Poisoned Russian spy.

[Debut 4]

2 hours ago, John Findlay said:

Double agent. The USA not happy in that he gave their information to Motherwell Russia. All smoke and mirrors.

Now I see why we let them win the cup match   

 

Didn't want to provoke an attack up at Heriot Watt this week to ruin derby preparations .

 

 

Edited March 8, 2018 by Debut 4

[southcap]

12 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

In the murky world of international espionage are there any rules, let alone anybody heeding them if there were any, no we are talking about a code here which is completely different to rules.

 

A code is a set of rules. Jeezo.

 

But aye, Putin really cares about international rules of honour right enough.

 

Especially ones about murdering political opponents and journalists, he follows them to a T.

[Zico]

Looks like a pretty straightforward Putin authorised hit - see other spies, dissidents, journalists, former business partners, Ukrainians, Chechens etc. Done in a style so that everyone knows who did it and nobody does anything about it while Putin sits back cackling, Hank Scorpio style. 

 

Although who’d have thought that the Russian IRA kremlebots would’ve infiltrated JKB! Or maybe they’ve just seen too many spy films. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

5 minutes ago, southcap said:

A code is a set of rules. Jeezo.

 

But aye, Putin really cares about international rules of honour right enough.

 

Especially ones about murdering political opponents and journalists, he follows them to a T.

 

Yeh, fair enough.

 

Can I just point something out, as I'm getting the impression here that your adding 2+2 together and getting about 19.

 

I am no lover or supporter of the Russians, nor Putin for that matter, never have and I highly doubt I ever will be.

But I'm not prepared to jump on the bandwagon and instantly blame the Russians for this, even though it does look likely it were them, no I'll wait until there is some evidence of their involvement, first.

 

[southcap]

20 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Yeh, fair enough.

 

Can I just point something out, as I'm getting the impression here that your adding 2+2 together and getting about 19.

 

I am no lover or supporter of the Russians, nor Putin for that matter, never have and I highly doubt I ever will be.

But I'm not prepared to jump on the bandwagon and instantly blame the Russians for this, even though it does look likely it were them, no I'll wait until there is some evidence of their involvement, first.

 

I never claimed you did.

There is a huge mound building of circumstantial evidence pointing to Russia. You can ignore that if you like, fine, a court wouldn't.
 

I'm open minded to all evidence, just happens to be all the evidence so far points to one direction.

[Victorian]

Report today says he was agitated and angry whilst still in the restaurant.   Asked for the bill and left hurriedly.    Yet found on the bench outside.     

[Rab87]

46 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Report today says he was agitated and angry whilst still in the restaurant.   Asked for the bill and left hurriedly.    Yet found on the bench outside.     

It sounds like you find this suspicious.... Very plausible that the effects began to take hold in the restaurant. Victim then leaves, and takes a seat on a bench outside as his conditions worsen.

 

What else do you think this could point to?

[Victorian]

2 minutes ago, Rab87 said:

It sounds like you find this suspicious.... Very plausible that the effects began to take hold in the restaurant. Victim then leaves, and takes a seat on a bench outside as his conditions worsen.

 

What else do you think this could point to?

That's fairly obvious.

 

What I'm curious about is if and when the victims became aware of being attacked.    If he was agitated in the restaurant, that suggests he was aware of something.    Yet no suggestion they sought any help or made anyone aware of having been attacked.    It's all a bit intriguing.

[southcap]

3 minutes ago, Victorian said:

That's fairly obvious.

 

What I'm curious about is if and when the victims became aware of being attacked.    If he was agitated in the restaurant, that suggests he was aware of something.    Yet no suggestion they sought any help or made anyone aware of having been attacked.    It's all a bit intriguing.

 

Beginning to feel ill and badly wanted fresh air?

[Victorian]

Just now, southcap said:

 

Beginning to feel ill and badly wanted fresh air?

Kinda suggests he had no specific idea of what had happened to him.     I'm just curious about the mode of attack.     

[Jambo-Jimbo]

14 minutes ago, southcap said:

I never claimed you did.

There is a huge mound building of circumstantial evidence pointing to Russia. You can ignore that if you like, fine, a court wouldn't.
 

I'm open minded to all evidence, just happens to be all the evidence so far points to one direction.

 

Just what have I ignored? nothing as far as I'm aware, I've ignored nothing and equally I have not implied that Russia isn't involved.

 

I'm not going to argue with you or fall out over this, so let's just move on shall we.

 

I believe that there is something which the media is deliberately avoiding discussing and reporting about this case, and that's the location of this attack.

Salisbury is a mere 5 miles from Winterbourne Gunner the UK's Defence Chemical Biological Radiological and Nuclear Centre & Porton Down which is a further 2 miles up the road, coincidence?

 

Now let's just assume that it was the Russian State who carried out this attack, well they would be well aware about the facilities just a few miles away, so is this just pure coincidence that a nerve agent attack is carried out just a few miles from the heart of the UK's facilities which deal with this stuff or is there another message being sent out here, not just to ex-spies but to the UK Government.

 

 

[Rab87]

24 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Just what have I ignored? nothing as far as I'm aware, I've ignored nothing and equally I have not implied that Russia isn't involved.

 

I'm not going to argue with you or fall out over this, so let's just move on shall we.

 

I believe that there is something which the media is deliberately avoiding discussing and reporting about this case, and that's the location of this attack.

Salisbury is a mere 5 miles from Winterbourne Gunner the UK's Defence Chemical Biological Radiological and Nuclear Centre & Porton Down which is a further 2 miles up the road, coincidence?

 

Now let's just assume that it was the Russian State who carried out this attack, well they would be well aware about the facilities just a few miles away, so is this just pure coincidence that a nerve agent attack is carried out just a few miles from the heart of the UK's facilities which deal with this stuff or is there another message being sent out here, not just to ex-spies but to the UK Government.

 

 

I am not sure the close proximity to the UK's chem facility bears any significance here. If you think it does, can you explain why?

 

If anything, the victim may have an increased chance of survival, as the antidotes or cures, whatever you want to call them, are likely held at the facility you speak of.

 

 

[southcap]

1 hour ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Just what have I ignored? nothing as far as I'm aware, I've ignored nothing and equally I have not implied that Russia isn't involved.

 

I'm not going to argue with you or fall out over this, so let's just move on shall we.

 

I believe that there is something which the media is deliberately avoiding discussing and reporting about this case, and that's the location of this attack.

Salisbury is a mere 5 miles from Winterbourne Gunner the UK's Defence Chemical Biological Radiological and Nuclear Centre & Porton Down which is a further 2 miles up the road, coincidence?

 

Now let's just assume that it was the Russian State who carried out this attack, well they would be well aware about the facilities just a few miles away, so is this just pure coincidence that a nerve agent attack is carried out just a few miles from the heart of the UK's facilities which deal with this stuff or is there another message being sent out here, not just to ex-spies but to the UK Government.

 

 

There could be a link, true, but my assumption would be that it's a coincidence. Unless you can provide reasons to the contrary.
 

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 hour ago, Rab87 said:

I am not sure the close proximity to the UK's chem facility bears any significance here. If you think it does, can you explain why?

 

If anything, the victim may have an increased chance of survival, as the antidotes or cures, whatever you want to call them, are likely held at the facility you speak of.

 

 

 

9 minutes ago, southcap said:

There could be a link, true, but my assumption would be that it's a coincidence. Unless you can provide reasons to the contrary.
 

 

 

No particular reason, except that of all the places that a nerve agent attack is carried out on mainland Britain, it just happens to be practically next door to the UK's chemical and biological centre.

 

Coincidence it may well be, and we'd probably never find out if it wasn't a coincidence as that information would unlikely ever to be made public. 

[FORTHCLYDE]

The police officer involved has been named as Detective Sergeant Nick Bailey. 

But why was a detective first on the scene surely a beat officer would be first there.

Or was the detective his minder? 

[milky_26]

11 minutes ago, FORTHCLYDE said:

The police officer involved has been named as Detective Sergeant Nick Bailey. 

But why was a detective first on the scene surely a beat officer would be first there.

Or was the detective his minder? 

maybe he was out for his lunch and happened to be in the area

[John Findlay]

29 minutes ago, FORTHCLYDE said:

The police officer involved has been named as Detective Sergeant Nick Bailey. 

But why was a detective first on the scene surely a beat officer would be first there.

Or was the detective his minder? 

Special Branch?

[Jambo-Jimbo]

15 hours ago, FORTHCLYDE said:

The police officer involved has been named as Detective Sergeant Nick Bailey. 

But why was a detective first on the scene surely a beat officer would be first there.

Or was the detective his minder? 

 

The theory the Police are now working on according to Sky News is that the poisoning took place at the family home.

Sky also said that their sources have said that DS Bailey was sent to the house and was one of the first officers on the scene and was nowhere near the park bench where the couple were found, according to Sky News sources.

https://news.sky.com/story/live-home-secretary-at-spy-poisoning-scene-11281991

 

[Victorian]

Even more confusing then.     Normally nerve agent would act very quickly.     It doesn't square with them going off to a pub and restaurant and falling ill later.     Maybe this particular agent is slower acting unlike sarin or VX.      

 

100 military now deployed to deal with contamination risks.       

[Rab87]

5 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Even more confusing then.     Normally nerve agent would act very quickly.     It doesn't square with them going off to a pub and restaurant and falling ill later.     Maybe this particular agent is slower acting unlike sarin or VX.      

 

100 military now deployed to deal with contamination risks.       

And if it was at home, it would either have to be someone he knows, or someone broke in earlier. 

 

Strange indeed.

[Victorian]

1 minute ago, Rab87 said:

And if it was at home, it would either have to be someone he knows, or someone broke in earlier. 

 

Strange indeed.

Very.    I think it's credible he was poisoned at home without being aware but the relatively long time that elapsed thereafter seems to point towards sn even rarer agent.    Perhaps why the details have been withheld.

[Ron Burgundy]

Can't wait for the film.

[Rab87]

Quote

A former Russian spy and his daughter were poisoned by a military-grade nerve agent of a type developed by Russia, Theresa May has told MPs.

The PM said the government concluded it was "highly likely" Russia was responsible for the Salisbury attack.

Russia's ambassador had been asked to explain whether it was "direct action" by the state or due to it "losing control" of its nerve agent stock.

She said the UK must "stand ready to take much more extensive measures".

The chemical used in the attack, the PM said, has been identified as being part of a group of nerve agents known as "Novichok".

Mrs May said Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson had told the ambassador Moscow must provide "full and complete disclosure" of the Novichok programme to the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons by the end of Tuesday.

She said the UK would then consider their response before deciding what action to take, but added: "Should there be no credible response, we will conclude that this action amounts to an unlawful use of force by the Russian state against the United Kingdom."

 

Mrs May not mincing her words here.

 

[ToadKiller Dog]

Putin knows we can do little but wag our finger at him. 

The dispute will play well for Putin in Russia with his coronation sorry election coming up. 

[Victorian]

The west's knowledge of the existence of this type of nerve agent is due to intel provided by Russian defectors.     Perhaps the reason for it's use in this instance.     

 

It's state sponsored use or rogue element action with toxins they shouldn't have use of.      Either way,   the Russians are bang to rights.     It doesn't get any more serious than allowing materials of this nature to fall under the control of non-state controlled actors.     Or state ordered use itself.     The nature of this particular agent is much more dangerous than sarin or VX.

 

The UK will have to come up with something other than bluster.     

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Of all the scum countries in the world, Russia is the worst. An absolute hole.

 

see Corbyn is trying hard not to upset his Russian friends too much, the commie twat

[Victorian]

Indeed.     They're already in a faux-outrage at the injustice of being accused.    Anti-Russia.. blah blah blahski.        In full pelt denial mode.

 

The Russians are particularly good at denying the undeniable and appearing credible to the Russian public.    That's the only consideration.

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

I can see the England fans getting a hard time from the Russian police during the upcoming world cup! 

 

Don't go I would say and don't give Putin's mob the money that the tournament will generate!

[Captain Sausage]

We travelled for a while through Russia and the utter fascination so many Joe Bloggs have for Putin is quite scary. 

 

The way way they just took over Crimea flouting international law, all the while hampering any effort to sanction Syria is scandalous. 

 

A coordinated round of sanctions is the only way to get to them, but it would need coordination with the EU and US. Not gonna happen. 

[Boris]

54 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Of all the scum countries in the world, Russia is the worst. An absolute hole.

 

see Corbyn is trying hard not to upset his Russian friends too much, the commie twat

You'll find it is the Tory party that is friends with the Russians these days.

 

Litvinenko's widow suggesting the Tories give back the £800,000 donations from Russians. The purchase of property in London by these oligarchs, sending their kids to private schools. Hit them economically and they may turn on Putin.

 

should have happened after the Litvenenko murder, but the Home Secretary did nothing. Now the Home Secretary is prime minister. Great.

[Victorian]

3 minutes ago, Boris said:

You'll find it is the Tory party that is friends with the Russians these days.

 

Litvinenko's widow suggesting the Tories give back the £800,000 donations from Russians. The purchase of property in London by these oligarchs, sending their kids to private schools. Hit them economically and they may turn on Putin.

 

should have happened after the Litvenenko murder, but the Home Secretary did nothing. Now the Home Secretary is prime minister. Great.

 

Indeedy.

 

This must also be quite the drain on police resources.    The police being another particular favourite historical triumph of the current PM.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

As there now appears to be enough evidence to officially lay the blame of this terrorist attack at the door of the Russians, and lets not make any mistake about this, this is a terrorist attack, whether that be sanctioned by the Russian state or by some rouge element thereof.

 

The UK needs to send out a clear and strong message to the Russians over this, a start would be to fully implement the Magnitsky act and then follow that up with the toughest sanctions possible, and I'd hope that the EU backed the UK up as well and make it loud and clear to Putin that he can not get away with releasing any kind of chemical or biological attacks on another countries soil.

 

I would also go as far as saying that all EU countries should seriously consider or threaten pulling their teams out of the World Cup, thus effectively rendering it totally meaningless, this would be a huge massive embarrassment to the Russians on the World stage, I know it won't happen but that would sent a clear message to Russia by near enough the rest of Europe.    

[Jambo-Jimbo]

6 minutes ago, Boris said:

You'll find it is the Tory party that is friends with the Russians these days.

 

Litvinenko's widow suggesting the Tories give back the £800,000 donations from Russians. The purchase of property in London by these oligarchs, sending their kids to private schools. Hit them economically and they may turn on Putin.

 

should have happened after the Litvenenko murder, but the Home Secretary did nothing. Now the Home Secretary is prime minister. Great.

 

Wasn't Charles Clarke the home secretary in 2006, or am I missing something?

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

3 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

As there now appears to be enough evidence to officially lay the blame of this terrorist attack at the door of the Russians, and lets not make any mistake about this, this is a terrorist attack, whether that be sanctioned by the Russian state or by some rouge element thereof.

 

The UK needs to send out a clear and strong message to the Russians over this, a start would be to fully implement the Magnitsky act and then follow that up with the toughest sanctions possible, and I'd hope that the EU backed the UK up as well and make it loud and clear to Putin that he can not get away with releasing any kind of chemical or biological attacks on another countries soil.

 

I would also go as far as saying that all EU countries should seriously consider or threaten pulling their teams out of the World Cup, thus effectively rendering it totally meaningless, this would be a huge massive embarrassment to the Russians on the World stage, I know it won't happen but that would sent a clear message to Russia by near enough the rest of Europe.    

Many countries including Germany have seen cyber attacks take place which strongly point back to Russia, so is it not time that a concerted European action involving sanctions aimed at Putin's business associates being considered!

[Boris]

6 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Wasn't Charles Clarke the home secretary in 2006, or am I missing something?

He was, but May was integral in trying to stymie the public enquiry once in office.

 

Agree, nothing was done initially though.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

14 minutes ago, Boris said:

He was, but May was integral in trying to stymie the public enquiry once in office.

 

Agree, nothing was done initially though.

 

With you now.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

18 minutes ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

Many countries including Germany have seen cyber attacks take place which strongly point back to Russia, so is it not time that a concerted European action involving sanctions aimed at Putin's business associates being considered!

 

There has just been a guy from Germany (may have been from the Bild newspaper) on Sky News and he was saying that Bundesliga teams are growing increasingly uneasy with going to Russia to celebrate a festival of football whilst the Russians are carrying out atrocities in Syria, and if the Russians have indeed carried out a terrorist attack on a fellow EU country then the German Football Federation and the EU would need to look very carefully at this.    

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 hour ago, Boris said:

You'll find it is the Tory party that is friends with the Russians these days.

 

Litvinenko's widow suggesting the Tories give back the £800,000 donations from Russians. The purchase of property in London by these oligarchs, sending their kids to private schools. Hit them economically and they may turn on Putin.

 

should have happened after the Litvenenko murder, but the Home Secretary did nothing. Now the Home Secretary is prime minister. Great.

 

Much worse than keeping the half million donated by the son of a fascist eh Boris.

[Deevers]

29 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

There has just been a guy from Germany (may have been from the Bild newspaper) on Sky News and he was saying that Bundesliga teams are growing increasingly uneasy with going to Russia to celebrate a festival of football whilst the Russians are carrying out atrocities in Syria, and if the Russians have indeed carried out a terrorist attack on a fellow EU country then the German Football Federation and the EU would need to look very carefully at this.    

Only a corrupt organisation like FIFA would have given Russia the gig. 

 

 

 

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

30 minutes ago, Deevers said:

Only a corrupt organisation like FIFA would have given Russia the gig. 

 

 

 

 

 

Indeed.

 

 

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

1 hour ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

There has just been a guy from Germany (may have been from the Bild newspaper) on Sky News and he was saying that Bundesliga teams are growing increasingly uneasy with going to Russia to celebrate a festival of football whilst the Russians are carrying out atrocities in Syria, and if the Russians have indeed carried out a terrorist attack on a fellow EU country then the German Football Federation and the EU would need to look very carefully at this.    

I would say that a world cup boycott would be a way of snubbing Putin with his small man syndrome. I would also hope that western companies would stop advertising on RT!

[yabadabadoo1874again]

On 07/03/2018 at 22:28, Geoff the Mince said:

It's a news story on dozens of media outlets , what's the BBC got to do with it ? 

 

Who knows...

[Jambo-Jimbo]

16 minutes ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

I would say that a world cup boycott would be a way of snubbing Putin with his small man syndrome. I would also hope that western companies would stop advertising on RT!

 

A few questions in the Commons were asking if RT's licence to broadcast should be revoked.

 

Personally I wouldn't be overly supportive of that, simply because you'd then hand the Russian state an excuse to say that was UK state censorship and would allow RT to claim that they were telling the truth and that was why they were taken off the air, only commie sympathizers would agree with that, the rest of us though would know it was the usual RT propaganda. 

 

So yes, let them continue to broadcast their pish, but without Western advertising money, in fact I've never been a supporter of social media campaigns per se, but for once perhaps social media could name and shame every Western company which advertises on RT and threaten to boycott said companies as long as they continue to advertise on RT.

Hit the barstewards were it hurts them, in their pockets.

 

[yabadabadoo1874again]

 

Jackanory 24/7...best of british media reporting...highly 'authentic' p*sh...if you can tell the shit from the shinola you truly are an intrepid reporter !!!

[Pans Jambo]

As mentioned earlier in this thread, the evidence points squarly at Russia for this. Either The state directly or allowing it to happen by going for a cup of tea and leaving the chemical dump unlocked. 

 

Anyone else think its a bit too obvious? Who gains the most if theres friction between Russia and the UK/EU?

Why was this guy targetted after 8 years living in  England? It just sounds too clean to me. Wouldnt surprise me if theres an unknown agent provocateur at play. Or maybe it was just the Russians getting their man in the end. 

 

[Boris]

1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Much worse than keeping the half million donated by the son of a fascist eh Boris.

 

If you think Max Moseley is worse than state sponsored murder, then fair enough. I'm certainly not agreeing that the Labour Party should have taken his money, but then I'm not comparing the two different scenarios.

 

 

[Seymour M Hersh]

6 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

If you think Max Moseley is worse than state sponsored murder, then fair enough. I'm certainly not agreeing that the Labour Party should have taken his money, but then I'm not comparing the two different scenarios.

 

 

 

I was only referring to your comment about the Tory Party giving back the Oligarch cash. But you knew that. 

[Салатные палочки]

May has given Russia 24 hours to confess to the poisoning.  

 

You can just imagine Putin in his office, feet up on the desk on the phone "Yeah, it was us........why?"

 

"Well why didn't you just say that then.  Bye" 

[deesidejambo]

13 hours ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

Many countries including Germany have seen cyber attacks take place which strongly point back to Russia, so is it not time that a concerted European action involving sanctions aimed at Putin's business associates being considered!

 

Those pesky Russians -

State-sponsored doping at Sotchi (had to laugh at the secret tunnels - cute).

Bombing Syria

Annexing part of Ukraine

Shooting down Malaysian airline

Poisoning Litvinenko

Now at it again.

Cyber attacks

 

One thing and one thing alone is needed to stop them in their tracks - boycott the World Cup.    That is their big showpiece - Germany should host an alternative World Cup with like-minded nations which will sort out Russia and FIFA with one blow.

 

 

 

 

[Victorian]

A boycott of the World Cup is way, way too messy and contentious to be remotely achievable.     Governments and national football associations would never be able to agree to it.     I think Putin knows his World Cup is safe but he'll quite happily lap up all suggestions of a boycott.      More perceived anti-Russia propaganda to be hawked to the masses.