the least amongst the mainly Levein is the problem posts. 

[merrymac]

2 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

Elephant in the room suggests nobody has mentioned it but it’s all we ******* talk about in here. 

 

Maybe the players have started themselves to believe they cannot play without Naismith , Souttar and Uche?

Spot on, said that last night. Every time the manager/players speak in the press its all about injuries and the players missing.

Think the team are believing it themselves.

You cant tell me that the players we have signed as squad players are not good enough to take care of the lower half teams.

Attitude is the problem not ability.

[Don Dan]

1 minute ago, EastSideJambo said:

Absolutely correct. I find it staggering anyone fails to see this. 

 

He's signed ****ing garbage that's fallen in Paisley and been humiliated last night 

 

He's a relict 

 

I didn’t expect you to say anything else. 

[Boab]

It's an excuse...nothing more.

Line up each of our players against their St Mirren and Livi equivalents and try and tell me any of those opponents are better players.

They're not.....not one of them.

They chucked it last night. Plain and simple. They were dreadul against St Mirren also. 

[kila]

Having to rely upon Hughes was what done it. Was easy peasy for Livi to just run past him, or take a shot when Hughes was blocking our keeper.

 

Hughes should never have been on the bench. Godinho instead and Smith to CB.

[Nookie Bear]

4 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

Not when you read the many posts last night the injury list was the least amongst the mainly Levein is the problem posts. 

 

Because we can excuse injuries, but we can never tolerate chucking the towel in. 

[DG_HMFC]

Last night had nothing to do with injuries. 

 

The players have downed tools. Frightening!

[Mr Elwood P]

17 minutes ago, Famous 1874 said:

Can only use the injuries ‘excuse’ in the bigger games when it comes down to player vs player quality. However, we signed 18 players in the summer and should be comfortably beating the likes of Livi and St Mirren, with or without our best players. Not good enough tonight and think we got the feeling that the club is too big for a few of those playing last night. 

 

You are aware that Hearts, Celtic, Rangers and Hibs have taken a grand total of one point and scored a grand total of one goal at the Tony Macaroni? The folk who say we should be comfortably beating a Livingston side that a team with four times and team with ten times our budget couldn’t don’t seem to have much context to their argument. Why should an injury ravaged Hearts team missing our two best strikers (three if you include the Lafferty position that Vanacek will fill) and missing 3 of our top 4 centre backs be winning? No logic to the argument at all. Complete freak result last night. We hobble into the winter break and come back with a full complement of players next year. 

[Anderson5]

We’ve signed 31 players since summer of 2017. 

 

We’ve signed over 60 players since we were promoted in the summer of 2015. 

 

And yet we fall to pieces when a loan signing (on £40k a week) can’t play. 

 

Injuries and suspensions are why teams build squads and dont just have 11 players ontheir books. We’ve got the biggest squad in scottish football yet can’t cope when we lose a player that isn’t actually ours. 

[Alma Matters]

Injuries have no doubt cost us but it’s the manner of defeats that are very concerning. Leeds United have had numerous injuries to main players and are second in the league. There is a way to manage, as long as the right person is in charge. 

[Don Dan]

Just now, Nookie Bear said:

 

Because we can excuse injuries, but we can never tolerate chucking the towel in. 

 

I did say we crumbled. But no one can deny that injuries have devastated the team. No team can sustain that level of injuries unless you’ve got pots of money like Celtic. I’ve named a few players that are first team picks week in week out if they were not injured. We’ve also had injuries to Cochrane  and the other young lad who’s name escapes for the moment who was looking very good at right back. 

Weve also sent out players on loan who in these circumstances would be in the team. Unfortunately I don’t think we can recall them. Instead we’ve got mediocre player that are of the same level that Livvie and St Mirren field. 

[merrymac]

2 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

I did say we crumbled. But no one can deny that injuries have devastated the team. No team can sustain that level of injuries unless you’ve got pots of money like Celtic. I’ve named a few players that are first team picks week in week out if they were not injured. We’ve also had injuries to Cochrane  and the other young lad who’s name escapes for the moment who was looking very good at right back. 

Weve also sent out players on loan who in these circumstances would be in the team. Unfortunately I don’t think we can recall them. Instead we’ve got mediocre player that are of the same level that Livvie and St Mirren field. 

Genuine question- Why are we signing players (and probably paying them far higher wages) that are "the same level as Livy and St Mirren"?

And why did we send out on loan players that appear to be as good as the ones signed?

[Don Dan]

As I thought people would in the most part ignore the question in my OP. 

Why do we have so many injuries and to key players? What is going wrong and is it something that needs looked at by dare I say experts?

Edited December 15, 2018 by Dannie Boy

[Don Dan]

5 minutes ago, merrymac said:

Genuine question- Why are we signing players (and probably paying them far higher wages) that are "the same level as Livy and St Mirren"?

And why did we send out on loan players that appear to be as good as the ones signed?

 

Probably because we never envisaged having such a horrendous injury list. I’ve no idea how much we are playing players at Livvie, St Mirren or Hearts for that matter. My guess would only be speculation at best.

Edited December 15, 2018 by Dannie Boy

[Gizmo]

Just now, Dannie Boy said:

As I thought people would in the most part ignore the question in my OP. 

Why are we have so many injuries and to key players? What is going wrong and is it something that needs looked at by dare I say experts?

 

We would need a lot of information on the types of injuries to assess if they could be training based.

Or if we play players with niggles, with more risk involved, than other clubs.

I honestly don't know if we can ever assess this. We have been brutally unfortunate, that is not questionable. Whether it is of our own making, can't really say.

 But a cannier manager might have told the fringe players to grab the opportunity etc whilst it was on offer. Levein, instead, plays horses for course and, of late, most of them should be melted down for glue. 

[merrymac]

2 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

Probably because we never envisaged having such a horrendous injury list. I’ve no idea how much we are playing players at Livvie, St Mirren or Hearts for that matter. My guess would only be speculation at best.

Are you a politician?

[fabienleclerq]

If you take the four best players out of any team then they will struggle.

 

Last night was nothing to do with injuries. Levein got his tactics wrong, pumping long balls all first half at a team who love to defend. We had no guile or creativity again, the lack of effort and downing of tools is extremely worrying.

[jambonian]

19 minutes ago, DG_HMFC said:

Last night had nothing to do with injuries. 

 

The players have downed tools. Frightening!

Been happening since 2015. Look decent when they arrive then look like lost souls after a few months. Coaching is to blame. Whether it's Levein, Cathro or Neilson. The training must be poor, other teams always look sharper and fitter.

[Don Dan]

So no answers as to the reason we have a very long injury list and what can or could be done about preventing it being as big in future. 

I didn’t want a Levein or player bad thread but I should have known better. 

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

1 minute ago, jambonian said:

Been happening since 2015. Look decent when they arrive then look like lost souls after a few months. Coaching is to blame. Whether it's Levein, Cathro or Neilson. The training must be poor, other teams always look sharper and fitter.

First few months players are a surprise coming from other leagues. You lose that element in Scotland quickly and things become harder

[merrymac]

Just now, Dannie Boy said:

So no answers as to the reason we have a very long injury list and what can or could be done about preventing it being as big in future. 

I didn’t want a Levein or player bad thread but I should have known better. 

Sorry but do we not pay professional people to manage that sort of thing?

Obviously not doing a very good job from your inference.

[Don Dan]

1 minute ago, merrymac said:

Sorry but do we not pay professional people to manage that sort of thing?

Obviously not doing a very good job from your inference.

 

Indeed, and that’s why I raised the issue. There are plenty threads to bash Levein and the players on the go but this one is about the injury list. 

[jambonian]

4 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

So no answers as to the reason we have a very long injury list and what can or could be done about preventing it being as big in future. 

I didn’t want a Levein or player bad thread but I should have known better. 

How can we possibly know why we have such bad injuries!? Ask the coaching staff. Is their training regime poor is what i'd be asking. Are the injury problems connected with the way they are coached?

[merrymac]

1 minute ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

Indeed, and that’s why I raised the issue. There are plenty threads to bash Levein and the players on the go but this one is about the injury list. 

So what would you suggest?

[EastSideJambo]

36 minutes ago, Barack said:

Sure folk are just starting threads that provide a modicum of sense in them, just to see Spencer biting.

 

All about balance.

 

You and others referring to someone who isn't present on a thread does little to detract from the reality of this shit show 

 

Sorry if that doesn't sit well 

[Anderson5]

Have we had any more injuries than any other teams?

 

Celtic have missed Brown, Ntcham, Edouard, Griffiths and Boyata for large periods this season. 

 

Rangers have missed Murphy, Dorrans, Arfield and Rossiter for large periods this season. 

 

Aberdeen have missed McKenna, Devlin, GMS, Hoban, Reynolds, Wright and Wilson for large periods this season. 

 

Hibs have missed Hanlon, Marciano, Gray, Boyle, Maclaren and Kamberi for large periods this season. 

[Don Dan]

6 minutes ago, merrymac said:

So what would you suggest?

 

I would be bringing in an outside agency, body expert to look at the whole set up. See if we are doing it right, is the set up right etc.

if it’s deemed everything is right and it’s just bad luck then at least you can say you’ve look at it and ruled it out.

[merrymac]

3 minutes ago, Anderson5 said:

Have we had any more injuries than any other teams?

 

Celtic have missed Brown, Ntcham, Edouard, Griffiths and Boyata for large periods this season. 

 

Rangers have missed Murphy, Dorrans, Arfield and Rossiter for large periods this season. 

 

Aberdeen have missed McKenna, Devlin, GMS, Hoban, Reynolds, Wright and Wilson for large periods this season. 

 

Hibs have missed Hanlon, Marciano, Gray, Boyle, Maclaren and Kamberi for large periods this season. 

Think you should ask Dannie Boy he doesnt seem to think so

[Don Dan]

5 minutes ago, Anderson5 said:

Have we had any more injuries than any other teams?

 

Celtic have missed Brown, Ntcham, Edouard, Griffiths and Boyata for large periods this season. 

 

Rangers have missed Murphy, Dorrans, Arfield and Rossiter for large periods this season. 

 

Aberdeen have missed McKenna, Devlin, GMS, Hoban, Reynolds, Wright and Wilson for large periods this season. 

 

Hibs have missed Hanlon, Marciano, Gray, Boyle, Maclaren and Kamberi for large periods this season. 

 

Both Aberdeen and Hibs have obviously struggled the erse cheeks just buy their way out of trouble (even if one can’t afford to do it)

Edited December 15, 2018 by Dannie Boy

[soonbe110]

52 minutes ago, EastSideJambo said:

Absolutely correct. I find it staggering anyone fails to see this. 

 

He's signed ****ing garbage that's fallen in Paisley and been humiliated last night 

 

He's a relict 

Good scrabble word  The rest is the usual horsesh*t from you. 

[merrymac]

1 minute ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

I would be bringing in an outside agency, body expert to look at the whole set up. See if we are doing it right, is the set up right etc.

if it’s deemed everything is right and it’s just bad luck then at least you can say you’ve look at it and ruled it out.

Seems the obvious answer. Contact the club with your suggestion and hopefully sort out this injury crisis for good.

[Don Dan]

Just now, merrymac said:

Seems the obvious answer. Contact the club with your suggestion and hopefully sort out this injury crisis for good.

 

Im sure they’d  listen ?

[davemclaren]

54 minutes ago, Boab said:

It's an excuse...nothing more.

Line up each of our players against their St Mirren and Livi equivalents and try and tell me any of those opponents are better players.

They're not.....not one of them.

They chucked it last night. Plain and simple. They were dreadul against St Mirren also. 

We should be capable of better against St Mirren and Livi with the players we have. Very disappointing. 

[cb1874]

48 minutes ago, Anderson5 said:

We’ve signed 31 players since summer of 2017. 

 

We’ve signed over 60 players since we were promoted in the summer of 2015. 

 

And yet we fall to pieces when a loan signing (on £40k a week) can’t play. 

 

Injuries and suspensions are why teams build squads and dont just have 11 players ontheir books. We’ve got the biggest squad in scottish football yet can’t cope when we lose a player that isn’t actually ours. 

No we don’t. We may have signed something like 19 players last summer but we also moved on 18. We have added quality throughout but  we don’t yet have depth.  Clevid, Dunne and Souttar missing and we’re on the bones of our arse, even with Berra back. Smith can go to CB but that means putting in Godinho, who’s also just returning from injury. Add in to that...Naismith and Uche, and we have nothing to offer up front. 

Its no surprise we’re struggling. 

The unacceptable part last night was the capitulation.

Edited December 15, 2018 by cb1874

[merrymac]

Just now, Dannie Boy said:

 

Im sure they’d  listen ?

 

3 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

Both Aberdeen and Hibs have obviously struggled the erse cheeks just buy their way out of trouble (even if one can’t afford to do it)

Aberdeen got to a Cup final and will be above us if they win their games in hand . Hibs were always going to struggle even with no injuries.

So why did we sign these players and send promising youngsters out loan? Injuries are always a possibility and should be factored in to the squad make up. Why sign players who are not able to step up when required?

[soonbe110]

1 hour ago, Dannie Boy said:

Folk are, as usual clambering for heads to roll. Levein out they cry. Budge get rid! 

However when you take a step back and look logically at what’s happened to our team of first choice players Blind Pew can see that we are struggling to cope with an injury list that would cripple most teams. It’s certainly crippled us!

I’m wondering why we have such a long list, bad luck, over training, wrong training? Who knows but when you look at other teams for whatever reason none seem to suffering like we are. 

We are not in a position to have cover for all positions where injury has occurred  especially matching the quality that would make missing say Souttar or Naismith less noticeable. 

Last night our defence crumbled like Long John Silver with wood worm and is it any wonder when we are missing Dunne (brought in as cover) Soapy and now Dikamona and add in Berra just returned from a long term injury and would not be 100% match fit despite his obvious class. 

Smith has done well under the circumstances and Hughes despite his vast experience has seen better days. 

Up front we’ve lost Uthchy for months now who gives our team a whole new dimension and the opposing defenders lots to worry about. Wighton and Clare aren’t ready yet and may never be and leaves us with only one aging forward who is not really a lone striker. 

Going back to why so many injuries? If anyone has an answer I’d and I’m sure the Club would love to hear it. 

I have a foot in both camps. There’s been some disappointing performances recently that injuries shouldnt really have impacted on a one-off basis eg Paisley. Injuries though have been a killer. Early season form and season planning was based on a backbone of Berra, Souttar, Naismith and Ikpeazu. Substitute Dunne for Berra in game 2. By the time the winter break comes along those five will have missed nearly 60 games between them due to injury. Add in Harings hernia issue and a keeper who started strongly and has recently become our very own Zibi and there you have it for me. Rest of the players are squad players and have been decent but not game-changers. Wighton and Clare both signed for the future and both recovering from long-term injuries and being played,  through necessity, before they were ready.  Given all that I’m not sure we could have expected much more. In fact its probably an over -achievement to have been top of the league for three months. 

For me it’s now a case of hopefully picking up 5 or 6 points before the break then re-grouping. Still lots to play for this season and if the squad is fully fit by late January a lot to look forward to. 

[FERRY HEARTS]

26 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

Indeed, and that’s why I raised the issue. There are plenty threads to bash Levein and the players on the go but this one is about the injury list. 

Players are prone to injury in a high contact sport. All other clubs will have these problems and have to rotate staff 

Unfortunately to many of our supporters are relying and hoping for a quick fix when our injured party return which IMO won’t happen ( hope I’m wrong )

The other teams in the league have now sussed onto our predictable play 

[graygo]

29 minutes ago, Anderson5 said:

Have we had any more injuries than any other teams?

 

Celtic have missed Brown, Ntcham, Edouard, Griffiths and Boyata for large periods this season. 

 

Rangers have missed Murphy, Dorrans, Arfield and Rossiter for large periods this season. 

 

Aberdeen have missed McKenna, Devlin, GMS, Hoban, Reynolds, Wright and Wilson for large periods this season. 

 

Hibs have missed Hanlon, Marciano, Gray, Boyle, Maclaren and Kamberi for large periods this season. 

 

Are any of those teams doing better or even as well as expected?

 

I would say they have all dropped more points than expected.

[Anderson5]

2 minutes ago, graygo said:

 

Are any of those teams doing better or even as well as expected?

 

I would say they have all dropped more points than expected.

 

You are probably right. I guess my point is that their management team (and supporters to a degree) don’t seem to be making such a big deal out of it. 

 

Losers will always be able to justify failure.  It just seems too easy for Levein and co. to put our form and performances for the past 2 months down to external circumstances. 

[Don Dan]

23 minutes ago, merrymac said:

 

Aberdeen got to a Cup final and will be above us if they win their games in hand . Hibs were always going to struggle even with no injuries.

So why did we sign these players and send promising youngsters out loan? Injuries are always a possibility and should be factored in to the squad make up. Why sign players who are not able to step up when required?

 

Normally only a few players get injured and normally not out for months and months. You should know the answer to the loan players.

[EastSideJambo]

28 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Good scrabble word  The rest is the usual horsesh*t from you. 

Which bits? We haven't been humiliated in Paisley and Livingston? Or he hasn't largely signed a pile of shite? 

 

We're in a mess. Posters getting all agitated and uptight with fellow posters really fails to address the reality of our difficulties 

 

We are going nowhere under this management structure. We need change or we're just going to drift further into mediocrity under him. He looks flummoxed pre and post match these days 

 

His wage bill is being augmented to the tune of £1M pa and it's still ****ing chronic!! 

[graygo]

1 minute ago, Anderson5 said:

 

You are probably right. I guess my point is that their management team (and supporters to a degree) don’t seem to be making such a big deal out of it. 

 

Losers will always be able to justify failure.  It just seems too easy for Levein and co. to put our form and performances for the past 2 months down to external circumstances. 

 

I think it's much simpler than that, a lot of our supporters think that paying £10 or whatever a month gives them more of a say than it really does.

 

Last night was shite but some of the reaction to it is ridiculous.

 

What would you put our recent form down to, what has changed in the past 2 months?

[skinnybob72]

The injuries are obviously not helping us but our form since Naismith limped off has been relegation stuff. Are we saying that without our 4 main players we have a squad that is worse than Dundee, Hamilton & St Mirren? 

[Don Dan]

2 minutes ago, skinnybob72 said:

The injuries are obviously not helping us but our form since Naismith limped off has been relegation stuff. Are we saying that without our 4 main players we have a squad that is worse than Dundee, Hamilton & St Mirren? 

 

It would appear so.