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Copa Libertadores


Sexton Hardcastle

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Shanks said no

Now ESPN reports that if CONMEBOL decides the game cannot be played in River's stadium,

 

the Copa Libertadores final second leg could be moved directly to Abu Dhabi.

 

The winner would stay in the UAE for the Club World Cup.

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10 minutes ago, martoon said:

Call the 2-2 draw the final and therefore a shared trophy. Alternatively, declare it unrewarded like the 1909 Scottish Cup final...

 

...and hope there's not another final in the future. 

 

Ridic. 

 

 

This is the last two legged final, after this season the final will be a single game at a pre determined neutral venue.

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4 minutes ago, Smithee said:

This is the last two legged final, after this season the final will be a single game at a pre determined neutral venue.

 

Should always have been the case, Smithee. 

 

A final should be just that: a final.

 

The clue is in the word. :)

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21 minutes ago, The Frenchman Returns said:

Now ESPN reports that if CONMEBOL decides the game cannot be played in River's stadium,

 

the Copa Libertadores final second leg could be moved directly to Abu Dhabi.

 

The winner would stay in the UAE for the Club World Cup.

 

I thought you were joking. :lol:

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...a bit disco
1 hour ago, Smithee said:

This is the last two legged final, after this season the final will be a single game at a pre determined neutral venue.

 

I nominate Murrayfield.

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17 minutes ago, ...a bit disco said:

 

I nominate Murrayfield.

 

Some folk can't handle Celtic and our young team singing nasty songs. They'd combust if it was held here :lol:

 

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8 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

Seems the River Plate players were unwilling to play the game when they found out about the injuries to the Boca Juniors players. 

 

A little bit of unity within the madness. Seems the main reaction is embarrassment and even shame in Argentina. 

 

It always is. But nothing changes. 

 

This sort of shit's gone on for so many years now. It's why away fans were banned in the first place, of course. But as long as the hooligans have so much power (including, quite often, control over tickets, money from tickets, and club Presidents dependent on them for their support), there's no chance of anything ever being fixed.

 

Then consider: those pictures which amazed everyone on Thursday of the Boca fans at the training session were of something completely unlawful. No-one at Boca cared about the safety regulations (the Bombonera was over capacity on a non-matchday - ridiculous): all of which is symptomatic of the much broader problem. The "passion" and "intensity" of the rivalry is, apparently, more important than situations in which people could die.

 

It was fascinating to observe CONMEBOL apparently regarding a waterlogged pitch as more important than players being injured on their way to a football match, given how long it took to call the game off. And equally fascinating to see FIFA (meet the new boss, same as the old boss) demand that the game be played, or else. Money doesn't talk; it swears.

 

I couldn't believe the insistence last night that the game would go ahead today. Who were they trying to kid? And on Tuesday, Boca will try and have River disqualified, on the time-honoured, tit for tat grounds of "we were disqualified in 2015, so it's only fair if they are now". A strategy which has zero chance of success - but is all part of the same bollocks. 

 

FIFA, CONMEBOL, FOX, the Argentinian media whipping this game up as though it was life and death, River, Boca, hooligans, the unbelievably inept/corrupt (delete according to taste) police... a plague on all their houses.

Edited by shaun.lawson
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...a bit disco
3 minutes ago, Homme said:

 

Some folk can't handle Celtic and our young team singing nasty songs. They'd combust if it was held here :lol:

 

 

Yeah.

 

Neutral though.

 

:biggrin:

 

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The miserable failings of the police operation are laid bare here:

 

https://www.infobae.com/deportes-2/2018/11/25/donde-estaban-los-barras-y-que-fallo-en-el-operativo-policial-de-la-vergonzosa-superfinal/

 

1. Escorting visiting teams to matches like this always used to be the responsibility of the Federal Police. In 2016, this changed to the Buenos Aires City Police.

 

2. The Boca bus has always taken the same route. It's always been achieved by the police warning their colleagues about 7 to 10 minutes ahead of arrival to clear the area, about 50m from the corner where the bus must pass.

 

3. Yesterday, this communication was not made. An absolute schoolboy error: compounded by distrust between different police forces.

 

4. The City Police have completely lost all control over the hooligans. Their intelligence is years out of date. It's not that they're focusing on the wrong people entirely - they arrested a hooligan head only on Friday - but they're utterly oblivious to which factions have the power now. So when hooligan groups in River shirts gathered in two places yesterday (in one of which, they stole tickets from fans heading to the stadium), the police didn't even realise what was going on.

 

5. So serious is the problem that employees of UTEDYC - the union whose workers are involved in the organisation of sporting events, amongst others - were threatened with death by hooligan groups if ticketless fans weren't allowed in. Sure enough, by 4pm yesterday, 200 ticketless fans were already inside the stadium.

 

6. The article concludes by hinting at a disturbing conspiracy theory, one being speculated on by many yesterday. Namely, that the failure to communicate where the Boca bus was, or to clear the area of hooligans, was deliberate; that rogue elements in the police deliberately sent the bus into an ambush. Easy to suggest, impossible to prove - but it's not something that can be instantly ruled out.

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4 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

The miserable failings of the police operation are laid bare here:

 

https://www.infobae.com/deportes-2/2018/11/25/donde-estaban-los-barras-y-que-fallo-en-el-operativo-policial-de-la-vergonzosa-superfinal/

 

1. Escorting visiting teams to matches like this always used to be the responsibility of the Federal Police. In 2016, this changed to the Buenos Aires City Police.

 

2. The Boca bus has always taken the same route. It's always been achieved by the police warning their colleagues about 7 to 10 minutes ahead of arrival to clear the area, about 50m from the corner where the bus must pass.

 

3. Yesterday, this communication was not made. An absolute schoolboy error: compounded by distrust between different police forces.

 

4. The City Police have completely lost all control over the hooligans. Their intelligence is years out of date. It's not that they're focusing on the wrong people entirely - they arrested a hooligan head only on Friday - but they're utterly oblivious to which factions have the power now. So when hooligan groups in River shirts gathered in two places yesterday (in one of which, they stole tickets from fans heading to the stadium), the police didn't even realise what was going on.

 

5. So serious is the problem that employees of UTEDYC - the union whose workers are involved in the organisation of sporting events, amongst others - were threatened with death by hooligan groups if ticketless fans weren't allowed in. Sure enough, by 4pm yesterday, 200 ticketless fans were already inside the stadium.

 

6. The article concludes by hinting at a disturbing conspiracy theory, one being speculated on by many yesterday. Namely, that the failure to communicate where the Boca bus was, or to clear the area of hooligans, was deliberate; that rogue elements in the police deliberately sent the bus into an ambush. Easy to suggest, impossible to prove - but it's not something that can be instantly ruled out.

Shaun!  you’re back!

 

What tournament are England in at the moment?  :) 

 

How’s Norwich?  Chilly?

 

 

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1 minute ago, Dino Velvet said:

 

 

One of the worst things I've ever seen any football fan or parent do. She should be identified, arrested and locked up.

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13 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

It always is. But nothing changes. 

 

This sort of shit's gone on for so many years now. It's why away fans were banned in the first place, of course. But as long as the hooligans have so much power (including, quite often, control over tickets, money from tickets, and club Presidents dependent on them for their support), there's no chance of anything ever being fixed.

 

Then consider: those pictures which amazed everyone on Thursday of the Boca fans at the training session were of something completely unlawful. No-one at Boca cared about the safety regulations (the Bombonera was over capacity on a non-matchday - ridiculous): all of which is symptomatic of the much broader problem. The "passion" and "intensity" of the rivalry is, apparently, more important than situations in which people could die.

 

It was fascinating to observe CONMEBOL apparently regarding a waterlogged pitch as more important than players being injured on their way to a football match, given how long it took to call the game off. And equally fascinating to see FIFA (meet the new boss, same as the old boss) demand that the game be played, or else. Money doesn't talk; it swears.

 

I couldn't believe the insistence last night that the game would go ahead today. Who were they trying to kid? And on Tuesday, Boca will try and have River disqualified, on the time-honoured, tit for tat grounds of "we were disqualified in 2015, so it's only fair if they are now". A strategy which has zero chance of success - but is all part of the same bollocks. 

 

FIFA, CONMEBOL, FOX, the Argentinian media whipping this game up as though it was life and death, River, Boca, hooligans, the unbelievably inept/corrupt (delete according to taste) police... a plague on all their houses.

 

Yeah

 

Similar situation in Italy but more intense in Argentina 

Edited by Mikey1874
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I was lucky enough to take in a Boca v Independente match at La Bombanera 4 years ago. Got a ticket through a travel company in BA and transport was laid on to and from the ground. Great day out and an amazing atmosphere in the crumbling old stadium.

 

I was told that no away fans were present and didn't seen any bother. I even went into a Boca pub right next to the stadium and was given a nice warm welcome by some 'colourful' locals.

 

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On 25/11/2018 at 22:10, shaun.lawson said:

The miserable failings of the police operation are laid bare here:

 

https://www.infobae.com/deportes-2/2018/11/25/donde-estaban-los-barras-y-que-fallo-en-el-operativo-policial-de-la-vergonzosa-superfinal/

 

1. Escorting visiting teams to matches like this always used to be the responsibility of the Federal Police. In 2016, this changed to the Buenos Aires City Police.

 

2. The Boca bus has always taken the same route. It's always been achieved by the police warning their colleagues about 7 to 10 minutes ahead of arrival to clear the area, about 50m from the corner where the bus must pass.

 

3. Yesterday, this communication was not made. An absolute schoolboy error: compounded by distrust between different police forces.

 

4. The City Police have completely lost all control over the hooligans. Their intelligence is years out of date. It's not that they're focusing on the wrong people entirely - they arrested a hooligan head only on Friday - but they're utterly oblivious to which factions have the power now. So when hooligan groups in River shirts gathered in two places yesterday (in one of which, they stole tickets from fans heading to the stadium), the police didn't even realise what was going on.

 

5. So serious is the problem that employees of UTEDYC - the union whose workers are involved in the organisation of sporting events, amongst others - were threatened with death by hooligan groups if ticketless fans weren't allowed in. Sure enough, by 4pm yesterday, 200 ticketless fans were already inside the stadium.

 

6. The article concludes by hinting at a disturbing conspiracy theory, one being speculated on by many yesterday. Namely, that the failure to communicate where the Boca bus was, or to clear the area of hooligans, was deliberate; that rogue elements in the police deliberately sent the bus into an ambush. Easy to suggest, impossible to prove - but it's not something that can be instantly ruled out.

 

Feckin tinpot :rofl:

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I suggested earlier that we'd never hear the end of this:

 

(a) Boca refuse to play and want River kicked out. Long court case. 

 

(b) Boca win at a neutral venue and River, I suspect, protest that they didn't get a "home" leg. Long court case. 

 

(c) River win and Boca protest about the coach attack. Long court case. 

 

If only one, or the other, had played a final of this magnitude the right way: 4-1 up after 49 minutes and the opposition tucked away, silent, and long gone by number 5.

 

 

Edited by martoon
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9 minutes ago, Sooperstar said:

Bernabeu on the 9th of December.

 

 

Haha insane! So they will now host the game in a city and country whereby there will be 10's of thousands of BOTH sets of fans and many will travel too. Should be fun and games.

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4 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

Further proof that the governing bodies don't give two ****s about fans.

 

More than anything the 99% of decent River Plate fans have been badly let down.

 

Who is thinking of them? 

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18 minutes ago, Sooperstar said:

There is no away goals rule anyway.

Didn't know that, cheers. I checked, it'll be extra time and penalties if required. 

 

They're going to make a ******* fortune out of this game with the attention and build up, we might even see the final played in Spain every year as it'll be going to one off finals at neutral venues after this year. 

Edited by Smithee
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9 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Didn't know that, cheers. I checked, it'll be extra time and penalties if required. 

 

They're going to make a ******* fortune out of this game with the attention and build up, we might even see the final played in Spain every year as it'll be going to one off finals at neutral venues after this year. 

Interesting point. Makes you wonder how long it will be until UEFA decide to head to the states for the CL Final.

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34 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

More than anything the 99% of decent River Plate fans have been badly let down.

 

Who is thinking of them? 

 

I wonder if CONMEBOL realise that, by making it a game without any "home supporters" is going to completely derail this as a spectacle.

 

Doubt I'll watch it now.

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1 minute ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

I wonder if CONMEBOL realise that, by making it a game without any "home supporters" is going to completely derail this as a spectacle.

 

Doubt I'll watch it now.

That doesn't make any sense, is the world cup or Champions league final completely derailed as a spectacle?

 

Thousands of Argentinian fans will be there and it'll be a bigger spectacle than ever before.

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3 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

I wonder if CONMEBOL realise that, by making it a game without any "home supporters" is going to completely derail this as a spectacle.

 

Doubt I'll watch it now.

 

There will be plenty of BOTH sets of fans at the game. Massive Argentinian population in Spain and lots will travel. Which is a big advantage to Boca having already played the 'home' fixture in front of only their fans. 

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Just now, Smithee said:

That doesn't make any sense, is the world cup or Champions league final completely derailed as a spectacle?

 

Thousands of Argentinian fans will be there and it'll be a bigger spectacle than ever before.

 

 

Totally agree. If anything I think it will be better to watch!!! Really surprised and pleased at this outcome though I still think there will be fun and games given there will inevitably be thousands of fans of both sides in Madrid. 

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3 minutes ago, magicTs said:

 

There will be plenty of BOTH sets of fans at the game. Massive Argentinian population in Spain and lots will travel. Which is a big advantage to Boca having already played the 'home' fixture in front of only their fans. 

 

Have they said how they will sell tickets?

 

Could it be closed doors?

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2 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Have they said how they will sell tickets?

 

Could it be closed doors?

Unlikely, gate receipts at an 80k stadium will run into millions

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4 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Have they said how they will sell tickets?

 

Could it be closed doors?

 

 

According to this which appears to be accurate and constantly updating "Both clubs will receive the same ticket allocation, meaning River will effectively lose their home advantage". Seems like utter madness to simply move the fixture elsewhere and now allow both sets of fans when there was trouble with only one set but should be interesting viewing for the neutral! 

 

https://en.as.com/en/2018/11/29/football/1543493170_260687.html

 

River Plate to be fined $400,000 and have to play 2 games behind closed doors. 

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I'm sure the Argies will travel in huge numbers for this. They're usually one of the best supported teams at World Cups.

 

I fancied it myself so checked out hotel prices in Madrid for that weekend and they were extortionate. Reckon they started getting snapped up as soon as the announcement was made.

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9 hours ago, magicTs said:

 

There will be plenty of BOTH sets of fans at the game. Massive Argentinian population in Spain and lots will travel. Which is a big advantage to Boca having already played the 'home' fixture in front of only their fans. 

 

 

9 hours ago, Smithee said:

That doesn't make any sense, is the world cup or Champions league final completely derailed as a spectacle?

 

Thousands of Argentinian fans will be there and it'll be a bigger spectacle than ever before.

 

£1,500 for a flight from Buenos Aires the Wednesday before the game and back the Wednesday after it. 

 

The game is meant to be played at each teams home venue. River put at a disadvantage because they’ve played one away leg and one at a neutral venue. 

 

Lets not pretend that this board wouldn’t be spitting feathers if Hearts had a home game moved 6,000 miles away because of the actions of a few. 

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Lord Beni of Gorgie

Aye, this is what happens when people don't behave themselves......

 

....However, the subplot, the South Americans are desperate to have the Copa given more European exposure, almost as if they planned it

Edited by Sir Gio
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14 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

Aye, this is what happens when people don't behave themselves......

 

....However, the subplot, the South Americans are desperate to have the Copa given more European exposure, almost as if they planned it

 

Spot on with this as now everyone is talking about it where they would have not been interested previously.

 

There is no such thing as bad press.

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