Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[Notts1874]

Just now, Costanza said:

I was being sarcastic....

Ah but were you being sarcastic in a specific and limited way??? 

[Costanza]

13 minutes ago, Notts1874 said:

Ah but were you being sarcastic in a specific and limited way??? 

Haha, well limited is a character trait I specialise in...

 

[DETTY29]

Interesting article about longer term impacts.

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/09/what-young-healthy-people-have-fear-covid-19/616087/

 

Narurally needs to be assessed against other social and health issues from lockdown but still an eye opener

Edited September 8, 2020 by DETTY29

[Notts1874]

Advocate General looking like he doesn't want to be part of law breaking either. 

[maroonlegions]

Belter;

 

 

 

[Beni]

[Toxteth O'Grady]

On 06/09/2020 at 23:56, fancy a brew said:

 

The organisation that redistributes billions per year from the more affluent countries to the poorer countries? A wee bit socialisty for a rich man's club no?

One of the big selling points of Brexit was how much it cost to be members. I'd have thought you'd have been happy to send money to the less prosperous nations. Obviously not.

37% of the EU budget is given to wealthy landowners under the Common Agricultural Policy, as a general rule the wealthier you are the more you get.

[Dawnrazor]

4 minutes ago, Toxteth O'Grady said:

37% of the EU budget is given to wealthy landowners under the Common Agricultural Policy, as a general rule the wealthier you are the more you get.

The RSPB recieve millions and produce little if any food and thier results on bird numbers on thier reseeves are so poor they stopped releasing the figures!! It's this sort of thing I'd love to see stopped, the "naked acre" problem is a farce too, a root and branch reform is desperately needed.

[Beni]

12 minutes ago, Toxteth O'Grady said:

37% of the EU budget is given to wealthy landowners under the Common Agricultural Policy, as a general rule the wealthier you are the more you get.

 

If you want landowners to produce food or plant trees or whatever, then short of Mugabe style land grab then they need an incentive. I don't doubt that the CAP needs reform, but my point was to do with the redistribution element of the EU budget from the richer to the poorer countries.

 

[Toxteth O'Grady]

52 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

If you want landowners to produce food or plant trees or whatever, then short of Mugabe style land grab then they need an incentive. I don't doubt that the CAP needs reform, but my point was to do with the redistribution element of the EU budget from the richer to the poorer countries.

 

I get that but if CAP is 37% of the budget then surely a lot of the money that goes to poorer countries is going straight to their biggest land owners.

[Justin Z]

Kind of remarkable when you think about it, and kind of exactly what we always should've expected.

 

The people harmed by this are not the Tories or their backers, never would be. As broad groups, we have this non-exhaustive list:

 

- EU residents in the UK, who were not given a voice at all
- Gibraltar, whose entire economy is predicated on an open border with Spain, and who voted to remain

- The Northern Irish, battered by 3+ decades of death, who voted to remain

 

That last one is extra dicey. Britain already has experience with reneging on promises related to the GFA, but with zero leadership amongst the Tories to draw upon in this case, will we see a re-emergence of the Provisionals? A replay of the 1996 Manchester bombing? Even worse? It's unconscionable to even open the door to possibilities like that, and yet here we are.

 

Whether the GFA speaks on the existence of a border (remember that "discussion?" 🤦🏻‍♂️) doesn't mean much when we're talking about things like this.

 

Put all that on top of the high likelihood of shortages and the society-wide issues that might bring with it...

  

3 hours ago, jumpship said:

Boris Johnson. 

‘Brexit deal never made sense’ says man who negotiated it, signed it, prevented MPs from scrutinising it, campaigned for it and won a general election on the back of it.

 

But it'll be this to the end. Deflect and deny with fingers in ears. Brexit was always about putting two fingers up at the establishment, don't you know, and breaking international law and treaties is just the next brilliant step in that.

[Costanza]

A No Deal Brexit is a long term grift on the British people.

The question is, who ultimately benefits from a No Deal Brexit?

Hedge Funds, Right of centre think tanks pushing for market deregulation and lowering of environmental standards (Tufton Street basically), US companies and government eager for a desperate UK seeking a trade deal and Russia.

All of these have connections and finances to the current members of the Government.

There is a hell of a lot money to be made out of good old fashioned disaster capitalism and if the British public have to pay the price, then this government doesn't care.

Who to blame?

Well obviously anyone stupid enough to vote for Boris Johnson as Prime Minister but also Labour, Lib Dems, the SNP and those Change charlatans who couldn't come round to an agreed Soft Brexit (which was the actual will of the people) in the Indicative votes.

They f*cked up the opportunity to have a soft Brexit and now we are all going to be f*cked.

 

[CJGJ]

Still it will be fine the Brexiteers tell us

 

Now they want to ignore laws they have signed up to only in January

 

How low does this government and those in favour of Brexit need to go

 

Cheats and liars all of them and our word clearly means nothing.....again acting not for the country but for themselves

 

You always want to think there will be enough Conservatives of standing to oppose such a deal but Boris and co are simply proving what many said about them and plenty on here tried to defend...not feeling so smug now are you

 

Criminals, cheats, liars, law breakers all of them and when you voted for them you voted to put people such as this in power...you bear responsibility for this as well

[davemclaren]

4 hours ago, Costanza said:

A No Deal Brexit is a long term grift on the British people.

The question is, who ultimately benefits from a No Deal Brexit?

Hedge Funds, Right of centre think tanks pushing for market deregulation and lowering of environmental standards (Tufton Street basically), US companies and government eager for a desperate UK seeking a trade deal and Russia.

All of these have connections and finances to the current members of the Government.

There is a hell of a lot money to be made out of good old fashioned disaster capitalism and if the British public have to pay the price, then this government doesn't care.

Who to blame?

Well obviously anyone stupid enough to vote for Boris Johnson as Prime Minister but also Labour, Lib Dems, the SNP and those Change charlatans who couldn't come round to an agreed Soft Brexit (which was the actual will of the people) in the Indicative votes.

They f*cked up the opportunity to have a soft Brexit and now we are all going to be f*cked.

 

Strangely enough they probably thought sense would prevail. May’s was just more of a soft option than Boris’s. 

[ri Alban]

7 hours ago, Costanza said:

A No Deal Brexit is a long term grift on the British people.

The question is, who ultimately benefits from a No Deal Brexit?

Hedge Funds, Right of centre think tanks pushing for market deregulation and lowering of environmental standards (Tufton Street basically), US companies and government eager for a desperate UK seeking a trade deal and Russia.

All of these have connections and finances to the current members of the Government.

There is a hell of a lot money to be made out of good old fashioned disaster capitalism and if the British public have to pay the price, then this government doesn't care.

Who to blame?

Well obviously anyone stupid enough to vote for Boris Johnson as Prime Minister but also Labour, Lib Dems, the SNP and those Change charlatans who couldn't come round to an agreed Soft Brexit (which was the actual will of the people) in the Indicative votes.

They f*cked up the opportunity to have a soft Brexit and now we are all going to be f*cked.

 

The SNP were representing the Scottish remain vote and every constituent . Most of the others went against their constituencies. Just a wee fact. 

[ri Alban]

4 hours ago, CJGJ said:

Still it will be fine the Brexiteers tell us

 

Now they want to ignore laws they have signed up to only in January

 

How low does this government and those in favour of Brexit need to go

 

Cheats and liars all of them and our word clearly means nothing.....again acting not for the country but for themselves

 

You always want to think there will be enough Conservatives of standing to oppose such a deal but Boris and co are simply proving what many said about them and plenty on here tried to defend...not feeling so smug now are you

 

Criminals, cheats, liars, law breakers all of them and when you voted for them you voted to put people such as this in power...you bear responsibility for this as well

Scotland has to go and go now or we will be destroyed. 

[Cade]

If we do rip up the legally binding international treaty known as the Withdrawal Agreement (and by extension the Good Friday Agreement along with it), then the EU will probably prosecute the UK at the European Court of Justice.

It has the power to levy fines (which the UK will simply refuse to pay)

It has the power to launch trade wars (if you think WTO tariffs are bad, just wait and see)

It even has the power to order sanctions (like blocking any and all imports of, say, fish from the UK, or denying UK banks access to the EU banking systems)

 

And in the midst of all this we'll be trying to make new deals with dozens of nations around the world who wouldn't be able to trust anything we say in the negotiations as we'll officially be a rogue state that ignores legally binding international treaties.

[ri Alban]

2 minutes ago, Cade said:

If we do rip up the legally binding international treaty known as the Withdrawal Agreement (and by extension the Good Friday Agreement along with it), then the EU will probably prosecute the UK at the European Court of Justice.

It has the power to levy fines (which the UK will simply refuse to pay)

It has the power to launch trade wars (if you think WTO tariffs are bad, just wait and see)

It even has the power to order sanctions (like blocking any and all imports of, say, fish from the UK, or denying UK banks access to the EU banking systems)

 

And in the midst of all this we'll be trying to make new deals with dozens of nations around the world who wouldn't be able to trust anything we say in the negotiations as we'll officially be a rogue state that ignores legally binding international treaties.

Scotland should rip up the Act of Union. Goose and Gander! 

Edited September 9, 2020 by ri Alban

[Cade]

Text of the UK internal market bill includes:

"The following have effect notwithstanding any relevant international or domestic law with which they may be incompatible or inconsistent"

A legal admission that the UK government intends to breach legally binding international law.

 

[ri Alban]

2 minutes ago, Cade said:

Text of the UK internal market bill includes:

"The following have effect notwithstanding any relevant international or domestic law with which they may be incompatible or inconsistent"

A legal admission that the UK government intends to breach legally binding international law.

 

The UK government now has veto on everything the SG does. Just shut Holyrood or put the Scottish Tories in government, as the Scottish office has taken unelected control of trade and many devolved matters like fishing. 

Scots will have to fight for their country, now. 

[CJGJ]

4 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

The UK government now has veto on everything the SG does. Just shut Holyrood or put the Scottish Tories in government, as the Scottish office has taken unelected control of trade and many devolved matters like fishing. 

Scots will have to fight for their country, now. 

So all we do is rip up any agreement with England and hey presto

 

It's not as if they will be able to complain

[ri Alban]

1 minute ago, CJGJ said:

So all we do is rip up any agreement with England and hey presto

 

It's not as if they will be able to complain

Do you think Boris, sorry, Dominic gives a feck about any agreement. They'll steamroller anyone and anything who gets in their way. They don't care what people think. And Scotland will be silenced and the SNP made an example of. 

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

I agree, just tell Johnson and his English nationalists we're having another vote and if we win, the union is over. There doesn't appear much they can do, if we play them at their own game.

[manaliveits105]

Fatty Blackford shut down by Boris and the speaker  in west Minster - mans a total embarrassment - snp still want to screw the Scottish fishermen 

[Cade]

"The Withdrawal Agreement was done in a rush", says Boris.

 

Strange, because I distinctly remember there being several extensions to the two-year negotiation period.

Lying fat feck.

[RobboM]

2 hours ago, Cade said:

"The Withdrawal Agreement was done in a rush", says Boris.

 

Strange, because I distinctly remember there being several extensions to the two-year negotiation period.

Lying fat feck.

Which was why he prorogued parliament to prevent discussion. FFS we are in Trump land re-writing of history with a bare faced smirk and ***** voted for this lying *****!

[The Mighty Thor]

2 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

Fatty Blackford shut down by Boris and the speaker  in west Minster - mans a total embarrassment - snp still want to screw the Scottish fishermen 

The Scottish fishermen that voted to leave the trading block where they sell the majority of the fish they catch? 

[Unknown user]

2 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

Fatty Blackford shut down by Boris and the speaker  in west Minster - mans a total embarrassment - snp still want to screw the Scottish fishermen 

The nick of you

[Costanza]

18 hours ago, davemclaren said:

Strangely enough they probably thought sense would prevail. May’s was just more of a soft option than Boris’s. 

Yeah, I think there was an element of stopping Brexit altogether rather than a concession, which sadly has backfired 

[Costanza]

15 hours ago, ri Alban said:

The SNP were representing the Scottish remain vote and every constituent . Most of the others went against their constituencies. Just a wee fact. 

I understand the SNP position but they did abstain on Ken Clarke's Custom Union vote which would have got it through.

Easy with hindsight admittedly but if all the Remain camps had come together and agreed a soft Brexit option,  it would have gone through.

Ho hum.

[redjambo]

2 minutes ago, Costanza said:

I understand the SNP position but they did abstain on Ken Clarke's Custom Union vote which would have got it through.

Easy with hindsight admittedly but if all the Remain camps had come together and agreed a soft Brexit option,  it would have gone through.

Ho hum.

 

A very good point indeed, Costanza. There was too much disparity in what the different parties wanted, whereas the main aim should have been to choose a mutually agreeable soft Brexit. Perhaps too many MPs incorrectly believed that there was a chance of stopping Brexit altogether, and this led them to not take the soft Brexit option seriously enough.

[Lone Striker]

2 hours ago, Costanza said:

I understand the SNP position but they did abstain on Ken Clarke's Custom Union vote which would have got it through.

Easy with hindsight admittedly but if all the Remain camps had come together and agreed a soft Brexit option,  it would have gone through.

Ho hum.

 

 

2 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

A very good point indeed, Costanza. There was too much disparity in what the different parties wanted, whereas the main aim should have been to choose a mutually agreeable soft Brexit. Perhaps too many MPs incorrectly believed that there was a chance of stopping Brexit altogether, and this led them to not take the soft Brexit option seriously enough.

 

Yes... dogmatic viewpoints on all sides last year has led to the current fiasco.   Corbyn couldn't bring himself to support  anything Teresa May  did as a matter of principle, so Labour's position was to vote down her Withdrawal agreement each time.   Pretty much the same with the SNP, although at least they could claim they were representing the 100% constituency remain vote.   LibDem position of just wanting to reverse Brexit without another referendum was downright daft.     None of them seemed to consider the possibility that the ERG wing of the Conservative party might gain control of Brexit policy despite May's precarious position of leading a minority government which was struggling to pass anything.

 

A case of be careful what you wish for.

 

No matter how you look at it, these last 5 years have been a tragic period for politics.

 

[ri Alban]

Boris and his gang would've just torn up any TM deal. Boris is going for a no deal, and has always planned  no deal. And now, The US have said the UK will be getting no trade deal if the GFA is shat on. 

Anyway, Who is going to trust anything this government does now? 

Edited September 10, 2020 by ri Alban

[Cade]

EU lawyers reckon just tabling the UK Internal Market Bill constitutes a breach of the Withdrawal Arrangement.

They're already drawing up documents to submit to the ECJ.

Could be that the UK will be hit with either a fine or other sanctions the day after the negotiations deadline passes.

 

[Don Dan]

This is Boris and co not thinking things through. No surprise there though.

[Cade]

After taking legal advice, EU issues a lengthy statement denouncing the UK's idiocy and points out the penalty clauses in the Withdrawal Agreement and says it will not hesitate to use them.

 

Back home, various legal experts are ripping into the Government's position and ridiculing the Attorney General.

 

It's all coming to a head in the worst possible way.

 

But we did tell you so.

 

[Mysterion]

13 minutes ago, Cade said:

Back home, various legal experts are ripping into the Government's position and ridiculing the Attorney General.

Wouldn’t take much - Suella Braverman is an absolute joke. Rewarded for supporting Brexit and a woeful MP. 

[The Mighty Thor]

44 minutes ago, Mysterion said:

Wouldn’t take much - Suella Braverman is an absolute joke. Rewarded for supporting Brexit and a woeful MP. 

Oh for sure. She's definitely one promoted beyond her skill level. 

[Cade]

Have you read the AG's legal case?

 

"In the UK domestic constitution, Parliament is sovereign so that means it can also ignore international law" 

No dear, it may have sovereignty on domestic affairs, but not in international ones.

She doesn't even know the feckin law.

[Victorian]

They're really taking the biscuit in the total arsehole stakes now.    Stunning display of cack-handed cockwomblery.

 

Arrogance beyond your abilities never tends to bear fruit.   

[Seymour M Hersh]

On 09/09/2020 at 13:20, CJGJ said:

So all we do is rip up any agreement with England and hey presto

 

It's not as if they will be able to complain

 

Not like the EU don't break treaties. Received the biggest ever WTO fine (double the previous largest) over Boing/Airbus.  According to top trade lawyers the EU is also in breach of the WA (also an international treaty) in a number of major respects. 

[CJGJ]

22 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Not like the EU don't break treaties. Received the biggest ever WTO fine (double the previous largest) over Boing/Airbus.  According to top trade lawyers the EU is also in breach of the WA (also an international treaty) in a number of major respects. 

You can't ignore the point made despite your reply

 

Supporting Brexit and this bunch of clowns has led to this ..you are part of it hence in part liable and seemingly support the breaking of the agreement.

Instead of hiding just admit it and we move on knowing your stance

[Cade]

So, how are the EU breaching the Withdrawal Arrangement.

Pray tell.

 

[Seymour M Hersh]

1 hour ago, CJGJ said:

You can't ignore the point made despite your reply

 

Supporting Brexit and this bunch of clowns has led to this ..you are part of it hence in part liable and seemingly support the breaking of the agreement.

Instead of hiding just admit it and we move on knowing your stance

 

Oh dear oh dear. 

[Pans Jambo]

On 09/09/2020 at 17:33, The Mighty Thor said:

The Scottish fishermen that voted to leave the trading block where they sell the majority of the fish they catch? 

Not all of them.
Many voted to remain as they know who actually buys their product.
But lets let the fishing industry be the main reason we stay in this cruddy “union” eh? Better not upset the fishermen. Where would the 5.4Million Scots be without the fishermen?

 

[ri Alban]

 

[Norm]

Woo-hoo! 

 

Free Trade Agreement announced with Japan. At least someone, somewhere, in the government knows how to make a deal. 

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-and-japan-agree-historic-free-trade-agreement

[Justin Z]

4 minutes ago, Normthebarman said:

Woo-hoo! 

 

Free Trade Agreement announced with Japan. At least someone, somewhere, in the government knows how to make a deal. 

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-and-japan-agree-historic-free-trade-agreement

 

Lol. Meanwhile

 

Not a peep about the EU's supposed breaches . . . funny that

[Cade]

Replacing the £15bn deal we have with Japan as part of the EU with.....a £15bn deal.

Well done for treading water.

 

[Cade]

Boris and Gove:

"We have to breach international law and rip up the WA and GFA because they combine to make a hard brexit illegal and always have and we don't like this fact so we're going to ignore legally binding international treaties."
"In fact if you think hard enough it's the EU that are going to break up the UK because the GFA forces the Irish border to run down the Irish sea and although this is how the GFA works we're claiming that having an open border on the island of Ireland is a danger to the peace process"