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Arrests for racial abuse at Tynecastle


Jamboelite

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19 minutes ago, jake said:

If I could take DNA from him and study it in a lab I could perhaps tell you that.

Does a lazy gene exist?

 

You know full well where you are going with this.

As did Frank with Jytees.

 

I tell you what though you him and Sadj have a lazy gene.

Label someone racist and be deliberately obtuse.

 

I unlike Sadj think all reasonable people see through that.

Firstly , i have at no point ever posting on here got personal about you so wind it.

 

Secondly , see my reply above to you. Your idea or normal or reasonable is based on you and your positions on things , as you have preconceived ideas of other posters your objectivity will get lost as thats human nature. 

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1 minute ago, sadj said:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/705591-the-100-best-soccer-players-of-all-time.amp.html A 2011 article (i think) and I think a lot more objective on historical footballers than many articles now would be. 

 

As far as what I took from Franks words it was simply that people on here and in our support are very obvious in their positions. You can tell almost before you read posts. Some clearly are incapable of seeing any wrong in their behaviour , other as unlikely to see any good. Pretty obvious i thought but im trying to look objectively. If either side look at it with either a prejudice toward a person/group or a preconceived opinion of others opinions you can’t do that and may make wrong assumptions. 

 

Apologies I have other priorities than replying instantly (sometimes)

It's cool that about your response time.

 

And fwiw initially I posted that I was embarrassed .

In so much that it reflects on HMFC.

 

Bottom line is that being accused of being racist is taken lightly on this forum and yet warning points are handed out for responses to that.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, jake said:

Got to laugh.

A chip on my shoulder because I've been labelled a racist.

Not just labelled mate .

Followed about .

Thankfully it's stopped but if you can't accept a different argument without labelling someone who has not made a racist post that makes you a bigot.

 

Really, I don’t remember following you around, nor labelling you a racist. 

 

What do do you mean “accept a different argument”? I’m the one who has remained civil and attempted to debate with you. You on the other have called me:

 

”thick” and “bigoted”, and assumed I have an issue with you because I think your racist. :lol:

 

 

Edited by Glib and Shameless Crier
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3 minutes ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said:

 

For someone who gets all bent out of shape about what others may be assuming, you don’t half make a lot of assumptions about people yourself.

 

Why on earth would I be upset if you wishes me a Merry Christmas instead of Seasons Greetings? ?

You seem the type to get upset.

Just my opinion.

 

Going on you getting bent out of shape about one posters account of his opinion of what was heard that you yourself didn't hear.

 

That help .

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2 minutes ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said:

 

Really, I don’t remember following you around, not labelling you a racist. 

 

What do do you mean “accept a different argument”? I’m the one who has remained civil and attempted to debate with you. You on the other have called me:

 

”thick” and “bigoted”, and assumed I have an issue with you because I think your racist. :lol:

 

You didn't follow me about.

Did I say you did.

 

You are a bigot.

 

And you were being deliberately thick.

 

That's not abuse.

It's spot on.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, jake said:

You seem the type to get upset.

Just my opinion.

 

Going on you getting bent out of shape about one posters account of his opinion of what was heard that you yourself didn't hear.

 

That help .

 

I've got five more minutes before I test my blood and go to bed. 

 

What's your opinion about my account of what I saw yesterday posted earlier on the thread? 

 

Do you think I'm wrong to call out what I saw/heard, given the club will know who purchased the tickets behind me yesterday? 

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6 minutes ago, jake said:

You seem the type to get upset.

Just my opinion.

 

Going on you getting bent out of shape about one posters account of his opinion of what was heard that you yourself didn't hear.

 

That help .

 

More assumption. :unsure:

 

Not sure why you are so upset about my conversation with Blairdin? He doesn’t seem overly bothered by what I said. 

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4 minutes ago, jake said:

Shall I go through your posts where you generalise sections of our support and assume their beliefs.

 

That's a bigoted mind .

 

 

 

If you like. As long as you provide context and links to the threads as well as the posts themselves, so I don’t have to bother  ****ing around doing it myself. ?

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I see Jake is up to his old tricks again. Accusing people of calling him a racist when nobody has done any such thing.

 

Pretty pathetic behaviour.

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6 minutes ago, Notts1874 said:

You are a bit ugly though???

 

I’m c30% more handsome than I was when we met a few months ago. I’m somewhere between rugged and dashing now. ?

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MoncurMacdonaldMercer
2 hours ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said:

 

Oh, that “type”. So is that personality type created by culture or genetics then? Is someone born the “not roll their sleeves up and fight type”? Or are they made that way due to their environment? 

 

plenty folk on here saying Jamie walker is of that "type"

 

one in the spokes there

 

?

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15 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

plenty folk on here saying Jamie walker is of that "type"

 

one in the spokes there

 

?

 

I think Jamie is unfortunately not up to the job he was required to do at Hearts. He got off to a good start in his Hearts career, but through circumstances outwith his control, he found himself with a lot of responsibility placed on his shoulders and he wasn’t up to the job, in my opinion. The reasons he wasn’t up to the job are many in their possibilities. Injuries? Wanting to leave? Lack of mental strength? Who knows, we can only guess.

 

What we do know, is that despite his obvious footballing ability, he was unable to inspire us to victory in the big games, like the derbies. Often despite being easily one of the most skilful players on the park.

 

The reasons given for Walker’s downturn in form latterly before he left, were from his Dad and his Director of Football/manager. At least in the wider publicly digested media anyway. There were the usual suggestions flung about on here of course, from both sides of the debate. That’s what we keep hearing this place is for though, right? A blend of opinions?

 

 

Edited by Glib and Shameless Crier
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MoncurMacdonaldMercer
26 minutes ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said:

 

I think Jamie is unfortunately not up to the job he was required to do at Hearts. He got off to a good start in his Hearts career, but through circumstances outwith his control, he found himself with a lot of responsibility placed on his shoulders and he wasn’t up to the job, in my opinion. The reasons he wasn’t up to the job are many in their possibilities. Injuries? Wanting to leave? Lack of mental strength? Who knows, we can only guess.

 

What we do know, is that despite his obvious footballing ability, he was unable to inspire us to victory in the big games, like the derbies. Often despite being easily one of the most skilful players on the park.

 

The reasons given for Walker’s downturn in form latterly before he left, were from his Dad and his Director of Football/manager. At least in the wider publicly digested media anyway. There were the usual suggestions flung about on here of course, from both sides of the debate. That’s what we keep hearing this place is for though, right? A blend of opinions?

 

 

 

yes I don't think he's of that"type" either

 

but plenty others do - that opinion exists

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1 minute ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

yes I don't think he's of that"type" either

 

but plenty others do - that opinion exists

 

What “type” of player do people think he is? What category are we putting him in here?

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MoncurMacdonaldMercer
2 minutes ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said:

 

What “type” of player do people think he is? What category are we putting him in here?

 

i thought you were discussing the "type" earlier in detail ?

 

ive only skimmed the posts so might not be 100% but wasn't it to do with not getting his sleeves rolled-up not digging-in lazy giving up and such non-attributes

 

no?

 

 

 

 

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Geoff the Mince
5 hours ago, Barack said:

Franz Beckenbauer

Just Fontaine 

Bobby Moore

George Best

Lionel Messi

Johann Cruyff

Marco Van Basten

Lev Yashin...

 

 

...can't be arsed any further. It's Christmas.

 

 

 

 

Stevie Fulton .

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7 minutes ago, Geoff the Mince said:

Stevie Fulton .

And the fake Stevie Fulton...the imposter that was Roberto Baggio

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Geoff the Mince
3 minutes ago, sadj said:

And the fake Stevie Fulton...the imposter that was Roberto Baggio

Baggio could only look on in envy at Fulton's God like physical appearance and  dashing looks, 

 

It must be something in the water at the Port Glasgow Riviera .

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7 hours ago, blairdin said:

 

I've got five more minutes before I test my blood and go to bed. 

 

What's your opinion about my account of what I saw yesterday posted earlier on the thread? 

 

Do you think I'm wrong to call out what I saw/heard, given the club will know who purchased the tickets behind me yesterday? 

I personally wouldn't email the club given that it is only an assumption that these guys were being racist, you didn't actually hear them saying anything racist, there is also the possibility that the guys in those seats weren't their allocated seats, there were lots of people moving around and sitting/standing anywhere, it could lead to fans under investigation who were sitting elsewhere.

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1 hour ago, Stuart G said:

I personally wouldn't email the club given that it is only an assumption that these guys were being racist, you didn't actually hear them saying anything racist, there is also the possibility that the guys in those seats weren't their allocated seats, there were lots of people moving around and sitting/standing anywhere, it could lead to fans under investigation who were sitting elsewhere.

Who cares, as long as it makes headlines and somebody gets charged.

 

 

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9 hours ago, sadj said:

 

As far as what I took from Franks words it was simply that people on here and in our support are very obvious in their positions. You can tell almost before you read posts. Some clearly are incapable of seeing any wrong in their behaviour , other as unlikely to see any good. Pretty obvious i thought but im trying to look objectively. If either side look at it with either a prejudice toward a person/group or a preconceived opinion of others opinions you can’t do that and may make wrong assumptions. 

 

Apologies I have other priorities than replying instantly (sometimes)

 

That’s the second time on this thread you’ve explained it perfectly mate. Hopefully it will sink in this time. When the thread subject  is about any type of potential naughty fan behaviour (flares, offensive songs, damaged seats) you can predict in advance the posters who will be on that thread mounting the “nothing to see here” defence. 

 

Don’t worry about not posting immediately mate, we all have busy lives outside of jkb, especially  this time of year. (ie. it doesn’t make you a “faceless coward”) :whistling:

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43 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Who cares, as long as it makes headlines and somebody gets charged.

 

 

 

Exactly. 

 

I’m emailing the club today because the guy behind me looked a bit sectarian. You can tell by the eyes, you know?

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Dagger Is Back
2 hours ago, Stuart G said:

I personally wouldn't email the club given that it is only an assumption that these guys were being racist, you didn't actually hear them saying anything racist, there is also the possibility that the guys in those seats weren't their allocated seats, there were lots of people moving around and sitting/standing anywhere, it could lead to fans under investigation who were sitting elsewhere.

 

Couldn’t agree more. Not sure what the crime is exactly, given that nothing racist seems to have been said

 

Given how Mitchell has been playing, I’m not surprised that he was getting pelters. The complainant seems to have been happy to join in on that.

 

We might end up with another Motherwellgate if he does escalate it.

 

Without knowIng the full text of what was said, if I heard guys talking about Mitchell being of a ‘type’ I’d immediately think about a spineless, billy big balled, average footballer who doesn’t give a shit about my team!

 

What would make a footballer like that? Loads of different reasons clearly. Colour? Not a chance.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Dagger Is Back said:

 

Couldn’t agree more. Not sure what the crime is exactly, given that nothing racist seems to have been said

 

Given how Mitchell has been playing, I’m not surprised that he was getting pelters. The complainant seems to have been happy to join in on that.

 

We might end up with another Motherwellgate if he does escalate it.

 

Without knowIng the full text of what was said, if I heard guys talking about Mitchell being of a ‘type’ I’d immediately think about a spineless, billy big balled, average footballer who doesn’t give a shit about my team!

 

What would make a footballer like that? Loads of different reasons clearly. Colour? Not a chance.

 

 

 

Spot on. 

 

There are, indeed, too many of Mitchell’s “type” at he club. 

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Dagger Is Back
12 hours ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said:

 

 

No Jake, not really. I wasn’t at Pittodrie. I was speaking to @blairdin and replying to his post about what he heard someone say at the game. Blairdin heard people discussing Mitchell’s “type”. To me “type” refers to someone’s genetic or physical identification, or genotype or phenotype. What else can it refer to? Maybe I’ve worked in science too long? What else does “type” refer to in your world? Leftbacks? We don’t have many of them at the club... his height? :unsure:

 

See I don’t think type refers to someone’s genetic or physical identification, or genotype or phenotype.

 

I really don’t get that link albeit I haven’t heard the rest of the conversation. You’d assume that Blairdin would have stated if racist views were voiced. 

 

There’s many a time you’ll hear someone say ‘x is the type of player you need in a particular kind of game/situation’

 

In my eyes that’s a view based on an individuals character or physical attributes.

 

Bugger all to do with skin colour, religious beliefs or any other old guff that some people want to trot out.

 

I might not agree with everything that Jake says but by God he’s getting a rough ride 

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12 minutes ago, Dagger Is Back said:

 

See I don’t think type refers to someone’s genetic or physical identification, or genotype or phenotype.

 

I really don’t get that link albeit I haven’t heard the rest of the conversation. You’d assume that Blairdin would have stated if racist views were voiced. 

 

There’s many a time you’ll hear someone say ‘x is the type of player you need in a particular kind of game/situation’

 

In my eyes that’s a view based on an individuals character or physical attributes.

 

Bugger all to do with skin colour, religious beliefs or any other old guff that some people want to trot out.

 

I might not agree with everything that Jake says but by God he’s getting a rough ride 

 

A player’s physical attributes and character develop in two ways, the genetic coding he is born with, and the effort he puts in and receives when playing and training. That’s genetics and culture. There is no getting away from that. It’s not unique to footballers either. AbIlity to perform certain tasks comes from your predefined genetic potential + the effort you put in to improve and the training available. 

 

Jake is not getting a hard time at all. He’s launched himself in to a debate people were having and started calling people names and insinuating they are calling him a racist. Sorry Dagger, but I’ve actually remained calm and civil throughout this whole debate, despite being called thick and a bigot by the guy. I could have given him a really hard time for the shite he was coming out with last night, but I chose not to.

 

Edited by Glib and Shameless Crier
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Think this thread shows certain posters have a built in default position. A couple will appear and defend any sort of suspected sectarian or racist behaviour by asking for 100% verifiable  proof. A couple other posters will gladly believe the guilt with almost no evidence. It then descends into The usual bunfight. 

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Dagger Is Back
7 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Think this thread shows certain posters have a built in default position. A couple will appear and defend any sort of suspected sectarian or racist behaviour by asking for 100% verifiable  proof. A couple other posters will gladly believe the guilt with almost no evidence. It then descends into The usual bunfight. 

 

Don’t think I’ve seem anyone defending suspected sectarian or racist behaviour. I’ve seen people either looking for proof or saying that people shouldn’t jump to conclusions.

 

We’ve also seen the kangaroo court approach too. I’ve been part of that too.

 

Do we have racists and bigots in our support? Absolutely. Does it need fixing? Absolutely 

 

That’s something I think most are agreed on

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5 minutes ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said:

 

A player’s physical attributes and character develop in two ways, the genetic coding he is born with, and the effort he puts in and receives when playing and training. That’s genetics and culture. There is no getting away from that. It’s not unique to footballers either. AbIlity to perform certain tasks comes from your predefined genetic potential + the effort you put in to improve and the training available. 

 

Jake is not getting a hard time at all. He’s launched himself in to a debate people were having and started calling people names and insinuating they are calling him a racist. Sorry Dagger, but I’ve actually remained calm and civil throughout this whole debate, despite being called thick and a bigot by the guy. I could have given him a really hard time for the shite he was coming out with last night, but I chose not to.

 

 

Youre trying to push jake into saying it’s either because he is black or because he grew up in the black community. 

 

There are a number of other factors when it comes to a players’ development though.

 

They may simply not have the desire to succeed, they may get distracted, they have negative influences around them with family and friends, they make the wrong decision to join the wrong club at the wrong time etc etc - all of these may lead to a drop in performance. We can all put examples to each of these scenarios but it is up to how the player responds to it that matters. 

 

In Mitchells case, he is playing for the wrong Head Coach and probably has an arrogance from being a Man Utd player that he is better than this. Unfortunately he is looking lost and it is reflecting in his performances. 

 

Your desire to pigeon hole people into genetic codes and cultures is a bit creepy imo 

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Geoff Kilpatrick
14 minutes ago, Dagger Is Back said:

 

Don’t think I’ve seem anyone defending suspected sectarian or racist behaviour. I’ve seen people either looking for proof or saying that people shouldn’t jump to conclusions.

 

We’ve also seen the kangaroo court approach too. I’ve been part of that too.

 

Do we have racists and bigots in our support? Absolutely. Does it need fixing? Absolutely 

 

That’s something I think most are agreed on

Correct 

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16 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Youre trying to push jake into saying it’s either because he is black or because he grew up in the black community. 

 

There are a number of other factors when it comes to a players’ development though.

 

They may simply not have the desire to succeed, they may get distracted, they have negative influences around them with family and friends, they make the wrong decision to join the wrong club at the wrong time etc etc - all of these may lead to a drop in performance. We can all put examples to each of these scenarios but it is up to how the player responds to it that matters. 

 

In Mitchells case, he is playing for the wrong Head Coach and probably has an arrogance from being a Man Utd player that he is better than this. Unfortunately he is looking lost and it is reflecting in his performances. 

 

Your desire to pigeon hole people into genetic codes and cultures is a bit creepy imo 

 

No I’m not. I’m stating facts about what determines a player’s ability. Kindly take your attempts at twisting my words elsewhere Nookie. I have no desire to be provoked in to a suspension. Cheers.

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22 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Youre trying to push jake into saying it’s either because he is black or because he grew up in the black community. 

 

Your desire to pigeon hole people into genetic codes and cultures is a bit creepy imo 

Totally agree, that's exactly what he's doing. Poor stuff. :(

Edited by smiler
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guys its Xmas let’s leave this s***e to the side for a while. Let’s look forward to time with loved ones and plenty grub then cheering on the famous 

Merry Xmas everyone and :fth:

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1 minute ago, Jambojay84 said:

guys its Xmas let’s leave this s***e to the side for a while. Let’s look forward to time with loved ones and plenty grub then cheering on the famous 

Merry Xmas everyone and :fth:

 

Gladly. Merry Christmas everyone. ??

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1 hour ago, To Be Frank said:

 

That’s the second time on this thread you’ve explained it perfectly mate. Hopefully it will sink in this time. When the thread subject  is about any type of potential naughty fan behaviour (flares, offensive songs, damaged seats) you can predict in advance the posters who will be on that thread mounting the “nothing to see here” defence. 

 

Don’t worry about not posting immediately mate, we all have busy lives outside of jkb, especially  this time of year. (ie. it doesn’t make you a “faceless coward”) :whistling:

 

It makes you a faceless coward when you're not willing to admit what you were inferring though. Absolutely pathetic to throw adout accusations like you have to strangers you know nothing about. It's even worse when you backtrack and pretend you didn't.

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49 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Think this thread shows certain posters have a built in default position. A couple will appear and defend any sort of suspected sectarian or racist behaviour by asking for 100% verifiable  proof. A couple other posters will gladly believe the guilt with almost no evidence. It then descends into The usual bunfight. 

 

Spot on

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20 minutes ago, JyTees said:

 

It makes you a faceless coward when you're not willing to admit what you were inferring though. Absolutely pathetic to throw adout accusations like you have to strangers you know nothing about. It's even worse when you backtrack and pretend you didn't.

Read my take of how I interpreted what Frank said. Similarly to usually being able to assume your position is to defend the fans first and not believe anything , others have a default position of thinking “what bad behaviour has to be true”. Truth is probably somewhere in the middle as such there is arseholes and some of the behaviour reported is committed but other times its exaggerated or hasn’t happened.

 

At no point is anyone saying you or any other person (jake for instance) is racist , your default mindset and opinion of Frank means that you will assume something that might not be correct as thats human nature.

Edited by sadj
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The Real Maroonblood
28 minutes ago, Jambojay84 said:

guys its Xmas let’s leave this s***e to the side for a while. Let’s look forward to time with loved ones and plenty grub then cheering on the famous 

Merry Xmas everyone and :fth:

Stop being happy.

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