Goncalves - some Hearts fans in racist abuse claims

[Nucky Thompson]

I don't think it's a case of racists being racist, it's more a case of dafties being daft.

The same bams probably called Stockton a useless English bassa and Kitchen an American twat

[XB52]

24 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

I believe that everyone deserves a fair trial. This thread (unless I missed it) is not a poll for Do we have racist fans? I would have seleced 'Yes'. It is about one person and an accusation.

No person has been accused though. He has said he got racist abuse and you have said we have racist fans. 

[Peebo]

2 minutes ago, Section G The Place To Be said:

 

 

Yes. You don’t have to know the person personally to report racist abuse. If as claimed it has been heard lots of times then a report to the club in the first instance and the general va unity it was made should be enough. 

 

So I stand by my point. Staying silent makes you no better than the alleged culprits. Even more so if your going to jump on a fans forum months after the alleged abuse and make the claims you’ve heard It lots of times. 

Fair enough believing people should do more to report shouts they hear from somewhere within the section they sit, or surrounding area.

 

But “no better”? Jesus ****ing wept. 

[DG_HMFC]

Sad as ****! 

 

Have we ever had this sort of co.plaint before from one of our black players?

 

I don't think so?

 

Very strange that Isma has been targeted and not others, not as if he was a dreadful player. 

 

Wage thieves like Laryea Kingston never (not to my knowledge) had complaints about racism, which tells me it's most likely the young team (too young at the time?) who are the ones most likely dishing it out.

[redm]

I don’t think it’s even a tiny surprise that he didn’t mention it while he was here. He was getting a shit enough time from some in the stands as it is without opening himself up to this “aye, allegedly / he’s just making excuses for being lazy” debate. Who needs that?

 

The whole article is just a horrible read. Do I think he was getting this type of comment all the time? No. I also don’t think that it’s particularly relevant whether it happens a handful of times or whether it happens more regularly. Once you’ve had that a few times, you’re going to feel pretty unwelcome and when you top it up with completely merciless booing and aggression from the stands, it’s going to make life pretty miserable. 

 

He had to go out there, it’s his job, but his family stayed away because they couldn’t listen to it anymore. That’s really not great. 

[Bob Loblaw]

12 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

The fact no-one is on trial is kinda my point Sir.

What are you on about? You said it was a question of ‘If’ it was true. 

 

I then asked if you thought fans were lying about having heard racial abuse, both to him and other players. 

 

Of course no one is on trial, it’s an internet forum.  But you either think people on here and elsewhere are lying or they aren’t, it’s that simple.  If the conclusion is they aren’t lying, then Goncalves’ claims have more merit.

[@VladMagic]

If there is any good to come from a story like this, and I believe good will come from it, is that the club will be forced to take action. A story like this is incredibly damaging for the club not just because of the negative press and associated bad publicity but in the longer term when attempting to sign black players.

 

I expect a statement from Ann Budge today acknowledging the press reports and a detailed response on how the club plans to tackle this incident and others should they take place further down the line.

 

The idiots who did this should feel embarrassed and ashamed by their actions and if found to have made racists comments, immediately banned from the club for life.  

[gashauskis9]

5 minutes ago, FarmerTweedy said:

Maybe I've misinterpreted your post and if so, I apologise, but it seemed to me you were saying he shouldn't have spoken out because it makes the whole club and support look bad, and should have just stayed quiet. That's tantamount to sweeping it under the carpet. Again, apologies if I've just picked you up wrong. 

I meant he shouldn’t have come out in the press claiming we were a racist club, not if he had the chance to seek support while he was here.  The medium he has chosen means we are all victims of this with the exception of the abusers, because his integrity is now being challenged as is the integrity of tens of thousands of decent Hearts fans who don’t deserve to be tarred with this brush.  Once again, the shitbags in society walk away smelling of roses.

[sairyinthat]

1 minute ago, Barack said:

This thread is just getting ridiculous now.

 

In the top 3 worst posts on this thread. Comfortably.

 

Well done.

Think so?well I am not so gullible to believe every thing I read,maybe you should try it and refrain from attempting to be the site cop.

[luckydug]

1 hour ago, Peebo said:

I agree with the sentiment. However, it is quite possible that people will hear things being said, without having sufficient information to take things to the police. For example, with thousands of people on the stadium, it can be hard to pinpoint who said something. 

 

As for Isma, sounds like it just made him want to leave (understandably). Perhaps he thought not raising it officially was easiest way for that to happen. 

The problem is not just the odd idiot who shouts racial abuse.

It is fairly clear that a lot of our fans show less patience towards the black players in our team. The boo boys targeted Isma unfairly. There was lots of players just as guilty for under performing but Isma copped for the bulk of the abuse. Djoum gets more than his share of abuse as well and as for Prince the cretins are on his back as soon as he steps on the pitch.

To be clear I am talking about unfair treatment rather than outright racism. 

 

[McCrae]

I sit near to where the players family/friends sit in the new stand. I have never heard any racist abuse given to any player and am surprised by these comments. I have heard him being described as lazy and as Sh!t.   If true thus is totally unacceptable.  

i think it is more likely to be a misunderstanding.... a lost in translation moments.. where someone thought they heard a racist comment due to accent rather than anything being said.

[Bob Loblaw]

4 minutes ago, Gashauskis9 said:

I meant he shouldn’t have come out in the press claiming we were a racist club, not if he had the chance to seek support while he was here.  The medium he has chosen means we are all victims of this with the exception of the abusers, because his integrity is now being challenged as is the integrity of tens of thousands of decent Hearts fans who don’t deserve to be tarred with this brush.  Once again, the shitbags in society walk away smelling of roses.

I don't think he has necessarily said we are a racist club tbh.  He doesn't write the headline or the article.  He highlighted what he thought was unacceptable abuse but stressed it was a minority.  Praised fans who supported him and spoke about the club and staff in general in glowing terms.  He also separately highlighted the other issues about getting stick in general. 

 

I actually thought he came out of the interview relatively well 

[LogicalEric]

I can attest to hearing this in the Gorgie Stand. Especially from some of the wallopers that have been in the corporate for several hours. What I will say is that they were quickly shouted down by us.

 

Again, it’s a shame that a few cretins taint the great work the club do especially when it comes to diversity.

[Mac80]

absolute bullshit. 

 

If this happened, why didnt he raise an official complaint at the time? 

 

hes talking utter horseshit and trying to put the blame on us for his woeful performances. 

[super_vlad]

10 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

I don't think it's a case of racists being racist, it's more a case of dafties being daft.

The same bams probably called Stockton a useless English bassa and Kitchen an American twat

 

 

****ing laughable comment 

[Section G The Place To Be]

1 minute ago, VladMagic said:

If there is any good to come from a story like this, and I believe good will come from it, is that the club will be forced to take action. A story like this is incredibly damaging for the club not just because of the negative press and associated bad publicity but in the longer term when attempting to sign black players.

 

I expect a statement from Ann Budge today acknowledging the press reports and a detailed response on how the club plans to tackle this incident and others should they take place further down the line.

 

The idiots who did this should feel embarrassed and ashamed by their actions and if found to have made racists comments, immediately banned from the club for life.  

 

What will be interesting is if Ann comes out in a statement and says the club were aware or not aware of this and are dealing with it or will now be Looking into it. 

 

Id find it really bad if Isma has gone running to the media with this without having mentioned it to the club first when he said he was told by his wife and family. I would also question how plausible his story is. 

[a11ank]

This is not good.  We need to sort it out.

 

Like many, I have heard him criticised for being lazy, wasteful and greedy.  I have never heard him criticised for being black!

 

It needs to stop.  No debate!

[i8hibsh]

1 minute ago, XB52 said:

No person has been accused though. He has said he got racist abuse and you have said we have racist fans. 

 

I question if he personally was racially abused. 

 

A day in 2018:

 

Accuse and be believed.

 

A fair world:

 

Accuse and provide proof.

 

In this scenario in question a guy who played for us (half arsed most of the time) leaves the club then starts throwing arouund heinous allegations. Most people on this thread believe him because they know that there are racists out there. 

 

I want proof of his personal claims. I need more than "his wife heard it". And I hope to **** no-one on this thread ever sits on a jury. You have prejudice based on the fact there are racists out there. Shame on you. As in well there are racists out there so this must be true. Seriously have you any idea how wrong that is?

 

 

Note: this thread is only about one man's personal allegation. Please do not forget this.

[Jamboelite]

13 minutes ago, sairyinthat said:

Wouldn't believe a word of it,incomers to this country are very aware of the law and are not backward at using it.

Wow

[Mac80]

If he was racially abused for being shit then bauben would have been racially abused at a game long ago. 

 

I

 

 

[i8hibsh]

9 minutes ago, Bob Loblaw said:

What are you on about? You said it was a question of ‘If’ it was true. 

 

I then asked if you thought fans were lying about having heard racial abuse, both to him and other players. 

 

Of course no one is on trial, it’s an internet forum.  But you either think people on here and elsewhere are lying or they aren’t, it’s that simple.  If the conclusion is they aren’t lying, then Goncalves’ claims have more merit.

 

 

Good old trial by social media. Gotta love it.

[Escobar PHM]

2 hours ago, Ryder said:

 

Because Ive heard it happen plenty of times with my own ears.

Likewise. Been going on for years. The thing that surprises me is it isn't daft wee laddies doing it (not that that's any better) its mature/older respectable looking men. WTF are they thinking of ?

[BigAlim]

Only thing I heard was a lady telling her wee boy that Isma had been eating too much KFC, it's the kind of thing where if I'd said something she'd just act the fool and pretend she didn't mean it like that 

 

With Isma, Djoum and Buaben I have noticed that some in the crowd are almost on the edge of their seat waiting for them to do something wrong so that they can give it the "FFS insert name", tends to be middle aged folk who think they're too old to learn right from wrong 

[Section G The Place To Be]

1 minute ago, Escobar PHM said:

Likewise. Been going on for years. The thing that surprises me is it isn't daft wee laddies doing it (not that that's any better) its mature/older respectable looking men. WTF are they thinking of ?

 

 

So you have seen the people you claim have made racist comments. No report to the police, security or the club?  but happy to come on here and mention it. If you know enough that you can describe their looks and age you know where they are sitting. 

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

That is shocking and along with the idiotic minority bringing sectarianism back they should hang their heads in shame. 

We have had many black players for decades now and many have been club greats. It just beggars belief we have cretins like that in our support!

[The Internet]

6 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Good old trial by social media. Gotta love it.

 

I know it's your favourite phrase and makes you sound really clever but it's not really relevant here is it?

[Mac80]

I sit in Section N, and i can honestly say that i have never heard a comment about race directed at any player ever.

 

 

[Shaggy2]

7 minutes ago, luckydug said:

The problem is not just the odd idiot who shouts racial abuse.

It is fairly clear that a lot of our fans show less patience towards the black players in our team. The boo boys targeted Isma unfairly. There was lots of players just as guilty for under performing but Isma copped for the bulk of the abuse. Djoum gets more than his share of abuse as well and as for Prince the cretins are on his back as soon as he steps on the pitch.

To be clear I am talking about unfair treatment rather than outright racism. 

 

Not sure Jamie Walker, Sam Nicholson, Jack Hamilton, Aaron Hughes etc would agree we show patience due to skin colour. If a player does something we don't fully support, it's unfortunate but the Hearts fans are never slow to oblige with grief no matter who you are or where you come from.

[Roxy Hearts]

Unfortunately, racism and bigotry infest society. It is a minority but we all know it exists and is tragic.

 

It happens on the pitch too with the allegations of the Terry and Evra incidents.

 

Needs to be highlighted all the time to attempt to eradicate. Education and the media need to play a bigger role.

[Silvery_Moon]

2 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

Should have highlighted it whilst he was here.. Absolutely positive if he had highlighted this type of thing in the vicinity of his family the club would ha e taken every measure necessary to deal with it it.. Pretty strange to only highlight a grievance after you've left.. Even stranger to try Nd resolve that problem by going to Uzbekistan 

Totally agree. Should have highlighted it whilst here. 

[Mac80]

5 minutes ago, BigAlim said:

Only thing I heard was a lady telling her wee boy that Isma had been eating too much KFC, it's the kind of thing where if I'd said something she'd just act the fool and pretend she didn't mean it like that 

 

With Isma, Djoum and Buaben I have noticed that some in the crowd are almost on the edge of their seat waiting for them to do something wrong so that they can give it the "FFS insert name", tends to be middle aged folk who think they're too old to learn right from wrong 

 

Or she could have just been insinuating that isma is overweight... 

 

perhaps her son likes KFC and she was trying to make a joke with her son.

 

 

[sairyinthat]

9 minutes ago, Barack said:

You just stick to your sweeping xenophobia.

 

Cretin.

Look you,You just explain to me Why I should believe a story in Johnson Press about Hearts.And make it clear why You want Me to believe it.

[Escobar PHM]

1 minute ago, Section G The Place To Be said:

 

 

So you have seen the people you claim have made racist comments. No report to the police, security or the club?  but happy to come on here and mention it. If you know enough that you can describe their looks and age you know where they are sitting. 

On several occasions security were standing within earshot and took no action. Ive got little or no confidence that security would act or the club would act (unless there is solid evidence) me simply reporting it as an individual wouldn't be enough. I'm not the problem here.

[Hearts_fan]

2 hours ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Why of course?

 

 

 

Because Isma said it's true. Who would invent something like that?

[redm]

Friend of mine just pointed out that it’s nearly always black players described as being “lazy”. 

 

Interesting observation.

[sairyinthat]

9 minutes ago, Jamboelite said:

Wow

Same response to you as given Barrack and tell me why You believe it.

[Justin Z]

7 minutes ago, Mauricio Pinilla said:

 

I know it's your favourite phrase and makes you sound really clever but it's not really relevant here is it?

 

No. It's not a trial, there is no state-ordered punishment for conviction, no reasonable doubt standard, etc., because there are no consequences to the accused whether the allegation is held to be true or not. It's typical brainless bullshit from him.

[Escobar PHM]

Just now, sairyinthat said:

Same response to you as given Barrack and tell me why You believe it.

Well it all comes down to weight of evidence and the credibility. He isn't the first player to complain about racist or bigoted or xenophobic abuse from our fans and there are at least 5 or 6 posters on here who have witnessed it at games.

[All roads lead to Gorgie]

2 minutes ago, redm said:

Friend of mine just pointed out that it’s nearly always black players described as being “lazy”. 

 

Interesting observation.

I think Juanma, Watt, Glen and a few others have got called out for that as well!

[kila]

3 minutes ago, redm said:

Friend of mine just pointed out that it’s nearly always black players described as being “lazy”. 

 

Interesting observation.

 

Juanma, Watt, Walker to name a few white players who got the lazy tag

[Nobreath]

8 minutes ago, MacPhee said:

 

Or she could have just been insinuating that isma is overweight... 

 

perhaps her son likes KFC and she was trying to make a joke with her son.

 

 

 

What part of the ground do you sit in? I've heard racist outbursts at some point every where I've sat at Tynie. Normally only from the one moron at a time but I have heard it plenty times.

 

I've just noticed Section N. I sat in section N2 for three seasons and heard it plenty times. Glad it's all stopped now. 

[redm]

Just now, kila said:

 

Juanma, Watt, Walker to name a few white players who got the lazy tag

 

I don’t think they meant that it’s exclusive, just that it’s a common accusation for our black players. And now I think of it, it totally is. 

[The Internet]

7 minutes ago, redm said:

Friend of mine just pointed out that it’s nearly always black players described as being “lazy”. 

 

Interesting observation.

 

That's definitely not restricted to black players but it is the default criticism whenever Djoum, Isma, Buaben, etc has a bad game. Dauda was the same as was Zeefuik.

[Notts1874]

8 minutes ago, sairyinthat said:

Look you,You just explain to me Why I should believe a story in Johnson Press about Hearts.And make it clear why You want Me to believe it.

Wow...........So you are now saying that this is a conspiracy by the Evening News to damage Hearts?

 

You need help.

[Beast Boy]

15 minutes ago, Escobar PHM said:

Likewise. Been going on for years. The thing that surprises me is it isn't daft wee laddies doing it (not that that's any better) its mature/older respectable looking men. WTF are they thinking of ?

 

Agreed to an extent. In my experience it’s both though. 

[Haken]

26 minutes ago, Nucky Thompson said:

I don't think it's a case of racists being racist, it's more a case of dafties being daft.

The same bams probably called Stockton a useless English bassa and Kitchen an American twat

There is undoubtedly a lot of truth in what you say, but at the end of the day it doesn't really matter.  It's tempting to reach a position where we say it's not racism, it's just ignorance.  Well, that's what racism is - it's ignorance manifesting itself in the most unacceptable way.  And ignorance is no defence in law.

 

I never heard any of the types of abuse reported from where I sit in Q.  There are a couple of posters on this thread who have, and we can only take their word for that, especially given how vehemently they've been making their point.  The question has been asked, have they reported it?  I may have missed their answers on this thread.  Self-policing is the only way to tackle this unless we want to start filling sections with stewards armed with recording equipment.

 

The only observation I make about the EEN piece is that it struck me as a wee bit strange that Isma didn't feel he could go to the management because it was a personal matter for him to deal with, and yet he could go to the press. 

[CloustonHMFC]

He says racist comments were made to him by Hearts fans on his Instagram, I’m sure he will be able to supply these to the club when needed.

 

Pathetic from a section of our support to bury their heads in the sand and cry liar because it’s not something they want to hear. Pull yer head out the sand and accept that we have a minority in our support who find this acceptable behaviour. The club need to act and I’m certain they will. Embarrassing that folk are trying to deny, almost as embarrassing as the story itself.

[Ray Gin]

2 hours ago, Swanny17 said:

Absolutely shocking if true. ?

 

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/esmael-goncalves-claims-minority-of-hearts-fans-racially-abused-him-1-4688586

 

100% true, heard it myself. Utter clowns.

 

[Section G The Place To Be]

12 minutes ago, Escobar PHM said:

On several occasions security were standing within earshot and took no action. Ive got little or no confidence that security would act or the club would act (unless there is solid evidence) me simply reporting it as an individual wouldn't be enough. I'm not the problem here.

 

I completely get the comment about the security and agree they are a joke at the best of times. There are police and the club itself though. 

 

Im not looking to say you are the problem but if people like yourself hearbthese things especially if as you said it’s been for a long period of time then really your not helping rid the club of these morons by staying silent. Especially if you know who is doing it or where they sit. 

 

Would you walk past someone that was trapped and Injured and not report it? 

[ScottieMac17]

15 minutes ago, BigAlim said:

With Isma, Djoum and Buaben I have noticed that some in the crowd are almost on the edge of their seat waiting for them to do something wrong so that they can give it the "FFS insert name", tends to be middle aged folk who think they're too old to learn right from wrong 

 

Completely agree with that.

 

I've been to many a game where other players have been poor but get no stick, where Isma, Djoum or Buaben make one mistake and its open season for them getting abuse at them.