A Third Gender

[JyTees]

2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

There's a lad on YouTube that takes on these angry folk on campus. It's unbelievable how aggressive these folk are. 

Look up, There are only 2 genders change my mind. 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for that.

 

Consider themselves as victims of violence and assault if referred to by an improper pronoun! Batshit crazy these academic millennials.

[JyTees]

37 minutes ago, Cade said:

You should be allowed to be anything you want to be, legally.

 

Why some folk get so angry about this is staggering.

 

You're advocating the break down of society then.

[ri Alban]

1 hour ago, Herbert said:

 

Ben shaperio is worth a watch as well. 

 

 

 

 

I can't stand the guy. 

[Victorian]

There was recently some utter arsepiece who tried to legally change his age by 10 years.     

[Ulysses]

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

There was recently some utter arsepiece who tried to legally change his age by 10 years.     

 

It was twice as bad as that - 20.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2018/nov/08/i-suffer-under-my-age-dutch-man-seeks-to-legally-change-his-age-video

[Bridge of Djoum]

6 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

A civil servant, and grumpy old pedant of my acquaintance (now sadly deceased) used to harrumph and say "Nouns have gender.  People have sex."  He may well have been right, but I think he might have been a tad less grumpy if he'd been having more of the latter. 

 

Haha!

 

 I love a good curmudgeon.

[Ulysses]

11 minutes ago, Bridge of Djoum said:

 

Haha!

 

 I love a good curmudgeon.

 

I identify as a curmudgeon. 

 

Funny how no-one seems to disagree. 

[Bridge of Djoum]

1 minute ago, Ulysses said:

 

I identify as a curmudgeon. 

 

Funny how no-one seems to disagree. 

So......What's in your pants?

[Ulysses]

3 minutes ago, Bridge of Djoum said:

So......What's in your pants?

 

Ants.  And a bee in my bonnet.

 

Like, duh!

[Bridge of Djoum]

2 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Ants.  And a bee in my bonnet.

 

Like, duh!

I thought that but didn't want to offend by assuming your identity choices.

[Cade]

46 minutes ago, JyTees said:

 

You're advocating the break down of society then.

[Sharpie]

You know if you live long enough you will be able like I do to look back and try and put all the changes in perspective. I go back to when homosexuals were perceived as disgusting queers, the question posed on this thread a couple of times is how will the change affect you,  I can also relate to when every race other than my own had a derogatory name by which they were referred to, that has also changed, believe me the gender situation which I have never had a problem with is just another change we have to learn to live with, the question how does it affect you, I can answer with not at all, the process of time makes it all quite normal and indeed positive

, now I can have friends who have a sun tan all year round, not like my seven month one, men I know who are as they say gay, I can associate with without fear of being considered gay, and even if I was considered by someone as such so what. It does in the learning phase offer some difficulties, one must learn not to use insulting terms which were never seen by the insulter as such because it was how it had always been. President Trump I believe is again considering not having trans gender persons in the military, some of the reason being that they are using the service as a way of obtaining the necessary medical assistance to do so free at the expense of the military, I have some degree of agreement with looking at that. As far as already trans gender I have worked in the past with some female officers who did not require any surgery to change their ability to look after themselves I have no doubt surgery would not change that in any negative manner.

[JyTees]

4 minutes ago, Cade said:

 

Nice emoji. Fantastic contribution.

 

You can't see any problems with somebody trying to legally change their age by 20 years?

 

You believe anyone, legally, should be allowed to be anything they want? 

Edited November 26, 2018 by JyTees

[Sharpie]

3 minutes ago, JyTees said:

 

Nice emoji. Fantastic contribution.

 

You can't see any problems with somebody trying to legally change their age by 20 years?

 

If it was legal and practical and available by surgery, I would be in for a sixty five year removal.

[JyTees]

Just now, bobsharp said:

 

If it was legal and practical and available by surgery, I would be in for a sixty five year removal.

 

? I'd be hot on your heals Bob, perhaps not quite to that extent required but a removal none the less.

[Cade]

The old arsehole in The Netherlands who was trying to change his age is a wind-up merchant.

 

 

 

[Ulysses]

24 minutes ago, Cade said:

The old arsehole in The Netherlands......

 

 

 

 

What you do with your private life is your own concern.   

 

But yes, he is.  And, oddly enough, a friend of some unsavoury right-wingers.  Quelle surprise, as they say in the port of Rotterdam.

[Bridge of Djoum]

3 hours ago, Herbert said:

 

Ben shaperio is worth a watch as well. 

 

 

 

 

Oh dear lord no he isn't.

But I don't want to cross swords...

Edited November 26, 2018 by Bridge of Djoum

[OTT]

I'm really beginning to go off the SNP. I wouldn't consider myself massively left leaning but they seem to have adopted this strange stance of progressive first and at all costs, like, if they have a chance to prove to everybody how inclusive and progressive they are, they will fall over themselves many times over to do it. Catering to a tiny portion of the population and forcing this stuff down everyone elses throat is horrendous. I'm all for a calm and measured approach to this with propositions being backed by fact but this agenda seems to be being pushed by sexually confused teenagers with very little emotional resilience whose voice is amplified by social media. 

 

I feel like people is positions of authority are jumping into this with two feet with zero concern for where the line stops.

 

 

[redm]

Aha, found it. This popped up online back in October and thought it was a really interesting read. 

 

https://medium.com/@connorskellymusic/what-happened-to-our-movement-a1239d7a11d5

 

[i8hibsh]

Oh, just **** right off will you.  All these shitehawks care about is looking nice and progressive to the world. Roll your sleeves up you bunch of parochial ***** and deep dive the real issues a country faces.

[i8hibsh]

11 hours ago, redm said:

I'm really struggling with this subject.

 

On one hand I have no issue whatsoever with people identifying as whatever they please. It makes no end to me by and large if someone wants to use a different name, or present as a different gender to the one assigned at birth, or use different pronouns. If it makes people happier then I'm all for it. 

 

But when self-identification means potentially skewing crime statistics and giving easier access to gender-segregated areas, and access to potentially vulnerable people, then I'm less comfortable with it. I'm even less keen on the current evolution and interpretation of rules on things like 'deadnaming' and folk getting into trouble for saying things like "men have penises and women don't have penises" or similar. I've seen a million crazymental fights about all of this on Twitter lately. 

 

 

Good post and certainly can't be argued with.

[i8hibsh]

3 hours ago, Cade said:

You should be allowed to be anything you want to be, legally.

 

Why some folk get so angry about this is staggering.

 

 

Disagree entirely. You are going to make the law infinite and there for manipulation.

[JyTees]

1 hour ago, Cade said:

The old arsehole in The Netherlands who was trying to change his age is a wind-up merchant.

 

 

 

 

But if he wasn't at the windup you'd be quite prepared to make it lawful?

[i8hibsh]

If someone wishes to identify as Sonic the bleedin hedgehog then go for it  I do not care about them or what they call themselves. I however do not want to have to legally call them or identify them as Sonic the hedgehog thankyou. insanity and taking liberties in the extreme.

[i8hibsh]

One thing that pops to mind is the 'Lizard man'. A guy in America carved his tongue into a lizard tongue and got green scaley tats covering his entire body and identifies as a lizard. Whatever fills his boots, no skin of my nose.

 

That been said, every sane man and woman alive will know he is not a lizard. No-one or no law should make him legally a lizard. He is not a ****ing lizard, no matter how many tats he gets his ginetic structure is male.

 

If someone wants to live a life where they want to invent a gender and live by it then thats up to them. I do not have to play along with their game, THE END.

Edited November 26, 2018 by i8hibsh

[JyTees]

58 minutes ago, OTT said:

I'm really beginning to go off the SNP. I wouldn't consider myself massively left leaning but they seem to have adopted this strange stance of progressive first and at all costs, like, if they have a chance to prove to everybody how inclusive and progressive they are, they will fall over themselves many times over to do it. Catering to a tiny portion of the population and forcing this stuff down everyone elses throat is horrendous. I'm all for a calm and measured approach to this with propositions being backed by fact but this agenda seems to be being pushed by sexually confused teenagers with very little emotional resilience whose voice is amplified by social media. 

 

I feel like people is positions of authority are jumping into this with two feet with zero concern for where the line stops.

 

 

 

I think a lot of SNP supporters will feel exactly the same. The report says this is backed by the public. A consultation of 15000 which was won by a pretty slim majority is hardly overwhelming public support but on that basis the SNP believe it's a good idea to reform the law? I'd be interested to know who was consulted as well. More than likely a few LGBT lobbying groups and a handful  of university campuses.

[i8hibsh]

3 minutes ago, JyTees said:

 

I think a lot of SNP supporters will feel exactly the same. The report says this is backed by the public. A consultation of 15000 which was won by a pretty slim majority is hardly overwhelming public support but on that basis the SNP believe it's a good idea to reform the law? I'd be interested to know who was consulted as well. More than likely a few LGBT lobbying groups and a handful  of university campuses.

 

 

The SNP lost the country about 6 months when they went for the alcohol. Silly silly silly move. We are Scotland and we are quite accepting but you just DON'T touch our bevvy.

 

It is all about good face. They want to create this country that the country simply isn't ready for. Everything they do seems to be more out of vanity than what is actually best for us. Governments need to do unpopular gritty stuff and make decisions that may not be popular, but in important matters, not shit like this. Are they genuinely taking a wage for this nonsense. They are simply wanting to create a fantasy world they can control.

[i8hibsh]

12 minutes ago, JyTees said:

 

I think a lot of SNP supporters will feel exactly the same. The report says this is backed by the public. A consultation of 15000 which was won by a pretty slim majority is hardly overwhelming public support but on that basis the SNP believe it's a good idea to reform the law? I'd be interested to know who was consulted as well. More than likely a few LGBT lobbying groups and a handful  of university campuses.

 

 

Their wee pal budgie smuggling Patrick Harvey and his party would surely have been included. Really got all demographics I am sure. Incase you wonder why I refer to him as 'Budgie smuggler' I have the misfortune of sharing a swimming pool, sauna and steam room with him most mornings. And let me just say it is not pleasant on the eye.

 

[JyTees]

14 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Their wee pal budgie smuggling Patrick Harvey and his party would surely have been included. Really got all demographics I am sure. Incase you wonder why I refer to him as 'Budgie smuggler' I have the misfortune of sharing a swimming pool, sauna and steam room with him most mornings. And let me just say it is not pleasant on the eye.

 

 

My first thought was posters adorning your wall, I'm not sure if I'm relieved at the real reason or not. ?

[Ulysses]

[jake]

?

[Bridge of Djoum]

Seems to me that the folk saying ''I'm not bothered, but'' are the ones posting more than anyone else...

 

[JyTees]

55 minutes ago, Bridge of Djoum said:

Seems to me that the folk saying ''I'm not bothered, but'' are the ones posting more than anyone else...

 

 

Don't think many if any have said they're not bothered. Personally I think it's a ****ing disgrace the Scottish government are wasting time, resources and money on this shit. Looks to me like that's the general consensus.

[Sarah O]

20 hours ago, Harry Potter said:

Whats your opinion on this 3rd gender. ? 

It effects me not a jot - but if it makes more people  happy in their own skin to be acknowledged like this and it brings them peace - I'm supportive of it.

 

 

[doctor jambo]

10 hours ago, Cade said:

The old arsehole in The Netherlands who was trying to change his age is a wind-up merchant.

 

 

 

There are inherent risks in this though

When people get to define themselves it can cause unforeseen problems.

Re-defining your age is one- he could have- until recently re-defined his gender and got to retire earlier , drawn his pension earlier.

OR I could have re-defined my own gender and had 6 months maternity leave instead of 2 weeks paternity leave on full pay, then reverted back- and done this an unlimited number of times.

Or the folks who identify as black- there was a case recently where a white Irish guy got arts council funding from a BEM arts fund.

Or the rapists who redefine themselves and get moved to women's prisons.

Or the New Zealand weight lifter who wins all the medals in competitions because she used to be a guy.

There is a trans child at my kids old school who identifies as a girl- which is fine, but sports day was a bit one sided, and not sure how the school would handle swimming classes/ changing for swimming- sure its fine when they are 5 or 6, but when they are 11-14, or even 15-16?

Of course we need to help people, but I do think  the powers that be are steering into a full on confrontation with little thought for consequence

[Harry Potter]

49 minutes ago, Sarah O said:

It effects me not a jot - but if it makes more people  happy in their own skin to be acknowledged like this and it brings them peace - I'm supportive of it.

 

 

Same thoughts as me .

[doctor jambo]

15 minutes ago, Harry Potter said:

Same thoughts as me .

That would be the case, but it may make a lot of people uncomfortable .  Structurally the country is not ready. Until all areas are gender neutral- toilets, gyms, changing areas, prisons, hospitals,- which can be done but the costs massive, this is hard, 

it will be women who bare the brunt.

i couldn't care less if a woman got changed next to me.

my wife would object strongly if a presurgery trans was in her changing area at the gym/pool whatever.

[Harry Potter]

18 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

That would be the case, but it may make a lot of people uncomfortable .  Structurally the country is not ready. Until all areas are gender neutral- toilets, gyms, changing areas, prisons, hospitals,- which can be done but the costs massive, this is hard, 

it will be women who bare the brunt.

i couldn't care less if a woman got changed next to me.

my wife would object strongly if a presurgery trans was in her changing area at the gym/pool whatever.

True, understand what you are saying.

[Francis Albert]

Is there any real evidence for the "feeling happier in their skin" thesis? I am thinking in particular of people of pre-puberty age being given puberty-blocking drugs. In terms of long term physical and mental effects, do we really have a clue?

 

And at the risk of trivialising, I feel happier in my skin after a couple of drinks, yet the Government tells me that one glass of wine or one beer a day is drinking at an unsafe level and tries to dissuade me by tax and price control, and endless propaganda about the strain I am putting on the NHS.

[redm]

For the record, I’m not against the SNP exploring this idea or running consultation on it. Minorities need to be heard and considered too. 

 

I’m not against changes to the law either. I do have concerns about how the law is changed though and would hope some common sense provisions are included such as recording crime statistics according to biological sex or making a separate category. Things like that. Allowing room for the justice system, courts, maybe even prison management (with social work) to determine risk of allocating trans men and women to most appropriate prisons. Allowing them to take criminal record or behaviour into consideration when doing that. We can’t pretend that biological sex isn’t relevant or important. It is.

 

Man is adult male, woman is adult female. Other definitions are fine as well but let’s not stray too far from the basic, factual, truth. 

[doctor jambo]

6 minutes ago, redm said:

For the record, I’m not against the SNP exploring this idea or running consultation on it. Minorities need to be heard and considered too. 

 

I’m not against changes to the law either. I do have concerns about how the law is changed though and would hope some common sense provisions are included such as recording crime statistics according to biological sex or making a separate category. Things like that. Allowing room for the justice system, courts, maybe even prison management (with social work) to determine risk of allocating trans men and women to most appropriate prisons. Allowing them to take criminal record or behaviour into consideration when doing that. We can’t pretend that biological sex isn’t relevant or important. It is.

 

Man is adult male, woman is adult female. Other definitions are fine as well but let’s not stray too far from the basic, factual, truth. 

Honestly, never thought you would say that.

This is in line with my thinking.

I am concerned, not for me, but for the good ladies in my life.

Mainly because I know what bad men are like.

However the "basic, factual, truth " is in the process of being redefined at the behest of a really tiny tiny minority, then we will need to accept this "new truth" without resistance

 

[eddiepolio]

1 hour ago, doctor jambo said:

There are inherent risks in this though

When people get to define themselves it can cause unforeseen problems.

Re-defining your age is one- he could have- until recently re-defined his gender and got to retire earlier , drawn his pension earlier.

OR I could have re-defined my own gender and had 6 months maternity leave instead of 2 weeks paternity leave on full pay, then reverted back- and done this an unlimited number of times.

Or the folks who identify as black- there was a case recently where a white Irish guy got arts council funding from a BEM arts fund.

Or the rapists who redefine themselves and get moved to women's prisons.

Or the New Zealand weight lifter who wins all the medals in competitions because she used to be a guy.

There is a trans child at my kids old school who identifies as a girl- which is fine, but sports day was a bit one sided, and not sure how the school would handle swimming classes/ changing for swimming- sure its fine when they are 5 or 6, but when they are 11-14, or even 15-16?

Of course we need to help people, but I do think  the powers that be are steering into a full on confrontation with little thought for consequence

 You win this thread. Great post. 

[redm]

24 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

Honestly, never thought you would say that.

This is in line with my thinking.

I am concerned, not for me, but for the good ladies in my life.

Mainly because I know what bad men are like.

However the "basic, factual, truth " is in the process of being redefined at the behest of a really tiny tiny minority, then we will need to accept this "new truth" without resistance

 

 

Like I said, I don’t find this subject easy at all. I’m torn on lots of different parts of it. I want people to live as freely as they can but I struggle when those freedoms mean diminishing too many protections and rights for others. 

 

I hate to delve too deep into what I feel is probably scaremongering in some cases but I am worried about people taking advantage of the opportunity to exploit. Would some take extreme steps to access vulnerable people? Hell yes. That’s a hallmark characteristic with or without gender identification rights. 

 

Plus if we start losing a grasp on statistics we’re no longer able to identify who’s most at need or who’s most significantly impacted. It’s all just meaningless numbers. 

 

I’m refusing to get too annoyed by the trans women who spend their time arguing with people over whether or not they really do have periods. Social media seriously tests my ability to stay open minded sometimes

[Samuel Camazzola]

20 hours ago, AlimOzturk said:

The only problem I have with this is if work places and establishment are forced to introduce non binary toilets and the such.

Similarly, will golf courses need to construct new tees? ⛳ 

[The Internet]

The first argument when these things are brought up is always about public toilets, without fail. 

[JyTees]

School in Brighton has 76 pupils identifying as transgender. Just a coincidence all these kids have arrived at the same school, or something else?

 

I think there may be a generation of kids sueing schools, councils and parents in years to come.

[doctor jambo]

2 minutes ago, JyTees said:

School in Brighton has 76 pupils identifying as transgender. Just a coincidence all these kids have arrived at the same school, or something else?

 

I think there may be a generation of kids sueing schools, councils and parents in years to come.

I read that - its one of those odd non conformist schools is it not?

Free thinking, private school without rules.

Children struggle with identity through their early lives anyway.

I worry that with t'internet there are groups out there who prey on those transient uncertainties.

One of my kids has decided at various points that he is everything short of a unicorn.

We've talked about it and listened and reassured, 

what we did not at any point do is tell him what he was, or rush off to a therapist, or "specialist".

Kids have phases- that is normal.

Sometimes they are unpleasant for the kid, but they pass, and sometimes doing nothing is the best thing- patience.

 

[redm]

6 minutes ago, JyTees said:

School in Brighton has 76 pupils identifying as transgender. Just a coincidence all these kids have arrived at the same school, or something else?

 

I think there may be a generation of kids sueing schools, councils and parents in years to come.

 

Maybe they had/have a rep as an inclusive learning environment so others with trans kids also chose or requested to send their children to that school? Can see how that might happen. 

[Cheile]

14 hours ago, Bridge of Djoum said:

I feel I'm fairly liberal, a centrist kinda guy overall. This 3rd gender issue is bollocks.

 

2 genders. That's all we have. Just 2.

1

 

 

Or no bollocks perhaps?