Scottish budget

[Brighton Jambo]

1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

Means testing costs more than free prescriptions. As for waiting times, yes they've been missed, but they're held to a high standard.

Not high enough if year on year people have to pay more tax for the privilege.  

[Hasselhoff]

 double post

Edited December 13, 2018 by Hasselhoff

[Hasselhoff]

Triple post

Edited December 13, 2018 by Hasselhoff

[Hasselhoff]

8 hours ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Really? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-40494488

 

Plus free prescriptions, free dental checkups, along with free tuition fees for Scottish students.

 

 

 

So young graduates from university, Scottish are encouraged to leave Scotland and work somewhere where they get to keep more of the money they earn. They have no need for free prescriptions as they are young, no kids who need uni education for another 30 years, don't need old age care for short 60 years. Come back when you have kids who want to go to you

Uni and get it paid for. Or come back once you are retired and get the care. 

 

People say the US is a great place to go and work as long as you are young and healthy. Salaries are double what we have here for the same job and things are cheaper like petrol etc. Most companies will give you and family medical insurance and the only risk is losing your job and beginning ill (and guns, lots of guns). 

 

No wonder so many young people emigrate. 

[maroongoals]

3 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Means testing costs more than free prescriptions. As for waiting times, yes they've been missed, but they're held to a high standard.

Thats great to hear, My wife is on the emergency list for a procedure , she has been on the list for 6 months and I came out of hospital in Feb to be told i would be called back in 2 weeks still waiting.Not to worry the standards high eh.

Edited December 13, 2018 by maroongoals

[Boab1874]

I earn close to £40,000 and my wife has to work.Will not be returning to Scotland any time soon

[Boab1874]

So I will get free prescriptions.Pay upfront £120 a year.So that leaves £1380

[Ray Gin]

2 hours ago, Hasselhoff said:

 

 

So young graduates from university, Scottish are encouraged to leave Scotland and work somewhere where they get to keep more of the money they earn. They have no need for free prescriptions as they are young, no kids who need uni education for another 30 years, don't need old age care for short 60 years. Come back when you have kids who want to go to you

Uni and get it paid for. Or come back once you are retired and get the care. 

 

People say the US is a great place to go and work as long as you are young and healthy. Salaries are double what we have here for the same job and things are cheaper like petrol etc. Most companies will give you and family medical insurance and the only risk is losing your job and beginning ill (and guns, lots of guns). 

 

No wonder so many young people emigrate. 

 

Nobody is encouraging young Scottish students to leave. How many University graduates do you reckon stroll out and pick up £50k a year jobs?

 

Scotland's emigration was 56,613 up until June last year. That's only around 1.1% of the population.

[Hasselhoff]

1 minute ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Nobody is encouraging young Scottish students to leave. How many University graduates do you reckon stroll out and pick up £50k a year jobs?

 

Scotland's emigration was 56,613 up until June last year. That's only around 1.1% of the population.

 

In sectors like IT, a lot actually. If you're smart, driven and ambitious, of course you can come out of uni and get a well paid job £50k+

[Ray Gin]

 

2 hours ago, maroongoals said:

Thats great to hear, My wife is on the emergency list for a procedure , she has been on the list for 6 months and I came out of hospital in Feb to be told i would be called back in 2 weeks still waiting.Not to worry the standards high eh.

 

Good thing you stay in Scotland and not elsewhere in the UK, the waiting times would be even longer.

 

[Ray Gin]

Just now, Hasselhoff said:

 

In sectors like IT, a lot actually. If you're smart, driven and ambitious, of course you can come out of uni and get a well paid job £50k+

 

Your 'a lot' is more like 'a select few'. The average UK graduate wage is around £23k.

 

[Hasselhoff]

1 minute ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Your 'a lot' is more like 'a select few'. The average UK graduate wage is around £23k.

 

 

Working at the big 4 as a graduate can get you £26k. They have a very fast career progression path and so you'd be up at £50k in time if you can last it out. When you take a new job,  you don't base your living choices on what your salary is at that point in time but the potential for your salary to grow. If someone graduates to be a doctor, their initial pay may be low but they know they will be a high tax band earner before long. With no kids and hopefully healthy they would be punished for staying in Scotland. 

 

 

[Pans Jambo]

15 hours ago, Captain Sausage said:

One of the reasons my wife and I left Scotland. 

 

Sick of the weather and the constant shafting of the middle class. 

 

England might not be Ibiza, but financially we are better off, despite a more expensive house!

I'm calling pish on that one unless you live in a poor area of the North East.

 

Continual shafting? Aye right. 

 

I work for an English company so I pay more thax than my colleagues on the same salary.

 

41% rate starts at what? £43,500 or so. Is it really that big a deal? The average salary nowadays is around £27K.

 

If anyone earns almost a grand a week then paying slightly more should not trouble folk. Trouble is we have been conditioned to think success means "tax avoidance" or some shit. Corporations hiding money off-shore and tax cuts to the super wealthy. Is success a new Mercedes, a 5 bed detached, a new iPhone every year and 3 holidays abroad per annum?

 

Rich folk should pay more. I have NO IDEA where "middle class" means earning above £50K came from.  

 

Despite what the tory supporting MSM tell you with their spin and lies, public services in Scotland are far superior in every measurable way than any services south of the border.

 

I'm proud to live in Scotland and paying my way is part of that. I wouldn't live in England if you paid me!

[JamboX2]

2 hours ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Nobody is encouraging young Scottish students to leave. How many University graduates do you reckon stroll out and pick up £50k a year jobs?

 

Scotland's emigration was 56,613 up until June last year. That's only around 1.1% of the population.

 

In high tech engineering you can. 

[EC_Hearts]

35 minutes ago, JamboX2 said:

 

In high tech engineering you can. 

I work in airborne avionics development which could be classed as high tech. This covers all disciplines (Mechanical, Electronics & Software) and graduate starting salaries are nowhere £50k.

[Guest]

SNP firmly sending out a message that if you work hard and are successful, then they are going to dip their grubby little hands in your pockets.  Very small minded indeed.

[The Brow]

1 hour ago, Pans Jambo said:

I'm proud to live in Scotland and paying my way is part of that. I wouldn't live in England if you paid me!

 

Some incredible places to live in England. 

 

Cornwall, Dartmouth, Bath, Bristol, anywhere along the south coast on the channel. Its absolutely stunning and the weather is unreal compared to Scotland. 

 

 

 

[Greenbank2]

So much utter opinionated bilge on this thread. Here are some FACTS.

 Fact: Scots are NOT the highest taxed part of the UK. Higher rate tax is paid at a lower threshold than England.

 Fact: the highest pay of a non-management grade teacher without additional paid responsibilities, is circa £35K. This is most teachers, and most earn less.

 Fact: I hire graduates into IT in a blue chip American IT company employing 135K people. We pay in the upper quartile in the sector and starting salary is nothing near £50K (not even in England!)

Edited December 13, 2018 by Greenbank2

[doctor jambo]

Its not a tax rise- its not passing on a tax cut.

 

its shite, but there you go-  that's what governments do- keep raising taxes, and handing "free" stuff out .

 

 

[Hasselhoff]

13 minutes ago, Greenbank2 said:

So much utter opinionated bilge on this thread. Here are some FACTS.

 Fact: I hire graduates into IT in a blue chip American IT company employing 135K people. We pay in the upper quartile in the sector and starting salary is nothing near £50K (not even in England!)

 

What is their typical salary after 3 years in the job? As I said earlier, nobody makes decisions based on their starting salary in an IT job. 

[The Brow]

1 minute ago, Hasselhoff said:

 

What is their typical salary after 3 years in the job? As I said earlier, nobody makes decisions based on their starting salary in an IT job. 

 

Im 10 years into my working career. If I hadnt moved around a lot I'd be on nowhere near what I am. 

 

Started on the BT graduate scheme on £26k at 24. Worked up to £30k then left. Im now back at BT on more than double that but the ones that stayed are mostly on £40ish. 

 

Most decent IT folk earn typically between £30k - £50k. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

14 hours ago, EC_Hearts said:

£50k isn't a breakpoint for paying more tax than over the border it's actually in the low 40's or possibly even high 30's.

What a way to encourage people to develop themselves while remaining in Scotland.

One of many policies derived by a group of individuals who have never had a proper job in their lives (just like Westminster)

 

That's so true of today politicians (whatever the colour of their rosette).

[Seymour M Hersh]

19 minutes ago, Greenbank2 said:

So much utter opinionated bilge on this thread. Here are some FACTS.

 Fact: Scots are NOT the highest taxed part of the UK. Higher rate tax is paid at a lower threshold than England.

 Fact: the highest pay of a non-management grade teacher without additional paid responsibilities, is circa £35K. This is most teachers, and most earn less.

 Fact: I hire graduates into IT in a blue chip American IT company employing 135K people. We pay in the upper quartile in the sector and starting salary is nothing near £50K (not even in England!)

 

Not a fact but an opinion. Greenbank2 is very shouty at you!! 

[Ribble]

15 hours ago, Ray Gin said:

 

Really? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-40494488

 

Plus free prescriptions, free dental checkups, along with free tuition fees for Scottish students.

 

 

Free Prescriptions, while it looks great politically has little benefit to the general population as prior to it being free less than 5% of people paid for their prescription anyway!

 

Generally people who require a prescription are children, pensioners, students or on lower incomes, not to mention pregnant women or prescriptions for contraception, all of which had free prescriptions anyway, in the main the only people that paid for their prescriptions were normally healthy adults in full time employment that paid a wage high enough to not warrant the support of benefits.

 

As for the Tax rates, the middle band is just above the average wage for cities like Edinburgh, if you have worked in your chosen profession for 10 years then that middle tax band is under the average salary in Edinburgh (£37,652). If you have 20 years of experience then the average salary (£42,274) is almost on a par with the higher rate threshold. 

 

Making 44k takes you into the higher rate band, which some on here think is makes you middle class or even rich, with house prices and the cost of living in Edinburgh that 44k doesn't go all that far!

[The Brow]

35 minutes ago, Ribble said:

 

Making 44k takes you into the higher rate band, which some on here think is makes you middle class or even rich, with house prices and the cost of living in Edinburgh that 44k doesn't go all that far!

 

You would have to live in the depths of Fife or in some former industrial shithole to be considered rich on £44k. 

 

https://www.income-tax.co.uk/calculator/44000/

 

£2641 after tax. Thats not rich. Thats not even middle class. 

[Sawdust Caesar]

There wouldn't need to be any tax rises if the govt. clamped down on evasion, fraud etc. Tens of billions of pounds of tax is lost through evasion, illegal avoidance and fraud. The govt. reckons the tax gap is around £32billion but ask many HMRC staff and they will say it is a lot higher. I read on another forum about an accountant telling a client who owned a hairdressing salon that she wasn't claiming enough expenses and that all his other clients in the same industry were claiming almost double what she was doing. She told him that she claimed the actual amount and was told you might get HMRC suspicious and they will investigate why all the others are claiming more expenses than you so she upped her amount. That will be happening up and down the country and the chances of those people getting found out are near to nil.

 

Re free prescriptions, I have been on permanent medicine for over 26 years now which meant that I was paying for each item for a good few years before free prescriptions came in. For people like me it was worth buying an annual season ticket which meant all your prescriptions were covered. The first season ticket I bought cost me £93.00 but the last one I bought (the year before free prescriptions came in) only cost me £28.00. As someone who in the last 6/7 years has had about 18 different items on prescription I would have no problem if we had to pay for prescriptions again as long as I could get the season ticket to cover it.

[Craig_]

16 hours ago, Brighton Jambo said:

My nursery fees are over £1000 a month.  Plus mortgage, council tax , bills, petrol, pension etc.  People who think those on £50k a year are living the high life are delusional.  

 

Might be worth seeing how much of your nursery fees, pension, savings etc can be taken pre-tax. Can get your taxable income looking much better and remove the need for higher-rate tax.

Edited December 13, 2018 by Craig_

[southcap]

The vast majority of this board will proably earn roughly half of £50k a year.

 

And you expect all of us to feel sorry for them?

 

If life is so hard earning £50k, imagine what the rest of us have to live like.

 

Barking up the wrong tree.

[Ricardo Shillyshally]

Is this a new class war?.

 

The moderately well paid getting sniffy at the reasonably well paid

[Brighton Jambo]

4 hours ago, southcap said:

The vast majority of this board will proably earn roughly half of £50k a year.

 

And you expect all of us to feel sorry for them?

 

If life is so hard earning £50k, imagine what the rest of us have to live like.

 

Barking up the wrong tree.

I reckon at least half the people on this board earn at least between 30-40k with a good number earning more than that.  

Edited December 13, 2018 by Brighton Jambo

[Roxy Hearts]

Taxes are always damned if you do or damned if don't but if you're the SNP you're eternally damned. They do a fairly good job with the budget. Dread to think what Labour would do especially that moron James Kelly. 

[jumpship]

On 12/12/2018 at 18:29, Statts1976uk said:

It’s absolutely scandalous, they want to try and either keep the best people or attract them to this country only to make being here financially unattractive. 

 

It it wouldn’t be so bad if the services we are paying for were excellent. Our education system is failing and our health service is struggling, it’s hard to see how this extra money is actually getting used properly.

 

 

Some one pointed out on radio Scotland that in America people prefer to live in high tax states as they have better services and crime is lower. 

 

So you can work out that the craphole states with high crime levels are low tax...

[doctor jambo]

I strongly suspect that, in the very near future, all cash transactions will be stopped,

this will do 2 things

1- tax revenues will go through the roof

2- the tradesmen who arrive to fix the roof will have to accurately declare what they are paid to do it

[SE16 3LN]

Free prescriptions make a difference but not that much. I pay £110 a year for life saving drugs in England.

 

No tuition fees is massive, an essential part of democracy and of vital importance to the long term economy. It is also expensive,  hence the reason paying students appear to be receiving preferential access to some Scottish Universities (I've only read some press soundbites so only guessing this is true).

 

A £1500 a year tax burden for highly trained professionals will probably reverse al the good done by investing in Universities. People will leave if they think they can save that money by stepping over the border I'm afraid.

 

Joined up thinking required on these things.

[doctor jambo]

42 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

Free prescriptions make a difference but not that much. I pay £110 a year for life saving drugs in England.

 

No tuition fees is massive, an essential part of democracy and of vital importance to the long term economy. It is also expensive,  hence the reason paying students appear to be receiving preferential access to some Scottish Universities (I've only read some press soundbites so only guessing this is true).

 

A £1500 a year tax burden for highly trained professionals will probably reverse al the good done by investing in Universities. People will leave if they think they can save that money by stepping over the border I'm afraid.

 

Joined up thinking required on these things.

The difficulty with further education is the broadening of it.

The number of pretty pointless things people study is outrageous.

Do nail technicians need to be at college?

Or hairdressers?

Does the country need hundreds of psychology graduates to fill call centres?

Most things could return to being vocational and nobody would notice any difference at all.

The number of people studying "hair and beauty" is staggering

[mutley]

How many people are really going to upsticks and move down south for the sake of £1500 a year. If I was offered the same job in Manchester with a 10K raise I wouldn’t take it, surely being beside friends and family is far more important 

[SE16 3LN]

12 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

The difficulty with further education is the broadening of it.

The number of pretty pointless things people study is outrageous.

Do nail technicians need to be at college?

Or hairdressers?

Does the country need hundreds of psychology graduates to fill call centres?

Most things could return to being vocational and nobody would notice any difference at all.

The number of people studying "hair and beauty" is staggering

I take your point, but I'm not sure Psychology is a good example. For example It's a profession that has become a key part of management development and staff motivation, of fundamental importance to the success of major businesses.

 

 

[doctor jambo]

2 minutes ago, mutley said:

How many people are really going to upsticks and move down south for the sake of £1500 a year. If I was offered the same job in Manchester with a 10K raise I wouldn’t take it, surely being beside friends and family is far more important 

The issue is not the £1500 as such- though after years of pay stagnation it is not an insignificant sum.

General Practice is in utter crisis, as is medical staffing in general.

I'll explain-

as a full time GP in 2008 I was on £72000- which was cool.

As a full time GP in 2018 I am on £73000- which is still a lot, that is true- but represents a rise of £100 per year for the last decade.

The opportunity WAS there to essentially give me a pay rise ( or at least avoid another drop) but this has been passed over.

Now I do a lot of private stuff that supplements- BUT if I didn't I could move to England where GP's earn £90,000 and pay lower tax so have even greater take home.

Or Australia  and earn £150,000.

Now, pay is not everything, but the differentials are getting larger and larger

[SE16 3LN]

7 minutes ago, mutley said:

How many people are really going to upsticks and move down south for the sake of £1500 a year. If I was offered the same job in Manchester with a 10K raise I wouldn’t take it, surely being beside friends and family is far more important 

Many would though Mutley, for a multitude of reasons, and many don't come from loving, functional family units like yourself.

[doctor jambo]

7 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

I take your point, but I'm not sure Psychology is a good example. For example It's a profession that has become a key part of management development and staff motivation, of fundamental importance to the success of major businesses.

 

 

Fair enough- it was my own recollection of University there-

Medics, Engineers, Physicists inside studying and attending lectures.

 

Psychology students lying in the sunshine drinking and mucking about.

 

[southcap]

9 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Fair enough- it was my own recollection of University there-

Medics, Engineers, Physicists inside studying and attending lectures.

 

Psychology students lying in the sunshine drinking and mucking about.

 

As an engineer, thank god for that.

 

Thank F for psychology or I wouldn't have the therapy I have today.

 

The world would be a soulless place if it was just full of medics, engineers and physicists.

 

No music, no film, no art. Not a world worth living in.

 

 

[SE16 3LN]

18 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Fair enough- it was my own recollection of University there-

Medics, Engineers, Physicists inside studying and attending lectures.

 

Psychology students lying in the sunshine drinking and mucking about.

 

Ha Ha, I did Sociology and we were mucking about. Psychology got their act together after that.

[Seymour M Hersh]

3 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

I strongly suspect that, in the very near future, all cash transactions will be stopped,

this will do 2 things

1- tax revenues will go through the roof

2- the tradesmen who arrive to fix the roof will have to accurately declare what they are paid to do it

 

Getting work done on the house are we? 

[Statts1976uk]

21 hours ago, jumpship said:

Some one pointed out on radio Scotland that in America people prefer to live in high tax states as they have better services and crime is lower. 

 

So you can work out that the craphole states with high crime levels are low tax...

 

My point was that if the services we get were good or at least improving it wouldn’t be so bad, most people would be happy to pay a little more but things aren’t getting better.

[jumpship]

2 hours ago, Statts1976uk said:

 

My point was that if the services we get were good or at least improving it wouldn’t be so bad, most people would be happy to pay a little more but things aren’t getting better.

They are better than South of the border... 

[maroongoals]

49 minutes ago, jumpship said:

They are better than South of the border... 

How do you arrive at that?

[Statts1976uk]

2 hours ago, jumpship said:

They are better than South of the border... 

 

They aren’t though, the quality of primary and secondary education has been declining significantly in the last few years.

[ri Alban]

10 hours ago, Statts1976uk said:

 

My point was that if the services we get were good or at least improving it wouldn’t be so bad, most people would be happy to pay a little more but things aren’t getting better.

Public transport when taken back will make a huge difference.

The little more has only just started, so atleast give it time. 

[ri Alban]

5 hours ago, Statts1976uk said:

 

They aren’t though, the quality of primary and secondary education has been declining significantly in the last few years.

Sorry but that garbage. The teachers are also garbage but that's been a fact since the early nineties.

The education system the SNP inherited wasn't great is what I'm saying. Labour has a lot to answer for too.

Edited December 15, 2018 by ri Alban

[doctor jambo]

6 hours ago, Statts1976uk said:

 

They aren’t though, the quality of primary and secondary education has been declining significantly in the last few years.

The insistence on keeping all kids in mainstream education is an utter joke.

the disruption caused to good kids education by appallingly behaved kids is scandalous .