Serena Williams

[graygo]

The Herald Sun in Australia is getting battered for showing a caricature of Serena having her meltdown in the US Open last week.

 

Not for me, pretty good likeness in my opinion and actually quite funny too.

 

 

[jack D and coke]

Not racist. 

Serena Williams is a monumentally, spectacularly bad loser who should be ashamed of herself for ruining that girls achievement. Who the **** does she think she is? Shes an absolute disgrace and deserves a couple of tournaments ban for me. 

 

[maroonexile]

How Serena Williams can play tennis at such a level with monumental chips on both shoulders is admirable. 

 

What a world we live in.

[ri Alban]

13 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Not racist. 

Serena Williams is a monumentally, spectacularly bad loser who should be ashamed of herself for ruining that girls achievement. Who the **** does she think she is? Shes an absolute disgrace and deserves a couple of tournaments ban for me. 

 

She need a good boot in the baws, but that thing above is horrendous. 

[Cade]

This is the one he did the day before

[Cade]

This entire episode should be about the poor behaviour of a spoiled, petulant, entitled celebrity bully.

 

Instead, it's been hijacked to be about race and sexism.

 

Serena is a prick.

[Dawnrazor]

4 minutes ago, Cade said:

This entire episode should be about the poor behaviour of a spoiled, petulant, entitled celebrity bully.

 

Instead, it's been hijacked to be about race and sexism.

 

Serena is a prick.

Completely agree.

 

[Morgan]

Not racist.

 

And, as an aside, everything is all about her in her own mind.  She’s a pain in the neck.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

37 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Not racist. 

Serena Williams is a monumentally, spectacularly bad loser who should be ashamed of herself for ruining that girls achievement. Who the **** does she think she is? Shes an absolute disgrace and deserves a couple of tournaments ban for me. 

 

 

Williams has completely ruined what should have been the best moment of the Japanese lassies sporting career (thus far).

Saw a wee clip of her on (Ellen?) and she said that during the match she thought the crowd was booing her, presumably because she was beating Williams.

 

And the cartoon isn't racist.

[peter_hmfc]

18 minutes ago, Cade said:

This entire episode should be about the poor behaviour of a spoiled, petulant, entitled celebrity bully.

 

Instead, it's been hijacked to be about race and sexism.

 

Serena is a prick.

 

 

She's a prick of (almost) Neil Lennon proportions.

[peter_hmfc]

Hang on, how can this be about anti-female sexism when her opponent was/is a woman?

[Morgan]

4 minutes ago, peter_hmfc said:

 

 

She's a prick of (almost) Neil Lennon proportions.

That’s a big almost!   

[Cade]

Serena was fined $175,000 for making physical threats to a female line at the US open in 2009.

Serena was fined for threatening the umpire at the US open in 2011 after the umpire penalised her for hindering her opponent.

Serena threatened to sue the umpire at Wimbledon in 2016 when the umpire didn't stop play due to humidity.

 

But I'm sure Serena was the real victim in all of those cases too, eh?

 

Edited September 12, 2018 by Cade

[ri Alban]

1 hour ago, Cade said:

This entire episode should be about the poor behaviour of a spoiled, petulant, entitled celebrity bully.

 

Instead, it's been hijacked to be about race and sexism.

 

Serena is a prick.

It's now moved to the sinister side. Now she has what she was looking for. 

[BigCGilmour]

Talk of umpires boycotting serena games

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2018/09/12/tennis-umpires-reportedly-considering-boycott-of-serena-williams-matches/?utm_term=.21bfe9cafd88

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 hour ago, Cade said:

This entire episode should be about the poor behaviour of a spoiled, petulant, entitled celebrity bully.

 

Instead, it's been hijacked to be about race and sexism.

 

Serena is a prick.

 

Before she had a kid I might have agreed with you! 

[John Findlay]

52 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Before she had a kid I might have agreed with you! 

Didn't you know she made herself pregnant..

[Jambo-Jimbo]

53 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Before she had a kid I might have agreed with you! 

 

Unless you were you present at the birth then you can't be 100% sure about that. 

[Shanks]

Just the world we live in these days I'm afraid.  The world is full of people that are desperate to find racism in anything.

 

Trying to make fun of someone that happens to be black = racist.

[John Findlay]

3 minutes ago, Longshanks said:

Just the world we live in these days I'm afraid.  The world is full of people that are desperate to find racism in anything.

 

Trying to make fun of someone that happens to be black = racist.

Mick Jagger probaby wishes at times he was/is Black.

[I P Knightley]

I think the drawing is a decent enough likeness of Serena but it does (unnecessarily) use the stereotype big lips which we'd have seen on jam jars in the less enlightened past. Could have been avoided without lessening the impact of the cartoon. Unfortunately, all that's happening is a massive deflection from Williams's appalling behaviour and sense of entitlement which she has displayed over and over when things aren't going her way.

 

However, there's no way on God's green earth that the drawing is sexist. Those who are claiming that it is are out there looking for something to be offended at.

[IronJambo]

4 minutes ago, I P Knightley said:

I think the drawing is a decent enough likeness of Serena but it does (unnecessarily) use the stereotype big lips which we'd have seen on jam jars in the less enlightened past. Could have been avoided without lessening the impact of the cartoon. Unfortunately, all that's happening is a massive deflection from Williams's appalling behaviour and sense of entitlement which she has displayed over and over when things aren't going her way.

 

However, there's no way on God's green earth that the drawing is sexist. Those who are claiming that it is are out there looking for something to be offended at.

The woman has big lips. 

 

It could be said he's messed up by drawing her opponent as a white blonde, which she obviously wasn't. I guess he would just say that he drew Serena throwing her toys out the pram against A N Other. 

[luckyBatistuta]

3 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Not racist. 

Serena Williams is a monumentally, spectacularly bad loser who should be ashamed of herself for ruining that girls achievement. Who the **** does she think she is? Shes an absolute disgrace and deserves a couple of tournaments ban for me. 

 

 

Spot on, not even remotely racist. The usual sad groups desperately trying to find it in everything.

 

3 hours ago, Cade said:

 

 

Serena is a prick.

 

‘Say it to her face Cade, she’d kick the absolute shit out of you 

 

15 minutes ago, I P Knightley said:

I think the drawing is a decent enough likeness of Serena but it does (unnecessarily) use the stereotype big lips which we'd have seen on jam jars in the less enlightened past. Could have been avoided without lessening the impact of the cartoon. Unfortunately, all that's happening is a massive deflection from Williams's appalling behaviour and sense of entitlement which she has displayed over and over when things aren't going her way.

 

However, there's no way on God's green earth that the drawing is sexist. Those who are claiming that it is are out there looking for something to be offended at.

 

It’s a caricature style drawing, it was bound to focus on her lips. Did you really want them not to, then it would have ended up with a drawing resembling Buster Gonads.

[Jambo, Goodbye]

Serena's opponent also seems to have been white washed and has blonde hair. It gives a more white v black impression. 

 

And the big lips and big momma ass def looks rather stereotypical.

 

I wasn't convinced it's racist but it's really easy to see why it's being seen as such. 

 

Like,  really easy to see. 

[Ulysses]

3 minutes ago, Jambo, Goodbye said:

Serena's opponent also seems to have been white washed and has blonde hair. It gives a more white v black impression. 

 

And the big lips and big momma ass def looks rather stereotypical.

 

I wasn't convinced it's racist but it's really easy to see why it's being seen as such. 

 

Like,  really easy to see. 

 

I started out thinking it wasn't racist.

 

Every single person I've met who has seen it - mostly at work - reckons it is.

Edited September 12, 2018 by Ulysses

[John Findlay]

3 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

I started out thinking it wasn't racist.

 

Every single person I've met who has seen it - mostly at work - reckons it is.

Why doesn't that surprise me.

[Ulysses]

4 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Why doesn't that surprise me.

 

It surprised me.  I'm talking a range of people including some who wouldn't want to be described as "woke".

 

Some picked up on the Serena image, and as many picked up on the way Osaka was presented as a bit more pale than she is.

[John Findlay]

1 minute ago, Ulysses said:

 

It surprised me.  I'm talking a range of people including some who wouldn't want to be described as "woke".

 

Some picked up on the Serena image, and as many picked up on the way Osaka was presented as a bit more pale than she is.

It's a cartoon. People imho read way far to much into these things. 

[Ulysses]

3 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

It's a cartoon. People imho read way far to much into these things. 

 

And there are people who hold the view that in this case the problem wasn't what was read into the cartoon, but what was drawn into it.

[jack D and coke]

Just now, John Findlay said:

It's a cartoon. People imho read way far to much into these things. 

Yeah I’d agree. 

We’re at a stage where literally any single thing levelled at a person if they’re black or muslim is off limits. I think we can all appreciate racism when we see it but this isn’t for me. The fact that Williams has managed to not get a lot more stick over this tbh is mind blowing for me. She’s only getting away with it because she is black imo and as we know if anybody really did attack  her then they’d obviously be a vicious racist nazi white supremacist. 

I wasn’t a fan of hers anyway but this has put the cherry on top. 

A bad loser as well as an utter arsehole. 

[John Findlay]

1 minute ago, Ulysses said:

 

And there are people who hold the view that in this case the problem wasn't what was read into the cartoon, but what was drawn into it.

Funny. I thought all cartoons were drawn.

[Ulysses]

Just now, jack D and coke said:

I wasn’t a fan of hers anyway.....

 

 

I was, and still am, even though that display was as clear an illustration of flawed character as you could get.

 

I never liked McEnroe's tantrums back in the day, but even so I still was a big fan of his tennis.

[John Findlay]

1 minute ago, Ulysses said:

 

 

I was, and still am, even though that display was as clear an illustration of flawed character as you could get.

 

I never liked McEnroe's tantrums back in the day, but even so I still was a big fan of his tennis.

Both terrific tennis players but perharps not nice persons.

[redjambo]

4 hours ago, Cade said:

This entire episode should be about the poor behaviour of a spoiled, petulant, entitled celebrity bully.

 

Instead, it's been hijacked to be about race and sexism.

 

Serena is a prick.

 

I'm usually quite liberal in my views (egalitarian, human rights, anti-discrimination, whatever), but I agree with this.

[redjambo]

3 hours ago, peter_hmfc said:

Hang on, how can this be about anti-female sexism when her opponent was/is a woman?

 

Her opponent wasn't the other player, it was the umpire! The representative of all male umpires!

 

Get with the program, Peter.

[Morgan]

7 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

 

I was, and still am, even though that display was as clear an illustration of flawed character as you could get.

 

I never liked McEnroe's tantrums back in the day, but even so I still was a big fan of his tennis.

Opposite from you on McEnroe Uly, his tantrums were brilliant imo and very, very staged.

[luckyBatistuta]

13 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

And there are people who hold the view that in this case the problem wasn't what was read into the cartoon, but what was drawn into it.

 

And what was drawn into it?

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 hour ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Unless you were you present at the birth then you can't be 100% sure about that. 

 

Good point, well made! 

[Ulysses]

Just now, John Findlay said:

Both terrific tennis players but perharps not nice persons.

 

I suspect both were simply flawed characters, for a variety of reasons, and the flaws were heightened by the pressure of competition (and in Serena Williams' case, losing). 

[Ulysses]

2 minutes ago, luckyBatistuta said:

 

And what was drawn into it?

 

Are you asking me what I think or what others think?

 

I didn't think the cartoon was racist, but in my circle of mates and family I'm in a minority of one.

[Ulysses]

6 minutes ago, Morgan said:

Opposite from you on McEnroe Uly, his tantrums were brilliant imo and very, very staged.

 

You CANNOT be serious. 

[Victorian]

As I posted on the other thread,    doing a caricature of a black person with typical facial features that are commonly associated with black people is sailing close to the wind.     Cartoonists are entitled to freedom of expression and black people should not expect to be exempt from the same ridicule as would be meted out to white people.    But ridicule via a drawing including innately black characteristics is close to the line.      

 

This instance has also served to deflect attention away from her atrocious behaviour,    which helps her cause.     Unfortunately.

Edited September 12, 2018 by Victorian

[Shanks]

22 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Yeah I’d agree. 

We’re at a stage where literally any single thing levelled at a person if they’re black or muslim is off limits. I think we can all appreciate racism when we see it but this isn’t for me. The fact that Williams has managed to not get a lot more stick over this tbh is mind blowing for me. She’s only getting away with it because she is black imo and as we know if anybody really did attack  her then they’d obviously be a vicious racist nazi white supremacist. 

I wasn’t a fan of hers anyway but this has put the cherry on top. 

A bad loser as well as an utter arsehole. 

 

 

Exactly my feelings

[luckyBatistuta]

3 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Are you asking me what I think or what others think?

 

I didn't think the cartoon was racist, but in my circle of mates and family I'm in a minority of one.

 

You seem to know people who have a problem with what was drawn into it, what’s their problem with it?  You said earlier that you started off thinking it wasn’t racist and above you say you didn’t think it was racist. That sounds to me like you aren’t convinced that it’s not and you have changed your mind.

[luckyBatistuta]

31 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Yeah I’d agree. 

We’re at a stage where literally any single thing levelled at a person if they’re black or muslim is off limits. I think we can all appreciate racism when we see it but this isn’t for me. The fact that Williams has managed to not get a lot more stick over this tbh is mind blowing for me. She’s only getting away with it because she is black imo and as we know if anybody really did attack  her then they’d obviously be a vicious racist nazi white supremacist. 

I wasn’t a fan of hers anyway but this has put the cherry on top. 

A bad loser as well as an utter arsehole. 

 

Couldn’t have put it better myself

[Ulysses]

6 minutes ago, luckyBatistuta said:

 

You seem to know people who have a problem with what was drawn into it, what’s their problem with it?  You said earlier that you started off thinking it wasn’t racist and above you say you didn’t think it was racist. That sounds to me like you aren’t convinced that it’s not and you have changed your mind.

 

Some people felt that bias of some description was drawn into the cartoon.  I'm aware of course that people are notoriously bad at noticing what they are reading into a drawing, and therefore assume that what they interpret is caused by the person who does the drawing.  But I'm also conscious of the fact that I encountered a unanimous view of this particular cartoon, when normally I'm used to these people having differing views on subjects.

 

When I saw the drawing first, I didn't really think anything of it.  But......

 

 

8 minutes ago, Victorian said:

As I posted on the other thread,    doing a caricature of a black person with typical facial features that are commonly associated with black people is sailing close to the wind.     Cartoonists are entitled to freedom of expression and black people should not expect to be exempt from the same ridicule as would be meted out to white people.    But ridicule via a drawing including innately black characteristics is close to the line.      

 

This instance has also served to deflect attention away from her atrocious behaviour,    which helps her cause.     Unfortunately.

 

 

If I look at the cartoon again, as dispassionately as I can, the representation of Serena Williams isn't actually a caricature of her.  It simply doesn't look like her, not even in exaggerated form.

[luckyBatistuta]

3 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Some people felt that bias of some description was drawn into the cartoon.  I'm aware of course that people are notoriously bad at noticing what they are reading into a drawing, and therefore assume that what they interpret is caused by the person who does the drawing.  But I'm also conscious of the fact that I encountered a unanimous view of this particular cartoon, when normally I'm used to these people having differing views on subjects.

 

When I saw the drawing first, I didn't really think anything of it.  But......

 

 

 

 

If I look at the cartoon again, as dispassionately as I can, the representation of Serena Williams isn't actually a caricature of her.  It simply doesn't look like her, not even in exaggerated form.

 

As a cartoon of her, I don’t think it’s far off. How anyone can see that as racist is beyond me. Usual folk trying to be offended as per

 

 

 

[Victorian]

4 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Some people felt that bias of some description was drawn into the cartoon.  I'm aware of course that people are notoriously bad at noticing what they are reading into a drawing, and therefore assume that what they interpret is caused by the person who does the drawing.  But I'm also conscious of the fact that I encountered a unanimous view of this particular cartoon, when normally I'm used to these people having differing views on subjects.

 

When I saw the drawing first, I didn't really think anything of it.  But......

 

 

 

 

If I look at the cartoon again, as dispassionately as I can, the representation of Serena Williams isn't actually a caricature of her.  It simply doesn't look like her, not even in exaggerated form.

Perhaps or perhaps not.    Maybe it can be described as a poor caricature.     Maybe it was quite cleverly drawn to deliberately avoid being an obvious caricature.      

[luckyBatistuta]

I reckon if the same cartoonist had put this up instead, they’d still be focusing on her facial features and claiming it’s racist.

 

 

[Ulysses]

7 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Perhaps or perhaps not.    Maybe it can be described as a poor caricature.     Maybe it was quite cleverly drawn to deliberately avoid being an obvious caricature.      

 

It could be described as a poor caricature.

 

I'm not an artist, but I'd have conceptualised the shot better. 

 

All the cartoonist actually needed on the left hand side of the picture to hammer home the point was the smashed racquet and the soother - or maybe a rattle.