redjambo Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 2 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said: Is that a joke? If it's not then have a word with yourself. He is fat. Fact! No-one is suggesting he did what he's alleged to have done because he was fat. But he is fat. He's also a repellant slug! No, it wasn't a joke. His size had nothing to do with his abuse. I would have equally pointed it out if the poster in question had used "American", "Jewish", "New Yorker", "white", "tall" or any other adjective that had nothing to do with his actions as an abuser. By using "fat", the poster inadvertently equated his size with the other adjectives "evil" and "disgusting". This is how casual discrimination works in society. We should have a go at people because of their actions and deeds, nothing else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Burgundy Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Adjectives should be banned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Just now, Ron Burgundy said: Adjectives should be banned. Thanks for your positive, well-thought out and complex contribution to the debate. Weinstein is fat - there's no argument about that. The problem is when folk use attributes in an unnecessarily pejorative manner. In the context here, fat was used in a pejorative way, thus equating size with something bad (and that is a form of discrimination that is rife in society). It's no biggie (pardon the pun), but I just thought I should point it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 23 minutes ago, redjambo said: By using "fat", the poster inadvertently equated his size with the other adjectives "evil" and "disgusting". This is how casual discrimination works in society. We should have a go at people because of their actions and deeds, nothing else. Nope. You chose to see it that way. No-one has equated size with evil apart from you. That says a lot about you and your mindset tbh. The fact that you chose to see it like that instead of taking the words at face value screams volumes about you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 3 minutes ago, cosanostra said: Nope. You chose to see it that way. No-one has equated size with evil apart from you. That says a lot about you and your mindset tbh. The fact that you chose to see it like that instead of taking the words at face value screams volumes about you. Your exact words were "evil, fat, disgusting creature". Are you honestly arguing that the "fat" in the middle of that isn't being used in a pejorative way. Really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 3 minutes ago, redjambo said: Your exact words were "evil, fat, disgusting creature". Are you honestly arguing that the "fat" in the middle of that isn't being used in a pejorative way. Really? It was used to describe his physique. Disgusting was used to describe his preying on women. Creature was just an insult aimed at showing his lack of basic humanity. Do these terms actually require an explanation? As I said, I brought up his physical appearance to contrast him with the types of female that he took advantage of and molested. There's no need to read any more deeply into it than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 9 minutes ago, cosanostra said: It was used to describe his physique. Disgusting was used to describe his preying on women. Creature was just an insult aimed at showing his lack of basic humanity. Do these terms actually require an explanation? As I said, I brought up his physical appearance to contrast him with the types of female that he took advantage of and molested. There's no need to read any more deeply into it than that. you implying that women don't find fat guys attractive? BMI fascist! There is of course a direct relationship between a mans wealth/power and the attractiveness of his partner ( either male or female) However generalisations now are conflated to prejudices , so you have to be very careful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 10 minutes ago, doctor jambo said: you implying that women don't find fat guys attractive? BMI fascist! There is of course a direct relationship between a mans wealth/power and the attractiveness of his partner ( either male or female) However generalisations now are conflated to prejudices , so you have to be very careful Not girls like those he targeted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlimOzturk Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 I haven't been following this story but seen this morning that Michael Winner has been accused by three women of demanding to see and touch their breasts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 If I went for job interview and an old dude was the only interviewer, and part way through the process asked it see my penis, or give him a massage, even if I really wanted the job- like incredibly badly- I'd leave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 11 minutes ago, doctor jambo said: If I went for job interview and an old dude was the only interviewer, and part way through the process asked it see my penis, or give him a massage, even if I really wanted the job- like incredibly badly- I'd leave How about if the job paid a few million £ a year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 24 minutes ago, cosanostra said: How about if the job paid a few million £ a year? Nope- mainly because I'm not a prostitute. Same basic reasoning that I would not stand in a corridor whilst an old guy jerked off in front of me ( another accusation) Is Hollywood really that degraded that actors merely ignore this kind of behaviour in case they don't get a job? HOw long would you last in your job if you did that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Just to clarify- I totally understand the non reporting of rape and sexual assault, but there must be hundreds of actors who seem to think this is "normal" to get a job. If that is the case then WTAF- the place needs shut down until this is sorted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 7 minutes ago, doctor jambo said: Nope- mainly because I'm not a prostitute. Same basic reasoning that I would not stand in a corridor whilst an old guy jerked off in front of me ( another accusation) Is Hollywood really that degraded that actors merely ignore this kind of behaviour in case they don't get a job? HOw long would you last in your job if you did that? Unsure if I'm being honest. A lot of people would put up with sexual abuse for vast sums of money I'd imagine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SE16 3LN Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 49 minutes ago, doctor jambo said: If I went for job interview and an old dude was the only interviewer, and part way through the process asked it see my penis, or give him a massage, even if I really wanted the job- like incredibly badly- I'd leave What if it was a young dude? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 10 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said: What if it was a young dude? If I would have had sex with them anyway, without the offer of a job- then sure- why not but that's not what the "exchange " is here the exchange is basically having sex with someone for money- or allowing someone to do something with/to you for money or advancement that you would not normally have done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SE16 3LN Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 9 minutes ago, doctor jambo said: If I would have had sex with them anyway, without the offer of a job- then sure- why not but that's not what the "exchange " is here the exchange is basically having sex with someone for money- or allowing someone to do something with/to you for money or advancement that you would not normally have done I know, I agree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 15 hours ago, redm said: This version of victim blaming (or ‘reallocation’ of a portion of the blame) also completely ignores the power dynamic of these situations. It’s also a pretty strange reaction to behaviour of this sort. It’s only a step or two away from “she was probably asking for it” or “come on, is sexual assault really THAT bad?” Who is victim blaming? If you think someone is, you should challenge them, especially as on JKB the "power dynamic" is kind of in your favour. Certainly what I have posted (or indeed anyone else has posted on this thread) isn't a step or two away from what you are accusing someone or other of ... it is a million miles away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 2 hours ago, cosanostra said: How about if the job paid a few million £ a year? Not only that, but going back to the specific case of Hollywood, it is very much a "who you know" environment. There are certain movers and shakers, and to get on the right side of of them is to offer a greater guarantee of success in the the business. On the other hand, if you piss one of them off, you can find yourself effectively blackballed. The pressures are tremendous, and all aspiring actors and actresses know that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 4 hours ago, redjambo said: No, it wasn't a joke. His size had nothing to do with his abuse. I would have equally pointed it out if the poster in question had used "American", "Jewish", "New Yorker", "white", "tall" or any other adjective that had nothing to do with his actions as an abuser. By using "fat", the poster inadvertently equated his size with the other adjectives "evil" and "disgusting". This is how casual discrimination works in society. We should have a go at people because of their actions and deeds, nothing else. Jeez you must be a laugh a minute in the battle cruiser!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Just now, Seymour M Hersh said: Jeez you must be a laugh a minute in the battle cruiser!! I have my moments. This obviously wasn't one of them though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 (edited) It seems Matt Damon and Ben Affleck knew about him. What’s their excuse? Well other than him apparently treating Paltrow ‘tremendously respectful always.’ (Not as bad a comment as Ewan McGregor’s about how nice a man Roman Polanski is). http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/matt-damon-admits-he-knew-harvey-weinstein-sexually-harassed-gwyneth-paltrow_us_59ede74ce4b0958c46833820 Edited October 24, 2017 by Paolo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AWM Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 Harvey Weinstein: Natassia Malthe accuses producer of rape Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homme Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 Alice Glass, formally of Crystal Castles came out and accused her ex bandmate of years of systematic abuse during her time in CC. Says she was inspired by these recent events. Sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paolo Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 http://news.sky.com/story/former-teen-star-corey-feldmans-plan-to-reveal-hollywood-paedophile-ring-11099025 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watt-Zeefuik Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 Amazing how much is coming out in the wake of this. Leon Wieseltier and Mark Halperin, big names in centrist/liberal publishing and Beltway political journalism respectively, have now gotten tossed because of a raft of accusations coming forward. Even talk now about GHW Bush, now confined to a wheelchair, copping feels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 When are the police going to arrest this guy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 33 minutes ago, cosanostra said: When are the police going to arrest this guy? When they have proper evidence possibly. I think this is the whole problem with this situation. All they've got is the testimony (some of it 20 years old or more) of women saying they've been raped/assaulted/groped or whatever by the slug. As far as I can see (and I'm no legal expert) all they'll have is a series of she said/he said situations without any credible evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 Just now, Seymour M Hersh said: When they have proper evidence possibly. I think this is the whole problem with this situation. All they've got is the testimony (some of it 20 years old or more) of women saying they've been raped/assaulted/groped or whatever by the slug. As far as I can see (and I'm no legal expert) all they'll have is a series of she said/he said situations without any credible evidence. They're probably taking statements, talking to witnesses and building a case. They just need to bide their time and get this guy where he belongs which is behind bars for a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas-voss Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 15 hours ago, Paolo said: http://news.sky.com/story/former-teen-star-corey-feldmans-plan-to-reveal-hollywood-paedophile-ring-11099025 Feldman's has been telling people for years what's been going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 1 minute ago, vegas-voss said: Feldman's has been telling people for years what's been going on. It's hard to know how much he has to say or if he's an attention seeker suffering from some manner of mental illness. The fact that he's asking for money to write, direct and star in a documentary is really going to make people question his motives. If he has information, he could just go to the police or even the New York Times. This makes it look all about him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 2 hours ago, cosanostra said: It's hard to know how much he has to say or if he's an attention seeker suffering from some manner of mental illness. The fact that he's asking for money to write, direct and star in a documentary is really going to make people question his motives. If he has information, he could just go to the police or even the New York Times. This makes it look all about him. The difficulty Cosa, is that many victims of Childhood abuse end up with Personality Disorders- especially Emotionally Unstable Borderline . This makes them hard to believe ( to some people)- they self harm, attention seek, and are generally difficult- however they are telling the truth. It is the very fact that they are like they are that makes them more plausible They are severely damaged Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 7 minutes ago, doctor jambo said: The difficulty Cosa, is that many victims of Childhood abuse end up with Personality Disorders- especially Emotionally Unstable Borderline . This makes them hard to believe ( to some people)- they self harm, attention seek, and are generally difficult- however they are telling the truth. It is the very fact that they are like they are that makes them more plausible They are severely damaged Completely understand and agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 FWIW I absolutely believe Feldman. I have seen him interviewed on several occasions now and he, even when not discussing his "issues" very much comes across as a childhood trauma survivor. It marks you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William H. Bonney Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 45 minutes ago, doctor jambo said: FWIW I absolutely believe Feldman. I have seen him interviewed on several occasions now and he, even when not discussing his "issues" very much comes across as a childhood trauma survivor. It marks you I think Corey Haim suffered far worse. Feldman was very protective of Haim and wanted to expose people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 5 hours ago, cosanostra said: They're probably taking statements, talking to witnesses and building a case. They just need to bide their time and get this guy where he belongs which is behind bars for a long time. Unless he confesses I just think it'll be difficult to come up with hard evidence after so many years. And witness accounts tend to be the least accurate evidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I P Knightley Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 On 10/24/2017 at 15:06, doctor jambo said: Nope- mainly because I'm not a prostitute. Same basic reasoning that I would not stand in a corridor whilst an old guy jerked off in front of me ( another accusation) Is Hollywood really that degraded that actors merely ignore this kind of behaviour in case they don't get a job? HOw long would you last in your job if you did that? I'd like to think I would do the same. But Doc, you're an intelligent person with career options. You know that walking away does not close all doors to you. The folks upon whom Weinstein preyed are not in that same boat (plus the fact that he's more powerful in his industry than anyone I've ever come near in mine - not sure there is anyone that powerful in many industries, in fact.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I P Knightley Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 10 hours ago, Ugly American said: Even talk now about GHW Bush, now confined to a wheelchair, copping feels. 3 separate cases so far; all the same MO - copping a feel when they stand beside his wheelchair for a photo. 93 years old and wheelchair bound, FFS!!. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 Just now, I P Knightley said: 3 separate cases so far; all the same MO - copping a feel when they stand beside his wheelchair for a photo. 93 years old and wheelchair bound, FFS!!. The genie is out the bottle now. A very prominent British theatre director has just been dismissed from the theatre company he founded for his behaviour towards women. The excuse was that since he had a couple of strokes (the medical kind) they had damaged the part of the brain that controls what is appropriate to say or not. A bit like the type of dementia that David Baddiel made a documentary about his father on (Pecks?). Now it appears he has been behaving this way for a number of years, in fact many years before he even had a stroke. Expect a lot more of these cases, the theatre business in general has always had a very open way of people behaving towards each other and a rude sense of humour from both sexes. Now there is a generation that gets very easily offended about things, couple that with older workers who will unwittingly continue to practice the old sense of humour and there will be lots of complaints. Also despite the complaints about gender inequality woman now have more senior roles in theatres than men. We've just been told that there will be a new code of practice put in place in the theatre I work in about sexism. Despite there already being a long section about it in the staff handbook. I'm shitting myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 34 minutes ago, I P Knightley said: I'd like to think I would do the same. But Doc, you're an intelligent person with career options. You know that walking away does not close all doors to you. The folks upon whom Weinstein preyed are not in that same boat (plus the fact that he's more powerful in his industry than anyone I've ever come near in mine - not sure there is anyone that powerful in many industries, in fact.) There is ALWAYS an option not to be wanked on by a big hairy bloke for career advancement . Go work in an industry where that would not appear to be an accepted part of job applications. Its a self respect thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zico Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 3 hours ago, Jefferson Davis Hogg said: I think Corey Haim suffered far worse. Feldman was very protective of Haim and wanted to expose people. I think Feldman’s often said in the past that, while he was abused, Haim’s abuse was much worse. The doc makes a good point about personality disorders that abused people develop. Feldman and Rose McGowan seem fairly unhinged but it’s not really that surprising after what they’re alleged to have suffered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 2 hours ago, Zico said: I think Feldman’s often said in the past that, while he was abused, Haim’s abuse was much worse. The doc makes a good point about personality disorders that abused people develop. Feldman and Rose McGowan seem fairly unhinged but it’s not really that surprising after what they’re alleged to have suffered. I think Rose McGowan sounds very sober and sensible when she talks. She's very credible, intelligent and articulate. I don't think she seems unhinged really at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 35 minutes ago, cosanostra said: I think Rose McGowan sounds very sober and sensible when she talks. She's very credible, intelligent and articulate. I don't think she seems unhinged really at all. Quite probably but she is horribly lacking corroboration in any way shape or form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Watt-Zeefuik Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said: Quite probably but she is horribly lacking corroboration in any way shape or form. Lack of corroboration on an event that occurred with only two people in the room, and remarkably similar to the accusations of dozens of other women? Well, yes, I suppose she does lack it. On the GHWB accusations, I'm a little sympathetic to the dementia angle. I don't do as much since we moved to Richmond, but I was a deacon at my old church and part of our responsibility was visiting older members who could no longer make it to worship. There were a couple that I was advised to not bring the spouse (then my girlfriend) along for the visit as a couple of them, known to be perfect gentlemen in their younger days, had no filter and would either speak or act horribly inappropriately in the presence of an attractive young woman. Now it's possible they were all predators at a younger age and were protected by the kind of code of silence and power that surrounded Weinstein, but I don't think so. I think there are certain forms of dementia that knock out the filter on that kind of person. At the very least, though, let it be known about him and warn young women about standing next to him at photo ops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 6 hours ago, doctor jambo said: There is ALWAYS an option not to be wanked on by a big hairy bloke for career advancement . Go work in an industry where that would not appear to be an accepted part of job applications. Its a self respect thing You honestly think these women wanted to stay? Have you read or listened to any of their statements about what happened to them? Choice doesn’t play a large part in it, but shock and fear very much do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zico Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 6 hours ago, cosanostra said: I think Rose McGowan sounds very sober and sensible when she talks. She's very credible, intelligent and articulate. I don't think she seems unhinged really at all. I’m not just talking about recent comments - I think she’s always seemed damaged. Recent events give that some credence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted October 27, 2017 Share Posted October 27, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, redm said: You honestly think these women wanted to stay? Have you read or listened to any of their statements about what happened to them? Choice doesn’t play a large part in it, but shock and fear very much Edited October 27, 2017 by Francis Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpie Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Weinstein has his lawyers approach his company to have all records of his e mails and phone calls returned to him so that he can use them in his defence. Either a bluff or he has good reason to believe that within them are contacts he has made with some of his accusers which he may believe that their contacts were consensual. I guess when you have enough money you can pay whatever it takes to either buy off accusers or dig up enough to show they are of less than moral character. The mistake most of us make is we think we are all part of the same universe, but the unfortunate fact is we are not, and never having lived their life and had their finances we just do not think, act, or disrespect as they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted October 29, 2017 Share Posted October 29, 2017 This is a horrifying read, but a worthwhile one. https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/weighing-the-costs-of-speaking-out-about-harvey-weinstein Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted October 30, 2017 Share Posted October 30, 2017 Damn that's grim. The reaction of the Italian press is just incredible. The recording of him harassing the Italian girl is hard to take as well. This guy belongs in jail because he's never not going to be a threat to females. Everyone should hear that and they'll be in no doubt exactly what this guy is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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