Labour

[maroonlegions]

Funny tinge you say...? Bless you Angela Smith, you didn’t even have 24 hours of defection under your belt ??? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[IMac]

14 minutes ago, maroonlegions said:

Oh the irony of those 7 red Tories deserting the Labour party today. Good riddance i say. 

 

Tories and the BBC miking this big time but they forget the calibre of those who are quitting. 

 

 

 

 

Oh and old Chunka boy too.

 

Labour's Chuka Umunna under fire for labelling people 'trash' on elite social network;  He is not a fan of the working class it seems.

 

A Labour frontbencher was today accused of being a champagne socialist with "more faces than Armani suits" after he used an alias on an exclusive social networking site to ask for advice on how to avoid "trash".

 

 

He  is not a fan of your working class it seems.

 

 

And here is another of the 7 , a one Angela Smith,  Did not  take Angela Smith long to show her racist views, oh hang on she left labour because they are racist fancy that..... looks like an own goal for their new centralist party then. 

 

Her comment  "funny TINGE "  on the BBC programme Politics LIve when being interviewed on racists  within the Labour party  is a fecking stoater.

 

Today, this MP Angela Smith, one of the 7 who  quit the Labour Party  because she said Labour was racist.

 

Now, listen to this on the link below, her interview on the BBC Politics LIve in which she refers to non whites as  those who have a "funny TINGE".. 

 

Isobel Wabyhttps://twitter.com/ToryFibs/status/1097492745403486209 

 

 

 

 

Crucially, the company the 7 MPs join today was set up 13 days before Jeremy Corbyn tabled his amendment to hold a 2nd Referendum on a Labour Brexit Deal. We wondered why they were so livid when Jeremy did this, now we know. It deprived them of their chief excuse for leaving.

 

And this;

 

The company that provides a vehicle for the 7 MPs leaving Labour today was founded 33 days ago. Think about that carefully, and reflect upon the last nearly 5 weeks of false outrage & staged confrontations.

 

The 7  are liars  too it seems;

 

A tiny group of Umunnaites are planning to split from the Labour Party very soon. They’ll claim Jeremy betrayed the Motion agreed at Party Conference on a 2nd Referendum. This is a verifiable lie. One  is the Conference Motion. And two  is Jeremy’s Amendment tabled 29.01.19;

 

Again link below;

 

https://twitter.com/ToryFibs/status/1097225620180881408

 

 

 

 

 

Delighted that these 7 muppets  are gone , when you look closer at them they ARE  better off in the Tory party  or whatever red Tory party they are dreaming up. The real champagne socialists .  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Go away

[maroonlegions]

Just now, Barack said:

Good to see, that you're taking it in your stride, mate.

 

 

Aye. 

[maroonlegions]

1 minute ago, IMac said:

Go away

 

Not liking truth and facts , shame. 

 

 

[Don Dan]

1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

Thanks for yer brexit thread pish, btw.

 

Your’re more than welcome. ?

[maroonlegions]

 

 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

You can bang on as much as you like about Corbyn 'having the right principles' but a ***** is a ***** and he's a prize *****.

[Victorian]

This is 100% about destabilising the PLP and shadow cabinet in order to oust Corbyn and allies.     To supposedly retake Labour from the pesky left wing (lol).     For some to position themselves in time for a leadership bid.

 

Brexit strategy and anti-semitism are banners of convenience.     Total pish.

 

Ultimately the membership will reject them.    The membership doesn't want a new generation of plastic socialists and so-called centre ground occupiers.

 

If these MPs want to form a new politics then they'll have to form a new party.    The Labour Party is where it should be... on the left.     It's not a vehicle to be forced into areas not supported by the grass roots,   for the personal ambitions of career minded politicians.     **** off and create your own party and see where it gets you.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

9 minutes ago, Victorian said:

This is 100% about destabilising the PLP and shadow cabinet in order to oust Corbyn and allies.     To supposedly retake Labour from the pesky left wing (lol).     For some to position themselves in time for a leadership bid.

 

Brexit strategy and anti-semitism are banners of convenience.     Total pish.

 

Ultimately the membership will reject them.    The membership doesn't want a new generation of plastic socialists and so-called centre ground occupiers.

 

If these MPs want to form a new politics then they'll have to form a new party.    The Labour Party is where it should be... on the left.     It's not a vehicle to be forced into areas not supported by the grass roots,   for the personal ambitions of career minded politicians.     **** off and create your own party and see where it gets you.

 

It's on the left, and I've no problem with that, but if you don't have a problem with the way it's being run then you're not looking hard enough.

[Victorian]

So-called moderates / centrists going off on a self-serving strop might come back to bite them.     It could quite easily crystalise the make-up of the PLP as more left wing.      They don't have the courage of their convictions to fight a constituency election now,    but they'll need to contest one eventually,    against their own Labour voters.

 

There is a more-than-plentiful supply of people able to step into the shoes of any number of current,  centrist Labour MPs.    These people are not unique and indispensable.    Far from it.

[Iamborg]

no surprise to see the anti semite  left wing loons ignoring the facts .

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

7 minutes ago, Victorian said:

So-called moderates / centrists going off on a self-serving strop might come back to bite them.     It could quite easily crystalise the make-up of the PLP as more left wing.      They don't have the courage of their convictions to fight a constituency election now,    but they'll need to contest one eventually,    against their own Labour voters.

 

There is a more-than-plentiful supply of people able to step into the shoes of any number of current,  centrist Labour MPs.    These people are not unique and indispensable.    Far from it.

 

 

Of course they're not but ultimately their complaints are valid and the Labour Party is being taken over by people like Dot Lawson, who's been acting like a dick on Twitter all day. That's who you're siding with.

 

[Victorian]

2 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

 

 

Of course they're not but ultimately their complaints are valid and the Labour Party is being taken over by people like Dot Lawson, who's been acting like a dick on Twitter all day. That's who you're siding with.

 

 

Eh nut.   How the hell am I siding with Lawson?

 

I maintain their complaints are totally half-arsed.    This is opportunism at it's most cowardly.     

[Seymour M Hersh]

This century's "gang of four"! And my bet is they'll be jut as successful with their new venture. 

[IMac]

7 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

This century's "gang of four"! And my bet is they'll be jut as successful with their new venture. 

Read your history books. Resulted in the rise of Blair 

[Dirty Deeds]

6 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

This century's "gang of four"! And my bet is they'll be jut as successful with their new venture. 

As successful as Labour in the last 3 General Elections.  Their not even the main opposition in Scotland anymore FFS.

 

They cannot become anymore irrelevant than the current Labour Party. 

[SwindonJambo]

49 minutes ago, Victorian said:

This is 100% about destabilising the PLP and shadow cabinet in order to oust Corbyn and allies.     To supposedly retake Labour from the pesky left wing (lol).     For some to position themselves in time for a leadership bid.

 

Brexit strategy and anti-semitism are banners of convenience.     Total pish.

 

Ultimately the membership will reject them.    The membership doesn't want a new generation of plastic socialists and so-called centre ground occupiers.

 

If these MPs want to form a new politics then they'll have to form a new party.    The Labour Party is where it should be... on the left.     It's not a vehicle to be forced into areas not supported by the grass roots,   for the personal ambitions of career minded politicians.     **** off and create your own party and see where it gets you.

 

If the Labour Party stays where it is, on the hard left, they’ll never win an election ever again and we’ll be guaranteed Tory governments for evermore. 

[JamboX2]

I agree with Tom Watson's statement. 

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

If the Labour Party stays where it is, on the hard left, they’ll never win an election ever again and we’ll be guaranteed Tory governments for evermore. 

 

It isn't on the hard left.     But even if it is somewhere on the left,   not to the liking of the electorate,    it IS to the liking of the majority of the membership and grass roots movement.      The Labour Party is the grass roots and it will elect it's party leaders.     If the electorate want something else then they are free to vote for any future centrist party formed by working class heroes like Chuka Umunna.

 

Luciana Berger is drooling on on the TV now.     It's about as clear as mud what she stands for.      Just another talking head.     

[AlphonseCapone]

13 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

If the Labour Party stays where it is, on the hard left, they’ll never win an election ever again and we’ll be guaranteed Tory governments for evermore. 

 

What makes them hard left? Like to me hard left is communist. 

[sadj]

3 hours ago, Brighton Jambo said:

I 100% believe that anti-Semitism is rife in the labour party and that Corbyn is doing nowhere near enough to deal with it.  Does that make him anti-Semitic not sure.

 

Its fascinating that the day the labour party splits with anti-Semitism cited as a major factor rather than accept it and recognise the need for change you just accuse them all of being a 'red tory'.   Its that level of denial that will further split the party.

 

I think for certain under JC labour will never be in power again. But you crack on and literally watch them disintegrate in front of your eyes without blaming the one man who is ultimately to blame.

Do bot post that on twitter the cult of Lawson will be on you in seconds. Im getting it tight for asking why hes (to quote someone else) stopped trying to be (the one we cant name) and trying to be Fiona Bruce. 

 

Takes a lot of balls to walk away from the support of a party , fair play to them. To me we are lucky May called an election when she did as Labour pulled closer to them or Brexit would be worse. However had they elected a leader without his own interests and self importance at heart and with a personality and some balls Labour would be far and away ahead of the Tories. The tories are shooting themselves in their foot day in day out and labour stumble along doing nothing to help the country. The whole system is a joke and its the people struggling who suffer the most. Not those sitting there in the house pissing about with the countries future.

[Victorian]

Just now, AlphonseCapone said:

 

What makes them hard left? Like to me hard left is communist. 

 

It isn't.   It's just a typical hysterical,   exaggerated cliche.

[sadj]

1 minute ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

What makes them hard left? Like to me hard left is communist. 

Left now is basically where the tories were 30years ago. It seems politics always moves to the right. The right get more right the left get pulled right. 

[SwindonJambo]

6 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

It isn't on the hard left.     But even if it is somewhere on the left,   not to the liking of the electorate,    it IS to the liking of the majority of the membership and grass roots movement.      The Labour Party is the grass roots and it will elect it's party leaders.     If the electorate want something else then they are free to vote for any future centrist party formed by working class heroes like Chuka Umunna.

 

Luciana Berger is drooling on on the TV now.     It's about as clear as mud what she stands for.      Just another talking head.     

 

Fine. They are guaranteed the support of their grass roots movement. But their grass roots movement is only a small fraction of the wider electorate and there are nowhere near enough of them to win an election. They are becoming an organisation for their own sake and not a credible electable party who can form a government and serve the country.  All driven by the bullying and intimidation tactics of the Dreadful Momentum organisation. 

 

I used to be a Labour voter. I won’t touch them with a shitty stick until the current regime is removed. All they’ll achieve is Tory Goverments for evermore stumbling from crisis to crisis, but remaining in power because of the shit opposition.

[Victorian]

4 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

Fine. They are guaranteed the support of their grass roots movement. But their grass roots movement is only a small fraction of the wider electorate and there are nowhere near enough of them to win an election. They are becoming an organisation for their own sake and not a credible electable party who can form a government and serve the country.  All driven by the bullying and intimidation tactics of the Dreadful Momentum organisation. 

 

I used to be a Labour voter. I won’t touch them with a shitty stick until the current regime is removed. All they’ll achieve is Tory Goverments for evermore stumbling from crisis to crisis, but remaining in power because of the shit opposition.

 

Great.   Vote for Chuka Umunna's new centre ground party when it's formed.    There is no onus on the Labour Party to become whatever it needs to be in order to be elected to power.    It's mandate is to form policy from the bottom - up on a policies of conviction basis.    If people want it... great.     If not... equally valid.

[The Mighty Thor]

16 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

It isn't on the hard left.     But even if it is somewhere on the left,   not to the liking of the electorate,    it IS to the liking of the majority of the membership and grass roots movement.      The Labour Party is the grass roots and it will elect it's party leaders.     If the electorate want something else then they are free to vote for any future centrist party formed by working class heroes like Chuka Umunna.

 

Luciana Berger is drooling on on the TV now.     It's about as clear as mud what she stands for.      Just another talking head.     

One could  quite fairly ask what the Labour Party stands for?

The world has moved on from Labour's grass roots of dockers and miners and no amount of hankering after it's trade union past is going to make it electable, regardless of how many kids give it ooh Jeremy Corbyn. 

It's not functioning as an opposition and that's down to a dogma being executed by a group true to grass roots but with a staggering skills deficit. 

 

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, The Mighty Thor said:

One could  quite fairly ask what the Labour Party stands for?

The world has moved on from Labour's grass roots of dockers and miners and no amount of hankering after it's trade union past is going to make it electable, regardless of how many kids give it ooh Jeremy Corbyn. 

It's not functioning as an opposition and that's down to a dogma being executed by a group true to grass roots but with a staggering skills deficit. 

 

 

Then the landscape of UK politics should simply by left to evolve on a Darwinian basis.     If the Labour Party contains so many toxic people throughout it's layers and a future party forms a credible policy platform then natural selection will occur.

 

These people are transparently self-serving.     The better way to go about it would be to resign their seats and re-contest them against Labour Party candidates.     Form a full manifesto and sell it to the electorate.     Recruit would-be members,  activists and representatives.       Not dress it up as a protest against anti-semitism within the leadership,   because that is a dishonest claim.    Not dress it up as a protest against Brexit policy,    because mandated Labour Party policy is being played out to the roadmap.

[Cade]

See when you're claiming to be leaving a political party because it's "institutionally racist"?

It may not be wise to refer to people of colour as "funny tinge".

Makes you look a right twat.

 

 

[The Mighty Thor]

14 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Then the landscape of UK politics should simply by left to evolve on a Darwinian basis.     If the Labour Party contains so many toxic people throughout it's layers and a future party forms a credible policy platform then natural selection will occur.

 

These people are transparently self-serving.     The better way to go about it would be to resign their seats and re-contest them against Labour Party candidates.     Form a full manifesto and sell it to the electorate.     Recruit would-be members,  activists and representatives.       Not dress it up as a protest against anti-semitism within the leadership,   because that is a dishonest claim.    Not dress it up as a protest against Brexit policy,    because mandated Labour Party policy is being played out to the roadmap.

Either the political macro climate will change and the conditions will align to allow this Labour party, 'true to itself', will somehow become electable again, or it will die on the vine. 

The Brexit road map long game being played out is a simply jaw dropping example of following a dogma regardless of what's going on around you. It's a loaded shotgun with detailed diagrams on how to take dead aim and blow your own feet off one at a time. 

[Boris]

43 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

I used to be a Labour voter. I won’t touch them with a shitty stick until the current regime is removed. All they’ll achieve is Tory Goverments for evermore stumbling from crisis to crisis, but remaining in power because of the shit opposition.

 

So who are all these former Labour voters now going to vote for? 

 

Corbyn did alright at the last GE, so the for the many not the few mantra seemed to resonate. I'm not sure it's as big a deal as is being made out. 

 

The pseudo McCarthyite stigmatisation of Labour is off the charts! 

[JudyJudyJudy]

5 hours ago, maroonlegions said:

What a pile of utter shite.

 

Corybn is one of the only MPs to have been arrested at anti racist marchers . You actually belief that he is anti semitism. You should look closer to home within your squeaky clean Tory party .

 

 

 

 

 

The Tory run BBC have openly admitted that they have misinterpreted and mislead  the public on Corbyn   and so have some right wing papers.   

 

 

 

 

 

Glad these red Tories are fecking off.

Me too Bunch of Blairite scum bags Particularly that vile creature Chuko

[JudyJudyJudy]

Hopefully May calls an election and those insignificant 7 stand for their new " party" and lose to Labour.  Revenge is a dish best served cold. 

[Martin_T]

We have the worst government in living memory and yet still Corbyn and co stand next to no chance under their current mandate of being elected. 

 

We desperately need a credible opposition at a national level, hopefully this is the start of a move towards creating an electable centerist party. 

 

What is the point of pursuing a hard left agenda if you know that it is fated to be at best in opposition?

[Boris]

2 minutes ago, Martin_T said:

We have the worst government in living memory and yet still Corbyn and co stand next to no chance under their current mandate of being elected. 

 

We desperately need a credible opposition at a national level, hopefully this is the start of a move towards creating an electable centerist party. 

 

What is the point of pursuing a hard left agenda if you know that it is fated to be at best in opposition?

 

It didn't do too badly at the last election. 

 

And its not hard left, whatever that actually means. What does it mean to you? 

[AlphonseCapone]

6 minutes ago, Martin_T said:

We have the worst government in living memory and yet still Corbyn and co stand next to no chance under their current mandate of being elected. 

 

We desperately need a credible opposition at a national level, hopefully this is the start of a move towards creating an electable centerist party. 

 

What is the point of pursuing a hard left agenda if you know that it is fated to be at best in opposition?

 

Swindon Jambo hasn't been back on since I asked this, but why are Labour hard left? 

[Martin_T]

12 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

Swindon Jambo hasn't been back on since I asked this, but why are Labour hard left? 

 

Hard left from my perspective is public ownership of utilities, an enlarged welfare state and increased taxation.

 

I say all this as someone with a chronic degenerative illness who may well have to rely on the welfare state one day.

[Cade]

24 minutes ago, Martin_T said:

 

Hard left from my perspective is public ownership of utilities, an enlarged welfare state and increased taxation.

 

I say all this as someone with a chronic degenerative illness who may well have to rely on the welfare state one day.

THAT is what you call HARD LEFT>?!

 

That's ever so slightly left of centre.

[Victorian]

Nationalised key services.    Perfectly reasonable to provide improved srandards,   accountability,   jobs and working conditions.

 

Enlarged state (generally).     Perfectly valid for largely the same reasons.

 

Increased taxation.     Once more... quite valid.     More than ever,   the public sector could be greatly improved via a wholly affordable rise in taxation.    For virtually everyone,    on a progressive basis.       It is no accidental consequence that ths Tories have accustomed people to relatively low taxation over many years.      It is now almost impossible to propose tax rises to people without howls of protest.    But people should begin to be honest with themselves over this matter.     Most people can afford some degree of increased taxes.

 

I don't agree with a wholesale clobbering of the well off per se,    but a well thought out re-balancing of the tax burden is well overdue.

 

If this is HARD LEFT then I'm a herd of giraffes.

[XB52]

Brexit and anti-Semitism are just made up excuses for these blairites to rip the labour party to bits. Meanwhile the Tories are fighting each other. Thankfully we will be leaving them to it in the next few years and can afford to just sit back and laugh 

[SwindonJambo]

1 hour ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

Swindon Jambo hasn't been back on since I asked this, but why are Labour hard left? 

 

They’re hard left in the context of a mature Western Democracy. They seem to favour a lot of state intervention and public ownership of industry, a route we’ve been down before with little success. The one and only area I would support this in would be the railways. They seem to be promising an awful lot of things for free. If they ever got into power, I’ve no doubt the public finances would very quickly get into a mess. And I just cannot stomach Corbyn’s reluctance to ever criticise Russia and past friendships with terrorists. No ****ing Thanks. What’s he said about that sick evil wee shite who wants to come back from Syria?

 

And don’t get me started on the despicable tactics of Momentum and their campaign of bullying and intimidation of sitting MPs trying to force deselection so that they can install their own kind. They are bad news. 

 

**** the lot of them. May they spend the rest of their lives shitting hedgehogs.

 

Thanks to his total ineptitude, we’ll have over privileged Tory toffs running the place for the foreseeable future.

[Martin_T]

32 minutes ago, Cade said:

THAT is what you call HARD LEFT>?!

 

That's ever so slightly left of centre.

 

In the modern context I would say so. It's a relative scale. The democrats in the US are often accused of being 'socialist' however by UK standards they would be conservative.

[AlphonseCapone]

59 minutes ago, Martin_T said:

 

Hard left from my perspective is public ownership of utilities, an enlarged welfare state and increased taxation.

 

I say all this as someone with a chronic degenerative illness who may well have to rely on the welfare state one day.

 

To me that's Socialism. Whereas Hard left is communism. 

 

56 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

 

I would say communists or as close as you can get without being a commie.

 

Labour are not that.

 

Though likewise I wouldn’t say the torries are hard right as they ain’t a bunch of fascists, despite what some might claim.

 

 

 

Yip agree completely. 

[Martin_T]

1 minute ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

To me that's Socialism. Whereas Hard left is communism. 

 

 

Yip agree completely. 

 

As I say it's relative to where the centre is perceived to be. If Blairite Labour was centre left, then Corbyn's Labour, relatively speaking are hard left. 

[AlphonseCapone]

13 minutes ago, Martin_T said:

 

As I say it's relative to where the centre is perceived to be. If Blairite Labour was centre left, then Corbyn's Labour, relatively speaking are hard left. 

 

Aye but no way was Blair's Government centre left. It was Centre at best, with some creeps towards centre right. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

3 hours ago, IMac said:

Read your history books. Resulted in the rise of Blair 

 

Actually that breakaway spawned the Liberal Democrats. 

[Boris]

26 minutes ago, Martin_T said:

 

As I say it's relative to where the centre is perceived to be. If Blairite Labour was centre left, then Corbyn's Labour, relatively speaking are hard left. 

And who decides the narrative of where the centre is? Since 1979 the "centre" has drifted right, with the media extolling it. 

 

In other words, when is the centre not the centre? 

[Martin_T]

Just now, Boris said:

And who decides the narrative of where the centre is? Since 1979 the "centre" has drifted right, with the media extolling it. 

 

In other words, when is the centre not the centre? 

 

Bear in mind that these are all human constructs and are mere labels. There is no precise definition of the centre, just as there is no precise definition of facism.

 

In my opinion, how I would define the centre, is that it is where policies are tolerable for either end of the political spectrum. Given as you rightly point out, that this has drifted right over the past 40 years, the policies of the current Labour opposition could therefore be considered, relatively speaking, on the hard left of that spectrum.

[Riccarton3]

Let's not kid ourselves.

 

Anybody that describes Labour as hard left knows why they use the term. It gives people the fear. Many that hear the term enough just take it as fact.

  

 

[Ulysses]

When I heard the number 7, I admit I laughed.

 

 

 

This crew has to find find a lot of allies among MPs, and soon.....

 

 

 

 

.....or else political oblivion awaits them.

[JamboX2]

3 minutes ago, Riccarton3 said:

Let's not kid ourselves.

 

Anybody that describes Labour as hard left knows why they use the term. It gives people the fear. Many that hear the term enough just take it as fact.

  

 

 

To be honest Corbyn's policies on utilities, transport and the economy aren't hard left. They're in line with many of Labour's sister parties around the globe.

 

His hard left element is his view of politics, international relations and how he deals with the press is hard left and is where many have concerns. 

 

The party is not doing enough quick enough on anti-semitism. There are elements within the party undermining it and yet he does nothing. He's principled but too rigid in his views. That isn't leadership.