redm Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niblick1874 Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Catalans are for the EU Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanks Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Celtic will be holding a candlelit vigil if this keeps up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 See all the riot police beating up on unarmed citizens and firing rubber bullets at them? What laws exactly are the unarmed citizens breaking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niblick1874 Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 As has been said, this is making no sense. None whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tian447 Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 See all the riot police beating up on unarmed citizens and firing rubber bullets at them? What laws exactly are the unarmed citizens breaking? They'll come up with something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sten Guns Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Not sure why anyone is surprised that illegal activity is being stopped by the Spanish Government. All this chat about just letting them get on with it, then ignoring the result, it?s absurd beyond belief. Romantic, fanciful nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DETTY29 Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Kris Commons twitter feed is a hoot. Asks why no fans at the Barca game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf's Mate Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Not sure why anyone is surprised that illegal activity is being stopped by the Spanish Government. All this chat about just letting them get on with it, then ignoring the result, it?s absurd beyond belief. Romantic, fanciful nonsense. You won't hear any arguments from me however there's now footage of the police battering an old woman with batons. I appreciate they've got a job to do however the footage I'm seeing is of them taking severe liberties against civilians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sten Guns Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 You won't hear any arguments from me however there's now footage of the police battering an old woman with batons. I appreciate they've got a job to do however the footage I'm seeing is of them taking severe liberties against civilians. Absolutely. However the amount of people on here actually expecting a threat to the rule of law to be ignored is outrageous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Not sure why anyone is surprised that illegal activity is being stopped by the Spanish Government. All this chat about just letting them get on with it, then ignoring the result, it?s absurd beyond belief. Romantic, fanciful nonsense. What is illegal about their actions? The people who are being beaten that is...not the referendum itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sten Guns Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 What is illegal about their actions? Serious question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Serious question? Sorry I just edited. Yes genuine question. I get that the referendum would not be legally acknowledged or upheld but I can't see anyone doing anything that could be considered illegal in those videos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 What is likely to cause more long term harm to the unity of Spain?Ignoring the result of a peacefully held but unconstitutional referendum? OR Unleashing federal riot cops to batter the shite out of civilians, firemen and regional police? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sten Guns Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Sorry I just edited. Yes genuine question. I get that the referendum would not be legally acknowledged or upheld but I can't see anyone doing anything that could be considered illegal in those videos. Come on man. It?s not rocket science. No need to play dumb. The vote has been deemed illegal, unconstitutional and undemocratic. The act of trying to shut this down, leads to protests / clashes, which leads to arrests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Come on man. It?s not rocket science. No need to play dumb. The vote has been deemed illegal, unconstitutional and undemocratic. The act of trying to shut this down, leads to protests / clashes, which leads to arrests. I'm not playing dumb. I'm not suggesting any vote should or would be upheld, recognised or even acknowledged. Simply that nobody appears to be doing anything illegal in these videos and in turn doesn't warrant the police activity we are seeing. I'm not even sure illegal is the correct word for the vote. I'm not sure there is any law that prohibits it, just none that allows it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sten Guns Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 What is likely to cause more long term harm to the unity of Spain? Ignoring the result of a peacefully held but unconstitutional referendum? OR Unleashing federal riot cops to batter the shite out of civilians, firemen and regional police? Long term? 100% the first one. Without a shadow of a doubt. But you?re too baws deep in your regressive and delusional Uber left wing romance you can?t see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Long term? 100% the first one. Without a shadow of a doubt. But you?re too baws deep in your regressive and delusional Uber left wing romance you can?t see it. Spoken like a true fascist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sten Guns Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Spoken like a true fascist. That old one. Amazing. Not a Nazi though? You disappoint me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocco_Jambo Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 I'm not playing dumb. I'm not suggesting any vote should or would be upheld, recognised or even acknowledged. Simply that nobody appears to be doing anything illegal in these videos and in turn doesn't warrant the police activity we are seeing. I'm not even sure illegal is the correct word for the vote. I'm not sure there is any law that prohibits it, just none that allows it. Not allowed by law is pretty much the definition of illegal so it's exactly the right word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 See all the riot police beating up on unarmed citizens and firing rubber bullets at them? What laws exactly are the unarmed citizens breaking? Anyone got an answer to this? Are there reports of arrests today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Come on man. It?s not rocket science. No need to play dumb. The vote has been deemed illegal, unconstitutional and undemocratic. The act of trying to shut this down, leads to protests / clashes, which leads to arrests. Illegal and unconstitutional yes, but having it so makes it 100% undemocratic. The laws in this instance are a ***** and people are right to challenge ******* laws. You must be some sort of Cruella de Ville cartoon villain to disagree with that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Not allowed by law is pretty much the definition of illegal so it's exactly the right word. What laws are the unarmed civilians breaking by marking pieces of paper with pencils? How many people have been arrested and charged for marking these pieces of paper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocco_Jambo Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 What laws are the unarmed civilians breaking by marking pieces of paper with pencils? How many people have been arrested and charged for marking these pieces of paper? What has this got to do with the definition of illegal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OTT Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 This is a ****ing mess. The Spanish government have handled this very poorly and sending in the stormtroopers to beat up anyone who tries to vote appears very Hitleresque. As to my own views its kinda hard to reconcile them. I think Catalonia leaving Spain would be damaging to both sides and create a lot of bad feeling between the two which may not ever go away. However, if the people of Catalonia feel that Spain as a country is failing them so considerably then they should have a right to address that. Folk saying that it is illegal I find hard to agree with. Like, of course its illegal - why would Spain want to make it easy or for there to even be a process for regions to leave? It also means that it holds the regions hostage if the people within those regions do not want to remain a part of Spain. If a region wants to become independent then there needs to be an avenue to allow it that supersedes an individual countries law (i.e an EU or UN law/process of arbitration to allow it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 That old one. Amazing. Not a Nazi though? You disappoint me. Sorry Franco, I'll try harder next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 ****ing hell, this is going to have deep and lasting consequences. The police are literally battering people in the street and they won't be able to row back from that. Country will be left badly divided Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taffin Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Not allowed by law is pretty much the definition of illegal so it's exactly the right word. Apologies. I mean 'not allowed' as in there is no specific allowance drafted for it rather than 'not allowed' as in forbidden. I.e. there is no law that specifically says I can do star jumps on the village green but there isn't anything prohibiting it. I'm probably just confusing illegal and unlawful. Again. Ignore me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Cockade Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 it's not that long since Spain was a Fascist State Looks like some in power over there think it still is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Anyone got an answer to this? Are there reports of arrests today? I'm not sure what these people did but the police officer clearly felt it was worth glancing round and firing anyway. https://twitter.com/sbrianlowe/status/914446613548081152 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTBCAL Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Massive own goal by the Spanish gov in the handling of this today. Will do nothing but unite the Catalans even more so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Shetland goes and takes the oilWon?t happen like that. Shetland would be allowed something like a 12km ring around their shores the rest would be Scotland?s. There is very few rigs within that. If I can remember the site that explained it I?ll post it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanks Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Folk protesting in the streets of Edinburgh about this Cringe level 1000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niblick1874 Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 This is all beginning to look contrived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sten Guns Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Folk protesting in the streets of Edinburgh about this Cringe level 1000 Naaaah. Seriously? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowmans_Boot Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 I wasnt well enough read on this to hold a strong opinion either way. Following the events of today, I am now all for Catalan independence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanks Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Naaaah. Seriously? https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.scotsman.com/news/politics/hundreds-show-support-for-catalonia-at-edinburgh-protest-1-4575092/amp Oh yes indeed . Must be 100 other things we could be focusing on in this city. Naaah let's have a protest about a vote in Spain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Massive own goal by the Spanish gov in the handling of this today. Will do nothing but unite the Catalans even more so. The Catalans are far from united. The majority oppose independence. The Catalan government has promised to declare independence within 48 hours if there is a majority in favour of independence in this referendum, whatever the turn out. That is insurrection, which any nation state would oppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homme Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Whatever the support was for independence, it will be larger tomorrow. Throw in far more support from outside Spain too. Not that it really matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niblick1874 Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 The Catalans are far from united. The majority oppose independence. The Catalan government has promised to declare independence within 48 hours if there is a majority in favour of independence in this referendum, whatever the turn out. That is insurrection, which any nation state would oppose. The plot thickens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XB52 Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Folk protesting in the streets of Edinburgh about this Cringe level 1000 I know, imagine caring about other people, crazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 The Catalans are far from united. The majority oppose independence. The Catalan government has promised to declare independence within 48 hours if there is a majority in favour of independence in this referendum, whatever the turn out. That is insurrection, which any nation state would oppose. No one's expecting the nation state of Spain to be keen on potential rejection, but the populace shouldn't be getting their heads rattled for having the nerve to discuss the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 No one's expecting the nation state of Spain to be keen on potential rejection, but the populace shouldn't be getting their heads rattled for having the nerve to discuss the situation. But they aren't just "discussing the situation". They are participating in a "referendum" with the promise of a unilateral declaration of independence if they get a vote in favour, however many Catalans participate in that vote. I agree Spain has handled it badly - they should have permitted an official referendum, where the nationalists would almost certainly have lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 As more of the videos appear the more brutal it becomes. Hammering the living shit out of your citizens who have their hands up is morally reprehensible. Regardless of whether the vote is legal or not. Disgusting behaviour. Sent from my SM-G800F using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niblick1874 Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 I know, imagine caring about other people, crazy That should always be the way, as long as it's not a knee jerk reaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 That should always be the way, as long as it's not a knee jerk reaction. So do you care about these people who are being subjected to this brutality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodger Mellie Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 As more of the videos appear the more brutal it becomes. Hammering the living shit out of your citizens who have their hands up is morally reprehensible. Regardless of whether the vote is legal or not. Disgusting behaviour. Sent from my SM-G800F using Tapatalk It is absolutely disgusting behavior by the police. The silence from leaders of countries within the EU is deafening. No condemnation of the police violence from May, Merkel, Macron?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 The Catalans are far from united. The majority oppose independence. The Catalan government has promised to declare independence within 48 hours if there is a majority in favour of independence in this referendum, whatever the turn out. That is insurrection, which any nation state would oppose. Wrong. See the poll link I posted earlier - the results of the polls reveal a much less clear picture, with support vacillating between the two positions. Certainly not as you portray it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamboross Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.scotsman.com/news/politics/hundreds-show-support-for-catalonia-at-edinburgh-protest-1-4575092/amp Oh yes indeed . Must be 100 other things we could be focusing on in this city. Naaah let's have a protest about a vote in Spain. No doubt there will be some Scots there but there are around 30,000 Spaniards living in and around Edinburgh, I daresay the majority at this were Catalans or sympathisers from other Spanish regions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 But they aren't just "discussing the situation". They are participating in a "referendum" with the promise of a unilateral declaration of independence if they get a vote in favour, however many Catalans participate in that vote. I agree Spain has handled it badly - they should have permitted an official referendum, where the nationalists would almost certainly have lost. I suppose it depends how you define it, I'd say a referendum is definitely part of the political discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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