trotter Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Coming up on 30 years. Ignoring the story behind it for a second, the way BBC have put this page together is brilliant. Keep scrolling down. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/Lockerbie_Scotland_Pan_Am_flight_103 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William H. Bonney Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Great read. My mum was a nurse and was sent down to Lockerbie to assist. My dad was a journalist and spent a year in the Hague covering the trial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Салатные палочки Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Very good article. Not much more that can be added that hasn't been read or seen before. Quite unbelievable that it's been thirty years. I still remember seeing the footage in the morning while eating my breakfast and then my teacher at school being really upset. Horrible, unthinkable tragedy. Thankfully, although it will still hurt greatly for a number of the residents of that town, they have managed to move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 A good article but also very moving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamhammer Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 I know a few folk who were part of the emergency services response. It sounds utterly hellish in the truest sense of the word. I can't imagine how they dealt with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 1 hour ago, The Real Maroonblood said: A good article but also very moving. Very moving indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 (edited) Excellent read there. I used to work with a lad who came from there, he had a big scrapbook he kept of the time with articles, photos etc it was quite similar reading some of that. Tragic, I think a plane crash has to be one of my biggest fears tbh. You don’t belong up there in a tin can frankly, I always like when my plane touches down. Bit at the bottom with some people still thinking it was the Libyans and Megrahi in particular. I don’t think for one minute it was Megrahi or Gaddafi who had anything to do with it. I can’t remember where I read it now but sure the Americans knew it was the Syrians but Gaddafi became the patsy and took the rap in enchange for lifting of Libyan sanctions. The release of Megrahi was even a bit of a stitch up for the Scottish government IIRC. Positive I read Kenny MacAskill saying the Americans knew and were even all for the release but in public made out they weren’t. Edited December 13, 2018 by jack D and coke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 24 minutes ago, jack D and coke said: Excellent read there. I used to work with a lad who came from there, he had a big scrapbook he kept of the time with articles, photos etc it was quite similar reading some of that. Tragic, I think a plane crash has to be one of my biggest fears tbh. You don’t belong up there in a tin can frankly, I always like when my plane touches down. Bit at the bottom with some people still thinking it was the Libyans and Megrahi in particular. I don’t think for one minute it was Megrahi or Gaddafi who had anything to do with it. I can’t remember where I read it now but sure the Americans knew it was the Syrians but Gaddafi became the patsy and took the rap in enchange for lifting of Libyan sanctions. The release of Megrahi was even a bit of a stitch up for the Scottish government IIRC. Positive I read Kenny MacAskill saying the Americans knew and were even all for the release but in public made out they weren’t. Revenge for the Iranian passenger jet shot down by the Americans remains the most credible theory. Though who actually did it is more complicated given different, often strange alliances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said: Revenge for the Iranian passenger jet shot down by the Americans remains the most credible theory. Though who actually did it is more complicated given different, often strange alliances. Yeah that was a credible theory now you mention that. Wish I could remember where I read the Syrian one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, jack D and coke said: Yeah that was a credible theory now you mention that. Wish I could remember where I read the Syrian one. Possible Syrian link mentioned a few times https://www.channel4.com/news/lockerbie-bombing-libya-palestine-cia-murder-thatcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said: Possible Syrian link mentioned a few times https://www.channel4.com/news/lockerbie-bombing-libya-palestine-cia-murder-thatcher Yeah that’s along the lines of what I read. Who knows, certainly don’t think the Libyans we’re responsible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 7 hours ago, trotter said: Coming up on 30 years. Ignoring the story behind it for a second, the way BBC have put this page together is brilliant. Keep scrolling down. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/Lockerbie_Scotland_Pan_Am_flight_103 That is excellent. Really well done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brighton Jambo Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 The strangest thing just happened, as I read that (excellent by the way) someone in my house started chopping a shed load of onions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boof Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 Until today, I never knew that PA103 from Frankfurt to Detroit actually normally went Frankfurt-London-New York-Detroit. Leg 1 was on a 727, only switching to the doomed 747 at Heathrow. Looking at the LHR-JFK great circle route - Lockerbie's miles off it. Presume weather or something pushed 103 further north? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 This one of those events that doesn't feel real to me because of my age. Like I can't properly understand how huge an event this must have been. I was thinking how there are people now legal age to drink who'll feel the same about 9/11. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 1 hour ago, AlphonseCapone said: This one of those events that doesn't feel real to me because of my age. Like I can't properly understand how huge an event this must have been. I was thinking how there are people now legal age to drink who'll feel the same about 9/11. Take my word for it as the years go on incidents that you think will never be topped usually are and you become somewhat inured to the tragedies and c ruelties of nature and man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Brown Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 3 hours ago, Boof said: Until today, I never knew that PA103 from Frankfurt to Detroit actually normally went Frankfurt-London-New York-Detroit. Leg 1 was on a 727, only switching to the doomed 747 at Heathrow. Looking at the LHR-JFK great circle route - Lockerbie's miles off it. Presume weather or something pushed 103 further north? You got a link Boof? From memory, I could be wrong. But the plane was late in taking off, 49 mins??. If on time it would have downed over the Atlantic. All the pilaver of the trial and imprisonment would not have been Scotlans' issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 14 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said: You got a link Boof? From memory, I could be wrong. But the plane was late in taking off, 49 mins??. If on time it would have downed over the Atlantic. All the pilaver of the trial and imprisonment would not have been Scotlans' issue. I think you are correct, the bomb was meant to explode out at sea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smack Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 3 hours ago, Boof said: Until today, I never knew that PA103 from Frankfurt to Detroit actually normally went Frankfurt-London-New York-Detroit. Leg 1 was on a 727, only switching to the doomed 747 at Heathrow. Looking at the LHR-JFK great circle route - Lockerbie's miles off it. Presume weather or something pushed 103 further north? There was a documentary on recently, Channel 4 or 5. The route was to do with the most favourable winds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 Wasn't there something about South African diplomats who were booked on the flight but were warned by their embassy not to get on it, they got another flight instead, needless to say they all survived. Sure there was something like that happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambothump Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 With everything that has been recoded and reported upon, it is unlikely that anyone on this board is going to come up with a provenance view of the events that night ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pans Jambo Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said: Wasn't there something about South African diplomats who were booked on the flight but were warned by their embassy not to get on it, they got another flight instead, needless to say they all survived. Sure there was something like that happened. I think there were all sorts of stories like this. Some of which included some quite famous people who decided against getting on the flight. For the life of me I cant remember who 😩 Edit: The Four Tops, Kim Katrall and John Lyndon were all meant to be on this flight but changed their minds for one reason or another. Very Lucky. Edited September 17, 2019 by Pans Jambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 11 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said: I think there were all sorts of stories like this. Some of which included some quite famous people who decided against getting on the flight. For the life of me I cant remember who 😩 Edit: The Four Tops, Kim Katrall and John Lyndon were all meant to be on this flight but changed their minds for one reason or another. Very Lucky. And Mats Wilander, who was the No.1 Tennis player at the time. Found something about the SA group. https://www.iol.co.za/ios/behindthenews/pik-bothas-lockerbie-mystery-17617534 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 27 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said: Wasn't there something about South African diplomats who were booked on the flight but were warned by their embassy not to get on it, they got another flight instead, needless to say they all survived. Sure there was something like that happened. There was a warning received https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk/2000/feb/27/lockerbie.life1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 On 13/12/2018 at 03:58, trotter said: Coming up on 30 years. Ignoring the story behind it for a second, the way BBC have put this page together is brilliant. Keep scrolling down. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-sh/Lockerbie_Scotland_Pan_Am_flight_103 Great link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Tommy Brown said: You got a link Boof? From memory, I could be wrong. But the plane was late in taking off, 49 mins??. If on time it would have downed over the Atlantic. All the pilaver of the trial and imprisonment would not have been Scotlans' issue. Plane lifted off 25 minutes 'late' though this is open to interpretation I.e. 6pm slot doesn't mean plane has to lift off at 6pm exactly. Bomb was timed to go off 38 minutes into flight which would have been over land. But who knows. All sorts of possibilities. Bombers might have set timer wrongly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boof Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Tommy Brown said: You got a link Boof? From memory, I could be wrong. But the plane was late in taking off, 49 mins??. If on time it would have downed over the Atlantic. All the pilaver of the trial and imprisonment would not have been Scotlans' issue. All my info has just come from a Google search for pan am 103 and the subsequent looking at the Wikipedia page. My interest was prompted because I was in an English class today where they were studying Hotel room, 12th floor and the poem references the "Pan PanAm skyscraper". The teacher stated that Pan Am had gone bust in the 80s and for some reason the number 103 came to my mind. Following the links made me realise that Pan Am 103 remains in my subconscious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 I see this is back in the news again today. Here is a great documentary that exposes what the UK victims group are saying. https://archive.org/details/The-Maltese-Double-Cross Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Салатные палочки Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 52 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said: I see this is back in the news again today. Here is a great documentary that exposes what the UK victims group are saying. https://archive.org/details/The-Maltese-Double-Cross I remember watching that when it was on originally but although I have a keen interest in aviation and air disasters, I struggled to follow it. I'll watch it again at some point this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Mackerel Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 17 minutes ago, Salad Fingers said: I remember watching that when it was on originally but although I have a keen interest in aviation and air disasters, I struggled to follow it. I'll watch it again at some point this weekend. Well worth a couple of hours of your time pal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 Jim Swire is 84 now. I doubt it, but I hope he lives long enough for the truth to out. When state sponsored terrorism met state sponsored demands to put someone, anyone in jail for an autrocity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milky_26 Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, DETTY29 said: Jim Swire is 84 now. I doubt it, but I hope he lives long enough for the truth to out. When state sponsored terrorism met state sponsored demands to put someone, anyone in jail for an autrocity. I have the utmost respect for Jim Swire, lost his daughter but has always kept campaigning/working to get the truth of what actually happened and to get justice for those who died and their families all while maintaining his dignity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felix Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 On 13/12/2018 at 11:16, jack D and coke said: Yeah that’s along the lines of what I read. Who knows, certainly don’t think the Libyans we’re responsible. Don't think so either, but seems anotther Libyan is to be charged : - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-55337459: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Салатные палочки Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 1 hour ago, milky_26 said: I have the utmost respect for Jim Swire, lost his daughter but has always kept campaigning/working to get the truth of what actually happened and to get justice for those who died and their families all while maintaining his dignity Agreed. Always comes across as a complete gentleman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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