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jb102

Construction giant Carillion compulsory liquidation

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jb102

Public bail out for this monster will prove too toxic and may hasten Tory exit from government.

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doctor jambo

Have tendered against another big company before - similar modus operandi- bid low, secure the contract, then worry about delivering it later-

securing MORE work boosts share price, allows them to borrow more against orders, and so it rolls on

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John Findlay

Main contractor for the re-development work at Waverley station. Only halfway through. Be interesting to see what happens now.

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Dannie Boy

Interesting comment I heard this morning. Due to cut backs Carillion had to bid low to win the jobs. That decision is in itself madness. In the past I have been involved in tendering for contracts and that one corporate decision never ever ends well. 

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John Findlay

PS.  Is this the longest thread title in kickback history?

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doctor jambo
2 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

Interesting comment I heard this morning. Due to cut backs Carillion had to bid low to win the jobs. That decision is in itself madness. In the past I have been involved in tendering for contracts and that one corporate decision never ever ends well. 

They didn't "have " to bid low

They undercut rivals to secure work to keep share price up.

I wouldn't apply for a job that at the end of the month I had to pay money INTO

And nor should they

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frankblack

I am genuinely surprised this government didn't bail them out to put some of their MPs on the board to tide them over once they lose the next election.

 

Zero sympathy for me with this company.  Only sympathy are for their suppliers.

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Salad Fingers
25 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

PS.  Is this the longest thread title in kickback history?

 

Ha. Was just thinking that. 

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Lord BJ
17 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

They didn't "have " to bid low

They undercut rivals to secure work to keep share price up.

I wouldn't apply for a job that at the end of the month I had to pay money INTO

And nor should they

 

Its not particularly uncommon to tender with no profit and even a loss, particularly on large government contracts where there are opportunities to get extras during the contract.

 

I have long been a porepronant of lowest price tenders should be disecarded on governmental contracts to ensure a focus on product as cost. It will never happen though.

 

We all like to get lowest price as possible and public bodies aren’t any different. Many ways much worse actually.

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doctor jambo
10 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

 

Its not particularly uncommon to tender with no profit and even a loss, particularly on large government contracts where there are opportunities to get extras during the contract.

 

I have long been a porepronant of lowest price tenders should be disecarded on governmental contracts to ensure a focus on product as cost. It will never happen though.

 

We all like to get lowest price as possible and public bodies aren’t any different. Many ways much worse actually.

There should be supervision of all tenders to ensure viability- all tenders should be deliverable

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King prawn
52 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

PS.  Is this the longest thread title in kickback history?

Perhaps a new trend of putting the post in the title and the title in the post ?

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Dino Velvet
55 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

PS.  Is this the longest thread title in kickback history?

 

Since Shaun Lawson left, yes. 

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jb102
9 minutes ago, King prawn said:

Perhaps a new trend of putting the post in the title and the title in the post ?

Just getting to grips with the copy and paste thing.

I didn't think I'd included the link.

I was always shite at colouring in.

 

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Cade

Privatize the profits, socialize the losses.

 

Carillion has been in soapy bubble for at least two years, and yet simpletons in the Government such as Chris Grayling kept on giving them more contracts!

Why would you give contracts to a firm on the edge of collapse?

 

Wonder how much the taxpayer is going to be stung for with this latest shambles.

 

Not only will we probably have to shell out for pensions, redundancies and other payoffs, but all the now-defunct contracts will need re-tendering.

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Paolo

EU rules restrict how much of a bail out, if any can be made. 

 

The banks, under the rule, were the exception (rightly or wrongly), because if the exceptional impact on the economy and public, and the shear volume of staff employed.   It made up a rather large percentage of employment as a whole. 

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Homme

In my opinion they've been useless for a good while now. Not surprised at this in the slightest.

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Homme
2 hours ago, John Findlay said:

PS.  Is this the longest thread title in kickback history?

 

Not even the longest in page 1 of the shed :lol:

Edited by Homme

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John Findlay
1 hour ago, Homme said:

 

Not even the longest in page 1 of the shed :lol:

Only because the Stazi, sorry mods have taken the scissors to it. Must be a right miserable sod mod on watch at present :laugh:

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jb102
5 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Only because the Stazi, sorry mods have taken the scissors to it. Must be a right miserable sod mod on watch at present :laugh:

 

Not at my request.I liked it better the old way.

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Bristol jamboree 10

Get the contract.Sub contract work.Hold back payment to suppliers then tell them you will pay 70% now to clear bill.Big fire in London tower comes to mind.

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Jambof3tornado
8 hours ago, Cade said:

Privatize the profits, socialize the losses.

 

Carillion has been in soapy bubble for at least two years, and yet simpletons in the Government such as Chris Grayling kept on giving them more contracts!

Why would you give contracts to a firm on the edge of collapse?

 

Wonder how much the taxpayer is going to be stung for with this latest shambles.

 

Not only will we probably have to shell out for pensions, redundancies and other payoffs, but all the now-defunct contracts will need re-tendering.

Heard them on the news discussing the aberdeen bypass and they said to reduce risk the contract went out to 3 companies and the remaining 2 and jointly and severally liable to finish the job, so not all the contracts will need re-tendering. Its a fekkin mess though.

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Dusk_Till_Dawn
8 hours ago, Cade said:

Privatize the profits, socialize the losses.

 

Carillion has been in soapy bubble for at least two years, and yet simpletons in the Government such as Chris Grayling kept on giving them more contracts!

Why would you give contracts to a firm on the edge of collapse?

 

Wonder how much the taxpayer is going to be stung for with this latest shambles.

 

Not only will we probably have to shell out for pensions, redundancies and other payoffs, but all the now-defunct contracts will need re-tendering.

 

Chris Grayling is an utter *****

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Cade

19,500 people directly employed by Carillion in the UK.

Another 20,000 direct employees based in Europe.

 

30,000 small firms owed money that they may never get, the total debt bill running into billions.

Presumably they employ many tens of thousands more people.

 

What a total shambles.

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3fingersreid

And yet ex-directors still being paid £600,000 a year and in new employment ??

Is it possible to make criminal charges ? 

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Dunks

How many of the senior directors are Tory donators? :huh:

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southcap
3 minutes ago, 3fingersreid said:

And yet ex-directors still being paid £600,000 a year and in new employment ??

Is it possible to make criminal charges ? 

Once a decade, these type of people need to be found out and strung up.

 

Put others off doing similar.

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Jambo-Jimbo
17 minutes ago, Cade said:

19,500 people directly employed by Carillion in the UK.

Another 20,000 direct employees based in Europe.

 

30,000 small firms owed money that they may never get, the total debt bill running into billions.

Presumably they employ many tens of thousands more people.

 

What a total shambles.

 

Always is a shambles when a company does bust, they almost always owe a lot of money to many many other firms which often then has a knock-on effect in terms of jobs.

The collapse of Carillion is no different in that respect from the collapse of a local firm employing 150 employees, just Carillion is somewhat bigger and thus will have a bigger knock-on effect.

Seems it's the banks which are going to take the biggest hit in terms of debt owed, some £2bn they were saying on the news earlier.

 

Never a good situation when any company folds, whether that be one who employs 40,000 or one who employs 40 as there is a knock-on effect no matter what their size be.

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Jambo-Jimbo
11 minutes ago, 3fingersreid said:

And yet ex-directors still being paid £600,000 a year and in new employment ??

Is it possible to make criminal charges ? 

 

Like I said on another thread, it seems that there are lots of failed company directors, council officials etc etc etc who get sacked for being useless only to then walk straight into another high paying job and the merry-go-round starts all over again.

 

Been like this for as long as I can recall, and I don't think it'll change any time soon either.

 

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3fingersreid
4 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Like I said on another thread, it seems that there are lots of failed company directors, council officials etc etc etc who get sacked for being useless only to then walk straight into another high paying job and the merry-go-round starts all over again.

 

Been like this for as long as I can recall, and I don't think it'll change any time soon either.

 

Yep happened back to me in 2006 when the printers I worked at closed down , 300 people made redundant-govt minimum rate- yet the directors received better terms and most if not all went straight into similar positions in other companies .

The law needs to be firmed up in the banning of directors being allowed to walk into similar positions , there is a law in place but it seems like it's easy to get around .

Really feel for the employees and sub-contractors with this situation .

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DVB

I understand that they lost a lot of money in the Middle East and that the Government contracts had a very low profit level. It seems like madness for them to hold so many different types of govt. contracts. The signs were there on the share price and the length of time they were paying subcontractors that they were in trouble.

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Jambo-Jimbo
2 minutes ago, 3fingersreid said:

Yep happened back to me in 2006 when the printers I worked at closed down , 300 people made redundant-govt minimum rate- yet the directors received better terms and most if not all went straight into similar positions in other companies .

The law needs to be firmed up in the banning of directors being allowed to walk into similar positions , there is a law in place but it seems like it's easy to get around .

Really feel for the employees and sub-contractors with this situation .

 

Mine was in 2010 but we were owned by a foreign owner who after racking up huge debts (in relative terms, to the companies turnover) called in the administrators, he slinked off back to Italy, leaving the UK Government to foot the bill as in terms of redundancy payments, missed Tax/NI payments etc etc, etc, you name it he hadn't paid it.

Not only did 130 people lose their jobs, but a couple of the local suppliers/sub-contractors closed within a month or two as they were owed a lot of money which they couldn't cope with the loss of and in the following couple of years afterwards several local shops either had to sell-up or close, ripped out the town's heart it did, and it's never recovered, probably never will.

 

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3fingersreid
1 hour ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Mine was in 2010 but we were owned by a foreign owner who after racking up huge debts (in relative terms, to the companies turnover) called in the administrators, he slinked off back to Italy, leaving the UK Government to foot the bill as in terms of redundancy payments, missed Tax/NI payments etc etc, etc, you name it he hadn't paid it.

Not only did 130 people lose their jobs, but a couple of the local suppliers/sub-contractors closed within a month or two as they were owed a lot of money which they couldn't cope with the loss of and in the following couple of years afterwards several local shops either had to sell-up or close, ripped out the town's heart it did, and it's never recovered, probably never will.

 

And that's why it pisses me off so much , it's like a ripple effect but somehow manages to avoid the poeple at the top ,the ones who are meant to be the best at the job but clearly aren't . 

As Ive said and I'm not sure it's possible but when it's on a scale like this criminal charges should be applied.

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The Brow

The stocks were being shortened as far back as 2013. You didnt have to be mystic meg to see it was a shit show, the evidence was there. 

 

The way that accounts are audited needs ripping up and starting again, auditors essentially work for the shareholders ffs. Grim. 

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Victorian

All the usual scumbaggery you would expect from the executives.     But the government's quick as a flash,  big bad scary really serious inquest into this company's directors is for one thing only.     To get all the pointy fingers pointing in the opposite direction from the government.      Once the dust has settled a bit,   the big bad scary inquest will result in very very little.     

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Cade
1 hour ago, The Brow said:

The stocks were being shortened as far back as 2013. You didnt have to be mystic meg to see it was a shit show, the evidence was there. 

 

The way that accounts are audited needs ripping up and starting again, auditors essentially work for the shareholders ffs. Grim. 

And yet the Govt kept throwing contracts at them

 

:vrface: 

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Space Mackerel

James O’Brien on LBC has had some excellent callers last couple of days giving the low down on public procurement and this insolvency. 

 

I think they do a catch up service, well worth a listen. 

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dav1e

Some of their bosses being paid thousands until October, what a bunch of bare faced criminals, how much did they donate to the Conservative Party? Legal gangsterism alive an well in the U.K.

 

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Victorian
3 minutes ago, dav1e said:

Some of their bosses being paid thousands until October, what a bunch of bare faced criminals, how much did they donate to the Conservative Party? Legal gangsterism alive an well in the U.K.

 

 

One of them was a government advisor on corporate conduct.    :rofl:

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skinnybob72

Interesting seeing RBS say that they were not prepared to lend more money because they didn't think Carillion's business plan was viable. That would be RBS who needed a massive bail out from the taxpayer a few years back otherwise they were down the pan. Money they have yet to fully pay back. 

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Cade

Hundreds of subcontractors have already laid people off due to this.

 

The total job losses could be massive.

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Homme

Been told today another major name “is going the same way as Carillion”

 

It surprised me because I’ve only good things to say about this contractor but you never know what’s going on behind the scenes.

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Gambo
2 hours ago, Homme said:

Been told today another major name “is going the same way as Carillion”

 

It surprised me because I’ve only good things to say about this contractor but you never know what’s going on behind the scenes.

Begin with an I?

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Victorian
45 minutes ago, Gambo said:

Begin with an I?

Yes.  That's the one I heard today.

 

 

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AlphonseCapone
3 hours ago, Homme said:

Been told today another major name “is going the same way as Carillion”

 

It surprised me because I’ve only good things to say about this contractor but you never know what’s going on behind the scenes.

 

1 hour ago, Gambo said:

Begin with an I?

 

16 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Yes.  That's the one I heard today.

 

 

 

Ffs ITK has spread to the shed :laugh:

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Victorian

Haha!    Right enough.

 

:vrface:

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Homme
1 hour ago, Gambo said:

Begin with an I?

 

BB. 

 

Just what I was told, I’ve no info myself. Got a meeting next Thursday which has been changed from a usual mundane progress meeting to a commercial one with some regional bigwigs from them.

 

The more I think about it, it’s probably just off the back of all this Carillion stuff.

 

 

Edited by Homme

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The Continental Op

not on twitter so this is a second hand link

 

 

 

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Mikey1874

Another big one private company doing work for public sector has gone into administration. 

 

Interserve. 

 

Prepack administration pending. 

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Jambo-Jimbo
Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Another big one private company doing work for public sector has gone into administration. 

 

Interserve. 

 

Prepack administration pending. 

 

Surprised they lasted this long tbh, been serious doubts about them for some time, indeed over a year ago on this very thread their demise was being speculated about.

 

As usual it's dreadful news for the employees.

Edited by Jambo-Jimbo

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