Goncalves - some Hearts fans in racist abuse claims

[ScottieMac17]

I have noticed some of the same sort of things directed at Prince, yeh he isn’t the best player but a few times Iv seen people slate him and then if he does something well it’s not applauded. I have heard some ‘useless b***k c***’ directed at Prince and Isma during games I have attended. 

 

Unfortunately racism is still around, we need to do everything to stop it! It’s a disgusting thing.

[Peebo]

3 minutes ago, Texia said:

That’s quite an accusation that you don’t think Hearts would have taken action against racial abuse of one of our players from our own supporters. 

It’s not an accusation at all. I didn’t suggest that.

 

For clarity, I meant that if this had been made public while at Hearts, I think many fans would have questioned his motives. Just as they are apparently questioning them now. 

[Regal Kingston]

Absolute scum

 

Zero tolerance from now on. 

Lenghty/Lifetime bans for those found guilty. 

 

They should be made to pass a rehabilitation course if they ever want to return 

 

I heard Isma get a lot of abuse but personally never heard anything mentioning his colour. Always seem to be a few in our crowd who are to quick to condemn him. Djoum too. 

 

Its definitely there here and it can’t be denied. 

 

This could affect our recruitment if it’s not nipped in the bud. 

[The Treasurer]

I've heard Isma get plenty of stick from the fans. 

The reasons were that he was lazy and more often than not played utter shite.

I have never heard him get stick for the colour of his skin.

Not saying it hasn't happened but I find it strange that he "deals" with it by bleating to the press months after the event. Not forgetting the media lap up anything negative about our club.

His story is full of holes, firstly he says he left because of the abuse, then it's because a lucrative offer came in.

He says he keeps these sort of things to himself, then he says he told about half a dozen players.

We have players of all different races at the club, some more popular than others but I've yet to hear any other player complain about racist abuse from the fans.

[Jamboelite]

1 hour ago, i8hibsh said:

If this is true then it really is sad. It is 2018 ffs. Really hate the thought of this. But as I said, IF it is true.

Its not a question of IF its true there are plenty people who hear it and we as a support need to stop burying our head in the sand ffs.

 

There some absolutely ****wits in our support that need told in no uncertain terms to FO if this is their attitude.

[FarmerTweedy]

1 hour ago, Section Q said:

But he still recommended the club to our on loan midfielder from Sion.

x 1,000,000.

[Section G The Place To Be]

When I first read this online my initial thoughts apart from being disgusted were, if this has happened why have no other fans around the alleged culprits done anything about it and said something at the time? If they are too scared to say it to their faces why have they not reported it to the club and security? So I thought maybe this isn’t quite what it seems.

 

Now apparently some fans are claiming to have heard this and only now speaking up because it’s in a newspaper? Why wait until now to speak up? Staying silent about this makes them No better than the alleged culprits. No point waiting until he goes running to the press to come on here with the faux outrage at alleged racism. 

 

As someone elsewhere here online said. His family etc would have been sitting in the main stand most likely around hospitality or directors area. That in itself is worrying if these are the areas where any racist comments were coming from. 

[kila]

Thankfully I haven't heard him called anything racist in my area near the dugouts. Would his family have been sitting closer to the premium seats?

 

A few folk mentioning him being a fat lazy barsteward, etc.

 

Sickening if folk were calling him racist stuff. Hope the club try to weed out the arseholes who did.

 

 

 

 

[adayinmay]

Really depressing read. 

The sectarian and racist issue is on the rise it seems.  ... and amongst our fans too. 

I've heard it more this season than in any other in the last 10. 

We need much more support from stewards to help deal with it. Having more qualified stewards would help. 

Twice this season I've tried asking a guy behind me to stop racist shouts and it just ends in a blown up argument with his mates backing him up. Became me against 4. When you're sitting there with your kid and you're threatened with having your head smashed it's no fun. 

It shouldn't and can't just be up to the fans to police ourselves. 

The club needs to help. 

[Unknown user]

12 minutes ago, Lambo85 said:

 

Theres better ways of handling though isn’t there than reporting it to an Edinburgh newspaper. I am sure if it he had reported it at the time then the club would gave dealt with it straight away.

Racism is totally unacceptable and there are people on here that claim to have head him get racially abused. My question to them is why did you not report this yourselves? You you could have reported this to the club after the game if you were worried about reporting it to a steward or a police officer during the game.

Why shouldn't he answer questions if they phone him for an interview? Maybe he doesn't like racism but didn't feel like ostracising himself further while still an employee, maybe he's as complicated as any one of us with god knows what in his private life, it doesn't matter.

[jr ewing]

Report the seat number to the club and let them act on it.

[Beast Boy]

14 minutes ago, The Treasurer said:

I've heard Isma get plenty of stick from the fans. 

The reasons were that he was lazy and more often than not played utter shite.

I have never heard him get stick for the colour of his skin.

Not saying it hasn't happened but I find it strange that he "deals" with it by bleating to the press months after the event. Not forgetting the media lap up anything negative about our club.

His story is full of holes, firstly he says he left because of the abuse, then it's because a lucrative offer came in.

He says he keeps these sort of things to himself, then he says he told about half a dozen players.

We have players of all different races at the club, some more popular than others but I've yet to hear any other player complain about racist abuse from the fans.

 

Another lucky fan then. I’ve heard it a lot and at many different players.

[Jodami]

How can anyone truly be shocked at this! Goncalves is correct, definitely heard racist comments made about him at games. And not just him, sometimes it's overt and sometimes our black players just seem to be judged by different criteria in some quarters of our support. I for one am delighted he is talking about it in the press. Bigotry is creeping back in the support and once you let that happen you open the door to racism. The club will do nothing about it either, they are not serious about doing anything substantive despite it being easy to identify some of the bigots and racists who follow us away from home. 

[Glottis]

I've never heard racist comments towards Isma but I've heard racist comments towards others (our own and other players)

 

It's unacceptable and we need to weed it out.

We've got players of many different colours and nationalities and I don't want us missing out on more due to a bad reputation.

 

[FarmerTweedy]

1 hour ago, Irufushi said:

 

Provide evidence plz. 

 

What a moronic response. How would someone provide evidence that they'd heard someone else say something?

[The Internet]

Doesn't surprise me in the slightest sadly. I never heard any of these comments but there's a running theme on players some Hearts fans seem to single out for the worst abuse.

[Peebo]

3 minutes ago, Section G The Place To Be said:

When I first read this online my initial thoughts apart from being disgusted were, if this has happened why have no other fans around the alleged culprits done anything about it and said something at the time? If they are too scared to say it to their faces why have they not reported it to the club and security? So I thought maybe this isn’t quite what it seems.

 

Now apparently some fans are claiming to have heard this and only now speaking up because it’s in a newspaper? Why wait until now to speak up? Staying silent about this makes them No better than the alleged culprits. No point waiting until he goes running to the press to come on here with the faux outrage at alleged racism. 

 

As someone elsewhere here online said. His family etc would have been sitting in the main stand most likely around hospitality or directors area. That in itself is worrying if these are the areas where any racist comments were coming from. 

“Staying silent” about racist abuse coming from an unidentifiable person makes you no better than the person shouting the abuse?

 

Jesus ****ing wept. 

[i8hibsh]

7 minutes ago, Jamboelite said:

Its not a question of IF its true there are plenty people who hear it and we as a support need to stop burying our head in the sand ffs.

 

There some absolutely ****wits in our support that need told in no uncertain terms to FO if this is their attitude.

 

Wow.

 

It is 100% a question of "if". Is that how easy it is for you?

 

A woman goes to the police and says jamboelite sexually assaulted her then you get convicted purely because there are perverts out there.

 

These are incidents he refers to. They need investigated then if and only IF found to be true action should be taken.

[KevinKyle10]

1 hour ago, i8hibsh said:

 

I have not. 

 

I am not naive enough to think it does not happen but I certainly do not want to live in a society that convicts a minority of people of a crime just because they have been accused of it.

 

No you’d rather they continued to live like dinosaurs. If you claim to have not heard it at games (aimed at Isma or anyone else,) you are either deaf or lying.

I’ve also missed the masses clambering for convictions. All I’ve read is people stating that they’re not hiding from the fact that morons in our support still exist.

[Bob Loblaw]

Just now, i8hibsh said:

 

Wow.

 

It is 100% a question of "if". Is that how easy it is for you?

 

A woman goes to the police and says jamboelite sexually assaulted her then you get convicted purely because there are perverts out there.

 

These are incidents he refers to. They need investigated then if and only IF found to be true action should be taken.

Do you think everyone on this thread who've said they've heard racist abuse whether it be Isma or someone else are lying?  All of them?  We have an undesirable element in our support, yes it's a minority, but it's definitely there.  Ignoring it and not acknowledging it is a huge issue.

[Gimme an H...]

Absolute neanderthal scum. 

 

Disgusting idiot(s).

[jambo1975]

Cant say I have ever heard any racist abuse towards him. Plenty of abuse as he was a very frustrating player but nothing racial. What i find strange is that if the abuse was made in earshot of his family why they didnt say or do anything at the time. Im not saying the abuse didnt happen i just find it really bizzare for him to wait till he has left the club to say anything. If he had approached the club he must have known he would have been supported fully.

[wavydavy]

I  wonder if the person who wrote this had a word with the other black players at our club to ask them if they have suffered the same alleged abuse?

[i8hibsh]

Just now, Bob Loblaw said:

Do you think everyone on this thread who've said they've heard racist abuse whether it be Isma or someone else are lying?  All of them?  We have an undesirable element in our support, yes it's a minority, but it's definitely there.  Ignoring it and not acknowledging it is a huge issue.

 

I believe that everyone deserves a fair trial. This thread (unless I missed it) is not a poll for Do we have racist fans? I would have seleced 'Yes'. It is about one person and an accusation.

[brux]

I have to say I have not heard any racist comments.  Sectarian stuff however I still hear most games

[Rudy T]

2 minutes ago, jambo1975 said:

Cant say I have ever heard any racist abuse towards him. Plenty of abuse as he was a very frustrating player but nothing racial. What i find strange is that if the abuse was made in earshot of his family why they didnt say or do anything at the time. Im not saying the abuse didnt happen i just find it really bizzare for him to wait till he has left the club to say anything. If he had approached the club he must have known he would have been supported fully.

 

This is were I'm at. Only way to stop it is to deal with it at the time.

[bobskeldon]

Why would 

1 hour ago, Peebo said:

I agree with the sentiment. However, it is quite possible that people will hear things being said, without having sufficient information to take things to the police. For example, with thousands of people on the stadium, it can be hard to pinpoint who said something. 

 

As for Isma, sounds like it just made him want to leave (understandably). Perhaps he thought not raising it officially was easiest way for that to happen. 

"For example, with thousands of people on the stadium, it can be hard to pinpoint who said something." 

 

Wrong! A couple of years ago, I reported a Hearts 'fan' at Starks Park who called Christian Nade a black b*****d. Stewards came up took guy away. I missed 10 mins of the match providing a statement to Police. Only outcome was me receiving a standard letter offering support as I had been the victim of crime!  Contacted Hearts to ask why this guy was still attending Heart's matches at Tynecastle and other grounds and I still await a response! 

[Dagger Is Back]

25 minutes ago, Peebo said:

I suspect that the relief at getting away from a club where he has encountered racial abuse may outweigh any feeling he may have of a missed opportunity in terms of addressing the issue at that club. 

 

I think you have misunderstood my post which is because I haven't explained myself properly.

 

What his family have had to suffer is horrific and unacceptable at our club and in society as a whole. My point is how do you respond to that? Isma has decided to walk away and I get his reasons for that. He said that he didn't want to leave at first but when faced with a workplace issue, he chose not to speak to anyone about it. He would have undoubtedly received 100% support from colleagues, HMFC staff, our Board and the vast vast majority of us.  There was an opportunity for him and the club to take a joint stance on this to take another step towards eradicating the remaining cavemen within our support and we've missed that opportunity.

 

Isma IMHO, had a chance to stand up and be a driving force behind stamping out racism in our club and football as a whole, and whilst I'm disgusted that he's been subjected to this at Hearts, I'm also disappointed that he didn't work with us in a more positive manner. Football players around the world have taken a very pro-active public stance on this issue and I just wish he'd done the same.

[Saint Jambo]

"If it is true" - The player and several fans on this thread have said they have heard racist abuse. People that are still questioning if it is true need to have a long hard think about why they are in denial about something that has so much evidence. If several people tell you Hearts won a game that you weren't at is your response to walk around saying "really pleased we won, if it is true".

 

"I've never heard if, it can't be true" - You are in a crowd of 13k+. Assuming that they aren't waiting for a moment of silence before shouting the racist abuse, the number of people you can hear clearly is probably within the dozens to a couple of hundred range of those most directly around you.

 

"Why didn't you do something at the time" - It can be scary to challenge. The shout could have come from behind you. Even if it comes from a couple of seats away from you, if like a normal supporter you were focussed on the game, it can be hard to be sure of who shouted something. Then there is the issue that if reported after the game it almost certainly becomes your word against their word and they can claim that you misheard them shout "fat" or some other excuse.

 

"Why did he wait until now" - Try not to judge or question a victims reaction to being racially abused. I've been with people when they've been racially abused and the reaction can run from extreme anger, to just wanting to move on and not create a fuss, to an inexplicable feeling of shame. Maybe he was worried that if he had mentioned it at the time, some fans wouldn't have believed him and would have claimed he was just diverting because of poor performances. Based on this thread that would seem a totally credible worry. Maybe he thought it would just invite more abuse, including more racist abuse, and didn't want to deal with it. Does that mean he should never be allowed to talk about it? No.

[Bob Loblaw]

2 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

I believe that everyone deserves a fair trial. This thread (unless I missed it) is not a poll for Do we have racist fans? I would have seleced 'Yes'. It is about one person and an accusation.

There's not anyone on trial though.  And there's no specific individual accused of anything so it pretty much does come down to whether we have racist fans.  If the answer is yes, Goncalves' claims carry some credence.

[Bungalow Bill]

Have heard a couple of racist remarks over the last 2 seasons, thoroughly depressing. The sectarian stuff has never gone away especially at the away games. 

[Nucky Thompson]

I predict that this thread will become infested with vermin when they wake up from their drug induced slumber

[Jammy T]

Oh - new dimension of cretinism - Goncalves is a liar.

 

Well that’s black folks for you I guess. 

[maroonnicky63]

Just now, Ryder said:

 

Its not inexcusable at all ffs. He was racially abused in front of his wife and kids. No point hiding from it or trying to blame him for speaking out about it. We to start accepting we have folk like that in our support and hopefully deal with it.

Well said sir and spot on but unfortunately there will be the odd one or two who will agree but throw a fail over it trying to put some blame on the player or his family.

We need to weed the weasels out and get them out of our club

[Peebo]

3 minutes ago, bobskeldon said:

Why would 

"For example, with thousands of people on the stadium, it can be hard to pinpoint who said something." 

 

Wrong! A couple of years ago, I reported a Hearts 'fan' at Starks Park who called Christian Nade a black b*****d. Stewards came up took guy away. I missed 10 mins of the match providing a statement to Police. Only outcome was me receiving a standard letter offering support as I had been the victim of crime!  Contacted Hearts to ask why this guy was still attending Heart's matches at Tynecastle and other grounds and I still await a response! 

Wrong? Really? You were able to, and did. That’s great, and well done.

 

But you think it’s wrong to say “it can be hard to pinpoint someone”. It is hard. Doesn’t mean it can’t be done in some cases.

[upgotheheads]

1 hour ago, Ryder said:

It’s 100% true. No idea if his family sat anywhere near the two different seats in different stands that I’ve occupied since he’s been at Hearts, but I’ve heard him called a black ******* on plenty of occasions. Also heard him called a coon at Hampden in the League Cup Final. We have some ****ing scum in our support.

 

 

 

Now that's strange because I've never heard any racial remarks by supporters anywhere near the various seats I've used.

Arnaud Djoum, Prince, Sowe, numerous others? Nobody else has mentioned it.

 

 

1 hour ago, Ryder said:

 

Of course it’s true ffs. 

 

Is it?

 

1 hour ago, kimosavi said:

Find it hard to believe any hearts fans would condone racial shouts at our players and not be challenged or reported to security

 

 

 

Nail on head.

 

1 hour ago, Ryder said:

 

Because Ive heard it happen plenty of times with my own ears.

 

I don't believe you, and if you did did you report it to police or stewards?

[Don Dan]

Can’t say I’ve heard any racist comments in long time at Tynecastle. I do remember a reference to the Ref when they wore black being shouted but as far as I was aware it wasn’t meant in a racist way. 

I often here shouts and comments about a players effort and ability and I’ve heard people shout at Isma when his control was poor or he seemed to show lack of effort. Even on here people vent their frustration at players including Isma. He has deserved it at times. 

We have quite a few black players in our team and the fact they are black or green should never enter into it, ever. 

 

[Peebo]

4 minutes ago, Dagger Is Back said:

 

I think you have misunderstood my post which is because I haven't explained myself properly.

 

What his family have had to suffer is horrific and unacceptable at our club and in society as a whole. My point is how do you respond to that? Isma has decided to walk away and I get his reasons for that. He said that he didn't want to leave at first but when faced with a workplace issue, he chose not to speak to anyone about it. He would have undoubtedly received 100% support from colleagues, HMFC staff, our Board and the vast vast majority of us.  There was an opportunity for him and the club to take a joint stance on this to take another step towards eradicating the remaining cavemen within our support and we've missed that opportunity.

 

Isma IMHO, had a chance to stand up and be a driving force behind stamping out racism in our club and football as a whole, and whilst I'm disgusted that he's been subjected to this at Hearts, I'm also disappointed that he didn't work with us in a more positive manner. Football players around the world have taken a very pro-active public stance on this issue and I just wish he'd done the same.

Fair enough. I thought the part that I referred to was pretty clear, but appreciate your further clarification and expansion. 

 

As said elsewhere, victims will react differently to such abuse. And the pro-active stance doesn’t always work. Some black players on the Continent have been punished for their reactions to abuse, for example. 

[bobskeldon]

2 minutes ago, Peebo said:

Wrong? Really? You were able to, and did. That’s great, and well done.

 

But you think it’s wrong to say “it can be hard to pinpoint someone”. It is hard. Doesn’t mean it can’t be done in some cases.

It may be hard for the authorities e.g. stewards and police to "pinpoint" an individual, but it is not difficult for whoever is sitting

beside or in the vacinity of the person shouting racist abuse to identify him/her!

[Nobreath]

1 hour ago, i8hibsh said:

If this is true then it really is sad. It is 2018 ffs. Really hate the thought of this. But as I said, IF it is true.

 

 

I completely believe it.

 

I sat in lower G a few years ago where there were a couple of older blokes who regularly came out with shit like that if one of our black players was having a poor game. Sad thing was one of them was bringing his young teenage son to the games. I hold my hand up and admit I never done anything at the time, other than a glance round and a dirty look.

 

One of the reasons I moved away from that area as I couldn't stand being near those idiots.

[Dagger Is Back]

2 minutes ago, Peebo said:

Fair enough. I thought the part that I referred to was pretty clear, but appreciate your further clarification and expansion. 

 

As said elsewhere, victims will react differently to such abuse. And the pro-active stance doesn’t always work. Some black players on the Continent have been punished for their reactions to abuse, for example. 

 

Indeed Peebo. Sadly it doesn't always work you're right and it can even come back to bite you on the arse. Sometmes we think we've come so far and then you realise we still have a long long way to  go

[Spencer]

1 hour ago, Jambof3tornado said:

This should surprise nobody.

 

Disgusting.

No it shouldn't.  Reading some of the comments on this thread I can only conclude some have selective hearing. That's no shock either. Some see it as their duty to defend the indefensible 

 

I'm sure it exists with all clubs but we really have some degenerates within our support 

[Jamboelite]

15 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

Wow.

 

It is 100% a question of "if". Is that how easy it is for you?

 

A woman goes to the police and says jamboelite sexually assaulted her then you get convicted purely because there are perverts out there.

 

These are incidents he refers to. They need investigated then if and only IF found to be true action should be taken.

Listen champ its been mentioned before about people hearing it, and not just against him, so while you want to be waiting till proof arrives in the form of a tape recording its not a big ****ing leap here. Unless of course you feel those saying they hear it are just making it up ?

 

We have had an element of racism in our support in the 35years i have been going, this isnt a revelation that a minority are still entrenched in that view and air it.

 

 

[i8hibsh]

12 minutes ago, Bob Loblaw said:

There's not anyone on trial though.  And there's no specific individual accused of anything so it pretty much does come down to whether we have racist fans.  If the answer is yes, Goncalves' claims carry some credence.

 

The fact no-one is on trial is kinda my point Sir.

[jambomjm74]

He wasn’t liked by the fans, no doubt and he didn’t like us... so the story coming out now is due to that. He should have spoken to the club and asked for it to be addressed. Ann budge has led a campaign to introduce families.. and I am certain would have supported him here.

I expect it is true, although is a small narrow minded uneducated minority.

The Minority, that’s what it is, using racist language, need to be dealt with. Bans and education. I am certain that some would see certain phrases as acceptable and need to learn right from wrong(ban and educate)

i would say the majority of fans didn’t dislike home because of his colour, couldn’t care less, they disliked him because he was completely erratic and often extremely lazy and we’re vocal about it. 

[Peebo]

6 minutes ago, bobskeldon said:

It may be hard for the authorities e.g. stewards and police to "pinpoint" an individual, but it is not difficult for whoever is sitting

beside or in the vacinity of the person shouting racist abuse to identify him/her!

Hard if you are in front, though!

[Shaggy2]

Another question. He is quoted as saying his wife/kid/brother stopped coming to games. When Clare Cowan asked him how many tickets he wanted put aside for his family, I find it hard to believe she wouldn't be concerned when he was continually saying none? I'm sure she'd have asked if everything was ok. 

 

Why hide the reason? 

[FarmerTweedy]

56 minutes ago, Gashauskis9 said:

Please tell me where I said sweep it under the carpet?  If you read the thread you’ll also see me commenting on me reporting racism to stewards at games.  I think it’s diabolical and embarrassing that we have this element in our support, all I was doing though was being honest and pointing out some holes in the article which there clearly are and others on the thread have pointed out.  I wasn’t saying it was an excuse for his or his family’s treatment FFS, far from it.

Maybe I've misinterpreted your post and if so, I apologise, but it seemed to me you were saying he shouldn't have spoken out because it makes the whole club and support look bad, and should have just stayed quiet. That's tantamount to sweeping it under the carpet. Again, apologies if I've just picked you up wrong. 

[Section G The Place To Be]

31 minutes ago, Peebo said:

“Staying silent” about racist abuse coming from an unidentifiable person makes you no better than the person shouting the abuse?

 

Jesus ****ing wept. 

 

 

Yes. You don’t have to know the person personally to report racist abuse. If as claimed it has been heard lots of times then a report to the club in the first instance and the general va unity it was made should be enough. 

 

So I stand by my point. Staying silent makes you no better than the alleged culprits. Even more so if your going to jump on a fans forum months after the alleged abuse and make the claims you’ve heard It lots of times. 

[Koolkeith]

The bottom line is that we have quite a few racist and biggoted fans, so this shouldn’t surprise anyone.