Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[Governor Tarkin]

35 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Soobrie,  Soobarie.

 

 

To be honest, I don't think I'd ever heard of her until this morning's news.

 

15 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Mogg and the hard Remainers

 

A more difficult mistake to make, surely.

 

17 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

For all the incompetence May and the Government have shown the May deal seems to me a not unreasonable "neither wholly in or wholly out" compromise, especially if you believe in the EU's good faith (as surely most Remainers must) in implementing the terms of the "political declaration" on the future relationship between the UK and the EU.

 

I could be persuaded to agree with this.

[Francis Albert]

15 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

 

To be honest, I don't think I'd ever heard of her until this morning's news.

 

 

A more difficult mistake to make, surely.

 

 

I could be persuaded to agree with this.

Oops. 

[Mikey1874]

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

13 hours ago, Geoff the Mince said:

Agreed ; bunch of ****in cowards abusing and harassing her .

 

The lowlife thick wanks should be ashamed .

Not keen on her either but she doesnt deserve that. They are viscious scum

[Seymour M Hersh]

9 hours ago, Geoff the Mince said:

The guys who have been abusing Anna Soubray are Tommy Robinson fanboys . If they carry on the way they are it will lead to violence . Bunch of cowards ! 

 

I'm sure you were this vocal after the hard left abuse of JRM in front of his kid.

[jake]

3 hours ago, Cade said:

 

 

The EU 27 must be loving watching this.

Meanwhile in Europe.

All is bliss

[Mikey1874]

1 minute ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

I'm sure you were this vocal after the hard left abuse of JRM in front of his kid.

 

Here's that incident 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

The way things are going it wouldn't surprise me if there was another murder.  Sadly then maybe the politicians will then let the public decide a change via a second referendum on the " deal" she has negotiated or to just remain ?  I just wonder what the turnout would be on a second vote ? and of-course the result? Im guessing that there would be a majority of over 60%  to stay.  Yes Im opposed to never endums but I can only see this is the best way out.  Those who are hard remainers and those who are hard leavers will still vote the same way but those who were undecided and feel they didn't have accurate information during the Ref campaign can make a more informed choice.  

[Geoff the Mince]

16 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

I'm sure you were this vocal after the hard left abuse of JRM in front of his kid.

I probably wasn't ,   but men threatening a woman in her 60s on several occasions is pathetic .

Also saying she deserves to be raped .

 

 

[Francis Albert]

13 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

The way things are going it wouldn't surprise me if there was another murder.  Sadly then maybe the politicians will then let the public decide a change via a second referendum on the " deal" she has negotiated or to just remain ?  I just wonder what the turnout would be on a second vote ? and of-course the result? Im guessing that there would be a majority of over 60%  to stay.  Yes Im opposed to never endums but I can only see this is the best way out.  Those who are hard remainers and those who are hard leavers will still vote the same way but those who were undecided and feel they didn't have accurate information during the Ref campaign can make a more informed choice.  

The relationship between the UK and the EU after the transition period hasn't yet been negotiated so I am not clear how the choice would be much more informed.

[The Mighty Thor]

MPs vote through the amendment to the finance bill making it harder for the government to sneak through no deal preparations without putting past parliament. 

 

Excellent. 

 

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

15 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

The way things are going it wouldn't surprise me if there was another murder.  Sadly then maybe the politicians will then let the public decide a change via a second referendum on the " deal" she has negotiated or to just remain ?  I just wonder what the turnout would be on a second vote ? and of-course the result? Im guessing that there would be a majority of over 60%  to stay.  Yes Im opposed to never endums but I can only see this is the best way out.  Those who are hard remainers and those who are hard leavers will still vote the same way but those who were undecided and feel they didn't have accurate information during the Ref campaign can make a more informed choice.  

 

I think a second referendum would divide the country even more than it is at present, no matter what the result may be, because even if leave won again, many people would believe that the political elite have forced a second vote upon the country in a bid to overturn the original result and therefore don't represent the views of the majority of those who voted, democracy imo would be the ultimate loser in the event of a second vote.

 

I think you may also be being a tad bit optimistic in thinking that remain could get 60% in a second referendum, as the latest poll I seen (and I don't hold much faith in polls tbh) was remain at 53% max, and add in the usual + - tolarance and you could very well be looking at a result which could be even closer than the last referendum, and if that were the case things could well become much more polarized, violent and vicious than they are just now.

I sincerely hope that I'm wrong but I really do fear the impact a second vote would have on the country.

 

 

[Don Dan]

So any deal is better than a No deal even if it’s a bad deal. Great negotiating strategy we’ve been forced to adopted now. 

[Cade]

Kate Hoey should stop pretending to be a Labour MP and just cross the fecking floor.

 

She's an embarrassment.

[Mikey1874]

38 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

MPs vote through the amendment to the finance bill making it harder for the government to sneak through no deal preparations without putting past parliament. 

 

Excellent. 

 

 

[Don Dan]

So if things go tits up when we leave with a no deal who do we blame? Those who are preventing preparations for such an event? 

[The Mighty Thor]

36 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

So if things go tits up when we leave with a no deal who do we blame? Those who are preventing preparations for such an event? 

Possibly. Mind you starting preparations 80 days before we exit is cutting it a bit fine.

On the bright side, the Dover emergency plan looked like it ran like clockwork yesterday with 80 lorries and a council bin motor. 

[The Mighty Thor]

In other news both Ramsgate and Ostend say that neither port will be operational by 29/3.

 

Great news for Seaborne. No ships. No port. No clue. 

[Don Dan]

26 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Possibly. Mind you starting preparations 80 days before we exit is cutting it a bit fine.

On the bright side, the Dover emergency plan looked like it ran like clockwork yesterday with 80 lorries and a council bin motor. 

 

A trucks a truck. The sad fact that’s missed by the 303 is that the EU are preparing for a No deal. Yet these (we) fools are trying to prevent it. No matter what side of this mess you on or support, we need to prepare for all eventualities and one being a No deal. The EU could dig their heals in and say that’s the deal which they have already and not budge along come the 29th and we are out. What then when we’ve prevented any preparations for such an outcome? 

On a personal level I and my wife wanted to spend months in Tenerife starting February as we will both be retired by then. Instead we have booked only 6 weeks returning on the 27th March. Basically because I couldn’t guarantee the outcome and what would happen on the 29th. I’ve taken steps and made plans to cover any outcome of an unknown we as a country should be doing the same. It’s folly not too!! On another note once this is sorted we’ll be heading back again under whatever riles are in force after that date. 

Edited January 8, 2019 by Dannie Boy
Correction

[Don Dan]

20 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

In other news both Ramsgate and Ostend say that neither port will be operational by 29/3.

 

Great news for Seaborne. No ships. No port. No clue. 

 

 

D Day landing craft, we still have them don’t we? 

[Victorian]

1 hour ago, Cade said:

Kate Hoey should stop pretending to be a Labour MP and just cross the fecking floor.

 

She's an embarrassment.

 

Not for too long.     She's a certainty to be booted out at the next election.     Her Brexit actions are totally at odds with her constituents and her local party.

[Victorian]

48 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

In other news both Ramsgate and Ostend say that neither port will be operational by 29/3.

 

Great news for Seaborne. No ships. No port. No clue. 

 

And run by the maritime Craig Whyte.

[Victorian]

Hoey's on Newsnight.

 

[DETTY29]

1 hour ago, Dannie Boy said:

So if things go tits up when we leave with a no deal who do we blame? Those who are preventing preparations for such an event? 

Every MP who voted to invoke Article 50 miles before we had a *** clue what we were trying to negotiate.

[CJGJ]

2 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

I think a second referendum would divide the country even more than it is at present, no matter what the result may be, because even if leave won again, many people would believe that the political elite have forced a second vote upon the country in a bid to overturn the original result and therefore don't represent the views of the majority of those who voted, democracy imo would be the ultimate loser in the event of a second vote.

 

I think you may also be being a tad bit optimistic in thinking that remain could get 60% in a second referendum, as the latest poll I seen (and I don't hold much faith in polls tbh) was remain at 53% max, and add in the usual + - tolarance and you could very well be looking at a result which could be even closer than the last referendum, and if that were the case things could well become much more polarized, violent and vicious than they are just now.

I sincerely hope that I'm wrong but I really do fear the impact a second vote would have on the country.

 

 

I hope we have a vote and crush those voted for Brexit

 

Who cares how they feel after the mess they have made of leaving.

 

If they want to, let them all move abroad if they can find anyone who will take them

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

I hope we have a vote and crush those voted for Brexit

 

Who cares how they feel after the mess they have made of leaving.

 

If they want to, let them all move abroad if they can find anyone who will take them

Exactly my sentiments. 

[Ulysses]

12 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

I honestly don't know!

 

 

For the avoidance of doubt, an MP was murdered by the far right.

 

In that context, I'd suggest that knowing where you draw the line is a good thing, and not knowing where you draw the line is not a good thing.

 

Blaming politicians for having "invited trouble"?  Suggesting that Remain supporters are equally to blame as hardline right-wingers and murderers?  Why am I reminded of the Provos and their apologist supporters who used to talk about "legitimate targets"?

[Ulysses]

31 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

I hope we have a vote and crush those voted for Brexit

 

Except that you won't crush those who voted for Brexit.  If you had a re-run you might score a narrow win, but at what cost?  And if the result went the same way as last time?

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Except that you won't crush those who voted for Brexit.  If you had a re-run you might score a narrow win, but at what cost?  And if the result went the same way as last time?

I think clarity about exactly what we would be voting for would help.  Leaving the CU ,SM , Immigration control,   ending of  freedom of movement etc should all be made clear to the voter if there is another referendum. I honestly do not think it was clear the last time about the consequences of leaving. Im not saying that some of those who voted to leave were stupid,  they just didn't think it all through properly, however lets be completely honest here and  acknowledge that Immigration was a massive sway for those wanted Brexit .  There is no argument about that. it was ruthlessly exploited by Farage and his ilk. 

[Ulysses]

24 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

I think clarity about exactly what we would be voting for would help.  Leaving the CU ,SM , Immigration control,   ending of  freedom of movement etc should all be made clear to the voter if there is another referendum. I honestly do not think it was clear the last time about the consequences of leaving. Im not saying that some of those who voted to leave were stupid,  they just didn't think it all through properly, however lets be completely honest here and  acknowledge that Immigration was a massive sway for those wanted Brexit .  There is no argument about that. it was ruthlessly exploited by Farage and his ilk. 

 

I think clarity might help in its own right, and might make the issues more obvious to voters, but there's an underlying issue that won't go away, and that is that a significant percentage of British people just don't "get" the EU.  There are all sorts of reasons for that, and we could argue all day about why that is and about the rights and wrongs of different views - but that won't change the fact that there is genuine division in the UK about the nature of its relationship to the rest of Europe and its role in it.

[Dunks]

1 hour ago, CJGJ said:

 

If they want to, let them all move abroad if they can find anyone who will take them

 

Would that mean advocating freedom of movement for the Brexiteers?

 

[ri Alban]

8 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

When Soubry and the hard Remainers responded to the "Peoples Vote" by  immediately setting out to reverse it, with every sign they will succeed in large measure, it is hardly surprising if some people feel they have no outlet.

 

Mogg and the hard Remainers, in refusing to contemplate any compromise with the 48% who voted Remain are equally culpable.

 

For all the incompetence May and the Government have shown the May deal seems to me a not unreasonable "neither wholly in or wholly out" compromise, especially if you believe in the EU's good faith (as surely most Remainers must) in implementing the terms of the "political declaration" on the future relationship between the UK and the EU.

It's Mogg and the hard Brexiteers. Brexit-s.

[Francis Albert]

6 hours ago, ri Alban said:

It's Mogg and the hard Brexiteers. Brexit-s.

Thanks. I've already been corrected and acknowledged my cock up. As cock ups go in this saga ...

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Corbyn could not be doing a worse job of making himself look like a leader with a clue. Keeps contradicting himself and blowing with the wind.

[Cade]

Govt loses another vote.

 

If May can't get her deal passed by Parliament on tuesday next week, she now has a three-day deadline to offer up a new plan and for Parliament to hold a vote on that new plan.

 

 

 

Edited January 9, 2019 by Cade

[Mikey1874]

1 hour ago, Cade said:

Govt loses another vote.

 

If May can't get her deal passed by Parliament on tuesday next week, she now has a three-day deadline to offer up a new plan and for Parliament to hold a vote on that new plan.

 

 

 

 

 

Fair enough. Lost 4 or 5 weeks by delaying the vote. 

 

Need to get to an agreed plan ASAP. 

[The Mighty Thor]

3 hours ago, Cade said:

Govt loses another vote.

 

If May can't get her deal passed by Parliament on tuesday next week, she now has a three-day deadline to offer up a new plan and for Parliament to hold a vote on that new plan.

 

 

 

Good.

 

Parliament and her own MPs are finally starting to tire of this nonsense of a government and hopefully we'll see progress one way or another.

[ri Alban]

No deal please. 

[The Mighty Thor]

Corbyn banging on again about a no confidence vote and a GE so that the winning party has the mandate to renegotiate. 

He should either put up or shut up as his 'Brexit plan' is every bit as shite as May's. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Corbyn banging on again about a no confidence vote and a GE so that the winning party has the mandate to renegotiate. 

He should either put up or shut up as his 'Brexit plan' is every bit as shite as May's. 

 

Corbyn should also be aware that a GE would be extremely high stakes for him and the Labour party, because if there did happen to be another GE and Labour were to lose it, then Corbyn's position and that of his shadow cabinet are completely untenable, he'd had lost twice to the weakest Tory government in living memory.

If that were to happen then watch the Labour party implode, because everybody knows that the Labour party are as divided over the EU as the Tories are, perhaps even more divided and there would also be a bitter leadership battle as well.

 

 

[doctor jambo]

On ‎08‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 23:28, Ulysses said:

 

For the avoidance of doubt, an MP was murdered by the far right.

 

In that context, I'd suggest that knowing where you draw the line is a good thing, and not knowing where you draw the line is not a good thing.

 

Blaming politicians for having "invited trouble"?  Suggesting that Remain supporters are equally to blame as hardline right-wingers and murderers?  Why am I reminded of the Provos and their apologist supporters who used to talk about "legitimate targets"?

An MP was killed, true- and  good one at that. That is clearly too far.

However- sight should not be lost that referenda give voice to extremists- they are a clarion call for division and polarisation- they legitimise extremist views.

The public. largely, want to live quiet lives with as little disruption as possible.

Brexit is the antithesis of this.

It was open day for protest, division, anger and fear- stoked by politicians.

Yet having lit the touch paper, they don't think they should be caught in the ensuing explosion?

That they should be shielded from the  fallout of their actions?

JLR laying off 5000 workers.

10 years of recession, and I lost a friend to suicide who lost his job/family and home .

Another deep recession of that sort- more cuts causing starvation of the poor, job losses, so on and so forth triggered by "politics" if you would- and the population are to be utterly passive and just suck it up?

I don't agree with what the far right OR left are doing- but I respect them for actually being so feckin mad about the situation that they are being heard.

And they are the only ones being heard- the rest of us are being ignored

[Ulysses]

6 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

An MP was killed, true- and  good one at that. That is clearly too far.

However....

 

However? 

 

There are no excuses for murder.  No ifs or buts, no shilly-shallying, and no "legitimate targets".

[doctor jambo]

1 minute ago, Ulysses said:

 

However? 

 

There are no excuses for murder.  No ifs or buts, no shilly-shallying, and no "legitimate targets".

That was one hell of a selective quote!

The politicos took a massive stick  and poked the hornets nest.

To use the murder of Jo Cox to try and stop people voicing justified anger is a bit much, frankly.

Especially when the "left"  skirt around condemning Palestinians , or in the case of Corbyn the IRA.

Politicians of all badge are going to have to accept the public were already strained before Brexit- they are going to take so stick

 

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

42 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

May apparently been talking to some labour mp who favour leave. Wouldn’t surprise me if she got a few of them to support her deal with a bit of horse dealing.

 

Still dont think will get passed

 

i just can’t see how we leave right now. 

And 90 minutes to debate a plan b the shysters in charge don't even have. 

Democracy in action. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

4 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

That was one hell of a selective quote!

The politicos took a massive stick  and poked the hornets nest.

To use the murder of Jo Cox to try and stop people voicing justified anger is a bit much, frankly.

Especially when the "left"  skirt around condemning Palestinians , or in the case of Corbyn the IRA.

Politicians of all badge are going to have to accept the public were already strained before Brexit- they are going to take so stick

 

Yeah we really need to condemn the Palestinians for throwing bricks/ rocks / catapults at their oppressors...yeah ! 

[doctor jambo]

14 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Yeah we really need to condemn the Palestinians for throwing bricks/ rocks / catapults at their oppressors...yeah ! 

Muse have some throw to reach from the Golan heights into Israel with a rock.......especially a rock that leaves a vapour trail and explodes.?

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, doctor jambo said:

Muse have some throw to reach from the Golan heights into Israel with a rock.......especially a rock that leaves a vapour trail and explodes.?

You know what a mean stop being an apologist for a vile regime which is committing daily genocide. 

[doctor jambo]

5 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

You know what a mean stop being an apologist for a vile regime which is committing daily genocide. 

I'm no fan of Israel, I can assure you,

[XB52]

56 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

I'm no fan of Israel, I can assure you,

so why the hell derail this thread with this stuff then??  If you want to have a go at the evil Palestinians start a thread about it. Surely there is enough rubbish regarding Brexit to keep this thread more or less on track 

[JAYEL]

We never voted for a deal

 

We voted to leave the EU

 

No deal please