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Brexit Negotiations

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Adam Murray

Except those breeds are the result of selective breeding.

 

They are both still dogs though, and as JF say's in the following post, yes we are all humans, with so much in common, but are also so different in so many way's.

 

Edit: Just had a wee look, and both dog breeds mentioned date back hundreds of years, so maybe not so much selective breeding. Anyways, kind of off topic from a Brexit thread  :toff:

Edited by Adam Murray

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jake

They are both still dogs though, and as JF say's in the following post, yes we are all humans, with so much in common, but are also so different in so many way's.

 

Ok yes i accept different qualities and flaws.

But to state that its a good thing to wipe out different tribes as the good doctor did.

Maybe ive took your comment wrong.

I thought maybe we were discussing superiority according to race.

So apologies if that wasnt your point.

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Adam Murray

Ok yes i accept different qualities and flaws.

But to state that its a good thing to wipe out different tribes as the good doctor did.

Maybe ive took your comment wrong.

I thought maybe we were discussing superiority according to race.

So apologies if that wasnt your point.

 

Haha, no, not really my point regarding wiping out different tribes etc, I never even seen that in the docs post.

 

I was merely pointing out that we, as humans, come in all shapes and sizes, mindsets, strengths and weaknesses etc

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Thunderstruck

This is a thread on Brexit Negotiations but it has morphed into a debate on EU-genics? Is there something in Brexit we haven't been told about.

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Adam Murray

This is a thread on Brexit Negotiations but it has morphed into a debate on EU-genics? Is there something in Brexit we haven't been told about.

 

Maybe Junckers planned New Model EU Army  :uhoh2:

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Boris

Haha, no, not really my point regarding wiping out different tribes etc, I never even seen that in the docs post.

 

I was merely pointing out that we, as humans, come in all shapes and sizes, mindsets, strengths and weaknesses etc

As do all species.

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Smithee

This is a thread on Brexit Negotiations but it has morphed into a debate on EU-genics? Is there something in Brexit we haven't been told about.

Oh very good!

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JamboX2

Yeah, I'm not denying that or saying that wasn't a good thing.

I get that. Issue is I:

 

1. Don't think a review of empire can either just be black or white.

2. Don't believe it can be a blueprint for our future (re-Brexit).

3. Think we need to have a more mature understanding of it in Scotland.

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Jambo-Jimbo

 

Heard something today which I was quite shocked at.

 

Many people are worried about how they fear that the UK government might use Brexit as an excuse to erode workers rights.

 

Well it turns out that the EU itself isn't exactly a champion of workers rights either.

 

Learned today that staff of MEP's within the European Parliament can be sacked for no reason whatsoever.

'Parliamentary assistants can be fired on the spot and without reason by the MEP they work for, according to staff contracts.'

https://www.politico.eu/article/sexual-harassment-brussels-faces-its-own-demons/

 

Sky News reported the same, that MEP's staff can be sacked for nothing, this I think has come to light because the European Parliament is facing it's own sexual harassment claims, which is a developing story and has nothing to do with Brexit, but has also exposed the lack of workers rights at the very heart of the EU.

 

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Boris
2 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Heard something today which I was quite shocked at.

 

Many people are worried about how they fear that the UK government might use Brexit as an excuse to erode workers rights.

 

Well it turns out that the EU itself isn't exactly a champion of workers rights either.

 

Learned today that staff of MEP's within the European Parliament can be sacked for no reason whatsoever.

'Parliamentary assistants can be fired on the spot and without reason by the MEP they work for, according to staff contracts.'

https://www.politico.eu/article/sexual-harassment-brussels-faces-its-own-demons/

 

Sky News reported the same, that MEP's staff can be sacked for nothing, this I think has come to light because the European Parliament is facing it's own sexual harassment claims, which is a developing story and has nothing to do with Brexit, but has also exposed the lack of workers rights at the very heart of the EU.

 

 

It is in general, but here we are talking about the relationship between an elected representative and their staff, which is slightly different to that of, say, a postman and the Royal Mail.  Which isn't to say I think that this is right and fair, just don't see it as if somehow Brexit is great because MEPs can sack their assistants.

 

The recent articles I have read re Brexit suggest it's going to be a monumental clusterf*ck for the economy, for the country, for the individual.  Really not good at all.  As Bloomberg recently said, why would a country doing so well do this to themselves?

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Jambo-Jimbo
2 hours ago, Boris said:

 

It is in general, but here we are talking about the relationship between an elected representative and their staff, which is slightly different to that of, say, a postman and the Royal Mail.  Which isn't to say I think that this is right and fair, just don't see it as if somehow Brexit is great because MEPs can sack their assistants.

 

The recent articles I have read re Brexit suggest it's going to be a monumental clusterf*ck for the economy, for the country, for the individual.  Really not good at all.  As Bloomberg recently said, why would a country doing so well do this to themselves?

 

No, Boris I think you've picked my post up completely wrong, it is not in anyway in support of Brexit nor is it anti EU, nor am I even insinuating that Brexit is a good idea because an MEP etc etc etc, and I have no idea how you have come to that assumption.

My post is highlighting something which I didn't know until today, something which, I'd think everybody no matter what their political views are, would agree is totally wrong.

I had thought the days were over where someone could be sacked at the whim of their boss, for no reason whatsoever, especially at the very heart of the EU, within the European Parliament, which would be the last place one would expect to find outdated draconian practices like this.

 

As I said in my original post, people are quite rightly worried in case the UK government don't adopt all the rights workers have under EU rules, well this is one EU rule I certainly hope the UK doesn't adopt.

And that is something surely everyone can agree about.

 

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JAYEL

Labour telling Leave voters we are leaving the  EU

 

Labour telling Remain voters we leaving the  EU but staying  in

 

I think they will be in for a shock if there was a snap Election with Brexit as the main issue

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Jambo-Jimbo
4 minutes ago, JAYEL said:

Labour telling Leave voters we are leaving the  EU

 

Labour telling Remain voters we leaving the  EU but staying  in

 

I think they will be in for a shock if there was a snap Election with Brexit as the main issue

 

The Lib Dems thought they were onto a good thing by throwing their lot behind Remain and wanting a second referendum, they really did think they had tapped into the public mood.

Whilst they did increase their parliamentary seats by 4, their overall vote share fell by 0.5%, which showed that their assumptions of capturing the public mood, seem to have been misjudged.

 

 

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JAYEL
8 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

The Lib Dems thought they were onto a good thing by throwing their lot behind Remain and wanting a second referendum, they really did think they had tapped into the public mood.

Whilst they did increase their parliamentary seats by 4, their overall vote share fell by 0.5%, which showed that their assumptions of capturing the public mood, seem to have been misjudged.

 

 

The Liberal Undemocratic Party

 

The Labour MP's nearly all want to Remain but wont say it in fear of losing votes

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Boris
2 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

No, Boris I think you've picked my post up completely wrong, it is not in anyway in support of Brexit nor is it anti EU, nor am I even insinuating that Brexit is a good idea because an MEP etc etc etc, and I have no idea how you have come to that assumption.

My post is highlighting something which I didn't know until today, something which, I'd think everybody no matter what their political views are, would agree is totally wrong.

I had thought the days were over where someone could be sacked at the whim of their boss, for no reason whatsoever, especially at the very heart of the EU, within the European Parliament, which would be the last place one would expect to find outdated draconian practices like this.

 

As I said in my original post, people are quite rightly worried in case the UK government don't adopt all the rights workers have under EU rules, well this is one EU rule I certainly hope the UK doesn't adopt.

And that is something surely everyone can agree about.

 

 

Ah, apologies JJ.

 

i fully agree that this is a wrong practice.

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Jambo-Jimbo
19 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

Ah, apologies JJ.

 

i fully agree that this is a wrong practice.

 

No worries Boris, easy mistake to make as it's not often that I make a non-partisan post on this thread. :laugh:

 

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Boris
8 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

No worries Boris, easy mistake to make as it's not often that I make a non-partisan post on this thread. :laugh:

 

:thumb:

Edited by Boris

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Jambo-Jimbo
42 minutes ago, JAYEL said:

The Liberal Undemocratic Party

 

The Labour MP's nearly all want to Remain but wont say it in fear of losing votes

 

I think they have been called worse than that, but yes I agree they want to have neverendum's until they get the result that they want.

 

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ri Alban
3 hours ago, Cade said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/01/ireland-will-have-final-say-on-progress-of-brexit-talks-says-eu

 

Ireland has the final veto. The Irish border issue remains the biggest sticking point.

 

Popcorn all round?

I'm actually starting to believe  the WM government and the DUP couldn't care less about peace.

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Rocco_Jambo
On 9/24/2017 at 00:47, Ulysses said:

 

It's sad that people will end up feeling that way because of media outlets like the BBC, Guardian and the Independents scaremongering.  The reality is that prosecutions and convictions of hate crimes in 2016-2017 is down.

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Ulysses
11 minutes ago, Rocco_Jambo said:

 

It's sad that people will end up feeling that way because of media outlets like the BBC, Guardian and the Independents scaremongering.  The reality is that prosecutions and convictions of hate crimes in 2016-2017 is down.

 

 

It took you 10 weeks to think of that?

 

Rightio, then.

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Ulysses

Meanwhile, now that the UK has agreed that it will pay its dues to the Union, the next stage is sorting out the land frontier question.

 

RTE: Coming days will stretch politics of Brexit to the limit

 

 

Apparently, discussions have been going on all weekend.

 

RTE: Irish Cabinet to meet tomorrow over progress of Brexit negotiations

 

The British and the Irish have a long track record of getting results when they talk to each other, though this is a pretty tricky gig.

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Rocco_Jambo
Just now, Ulysses said:

 

 

It took you 10 weeks to think of that?

 

Rightio, then.

 

No. I don't live on kickback and I don't read every single thread on a day by day basis. This is the first time I have read this thread and I thought I would read it from the start and then post something which I think is relevant to a post I have read. If you take umbrage at people replying to 10 week old posts then maybe you should time limit the reply function.

 

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Ulysses
6 minutes ago, Rocco_Jambo said:

 

 If you take umbrage at people replying to 10 week old posts then maybe you should time limit the reply function.

 

 

First, I don't set time limits for taking umbrage at anything; I just like to think that if someone is replying to a post that's long gone stale it would be much more interesting were they to say something that re-energises the discussion.

 

Secondly, if you think there's a value in setting time limits on the reply function, you could discuss that with one of the JKB management team rather than mentioning it to me.

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Rocco_Jambo
14 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

First, I don't set time limits for taking umbrage at anything; I just like to think that if someone is replying to a post that's long gone stale it would be much more interesting were they to say something that re-energises the discussion.

 

Secondly, if you think there's a value in setting time limits on the reply function, you could discuss that with one of the JKB management team rather than mentioning it to me.

 

I posted a reply that was relevant to your post. Apologies if it did not "re-energise the discussion" (a phrase which is the very epitome of bullshit management speak, "come on guys let's try and re-energise this discussion")

 

Your initial post and your petulant post responding to mine might not add anything to the discussion I agree but I thought mine did to yours when  I posted. If you don't think it's relevant  and it doesn't re-energise the discussion then please feel free not respond to me.

Edited by Rocco_Jambo

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Ulysses
Just now, Rocco_Jambo said:

 

I posted a reply that was relevant to your post. Apologies if it did not "re-energise the discussion" (a phrase which is the very epitome of bullshit management speak, "come on guys let's try and re-energise this discussion")

 

Your initial post and your petulant post responding to mine might not add anything to the discussion I agree but I thought mine did to yours when  I posted. If you don't think it's irrelevant  and it doesn't re-energise the discussion then please feel free not respond to me.

 

Your reply to my first point was so focused on finding an outlet for your personal irritation that you missed my point and addressed something else entirely.  And you forgot to deal with the second point of my post. 

 

By the way, instead of getting snide with me (for Jaysus knows what reason) should you not be more troubled by the fact that your Government seems to be making a mess of this Brexit business?

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Rocco_Jambo

 

11 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Your reply to my first point was so focused on finding an outlet for your personal irritation that you missed my point and addressed something else entirely.  And you forgot to deal with the second point of my post. 

 

By the way, instead of getting snide with me (for Jaysus knows what reason) should you not be more troubled by the fact that your Government seems to be making a mess of this Brexit business?

 

I never replied to your first point or missed your second point because you never made any points. Your post I replied to was a succinct post, based on a fact, in response to a copy and paste link you posted.

 

If you don't want to respond to my post or are trying to make presumption about me based on my post in a effort to not have to reply to it by asking me irrelevant questions then please don't  You do yourself a great disservice squire by trying to de-energise the discussion.

Edited by Rocco_Jambo

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Ulysses
1 minute ago, Rocco_Jambo said:

 

 

I never replied to your first point or missed your second point because you never made any points. Your post I replied to was a succinct post in response to a copy and paste link you posted based on a fact.

 

If you don't want to respond to my post or are trying to make presumption about me based on my post in a effort to not have to reply to it by asking me irrelevant questions then please don't  You do yourself a great disservice squire by trying to de-energise the discussion.

 

Whatever.  If you're going to be irritable, be irritable.  I'm just going to move on.

 

Back on topic:  Did you vote Leave?  If so, are you not at least a bit pissed off with the way your Government is going about leaving?  Did you vote Remain?  If so, are you not at least a bit pissed off by the way the Government can't seem to make up its collective mind what it wants out of the negotiations?

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Rocco_Jambo
7 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Whatever.  If you're going to be irritable, be irritable.  I'm just going to move on.

 

Back on topic:  Did you vote Leave?  If so, are you not at least a bit pissed off with the way your Government is going about leaving?  Did you vote Remain?  If so, are you not at least a bit pissed off by the way the Government can't seem to make up its collective mind what it wants out of the negotiations?

 

I'm not irritable. Let me remind you that your were the one who responded to my first post on this thread with "It took you 10 weeks to think of that? Rightio, then." (Very churlish but I unfortunately chose to engage with your further.)

 

I'll happily let you move on. As I've said on numerous occasions if you don't want to or can't reply to my post then just decide not to and don't bother replying to me.

 

It's very cute that after doing everything you could not to respond to my original post that you now want to ask me questions.

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Ulysses
5 minutes ago, Rocco_Jambo said:

 

It's very cute that after doing everything you could not to respond to my original post that you now want to ask me questions.

 

I asked because I thought it might get the discussion on topic.  You do seem to prefer staying off topic, and to keep making personal jibes, but that's your business. 

 

Anyway, please consider the question unasked.  :thumbsup:

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Ulysses

For people posting on this thread who voted Leave:  Are you to some extent pissed off with the way your Government is going about leaving? 

 

For Remain voters: Are you a bit pissed off by the way the Government can't seem to make up its mind what it wants out of the negotiations?

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Rocco_Jambo

I responded directly to the topic you posted in this thread. If my post was off topic then it's because it was a response to a post which you posted which was off topic.

 

It's interesting though that your reasons for not responding to my post have changed though. First it was because of how long I took to post it. Then it was because I failed to "re-energise" the discussion. Then it was because I was irritable. Now it is because I am off topic.

 

You would make a good politician Ulysses I'll give you that.

 

 

Edited by Rocco_Jambo

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Ulysses
12 minutes ago, Rocco_Jambo said:

You would make a good politician Ulysses I'll give you that.

 

Cheers, Rocco.  If I haven't got back to you about this by February 12th, we can call it quits. 

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Rocco_Jambo

Very good. "Lets just wait an see what happens".  A perfect politicians answer.

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Ulysses
29 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

For people posting on this thread who voted Leave:  Are you to some extent pissed off with the way your Government is going about leaving? 

 

For Remain voters: Are you a bit pissed off by the way the Government can't seem to make up its mind what it wants out of the negotiations?

 

 

I'm just bringing this BTTT, as they say. 

 

I'm biased in this, because I live in the EU27.  But I do think the UK Government has been more focused on its own internal political arguments and jockeying for position than on what it wants or needs to achieve in its dealings with the EU27.  And I think our side's negotiators have performed in a more coherent way, even though they have to represent 27 countries which can be a recipe for chaos.  Now I might say that anyway because I'm biased, and in any case what I'm saying only applies up to now and can change in the future, but I suspect that a fair few people in the UK would agree - both Remain and Leave voters.

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Joey J J Jr Shabadoo

I've always assumed the negotiations amount to no more than take what the EU offers, or leave it. The UK government expected everyone to back us, no questions asked (ie any Australian deal). 

 

Now, rather than admit they don't have a clue, are just full of toff bluster. 

 

People like IDS are irrelevant and should be ignored. 

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doctor jambo

It was apparent some time ago that this was descending into an utter farce.

There can be no good deal.

Not even sure there can be a bad deal.

 

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Cade

UK concedes on the Irish Border question.

NI will not diverge from most EU laws and regulations. Which means that NI will stay in the single market and customs union.

 

How Wales and Scotland react to this remains to be seen.

 

:scenes: 

 

*update* DUP are very unhappy about this and have said that Stormont will veto it. Even though there is no Stormont government at the moment.

Edited by Cade

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Joey J J Jr Shabadoo
Just now, Cade said:

UK concedes on the Irish Border question.

NI will not diverge from most EU laws and regulations. Which means that NI will stay in the single market and customs union.

 

How Wales and Scotland react to this remains to be seen.

 

:scenes: 

Brilliant. 

This is working out brilliantly for the toffs. Not. 

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Boris
3 minutes ago, Cade said:

UK concedes on the Irish Border question.

NI will not diverge from most EU laws and regulations. Which means that NI will stay in the single market and customs union.

 

How Wales and Scotland react to this remains to be seen.

 

:scenes: 

 

*update* DUP are very unhappy about this and have said that Stormont will veto it. Even though there is no Stormont government at the moment.

 

Interesting to see on what basis Stormont can veto it, given the various devolved parliaments/assemblies were told previously they had no right to.

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Sraman
9 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

Interesting to see on what basis Stormont can veto it, given the various devolved parliaments/assemblies were told previously they had no right to.

 

They may not be able to veto IT but they can certainly veto everything else the Tories need DUP backing on (and get to keep the cash) as I would think that this situation means that the Tories have reneged on their part of the deal.

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Ibrahim Tall

What a ****** up they've made of this if true, while the Irish border situation was a nightmare by conceding they've basically conceded similar rights to Scotland who also voted to 'remain'. The "United" argument doesn't hold much water when everyone isn't included. Gibraltar is probably thinking likewise.

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jake

It seems as though Brussels are happy to move on to next round of talks.

Regarding the Irish question imo it has a whole different aspect to it than Scotland or Wales .

I think it's a mature move from the prime minister.

To seperate Ireland would setback many decades of progress .

Difficult times ahead for the Tories but no one can accuse them of appeasing the unionist vote now. 

It also guarantees the future for my worried neighbours.(immigrants)

Don't want to pick a fight Ulysses but imo Rocco had a point regarding scaremongering in certain media outlets.

12 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

 

I'm just bringing this BTTT, as they say. 

 

I'm biased in this, because I live in the EU27.  But I do think the UK Government has been more focused on its own internal political arguments and jockeying for position than on what it wants or needs to achieve in its dealings with the EU27.  And I think our side's negotiators have performed in a more coherent way, even though they have to represent 27 countries which can be a recipe for chaos.  Now I might say that anyway because I'm biased, and in any case what I'm saying only applies up to now and can change in the future, but I suspect that a fair few people in the UK would agree - both Remain and Leave voters.

 

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Jambo-Jimbo
45 minutes ago, Sraman said:

 

They may not be able to veto IT but they can certainly veto everything else the Tories need DUP backing on (and get to keep the cash) as I would think that this situation means that the Tories have reneged on their part of the deal.

 

IIRC the DUP deal is only for the Budget, Queen's Speech and something else which I can't remember what, everything else is fair game and indeed the DUP have sided with Labour on a couple of occasions recently to defeat the Government.

The DUP could withdraw their support for the Tories, but the Tories could still lead a minority Government, just wouldn't get anything passed, but I don't think it necessary would mean the Government would fall, well not right away at any rate.

 

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doctor jambo

So in effect Northern Ireland are not going to leave the EU along with the rest of us.

 

 

Erm, OK then!

 

Expect us to now remain part of the customs union and free market now

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Rab87

DUP say no to regulatory divergence.

Where does that leave us?

Edited by Rab87

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Ibrahim Tall
44 minutes ago, Rab87 said:

DUP say no to regulatory divergence.

Where does that leave us?

 

The same deal as them, I.e whole of UK stays in the common market.

 

Possibly.

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