How Would You Vote in IndyRef2?

[Roxy Hearts]

20 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Curious the SNP independence supporting Scottish Government has turned down taking on half of VAT revenues.

 

Something about us being better off being part of UK.

 

Maybe a new strategy to keep the status quo. 

VAT is a trap. Westminster would reduce the budget. How any person can trust Westminster is beyond fair minded thinking. 

[Mikey1874]

4 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

VAT is a trap. Westminster would reduce the budget. How any person can trust Westminster is beyond fair minded thinking. 

 

How anyone can trust the SNP Scottish Government is the question. 

 

But VAT might indeed be a trap. Every new power the SNP Scottish Government rejects can be used against them.

Edited May 9, 2019 by Mikey1874

[Roxy Hearts]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

How anyone can trust the SNP Scottish Government is the question. 

I think they've proven they can. Been in government a while. 

[pablo]

8 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

VAT is a trap. Westminster would reduce the budget. How any person can trust Westminster is beyond fair minded thinking. 

 

Ha ha the VAT thing would be hilarious if it wasn't so serious.

 

Have some proper powers devolved to you, nah we're not ready for the real stuff.

 

They don't want it because it demonstrates that we will raise less tax than we need. Uncomfortable truth time.

 

You Nationalists are not only deluded,  but dangerous. 

[ri Alban]

3 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Ha ha the VAT thing would be hilarious if it wasn't so serious.

 

Have some proper powers devolved to you, nah we're not ready for the real stuff.

 

They don't want it because it demonstrates that we will raise less tax than we need. Uncomfortable truth time.

 

You Nationalists are not only deluded,  but dangerous. 

Give all powers and the licence powers for the North sea.

 

As for dangerous, you thick loyalists will one day leave your parents homes. Maybe.

[pablo]

15 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Give all powers and the licence powers for the North sea.

 

As for dangerous, you thick loyalists will one day leave your parents homes. Maybe.

 

Aussie. You do realise that Independence would mean taking on these responsibilities and having Barnett turned off?

 

Maybe if we convince the EU to let us in quickly enough,  they'll cover your welfare benefits.

[Mikey1874]

Then there is the issue of powers coming back after Brexit. UK Government claim technical reasons for not immediately handing all the powers to Scotland. The SNP / SNP Scottish Government demamd all the powers now. 

 

So there are no technicalities in doing that. But there are technicalities over VAT? 

[Roxy Hearts]

35 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Ha ha the VAT thing would be hilarious if it wasn't so serious.

 

Have some proper powers devolved to you, nah we're not ready for the real stuff.

 

They don't want it because it demonstrates that we will raise less tax than we need. Uncomfortable truth time.

 

You Nationalists are not only deluded,  but dangerous. 

Give us all our powers. Not trap laden nonsense. 

[Hasselhoff]

7 hours ago, coconut doug said:

If indy supporters want to win they must convince 50% +1 of Those who vote. According to the most recent poll we are at 49%. 

How much do you think it will take to set up the infrastructure for Indy , what will it be spent on and what is your source?

 

More importantly why are you content deny Scotland's right to exist for a few pounds of income (in your eyes anyway).  The term nationalist is not accurate, have you not understood that for Indy supporters the aspiration is internationalism with Scotland being one of the nations in a multinational partnership i.e. the EU.

 

The term nationalist is best kept for Farage, Ukip and the Tories who think they can resurrect the empire. 

 

You clearly have very little affinity with the notion of being Scottish if you are prepared to deny it for a few pounds and put your faith in Gers figures. 

 

 

 

A recent poll also said that below 40% wanted to leave the UK. There was then a fuss from SNP people that it was a confusing question moving away from yes/no to leave/remain. The Electoral Commission said it was a boost for yes last time and Salmond knew what he was doing by gearing the question that way. Pretty disrespectful of nationalists thinking that the people of Scotland are too stupid to notice the difference when answering a poll though. "Stop talking Scotland down!!"

 

Between 1.5 and 2 billion is a more realistic amount 

https://www.centreonconstitutionalchange.ac.uk/blog/set-costs-independent-scotland. Do you agree with £200m or do you think £1.5bn is more likely?

 

I'm Scottish now. Living a poorer lifestyle and separating ourselves from our friends and family in the rest of the UK just to wave a flag about doesn't really do it for me. 

 

GERS meant something when the numbers were on your side but now that they aren't it is all nonsense because it exposes the Yes economic argument? If the figures are meaningless, does that mean you are willing to go independent without the faintest idea of whether we will be better off or not? Why do the Scottish government bother with GERS if it means nothing? 

 

I am happy to be in the UK with the English, Welsh and Northern Irish. We have common values, language (mostly), currency and obviously location. We are not oppressed in the slightest and the constant grievance-mongering is turning people off the SNP. 

 

Yes, they will continue to win elections since other votes get diluted but there is no way that Scotland will vote for Indy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cade]

1 minute ago, Hasselhoff said:

 

We have common values

 

 

Not for around the last 30 years we haven't

[Mikey1874]

Another Referendum is likely. It could be part of a Coalition deal after the next General Election.

 

People talking about the Yes support being 40% or 49% should be aware of the movement in a campaign. That is also the crucial point in choosing the right time for another Referendum.

 

Yes made good progress the last campaign to get to 45%. If it made half the progress it would win. 

Edited May 9, 2019 by Mikey1874

[Roxy Hearts]

1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

Another Referendum is likely. It could be part of a Coalition deal after the next General Election.

 

People talking about the Yes support being 40% or 49% should be aware of the movement in a campaign. That is also the crucial point in choosing the right time for another Referendum.

 

Yes made good progress the last campaign to get to 45%. If it made half the progress it would win. 

Sensible post. Can't be bothered with all the UK family and friends that we will lose nonsense and calling them foreigners. I have both in England and they will still be who they are. I've friends and family in Australia and Canada. People need to get a grip. Scotland wants to govern itself for more democratic reasons and nothing else. 

[coconut doug]

1 hour ago, Hasselhoff said:

 

A recent poll also said that below 40% wanted to leave the UK. There was then a fuss from SNP people that it was a confusing question moving away from yes/no to leave/remain. The Electoral Commission said it was a boost for yes last time and Salmond knew what he was doing by gearing the question that way. Pretty disrespectful of nationalists thinking that the people of Scotland are too stupid to notice the difference when answering a poll though. "Stop talking Scotland down!!"

I've not much idea as to what your point is here. The recent poll carried out by Scotland in Union was i believe not carried out by a regular polling company and not representative of Scottish voters. The was no single question relating to Indy, people were asked to assess their level of committment to Indy as were those who supported the union. This led to a lot of confusion amongst both indy and unionist supporters and the poll was discredited for that reason as well. Those polling companies who do play by the rules are showing a statistical dead heat. http://scotgoespop.blogspot.com/2019/04/westminster-shudders-as-sensational.html

 

1 hour ago, Hasselhoff said:

 

Between 1.5 and 2 billion is a more realistic amount 

https://www.centreonconstitutionalchange.ac.uk/blog/set-costs-independent-scotland. Do you agree with £200m or do you think £1.5bn is more likely? This is an ancient argument (government propaganda) countered by Patrick Dunleavy an expert in the field

 Dunleavy claims in an article with LSE that the Govt figures were calculated by assuming that Scotland would need 180 new ministries costing £15million each which is universally dismissed. I wonder why and how the government came up with this figue.There is though no major argument around the cost of seeting up departmennts to deal with the functions Scotland does not currently carry out. It is broadly agreed to be around £200 million. The costs of disentangling the the tax and benefits system are claimed to be the biggest costs of around £1.5billion and there is some dispute here. To give you a flavour of the quality of his research and argumentation i'll use this quote. "The two huge set-up costs lie in tax collection and benefits distribution. One may fairly say that these (especially the latter) are things that the UK does not do very well, and that an independent Scotland could do better. The point is that on independence day and for quite some time afterwards they will still be done by HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) and the Department of Work and Pensions (DWP) respectively. Scotland would not be able to make any changes in tax rates, tax bases, benefit rates, or benefit entitlements until it had transferred all tax collection to Revenue Scotland and set up its own version of DWP."  What do you think of the last sentence in particular? Has this Oxford professor nailed it?

 

I'm Scottish now. Living a poorer lifestyle and separating ourselves from our friends and family in the rest of the UK just to wave a flag about doesn't really do it for me. 

 

We wont be separating ourselves from anybody. We have a common travel agreement that has just been renewed. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/britain-and-ireland-to-sign-common-travel-area-deal-1.3884176

 

We will of course face restrictions travelling elsewhere but that will not apply to Scottish citizens if we are independent and in the EU. Some of us have family and friends in Europe too.

Indy is not about waving a flag around, it is about making our country a better place and better reflecting the views and wishes of those who live here rather than having somebody else's views imposed on us see EU membeship, Austerity, Nuclear weapons and much,much more.

 

GERS meant something when the numbers were on your side but now that they aren't it is all nonsense because it exposes the Yes economic argument? If the figures are meaningless, does that mean you are willing to go independent without the faintest idea of whether we will be better off or not? Why do the Scottish government bother with GERS if it means nothing? 

Gers are flawed but they may well be the best indicator we have . Remove debt repayments and inappropriate defence costs and they might be more representative. And don't forget the learned professor's point that taxation can be managed "better" in an indy Scotland.

 

I am happy to be in the UK with the English, Welsh and Northern Irish. We have common values, language (mostly), currency and obviously location. We are not oppressed in the slightest and the constant grievance-mongering is turning people off the SNP. 

I am no longer happy to be in the UK. i cannot accept that values have enough commonality to justify our wishes and aspirations being subjugated by the UK majority. I feel more affinity with Europeans rather than UK isolationists. I prefer Republicanism like Germany or France to our sycophantic Royalism. I like democracy through proportional representation rather than FPTP and an appointed House of Lords. I'd prefer to live in a country with a greater degree of equality like virtually all in the EU. I dont want to live in a country that has become an international laughing stock because of the corruption and ineptitude of those who govern us. Above all though i dont want to live in a country that still has delusions of power and military aspirations to get involved in wars all around the world at the behest of our so-called best pals the USA.

 

A near constant Tory government is a pretty potent form of oppression for all the disadvantaged in the UK

 

Yes, they will continue to win elections since other votes get diluted but there is no way that Scotland will vote for Indy.

It's now or never.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hasselhoff]

3 hours ago, coconut doug said:

 

 

 

There were 2 polls actually, both initiated by Scotland in Union, but carried out by Survation - hardly an unknown polling company and judging by the following excerpt from Wikipedia very representative of Scottish voters. 

 

"Survation were the most active and accurate opinion polling company (online and telephone) during the Scottish Independence Referendum campaign in which the final result was 55% for “No” Survation’s eve of polling day telephone poll was very narrowly more accurate than Ipsos Mori, who also used a telephone-based methodology."

 

From November 2008 - 40% want to leave the UK

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/poll-60-of-scots-would-back-remain-in-new-scottish-independence-vote-1-4832164

 

From April 2019 - 39% want to leave the UK

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-04-25/poll-says-34-of-scots-don-t-want-another-independence-referendum

 

The polls show the Scottish are clearly consistently bad at misunderstanding polls. 

 

As to your point about the set up costs, we were meant to be fully independent by March 2016. HMRC and DWP would need to change their systems to support an independent Scotland and whatever decisions they make differently (unless we just keep it the same as what we have currently). Despite moaning about power grabs continually, the SNP bottled it with benefits and has handed it back to the UK to manage until 2022 at least. 

 

The "learned professor" as you put it didn't say "can" like you quoted, he said "they could do better" when it came to taxation. Scotland could equally well do worse, especially considering the £10bn Barnett consequentials cease on day 1, or do you want the UK to keep giving those too until we are ready?

 

How long would this transition period last for where the rUK run Scotland until we are ready to have our own systems? It's as bad as using the pound while the rUK are in charge of interest rates (and the new currency option is just as bad an option)

 

"it's now or never" - opportunism at its finest. If independence is inevitable, what's the big rush? Put independence as no.1 item on 2021 manifesto, rather than the following wooly summary and let the Scottish electorate decide whether they back it. 

 

"This election won’t decide whether or not Scotland will become independent - but a vote for the SNP will reinforce the right of the Scottish Parliament to decide when a referendum should happen. It will make sure that Scotland’s future is always in Scotland’s hands."

 

 

[Hasselhoff]

After Sturgeon giving Davidson a hard time over her mic error the other day and a leaflet from the Tories mentioning brexit only once, it is pretty amusing that the SNP made a complete mess of a mail merge and tens of thousands of letters all went out with random names at each address. No doubt the Tories, Westminster or MI5 were to blame though! 

 

 

[Roxy Hearts]

15 minutes ago, Hasselhoff said:

After Sturgeon giving Davidson a hard time over her mic error the other day and a leaflet from the Tories mentioning brexit only once, it is pretty amusing that the SNP made a complete mess of a mail merge and tens of thousands of letters all went out with random names at each address. No doubt the Tories, Westminster or MI5 were to blame though! 

 

 

You really are British! Whatever that is? I don't even know what happened but obviously that moron Davidson has been useless, again. Imagine if Nicola Sturgeon got it as easy as that moron. 

[ri Alban]

1 hour ago, Hasselhoff said:

After Sturgeon giving Davidson a hard time over her mic error the other day and a leaflet from the Tories mentioning brexit only once, it is pretty amusing that the SNP made a complete mess of a mail merge and tens of thousands of letters all went out with random names at each address. No doubt the Tories, Westminster or MI5 were to blame though! 

 

 

That'll do donkey, that'll do. 

A diet sheet wouldn't go amiss for the Hypocrite tank commander.

[Harry Potter]

18 hours ago, ri Alban said:

That'll do donkey, that'll do. 

A diet sheet wouldn't go amiss for the Hypocrite tank commander.

Very cheeky

[Ally Bee]

21 hours ago, ri Alban said:

That'll do donkey, that'll do. 

A diet sheet wouldn't go amiss for the Hypocrite tank commander.

 

Typically offensive comment against a woman who gave birth only 6 months ago.

 

Alex Salmond & Natalie McGarry are both a bit chubby too. A few months of porridge will soon sort them out though I suppose.

[manaliveits105]

Nice to see the SNP party conference and the march in Glasgow recently was like a Brigadoon extras reunion 

ridiculous 

it will still be a NAW ! 

[frankblack]

3 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

Nice to see the SNP party conference and the march in Glasgow recently was like a Brigadoon extras reunion 

ridiculous 

it will still be a NAW ! 

 

The brutal truth here is that they are counting on the remain vote to switch to independence and the two are fundamentally incompatible.

 

People opposed to leaving the EU will never vote for leaving the rest of the UK as the latter will have a more prominent effect on their financial stability.

[XB52]

5 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

The brutal truth here is that they are counting on the remain vote to switch to independence and the two are fundamentally incompatible.

 

People opposed to leaving the EU will never vote for leaving the rest of the UK as the latter will have a more prominent effect on their financial stability.

You don't honestly believe that do you.  The vast majority of remain voters are SNP/independence backers. Of course there are independence.voters who voted leave, just like there are no voters who voted remain but what you posted is just wrong as you well know.  We will see in less than 2 weeks which one of is correct though

[frankblack]

48 minutes ago, XB52 said:

You don't honestly believe that do you.  The vast majority of remain voters are SNP/independence backers. Of course there are independence.voters who voted leave, just like there are no voters who voted remain but what you posted is just wrong as you well know.  We will see in less than 2 weeks which one of is correct though

 

I don't agre with your assertion that the vast majority of remain voters would back independence.  Its quite simple common sense - people who are sick of referendums and consider them to be destructive will not want to vote for something even more destructive in an Indy 2 Referendum.

 

In a couple of weeks I expect the Brexit party to do serious damage to all parties.  What we can take from this EU election, I don't know.  I think this is just a way for leave voters to express their anger at both Westminster big parties.

Edited May 12, 2019 by frankblack

[coatbridgejambo]

On 18/09/2018 at 19:43, Gorgiewave said:

No, whenever it is.

This.

[Class of 75]

3 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

I don't agre with your assertion that the vast majority of remain voters would back independence.  Its quite simple common sense - people who are sick of referendums and consider them to be destructive will not want to vote for something even more destructive in an Indy 2 Referendum.

 

In a couple of weeks I expect the Brexit party to do serious damage to all parties.  What we can take from this EU election, I don't know.  I think this is just a way for leave voters to express their anger at both Westminster big parties.

I think the SNP will be as shocked as the 2 main parties. Brexit Party polling around 10% in Scotland. Interesting watching the Andrew Marr show this morning and seeing him resort to personal attacks on Farage in an effort to discredit him. Even the BBC are worried. Interesting times ahead. 

[Class of 75]

4 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

The brutal truth here is that they are counting on the remain vote to switch to independence and the two are fundamentally incompatible.

 

People opposed to leaving the EU will never vote for leaving the rest of the UK as the latter will have a more prominent effect on their financial stability.

This 

[XB52]

4 hours ago, Class of 75 said:

I think the SNP will be as shocked as the 2 main parties. Brexit Party polling around 10% in Scotland. Interesting watching the Andrew Marr show this morning and seeing him resort to personal attacks on Farage in an effort to discredit him. Even the BBC are worried. Interesting times ahead. 

Pretty sure you will not be quoting your post after the results are in. Brexit party will take votes from Tories and Labour

Edited May 12, 2019 by XB52

[Roxy Hearts]

Hate Unionists with a passion I thought I never had! Listening to the garbage today during those to playing. Our country has to grow up but won't do so tied to the stinking UK. 

[Gorgiewave]

2 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Hate Unionists with a passion I thought I never had! Listening to the garbage today during those to playing. Our country has to grow up but won't do so tied to the stinking UK. 

 

Hate-filled.

[frankblack]

1 hour ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Hate Unionists with a passion I thought I never had! Listening to the garbage today during those to playing. Our country has to grow up but won't do so tied to the stinking UK. 

 

That is exactly the sort of attitude that will dissuade enough voters from backing Independence.

Edited May 12, 2019 by frankblack

[redjambo]

11 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

The brutal truth here is that they are counting on the remain vote to switch to independence and the two are fundamentally incompatible.

 

People opposed to leaving the EU will never vote for leaving the rest of the UK as the latter will have a more prominent effect on their financial stability.

 

Nice in theory, but as a Remainer, switching my vote to Independence (I voted against, last time out) is exactly what I'm going to do. For two main reasons: (i)  I'm a European and believe in the EU project, so am hoping that an independent Scotland will join the EU. (ii) The results of the Brexit referendum showed exactly how out of kilter Scotland and England are. I refuse to be dragged along the road of petty xenophobia that is being taken by so many in England at the moment.

 

The question is, will there be many more like me or not? I'm not so sure there will be.

 

[redjambo]

1 hour ago, Gorgiewave said:

 

Hate-filled.

 

4 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

That is exactly the sort of attitude that will dissuade enough voters from backing Independence.

 

Indeed. This sort of attitude from many independence supporters put me off voting for independence the last time out. But there are idiots on both sides, and I'm more content to ignore them now.

[pablo]

1 hour ago, redjambo said:

 

Nice in theory, but as a Remainer, switching my vote to Independence (I voted against, last time out) is exactly what I'm going to do. For two main reasons: (i)  I'm a European and believe in the EU project, so am hoping that an independent Scotland will join the EU. (ii) The results of the Brexit referendum showed exactly how out of kilter Scotland and England are. I refuse to be dragged along the road of petty xenophobia that is being taken by so many in England at the moment.

 

The question is, will there be many more like me or not? I'm not so sure there will be.

 

 

I'd guess not. Using Edinburgh as an example, which I know is probably not that indicative of Scotland as a whole, but as we'll mostly be Hearts fans from Edinburgh, relevant. 61% of us voted Remain in 2014 and only 24% voted leave in 2016. You only need to work and live in the City to know there's no correlation between the two referendums.

 

Hopefully Edinburgh will never be dragged out of the UK against our will , or something 

[frankblack]

7 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

Nice in theory, but as a Remainer, switching my vote to Independence (I voted against, last time out) is exactly what I'm going to do. For two main reasons: (i)  I'm a European and believe in the EU project, so am hoping that an independent Scotland will join the EU. (ii) The results of the Brexit referendum showed exactly how out of kilter Scotland and England are. I refuse to be dragged along the road of petty xenophobia that is being taken by so many in England at the moment.

 

The question is, will there be many more like me or not? I'm not so sure there will be.

 

 

While I respect your view, I don't see too many people here identifying themselves as European first.

 

I think the decision of what to vote for will boil down to economics and Independence will get torn apart as unplanned and a financial disaster that would see us begging to get back in to the UK within a decade.

Edited May 13, 2019 by frankblack

[frankblack]

54 minutes ago, Hunky Dory said:

 

Spot on.  Who can forget the US, Ireland, Egypt, Jordan, Iraq, Israel, India, South Africa, Australia, Malaysia, Pakistan, Sudan, Ghana, Sri Lanka, Malta, Jamaica, Trinidad, Nigeria, Sierra Leone, Kenya, Tanzania, Somoa, Malawi, Uganda, Barbados, Maldives, Mauritius, Yemen, Nauru, Bahamas, Qatar, Bahrain, Fiji, Saint Lucia, Canada, New Zealand, Saint Kitts etc. all crawling back to the UK after experiencing financial ruin.

 

And the award for the least relevant answer goes to...

 

Most of those countries got independence before my parents were born and they retired some time ago. A number are complete shiteholes or terrible examples of democracy, and if that is what you want post Independence we are truly ****ed.

Edited May 13, 2019 by frankblack

[Boris]

19 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

In a couple of weeks I expect the Brexit party to do serious damage to all parties.  What we can take from this EU election, I don't know.  I think this is just a way for leave voters to express their anger at both Westminster big parties.

 

It will be interesting to see the geographical spread of Brexit Party support.  Obviously it will be greatest in England, however how it does in Scotland will be interesting, and at which party(ies) expense.

 

If, for example, the Tory vote haemorrhages toward Brexit Party across the England, how hard is it then for the Tory Party in Scotland to say, vote for us?  Because it would be quite obvious what was being elected, despite Davidson's less bullish approach to policy.  Equally so for the Labour Party.

 

Even more interesting will be how Brexit Party do in Scotland - where will they take their votes from?  Tories?  Labour?  SNP?  All three?

 

If we as a nation (the UK) resort to the likes of Farage dictating terms and policy then it is a sad, sad day for us all.  

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

 

While I respect your view, I don't see too many people here identifying themselves as European first.

 

I think the decision of what to vote for will boil down to economics and Independence will get torn apart as unplanned and a financial disaster that would see us begging to get back in to the UK within a decade.

 

I can't ever think of calling or classing myself as European.

 

I'm Scottish first and foremost then I'm British.

[Alan_R]

NHS could be part of US trade deal.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-donald-trump-nhs-us-trade-deal-brexit-torture-a7548156.html?fbclid=IwAR2AQF6eFZ8TY3AVSJ0gUlQOW1XsEZK6GLuvSZk-7vI4Wa8cW-XJ6YlekxQ

 

Remember the lies 'vote no to protect EU status and the nhs'

 

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

13 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

It will be interesting to see the geographical spread of Brexit Party support.  Obviously it will be greatest in England, however how it does in Scotland will be interesting, and at which party(ies) expense.

 

If, for example, the Tory vote haemorrhages toward Brexit Party across the England, how hard is it then for the Tory Party in Scotland to say, vote for us?  Because it would be quite obvious what was being elected, despite Davidson's less bullish approach to policy.  Equally so for the Labour Party.

 

Even more interesting will be how Brexit Party do in Scotland - where will they take their votes from?  Tories?  Labour?  SNP?  All three?

 

If we as a nation (the UK) resort to the likes of Farage dictating terms and policy then it is a sad, sad day for us all.  

 

Equally there will be many who would say it's a sad sad day that the Tories dictate terms & policy etc, or Labour or the Lib Dems or up here in Scotland the SNP etc etc.

 

It's all down to opinions Boris, and mine's is that I'm not enamoured about any of them as they are all as bad as each other, they all lie through their teeth all the time, that's my opinion.

[Boris]

3 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Equally there will be many who would say it's a sad sad day that the Tories dictate terms & policy etc, or Labour or the Lib Dems or up here in Scotland the SNP etc etc.

 

It's all down to opinions Boris, and mine's is that I'm not enamoured about any of them as they are all as bad as each other, they all lie through their teeth all the time, that's my opinion.

 

I get what you are saying, but Farage is no democrat, IMO.  I'm no fan of the Tories, but at least they have a semblance of propriety (or used to anyways).

 

[SE16 3LN]

46 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

I get what you are saying, but Farage is no democrat, IMO.  I'm no fan of the Tories, but at least they have a semblance of propriety (or used to anyways).

 

What's he been saying now?

[Roxy Hearts]

12 hours ago, Gorgiewave said:

 

Hate-filled.

Yep! 

[Roxy Hearts]

10 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

 

Indeed. This sort of attitude from many independence supporters put me off voting for independence the last time out. But there are idiots on both sides, and I'm more content to ignore them now.

I'm referring to that awful institution in Govan! The songs and attitude. Riles me. 

[Gorgiewave]

56 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

Yep! 

 

Keep going. You're an asset to our side.

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Gorgiewave said:

 

Keep going. You're an asset to our side.

Likewise!

[Boris]

2 hours ago, SE16 3LN said:

What's he been saying now?

 

Nothing new, just his usual bullshit about betrayal etc

 

Now saying a vote for his party is a vote for no deal.  Why didn't he say that back during the referendum?  He's a complete charlatan.

 

I just do not trust him one iota.  Snake oil salesman imo.

[SE16 3LN]

3 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

Nothing new, just his usual bullshit about betrayal etc

 

Now saying a vote for his party is a vote for no deal.  Why didn't he say that back during the referendum?  He's a complete charlatan.

 

I just do not trust him one iota.  Snake oil salesman imo.

Right sorry, I thought he'd done more than the usual. I still think he broadly supports the democratic process when it suits him though, however unsavoury his views. Remember, he left UKIP because they were racist. ?

Edited May 13, 2019 by SE16 3LN
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[frankblack]

4 hours ago, Boris said:

 

It will be interesting to see the geographical spread of Brexit Party support.  Obviously it will be greatest in England, however how it does in Scotland will be interesting, and at which party(ies) expense.

 

If, for example, the Tory vote haemorrhages toward Brexit Party across the England, how hard is it then for the Tory Party in Scotland to say, vote for us?  Because it would be quite obvious what was being elected, despite Davidson's less bullish approach to policy.  Equally so for the Labour Party.

 

Even more interesting will be how Brexit Party do in Scotland - where will they take their votes from?  Tories?  Labour?  SNP?  All three?

 

If we as a nation (the UK) resort to the likes of Farage dictating terms and policy then it is a sad, sad day for us all.  

 

The Brexit party is a party that shouldn't have needed to exist.  It exists as the only way Leave voters can make their feelings known against the parties which are perceived to have decided to ignore the Brexit Referendum for their own political agendas.

 

Labour, Tories, and Lib Dems will suffer.  I think the SNP too but to a much lesser extent.

 

I don't personally like Farage but he is more tolerable than Sturgeon, with fewer grievances.

 

[Boris]

7 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

I don't personally like Farage but he is more tolerable than Sturgeon, with fewer grievances.

 

 

Each to their own, I suppose.

 

I'll leave it there.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

24 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

The Brexit party is a party that shouldn't have needed to exist.  It exists as the only way Leave voters can make their feelings known against the parties which are perceived to have decided to ignore the Brexit Referendum for their own political agendas.

 

Labour, Tories, and Lib Dems will suffer.  I think the SNP too but to a much lesser extent.

 

I don't personally like Farage but he is more tolerable than Sturgeon, with fewer grievances.

 

 

And if you take Farage at his word, he himself would have been nowhere near British politics again either, he wouldn't have needed to if the referendum result had been fulfilled like both the Tories & Labour had promised to do so at the last GE.

The only reason Farage is back on the scene and front & centre again is because of the incompetence and inability of both the Tories & Labour to get brexit over the line and in doing so I think that Farage is here to stay or at least until brexit is actually fully delivered.

Edited May 13, 2019 by Jambo-Jimbo