...and yes

[Ulysses]

...and yes I said

yes I will Yes.

 

 

Ulysses

James Joyce

[The White Cockade]

[milky_26]

i assume this is to do with the abortion vote in ireland which looks like it is going to become legal (if i read the story corretcly)

[shaun.lawson]

Yes Ireland! Yes yes yes! 

 

 

[hughesie27]

Hamilton 1 - 2 Dundee

Hearts 3 - 1 St Johnstone

Celtic 3 - 0 Motherwell

Partick 1 - 1 Kilmarnock

Aberdeen 1 - 1 Rangers

Ross County 5 - 1 Hibs

[Ulysses]

Just now, hughesie27 said:

Hamilton 1 - 2 Dundee

Hearts 3 - 1 St Johnstone

Celtic 3 - 0 Motherwell

Partick 1 - 1 Kilmarnock

Aberdeen 1 - 1 Rangers

Ross County 5 - 1 Hibs

 

[Ulysses]

And Mr. Lawson......

 

 

 

[i8hibsh]

Welcome to 2018 Ireland. Run now woman, run free, your womb now belongs to you.

 

 

 

[Norm]

Letting the mentally handicapped get their hole and now this. Ireland is moving forward. Well done. 

[redm]

Feeling pretty emotional today for all the women who suffered or died in the past, and now all the women who (fingers crossed) will have access to proper healthcare in their own home country and can make informed choices about their own bodies in the future. 

 

Some of the things I’ve been reading in recent weeks are just so sad, and many stories just utterly barbaric. More than one woman on Twitter mentioned being alone, in agony, crying, shaking, vomiting and bleeding heavily in toilet stalls just at Edinburgh airport, for example. They didn’t die though, or end up in ICU, so their stories aren’t even at the worst end of the scale. Here’s one that stuck in my mind: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/998280875564466177.html

 

Men and women who never met their grandmothers because they died trying to abort pregnancies themselves or visited back street abortionists, teenagers taking pills they obtained from dodgy sources and going through it alone hiding in school toilets, aunties who scorched themselves in boiling hot water, the stories are endless. Women who travelled to U.K. on almost zero cash and suffered badly en route, only returning home to post-procedure complications but no after care at all.  ?

 

And, of course, the senseless, needless and unforgivable death of Savita Halappanavar and all of the other women who died because they were considered to be of less importance than the foetuses they were carrying in their wombs. 

 

 

 

 

[John Gentleman]

This vote will leave Northern Ireland looking as though it's stuck in a time warp. An 18th century time warp. They've really got to screw the nut there.

[maroonlegions]

But, but ,but think of the children.

[Ulysses]

6 hours ago, redm said:

Feeling pretty emotional today for all the women who suffered or died in the past, and now all the women who (fingers crossed) will have access to proper healthcare in their own home country and can make informed choices about their own bodies in the future. 

 

Some of the things I’ve been reading in recent weeks are just so sad, and many stories just utterly barbaric. More than one woman on Twitter mentioned being alone, in agony, crying, shaking, vomiting and bleeding heavily in toilet stalls just at Edinburgh airport, for example. They didn’t die though, or end up in ICU, so their stories aren’t even at the worst end of the scale. Here’s one that stuck in my mind: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/998280875564466177.html

 

Men and women who never met their grandmothers because they died trying to abort pregnancies themselves or visited back street abortionists, teenagers taking pills they obtained from dodgy sources and going through it alone hiding in school toilets, aunties who scorched themselves in boiling hot water, the stories are endless. Women who travelled to U.K. on almost zero cash and suffered badly en route, only returning home to post-procedure complications but no after care at all.  ?

 

And, of course, the senseless, needless and unforgivable death of Savita Halappanavar and all of the other women who died because they were considered to be of less importance than the foetuses they were carrying in their wombs. 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks.  I'm a bit emotional today, I have to admit.  Our Health minister captured it with three words.

 

"Take our hand". 

 

 

[Ulysses]

10 minutes ago, maroonlegions said:

But, but ,but think of the children.

 

 

We did our best to have a civilised and respectful debate here, and by and large we succeeded.   So go on, play nice.

 

 

[Maple Leaf]

Well done the Irish!! 

 

 

[SwindonJambo]

6 hours ago, John Gentleman said:

This vote will leave Northern Ireland looking as though it's stuck in a time warp. An 18th century time warp. They've really got to screw the nut there.

 

Excellent point. I was in Dublin last week for the Rolling Stones Concert, I spent a few days there. Ireland has come on in leaps and bounds in the last 25 years and  is now a modern secular country bar the odd dinosaur. It has firmly freed itself from the shackles of its theocratic past. The republican part of the North seems to cling to what Ireland was before its modernisation and fall truth be told, in many ways the loyalist side are little better.

[Cade]

Ireland is changing fast.

Divorce was only legalised in 1995!

[Sir Vladimir of Romanov]

8 hours ago, redm said:

Feeling pretty emotional today for all the women who suffered or died in the past, and now all the women who (fingers crossed) will have access to proper healthcare in their own home country and can make informed choices about their own bodies in the future. 

 

Some of the things I’ve been reading in recent weeks are just so sad, and many stories just utterly barbaric. More than one woman on Twitter mentioned being alone, in agony, crying, shaking, vomiting and bleeding heavily in toilet stalls just at Edinburgh airport, for example. They didn’t die though, or end up in ICU, so their stories aren’t even at the worst end of the scale. Here’s one that stuck in my mind: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/998280875564466177.html

 

Men and women who never met their grandmothers because they died trying to abort pregnancies themselves or visited back street abortionists, teenagers taking pills they obtained from dodgy sources and going through it alone hiding in school toilets, aunties who scorched themselves in boiling hot water, the stories are endless. Women who travelled to U.K. on almost zero cash and suffered badly en route, only returning home to post-procedure complications but no after care at all.  ?

 

And, of course, the senseless, needless and unforgivable death of Savita Halappanavar and all of the other women who died because they were considered to be of less importance than the foetuses they were carrying in their wombs. 

 

 

 

 

 

Early front runner for humanitarian post of the year. 

 

 

[Francis Albert]

Good news. But I understand that the likely cut off for termination will be twelve weeks so Irish women who find out too late that they are pregnant or that they are carrying a severely handicapped child will still be catching the ferry to Liverpool. But progress nevertheless.

And I have some slight sneaking regard for the no voters who actually believe in the faith they adhere to and the teachings of their church. As an atheist I think they are totally  wrong but they have the merit at least of consistency.

[Maple Leaf]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

Good news. But I understand that the likely cut off for termination will be twelve weeks so Irish women who find out too late that they are pregnant or that they are carrying a severely handicapped child will still be catching the ferry to Liverpool. But progress nevertheless.

And I have some slight sneaking regard for the no voters who actually believe in the faith they adhere to and the teachings of their church. As an atheist I think they are totally  wrong but they have the merit at least of consistency.

 

Consistent, or blindly dogmatic in the face of changing times.

[Ulysses]

3 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

Consistent, or blindly dogmatic in the face of changing times.

 

Several of my friends and relatives who are committed to their Christian faith voted Yes, and saw no inconsistency between their vote and their faith.  A small number of atheists of my acquaintance voted No, and believe that they were bound by their life philosophy to do so.  Issues like this are not as straightforward as some people make out.

[redm]

2 hours ago, Sir Vladimir of Romanov said:

 

Early front runner for humanitarian post of the year. 

 

 

 

Snide AF, and totally uncalled for. 

 

[Sharpie]

Unfortunately to the chagrin of some I have to return to my past and say that having witnessed the aftermath of illegal abortions done on occasion by some unskilled ignorant practitioner of the process, with normal found in any household tools the aftermath is ugly. If it has to be done at least have it done in clean clinical circumstances by persons who know what they are doing,  I can understand the need for abortion and have no problem with it, but you sometimes wonder what the fetus might have become.

[Sir Vladimir of Romanov]

34 minutes ago, redm said:

 

Snide AF, and totally uncalled for. 

 

 

If that's your opinion that's fine, you're entitled to it. As am I. 

[redm]

1 minute ago, Sir Vladimir of Romanov said:

 

If that's your opinion that's fine, you're entitled to it. As am I. 

 

That wasn’t about my opinion or yours, it was just a snide attempt at a put down. You made it personal. If you want to criticise my opinions, go for it, but that isn’t what you did. 

 

 

[shaun.lawson]

1 hour ago, redm said:

 

Snide AF, and totally uncalled for. 

 

 

 

Utterly cretinous post, I thought. 

[Ulysses]

^^^^

Shaun, on an off topic point, I can't see your signature, only a link.  And when you put jpegs in your posts I can't see them either - just a file name.  This doesn't happen with anyone else.  

[i8hibsh]

What a great day for the Western world. I say the 'Western world' as many women outside this area are still struggling to have any control of their lives and body, let alone vagina or womb.

 

I do however find it utterly pathetic that we are celebrating this. To celebrate a woman controlling her own womb in 2018 is as sad as two consenting men in the UK having to wait till 1967 to do what the **** they wanted with their own penis.

 

With any luck the 'god fearing' Americans may one day see it as none of their ****ing business if two consenting men wish to have sex with each other in 2018.

Edited May 26, 2018 by i8hibsh

[Francis Albert]

2 hours ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

Consistent, or blindly dogmatic in the face of changing times.

But those of faith don't recognise changing times. Which I guess is what true faith requires.

[shaun.lawson]

1 minute ago, i8hibsh said:

What a great day for the Western world. I say the 'Western world' as many women outside this area are still struggling to have any control of their lives and body, let alone vagina or womb.

 

I do however find it utterly pathetic that we are celebrating this. To celebrate a woman controlling her own womb in 2018 is as sad as two consenting men in the UK having to wait till 1967 to do what the **** they wanted with their own penis.

 

With any luck the 'god fearing' Americans may one day see it as none of their ****ing business if two consenting men wish to have sex with each other in 2018.

 

Great post, i8hibsh.

 

Cheers Uly for his post above too. The matter is now with the admins. 

 

 

[Ulysses]

55 minutes ago, redm said:

 

That wasn’t about my opinion or yours, it was just a snide attempt at a put down. You made it personal. If you want to criticise my opinions, go for it, but that isn’t what you did. 

 

 

 

 

I've no idea what he's on about, but I'm on about the death of a pregnant woman from sepsis because she was denied medical treatment by law.  I'm also on about the sadness and the loneliness of women who literally couldn't bear to have their doomed children, but who were given no choice but to go to term or else go to the United Kingdom.  And to be honest, that's only the stuff I can post here without breaking confidences.

 

We were the kind of place where awful things like that could happen.  We were also the kind of place where every time people tried to change that we were thwarted by the pernicious influence of the Church of Rome. 

 

We won't be that kind of place any more, and that means a lot to me.  I only posted the thread as a way of giving expression to the combination of happiness, relief and regret that I'm feeling, and that many of my friends and relations are feeling too. 

 

It's not been your (Scotland's) problem, so I don't expect it to be a big deal for you.  It's a thread like any other in the Shed, so if y'all want to comment then carry on. 

 

If someone has something supportive or positive to say, that's really welcome.

 

If someone has something snide or negative to say, then frankly I'd be just as happy for them to **** off - and specifically, the place to which I'd like them to **** off is Torremolinos. 

Edited May 26, 2018 by Ulysses

[Ulysses]

8 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

I do however find it utterly pathetic that we are celebrating this.

 

I have my own reasons, which I don't expect others to share.  It's been a long road, and a difficult one.

[i8hibsh]

3 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

I have my own reasons, which I don't expect others to share.  It's been a long road, and a difficult one.

 

I respect that Uly. My post was no personal dig. I am however looking on from the outside and obviously hold my own opinions. peace.

[Ulysses]

1 hour ago, i8hibsh said:

 

I respect that Uly. My post was no personal dig. I am however looking on from the outside and obviously hold my own opinions. peace.

 

I know you weren't having a go, I8.  Cheers. 

[Sraman]

8 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

 

We did our best to have a civilised and respectful debate here, and by and large we succeeded.   So go on, play nice.

 

 

 

 

Small countries Leading the way. 

 

Congratulations. It's been a long hard fight.

[jake]

I'm torn on this subject.

 

On a lot of fronts.

What constitutes grounds for abortion.

Whose rights over ride whose.

 

Is it morally right for someone to end the life of another because they carry them?

 

I know that illegal abortion is a bad option but does that mean we should allow it ?

 

And does this really make Ireland progressive or regressive.

When is a human life an actuality.

 

I do not want to be confrontational .

But the more you find out about a growing child which is a relatively new discovery.

The more you realise the fundamentals of the wonder of it all.

 

Like I said I'm torn about this.

 

[Sraman]

1 minute ago, jake said:

I'm torn on this subject.

 

On a lot of fronts.

What constitutes grounds for abortion.

Whose rights over ride whose.

 

Is it morally right for someone to end the life of another because they carry them?

 

I know that illegal abortion is a bad option but does that mean we should allow it ?

 

And does this really make Ireland progressive or regressive.

When is a human life an actuality.

 

I do not want to be confrontational .

But the more you find out about a growing child which is a relatively new discovery.

The more you realise the fundamentals of the wonder of it all.

 

Like I said I'm torn about this.

 

 

 

It is a wonderful thing Jake and it is a very emotive subject. In my view there are too many different sets of circumstances in every single creation of each and every wonderful thing, that we couldn't possibly put a blanket ban on having the option to have the operation carried out safely in a secure, respectful environment.

 

Ultimately the parents should decide between them, if this is even possible depending on the circumstances, with the mother having the final, extremely difficult, say. 

 

 

 

 

[Cade]

[shaun.lawson]

2 hours ago, jake said:

I'm torn on this subject.

 

On a lot of fronts.

What constitutes grounds for abortion.

Whose rights over ride whose.

 

Is it morally right for someone to end the life of another because they carry them?

 

I know that illegal abortion is a bad option but does that mean we should allow it ?

 

And does this really make Ireland progressive or regressive.

When is a human life an actuality.

 

I do not want to be confrontational .

But the more you find out about a growing child which is a relatively new discovery.

The more you realise the fundamentals of the wonder of it all.

 

Like I said I'm torn about this.

 

 

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/comment/ive-two-abortions-i-want-know-shame/

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

19 hours ago, John Gentleman said:

This vote will leave Northern Ireland looking as though it's stuck in a time warp. An 18th century time warp. They've really got to screw the nut there.

The last time Stormont had a vote there was a majority maintaining the existing law. You'd be surprised at how much being "pro-life" cuts across the divide.

[i8hibsh]

5 hours ago, jake said:

I'm torn on this subject.

 

On a lot of fronts.

What constitutes grounds for abortion.

Whose rights over ride whose.

 

Is it morally right for someone to end the life of another because they carry them?

 

I know that illegal abortion is a bad option but does that mean we should allow it ?

 

And does this really make Ireland progressive or regressive.

When is a human life an actuality.

 

I do not want to be confrontational .

But the more you find out about a growing child which is a relatively new discovery.

The more you realise the fundamentals of the wonder of it all.

 

Like I said I'm torn about this.

 

 

Even the thought of governments controlling a female's reproductuve system curdles my blood. And why? Because of the 'God delusion'. Utter madness on every level. Sky fairies controlling our reproduction, genitals and sex life. I honestly want to grab the world and give it an almighty shake.

 

While I am at it, perhaps the wee man with the pointy hat, sitting in his wee little lego house and claiming it's his own wee country over in Italy could mind his own business and do a good act for the first time in their vile existence. Tell the billion poor and desperate people who cling to his every world that sex is great and you can do it with protection and YOU WILL NOT BE PUNISHED. It is not as if these kids can be afforded or will have any sort of life. Perhaps we may live in a better world.

 

 

 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

2 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

Even the thought of governments controlling a female's reproductuve system curdles my blood. And why? Because of the 'God delusion'. Utter madness on every level. Sky fairies controlling our reproduction, genitals and sex life. I honestly want to grab the world and give it an almighty shake.

 

While I am at it, perhaps the wee man with the pointy hat, sitting in his wee little lego house and claiming it's his own wee country over in Italy could mind his own business and do a good act for the first time in their vile existence. Tell the billion poor and desperate people who cling to his every world that sex is great and you can do it with protection and YOU WILL NOT BE PUNISHED. It is not as if these kids can be afforded or will have any sort of life. Perhaps we may live in a better world.

 

 

 

There are plenty of people who do not believe in "sky fairies" who find the concept of abortion pretty repugnant.

 

Hope this clarifies.

[i8hibsh]

10 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

There are plenty of people who do not believe in "sky fairies" who find the concept of abortion pretty repugnant.

 

Hope this clarifies.

 

Do they make the laws? Any non religious countries with this law? 

 

There may well be, I shall leave you to Google.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

4 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

Do they make the laws? Any non religious countries with this law? 

 

There may well be, I shall leave you to Google.

How do you mean "make the laws"? I'm not going to Google as your question is bizarre.

 

The point I was making is that views on abortion are not wholly framed by religious beliefs. Rather it is a moral question, like euthanasia. To label one side as being of that view because of a belief in "sky fairies" is ridiculously facile.

[ri Alban]

14 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

How do you mean "make the laws"? I'm not going to Google as your question is bizarre.

 

The point I was making is that views on abortion are not wholly framed by religious beliefs. Rather it is a moral question, like euthanasia. To label one side as being of that view because of a belief in "sky fairies" is ridiculously facile.

Seems to be the young driving Ireland these days. Good or bad I have no idea cause I (in the words of a famous Irishman) don't give a £%£&.

Edited May 27, 2018 by ri Alban

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Just now, ri Alban said:

Seems to be the young driving Ireland these days. Good or bad I have no idea cause I (in the words of a famous Irishman) don't give a ****.

Translation: I can't find an angle to IN-DAY-PEN-DANCE so I don't care.

[ri Alban]

26 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Translation: I can't find an angle to IN-DAY-PEN-DANCE so I don't care.

No, I don't give a shining brighter about Ireland. But do like the word Yes!.

Fwiw, partying because you can know abort is a bit off. Unless rape, incest, seriously Ill or the mother is in danger why would you do this. Now like brexit it's in the hands of selfish agenda driven politicians. 

I don't get the celebration  voting for/against state murder.

Edited May 27, 2018 by ri Alban

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

5 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

No, I don't give a shining brighter about Ireland. But do like the word Yes!.

Fwiw, partying because you can know abort is a bit off. Unless rape, incest, seriously Ill or the mother is in danger why would you do this. Now like brexit it's in the hands of selfish agenda driven politicians. 

I don't get the celebration  voting for/against state murder.

PS You do know Northern Ireland is the only part of the UK where abortion is a devolved matter? There's your angle.

[ri Alban]

1 minute ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

PS You do know Northern Ireland is the only part of the UK where abortion is a devolved matter? There's your angle.

There's immense pressure on the SNP to reverse that. Thankfully they've told the pro life mob to bolt.

[i8hibsh]

50 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

How do you mean "make the laws"? I'm not going to Google as your question is bizarre.

 

The point I was making is that views on abortion are not wholly framed by religious beliefs. Rather it is a moral question, like euthanasia. To label one side as being of that view because of a belief in "sky fairies" is ridiculously facile.

 

Abortion is illegal in countries due to Sky fairies. The fact that it's citizens may not all believe in them matters not.