Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[Mike]

1 minute ago, Pans Jambo said:

The Japan deal is WORSE than the current deal we have with the EU. How much trade do we do with NZ/Australia etc?

 

The EU is the single biggest trading market on the planet and by the way, this debate is a waste of time. Leaving the EU was NEVER about securing our borders or getting back control or paying the EU 450Million a week (which by the way turns out to be 150Million after we get our rebate back so theres that) any of that shite. It was to fill the coffers of the super wealthy when they eventually turn the UK into a tax haven for the super rich to hide their billions. And like any other tax haven on the planet, it'll have the minority wealthy and the majority in low paid service work with no employee rights.

 

Welcome to tory little britain. 

 

You have been sold a pup.

If we are talking about scotland our single biggest trading partner is the UK. 

 

Can you share all these articles where the EU have stated we can rejoin would love to read them?

[Pans Jambo]

5 minutes ago, Mike said:

If we are talking about scotland our single biggest trading partner is the UK. 

 

Can you share all these articles where the EU have stated we can rejoin would love to read them?

Who said anytimg about ‘articles’?

 

Look, your obviously a sad wee tory who sucks up everything Bojo says. 
 

Brexit is ALREADY a disaster and will be an even BIGGER disaster next year but hey ho, lets sell everything to Norway 😂

 

 

Edited December 10, 2020 by Pans Jambo

[Pans Jambo]

https://www.thenational.scot/news/18462298.unionists-furious-eu-boss-indicates-indy-scotland-can-rejoin/

 

[Pans Jambo]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49690513

[Pans Jambo]

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news/trade-experts-says-scotland-could-join-eu-after-brexit-84970

 

[Mike]

1 minute ago, Pans Jambo said:

https://www.thenational.scot/news/18462298.unionists-furious-eu-boss-indicates-indy-scotland-can-rejoin/

 

The quote above is mentioned nowhere but the national 😂😂😂😂. You couldn't make it up. Loads of people have said then you send me one little quote from the national.

[Pans Jambo]

https://www.itv.com/news/2020-02-02/an-independent-scotland-would-be-welcomed-enthusiastically-by-eu-tusk

 

[Mike]

1 minute ago, Pans Jambo said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49690513

This one just says the process of joining is complicated. 

[Pans Jambo]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/10/independent-scotland-would-be-welcome-to-join-eu-say-green-meps

[Pans Jambo]

@Mike you're having a nightmare lad. 

 

Complicated . Better not bother then eh 

 

 

[Justin Z]

Bottom line whether you think these articles say much of anything or not, is that there's a zero percent chance of rejoining the EU until Scotland says it's time for England and the Union to stand on their own, and cuts the umbilical cord.

[Pans Jambo]

The National

The Guardian

The BBC

The ITV

The New European

 

I think I will just stop there because the keyboard warrior @Mike  says hes right.

Edited December 10, 2020 by Pans Jambo

[Mike]

4 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

@Mike you're having a nightmare lad. 

 

Complicated . Better not bother then eh 

 

 

Having a nightmare aye ok. The only articles that think we would walk back in are in the National and The New European. To be honest you had little credibility when you advertise being from the Pans then lost more when you made up false numbers about imported food. 😀

[Harry Potter]

5 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

The National

The Guardian

The BBC

The ITV

The New European

 

I think I will just stop there because the keyboard warrior @Mike  says hes right.

We might get our fishing waters back and stop throwing dead fish back.

[Pans Jambo]

20 minutes ago, Harry Potter said:

We might get our fishing waters back and stop throwing dead fish back.

Yeah that'll keep the economy going.

[Cade]

"spain wilnae let skoatland in cozae catalonia likes"

 

Aye I must have missed Spain vetoing the Czech Republic and Slovakia after they declared independence from each other.

And Croatia.

And Cyprus.

And they've not stood in the way of negotiations with Bosnia, North Macedonia, Montenegro, Kosovo and Serbia either.

 

That argument is 100% pish

[Harry Potter]

Just now, Pans Jambo said:

Yeah that'll keep the economy going.

certainly help our fishing industry.

[Pans Jambo]

23 minutes ago, Mike said:

Having a nightmare aye ok. The only articles that think we would walk back in are in the National and The New European. To be honest you had little credibility when you advertise being from the Pans then lost more when you made up false numbers about imported food. 😀

Childish. What's being from Prestonpans got to do with this?

You said "articles", I didn't. Then I show some articles and you don't like them because it doesnt agree with your opinions (you said you must have missed reading the "articles")

What "numbers" about imported food are you talking about?

The 60% figure? I was being kind:

https://www.businessinsider.com/no-deal-brexit-percentage-british-food-imported-shortages-2019-1?r=US&IR=T

 

If you're going to debate play the game don't play the man!

[Pans Jambo]

4 minutes ago, Harry Potter said:

certainly help our fishing industry.

How?

Who are they going to sell all the seafood to?

[Mike]

Just now, Pans Jambo said:

Childish. What's being from Prestonpans got to do with this?

You said "articles", I didn't. Then I show some articles and you don't like them because it doesnt agree with your opinions (you said you must have missed reading the "articles")

What "numbers" about imported food are you talking about?

The 60% figure? I was being kind:

https://www.businessinsider.com/no-deal-brexit-percentage-british-food-imported-shortages-2019-1?r=US&IR=T

 

If you're going to debate play the game don't play the man!

Ok here are the actual figures based on 2019 so can't see much change there. 0nly 26% is EU. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/food-statistics-pocketbook/food-statistics-in-your-pocket-global-and-uk-supply

[Pans Jambo]

3 minutes ago, Mike said:

Ok here are the actual figures based on 2019 so can't see much change there. 0nly 26% is EU. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/food-statistics-pocketbook/food-statistics-in-your-pocket-global-and-uk-supply

OK granted I haven't seen that but it still shows 45% imported. Currently because we are in the EU we import from other countries on an EU based tariff. Not in the EU then its WTO rules and that's at least 7 - 10% more expensive (plus the blockade at the ports). I would rather eat oranges from Spain than Oranges from Australia given the length of time on a boat or the additional cost on a plane.

i.e. still shite!

[RobboM]

Surely though there is a major problem with an independent Scotland rejoining the EU. Is it not creating the exact same situation as in the island of Ireland? In hat scenario, assuming you want to avoid hard borders, then England would have to cast itself in the role of N Ireland and effectively remain part of the Single Market.

[Harry Potter]

1 hour ago, Pans Jambo said:

How?

Who are they going to sell all the seafood to?

We will still sell seafood abroad, anyway its the EU rules on fishing i was on about, do 

you honestly think by coming out the EU exports are going to stop.

[Pans Jambo]

1 minute ago, Harry Potter said:

We will still sell seafood abroad, anyway its the EU rules on fishing i was on about, do 

you honestly think by coming out the EU exports are going to stop.

Of course I don't but the same argument is used against Scotland leaving the UK.

 

A huge amount of our seafood goes to Europe. If they don't get any access to our waters they may just decide to not buy from us. In any case, no deal and imports/exports become more difficult and probably a lot more expensive so theres that.

 

0.01% of the UK's GDP so its not a big deal from a jobs perspective (unless you're a fisherman of course).

 

Fishermen get a lot of discussion and airtime for a tenth of a percentage point of our GDP in comparison to other industries that will be hurt from Brexit.

[RobboM]

11 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Even if that were true it wouldn't amount to an attempt to dismantle the single market.

 

The UK wants a trade agreement much on the lines of the EU's other trade agreements with non-EU members.

Take your pick

[Smoked-Glass]

13 hours ago, Toxteth O'Grady said:

Nah - the EU is like marriage. If you don’t go into it you will be ok. If you do go into and decide you want out it will cost you big style.

Very true. 

 

Over time it will return to the pre marriage state, but only for the next generation. 

[Harry Potter]

59 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Of course I don't but the same argument is used against Scotland leaving the UK.

 

A huge amount of our seafood goes to Europe. If they don't get any access to our waters they may just decide to not buy from us. In any case, no deal and imports/exports become more difficult and probably a lot more expensive so theres that.

 

0.01% of the UK's GDP so its not a big deal from a jobs perspective (unless you're a fisherman of course).

 

Fishermen get a lot of discussion and airtime for a tenth of a percentage point of our GDP in comparison to other industries that will be hurt from Brexit.

Suppose i am a bit biast on the subject of fishing, i had relatives fishing out of Eyemouth back in the day. 

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, Pans Jambo said:

A huge amount of our seafood goes to Europe. If they don't get any access to our waters they may just decide to not buy from us.

If they don't get access we won't get tariff free fish exports to the EU so it's very likely they will indeed look elsewhere for cheaper prices.

 

Many are complaining about being held to ransom by the EU. They have a stronger hand, they're using it to their advantage in negotiations with an outsider nation, of course they are. Their obligation is to act in their members' interests

It's exactly what many brexiteers were crowing about us doing when we held all the cards, when the EU needed us more than we needed them.

 

Well this is reality, we're out, they're not going to cave. Their woman isn't running to London, it's Boris running to Brussels.

And let's not forget that Merkel and Macron have the power to veto a deal they don't fancy. 

 

Remember when we had influence in the EU?

[Pans Jambo]

14 minutes ago, Smithee said:

If they don't get access we won't get tariff free fish exports to the EU so it's very likely they will indeed look elsewhere for cheaper prices.

 

Many are complaining about being held to ransom by the EU. They have a stronger hand, they're using it to their advantage in negotiations with an outsider nation, of course they are. Their obligation is to act in their members' interests

It's exactly what many brexiteers were crowing about us doing when we held all the cards, when the EU needed us more than we needed them.

 

Well this is reality, we're out, they're not going to cave. Their woman isn't running to London, it's Boris running to Brussels.

And let's not forget that Merkel and Macron have the power to veto a deal they don't fancy. 

 

Remember when we had influence in the EU?

[Mysterion]

1 hour ago, Pans Jambo said:

Fishermen get a lot of discussion and airtime for a tenth of a percentage point of our GDP in comparison to other industries that will be hurt from Brexit.

 

I think most people probably:

Sympathetic to fisherman who have lost out over the decades. 

Probably would rationalise the arguments and come to the point we should control "almost all" if not all access to the waters around the UK.

Pragmatic enough to view that we need to barter to create benefits from the European relationship.

 

That said i think most people ultimately just don't see the value of the fishing industry versus damaging a big part of our economy. Absolutely crazy stuff to hurt millions of people for an industry that's so small.

Edited December 10, 2020 by Mysterion
clarification.

[RobboM]

I remember watching a programme on the Scottish fishing industry and a point they were making is that their exports were seen as premium and that the "fresh" part of fresh seafood was very important. At the moment they can export to EU with no barriers or delays, it gets there as fast as it is possible. As soon as you start putting delays in place, additional paperwork, inspections, consequential delays from other exports you risk losing the very thing that made your product a premium export.

[Captain Sausage]

16 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

By whom?

By the party who was voted in to deliver Brexit predominantly by those who voted for Leave. 

[SectionDJambo]

It won't be long now before we find out who has been scaremongering and who has been telling lies.

That could be confused with the blame game, if there's no deal. Boris and his mates blaming the EU for being intransigent, and the EU blaming the UK government for demanding too much from them.

It was never going to be easy negotiating with so many countries with so many varied interests. The EU main players cannot allow the UK to leave with the same benefits as we have now, and then not expect other big countries thinking about leaving. Other countries don't have the complications that we have, like the island of Ireland.

Neither side looks like being able to keep their protagonists happy with a compromise. 

[sadj]

5 hours ago, Justin Z said:

Bottom line whether you think these articles say much of anything or not, is that there's a zero percent chance of rejoining the EU until Scotland says it's time for England and the Union to stand on their own, and cuts the umbilical cord.

Good Afternoon Mr Z , may one enquire if this is correct. Raab who is a Tory and they want a no deal as it suits their pocket lining more has stated that the EU must move positions drastically or we will take Sunday as finality and have no deal.
 

Not Britain conceding anything to have an EU market to trade with on more favourable terms but they must move position for us?

 

Or as usual (i used or at the start of a sentence just for you) have i misunderstandeded

Edited December 10, 2020 by sadj

[sadj]

5 hours ago, Justin Z said:

Bottom line whether you think these articles say much of anything or not, is that there's a zero percent chance of rejoining the EU until Scotland says it's time for England and the Union to stand on their own, and cuts the umbilical cord.

Further to this will it mean the deportation of any scruffy Peniquickers with manbuns?

 

4 hours ago, Harry Potter said:

certainly help our fishing industry.

I think it will make it worse for them. Certainly the farmers up here voted Bowie back in and he stabbed them right in the back.

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

If they don't get access we won't get tariff free fish exports to the EU so it's very likely they will indeed look elsewhere for cheaper prices.

 

Many are complaining about being held to ransom by the EU. They have a stronger hand, they're using it to their advantage in negotiations with an outsider nation, of course they are. Their obligation is to act in their members' interests

It's exactly what many brexiteers were crowing about us doing when we held all the cards, when the EU needed us more than we needed them.

 

Well this is reality, we're out, they're not going to cave. Their woman isn't running to London, it's Boris running to Brussels.

And let's not forget that Merkel and Macron have the power to veto a deal they don't fancy. 

 

Remember when we had influence in the EU?

Great post imo 

[Justin Z]

5 minutes ago, sadj said:

Good Afternoon Mr Z , one may enquire if this is correct. Raab who is a Tory and they want a no deal as it suits their pocket lining more has stated that the EU must move positions drastically or we will take Sunday as finality and have no deal.
 

Not Britain conceding anything to have an EU market to trade with on more favourable terms but they must move position for us?

 

Or as usual (i used or at the start of a sentence just for you) have i misunderstandeded

 

The argument I waded into was basically “Scotland won't be easily admitted back into the EU — aye we will”.

My point was, as long as Scotland is in the UK, the chance of it re-entering the EU is effectively nil. The only thing Scotland can do is cutt the cord and force England to try to stand on its own two feet, without Scottish support. Scotland's been dragged down enough and it's time for it to go its own way.

[Lone Striker]

50 minutes ago, Mysterion said:

 

I think most people probably:

Sympathetic to fisherman who have lost out over the decades. 

Probably would rationalise the arguments and come to the point we should control "almost all" if not all access to the waters around the UK.

Pragmatic enough to view that we need to barter to create benefits from the European relationship.

 

That said i think most people ultimately just don't see the value of the fishing industry versus damaging a big part of our economy. Absolutely crazy stuff to hurt millions of people for an industry that's so small.

Fair comment.   In addition, I cannot fathom out the rationale behind anything UK fishermen are saying.    They're complaining that CURRENTLY, the industry is teetering on the brink - boats are not making much money  due to LOW market prices !!   Hopefully someone can explain how ANY Brexit change (deal or no-deal) improves that - a deal on fishing will basically allow EU vessels to continue as they are now (maybe with quotas or some restrictions) in exchange for UK fishermen selling at low or zero tariff into the EU.    A no-deal takes away much of their sales into the EU because of tariffs.     What do they think either scenario gives them ?

 

Having said all that, I think the vast majority of UK boats are owned by a relatively small number of owners - which may mean a bit of argy-bargy out on the seas to keep other boats away from productive areas, which in turn might account for some of the current doom & gloom we're hearing.

 

Anyone else noticed the publication today of the EU's Brexit contingency document for member countries ?  It has a clause which proposes a continuation of reciprocal access of EU vessels into UK waters and vice versa until Dec 2021.         

Sounds like things are getting a bit feisty now.

[Beni]

58 minutes ago, Mysterion said:

 

I think most people probably:

Sympathetic to fisherman who have lost out over the decades. 

Probably would rationalise the arguments and come to the point we should control "almost all" if not all access to the waters around the UK.

Pragmatic enough to view that we need to barter to create benefits from the European relationship.

 

That said i think most people ultimately just don't see the value of the fishing industry versus damaging a big part of our economy. Absolutely crazy stuff to hurt millions of people for an industry that's so small.

 

Even as a card carrying remainer I think that the UK fishing industry was shafted when the UK joined the EEC.

The pooling of fish stocks wasn't a thing until the UK and Ireland joining looked to be on the cards. Then the original EEC members thought it would be a jolly wheeze to allow them to get a share of the large resource around the British Isles. As fishing has been a totemic issue for Brexit, the lesson for the EU is, be careful what you wish for, they won the battle but ultimately lost the war.

 

That said the movers and shakers behind Brexit don't give a shiny shite about the fishing, industry, they just used it as a fig leaf to escape the rules they think curtail their pursuit of wealth.

 

[Francis Albert]

4 hours ago, RobboM said:

Take your pick

The European Commission. Can always rely on it for an unbiased view!

[Costanza]

The will of the people was a soft Brexit.

The Government knows full well that a hard brexit or no deal Brexit will severely damage the economy for it's citizens.

 

Servants of the people.

[Mysterion]

56 minutes ago, Costanza said:

The will of the people was a soft Brexit.

The Government knows full well that a hard brexit or no deal Brexit will severely damage the economy for it's citizens.

 

Servants of the people.

 

I've never known a Conservative government prioritise in order to serve the people.

[CJGJ]

If you were stupid enough to vote for Brexit then tough luck but you voted for the points below and more

 

Imagine trusting those in charge to do a deal...Boris, Gove etc...god some of the lowest of the low in British politics

 

Imagine thinking in a divorce you will 'win' and be better off....deceit on a grand scale from the above

 

Imagine an agreement failing just because of a few fisherman etc (10 to 12,000)...their influence far outweighs their use and the size of the industry.

 

Imagine leaving the EU and thinking somehow immigration will be more easily controlled

 

Imagine thinking all will be the same come January 1st re travel abroad with no extra costs or inconvenience

 

 

Now the rest of us have to live with the decision made and voted on by many who are no longer with us or who will not be alive to live through the consequences of their actions. That may seem harsh but given they want to dump us with those consequences tough

[Costanza]

35 minutes ago, Mysterion said:

 

I've never known a Conservative government prioritise in order to serve the people.

Well, quite. But still, the country voted for them (a minority but that's FPTP for you).

[DETTY29]

Apparently despite risk of 'no deal' being the public message from both sides, the negotiators, again on both sides were briefing journalists a deal would be done but that changed last night following the Johnson, von der Leyen dinner.

 

The guy who negotiated the Canadian, EU deal was on Lunchtime Live and said the UK would be in a better position than Canada to get a decent deal, but the UK absolutely kidding itself on that it would get an even 'decent' deal.  'Beyond niave' I think was the term he used of the UK.  (

 

Looking more likely no deal and up to a year of further negotiations.

 

Of course things may change dramatically by Sunday, but the desperation is unlikely to be on the EU side.

 

(Churchillian, sorry Basil Fawlty spirit, or is it the reverse, can only get you so far)

Edited December 10, 2020 by DETTY29

[Ainsley Harriott]

No deal Brexit immenent. British independence on they way and 2014 was once in  generation. Lovely jubly.

[manaliveits105]

The EU is also warning that it could ban British airlines from serving European destinations unless Mr Johnson allows European fishing vessels access to UK waters.
 

these are the kind of snakes we are dealing with 

hopefully they will allow plane loads of Krankies to leave the UK before closing the airspace down and let the rest of us get on with our lives

[Ainsley Harriott]

1 minute ago, manaliveits105 said:

The EU is also warning that it could ban British airlines from serving European destinations unless Mr Johnson allows European fishing vessels access to UK waters.
 

these are the kind of snakes we are dealing with 

hopefully they will allow plane loads of Krankies to leave the UK before closing the airspace down and let the rest of us get on with our lives

I'm sure the spanish and Greek tourism providers will be delighted by that threat. The real truth is that Britain breaking away and prospering will be end of the EU.

[Victorian]

"I'll try to get a deal but everyone should prepare for that Australia option".

 

"That Australia option" meaning no deal whatsoever.  He might as well call it The Martian Agreement or The Brigadoon Protocol.

 

It's called no deal you *****.

[Costanza]

3 minutes ago, Victorian said:

"I'll try to get a deal but everyone should prepare for that Australia option".

 

"That Australia option" meaning no deal whatsoever.  He might as well call it The Martian Agreement or The Brigadoon Protocol.

 

It's called no deal you *****.

Just more bullshit that the useful leave idiots lap up.

If we had involved business, legal experts, trade negotiators etc. in the original referendum rather than politicians, we might not be in this mess.

The reality will hit home soon but how many leavers will own this shitshow and not blame the EU....not many I'll bet.

[SectionDJambo]

3 minutes ago, Victorian said:

"I'll try to get a deal but everyone should prepare for that Australia option".

 

"That Australia option" meaning no deal whatsoever.  He might as well call it The Martian Agreement or The Brigadoon Protocol.

 

It's called no deal you *****.

It’s classic diversion and misinformation. Australia is on the other side of the world. Europe is next door.

Remember when Johnson, Rees Mogg, Farage and the rest of the gang told us that Europe needed the U.K. more than the U.K. needed Europe.?How the EU always caved in at the last minute?

Trump losing his election has blown up their only plan B. 
The EU is far from perfect but I fear that we are about to find out how much of a self inflicted, xenophobic mistake this has been.