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Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )


jumpship

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13 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Alternatively:

The EU has no obvious alternative source of fish (the Med and Baltic and Black Sea  are fished out despite 50 years of the EU Common Fishery Policy) and there are no obvious substitutes for UK fish within easy reach of the European market)

UK imposes tariffs on UK exports of fish  (perhaps in part retaliation for EU tariffs on cars?)

This funds protection of UK waters against over fishing.

And UK investment in the UK fishing industry which recovers from long continuing decline in the 50 years of the Common Fishery Policy.

Who knows? 

 

 

In a no deal scenario WTO rules apply, they are designed to outlaw the kind of sector by sector, tit for tat tariffs you envisage. A country can unilaterally reduce tariffs, (but this must apply across the board) but can't unilaterally increase tariffs above the level set by the WTO. 

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SectionDJambo

Whatever the great benefits, or severe financial and employment detriment, of the looming no deal, between the UK and the EU, we'll find out soon enough.

Then we'll have the "we told you so" brigade, of whoever has been telling the truth, and the excuses and blame reasoning of those who haven't been straight with the, middle ground, UK electorate.

Personally, I'll take whatever comes. I've no other choice, like all of us. It will be interesting to see who has been truthful, though.

Looking at these characters decending on Dover does draw comparison with other extreme right wing activity of the past, which was supposed to never happen again. This doesn't fill me with great optimism about the future of "Great" Britain.

Apart from thinking that Brexit will stop illegal immigrants crossing the English Channel, which it won't, the major worry for those concerned citizens will probably be when they realise their cheap fags and booze allowance, on returning from the Costas, will be greatly reduced.

 

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Keep reading how this country is so neo nazi.

Yet out of every European country we have the least far right representation in all of our parliaments.

 

As for the rabble that marched to Dover.

I'd like to hear a sensible opinion on how we solve the ever growing problem of illegal migration across the channel.

Also your wonderful EU and its response to the crossing of the Mediterranean.

 

It's no longer an argument to cry racist.

This is only getting to be a larger problem.

 

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The Real Maroonblood
16 minutes ago, jake said:

Keep reading how this country is so neo nazi.

Yet out of every European country we have the least far right representation in all of our parliaments.

 

As for the rabble that marched to Dover.

I'd like to hear a sensible opinion on how we solve the ever growing problem of illegal migration across the channel.

Also your wonderful EU and its response to the crossing of the Mediterranean.

 

It's no longer an argument to cry racist.

This is only getting to be a larger problem.

 

Maybe these parliaments have a PR system and would possibly account for this.

The Westminster system is outdated.
 

 

Edited by The Real Maroonblood
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22 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Maybe these parliaments have a PR system and would possibly account for this.

The Westminster system is outdated.
 

 

Even allowing for PR we dont have the same mainstream representation.

 

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The Real Maroonblood
12 minutes ago, jake said:

Even allowing for PR we dont have the same mainstream representation.

 

True, whether that will change remains to be seen.

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16 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

True, whether that will change remains to be seen.

Imo that depends on whether we can have debate on issues which if just closed down will see many opt for those who have a deeper far right agenda.

 

I've every sympathy with the poor souls who risk their lives crossing open seas.

We can only imagine the life they leave behind.

The problem will only grow.

Australia certainly employed draconian tactics.

Whether you agree with that or not .

It worked.

 

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The Real Maroonblood
22 minutes ago, jake said:

Imo that depends on whether we can have debate on issues which if just closed down will see many opt for those who have a deeper far right agenda.

 

I've every sympathy with the poor souls who risk their lives crossing open seas.

We can only imagine the life they leave behind.

The problem will only grow.

Australia certainly employed draconian tactics.

Whether you agree with that or not .

It worked.

 

This.

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Australia's illegal concentration camps didn't work.

They were forcibly shut down by the UN.

 

Anybody holding up Ozzie land as a picture of how to do immigration is a feckin muppet.

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SectionDJambo

In my opinion, what tends to be forgotten about, is that if the UK and US hadn't decided to invade Iraq, under a false assumption or pretex that they had chemical weapons and intended to use them, all of these refugees may not be on the move. That was the start of the dominoe effect affectionately known as "arab dawn" by the western powers.

The western powers have a history of interfering in the affairs of other countries and then leaving rubble, and a power vacuum, behind for the surviving nationals of those countries to deal with. This usually results in a far worse situation than existed beforehand, and has certainly spawned various terrorist organisations and actions.

Then people moan about refugees trying to get away from a mess that the west left behind.

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Well quite.

We're very happy to export weapons and training programmes to these nations but not so happy about having to clean up the mess made with them.

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2 hours ago, Cade said:

Australia's illegal concentration camps didn't work.

They were forcibly shut down by the UN.

 

Anybody holding up Ozzie land as a picture of how to do immigration is a feckin muppet.

 

BareEvergreenKiwi.webp

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3 hours ago, Cade said:

Australia's illegal concentration camps didn't work.

They were forcibly shut down by the UN.

 

Anybody holding up Ozzie land as a picture of how to do immigration is a feckin muppet.

Stopped lots of desperate people making perilous journeys across open oceans once word got back .

Morally or ethically dodgy .

What's your answer just open borders?

 

Ideally we would balance the worlds economy but we cant even balance our own.

So please tell me what your answer is ?

 

Or is is just racist and muppet etc .

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41 minutes ago, jake said:

Stopped lots of desperate people making perilous journeys across open oceans once word got back .

Morally or ethically dodgy .

What's your answer just open borders?

 

Ideally we would balance the worlds economy but we cant even balance our own.

So please tell me what your answer is ?

 

Or is is just racist and muppet etc .

I want only 2 closed borders post independence. The US(If Trump is still President) and rUK.(You don't invite robbers who tanned yer hoose round for dinner) The World! come on in. 

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1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

I want only 2 closed borders post independence. The US(If Trump is still President) and rUK.(You don't invite robbers who tanned yer hoose round for dinner) The World! come on in. 

After initial strong resistance to Union, Scotland tanned houses all over the World in partnership with England for 2 centuries, and prospered on the proceeds. Wrong it most certainly was but it's historic fact. If Scotland does go its own way, it cannot disown its own history and blame it on the big bad English. The respected historian and independence supporter Professor Sir Tom Devine, says as much.

 

You cannot and should not falsify history. It really isn't helpful. 

Edited by SwindonJambo
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Francis Albert
51 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

After initial strong resistance to Union, Scotland tanned houses all over the World in partnership with England for 2 centuries, and prospered on the proceeds. Wrong it most certainly was but it's historic fact. If Scotland does go its own way, it cannot disown its own history and blame it on the big bad English. The respected historian and independence supporter Professor Sir Tom Devine, says as much.

 

You cannot and should not falsify history. It really isn't helpful. 

The Scots of course  played a disproportionately large part in the Empire. But ri Alban has a very narrow definition of Scot. Anyone living outside Scotland doesn't  qualify so that takes out empire builders and slave owners. If you live in Scotland and vote other than SNP you are a traitor. 

Fortunately he is not representative of Scottish Nationalists. Though he is not alone in his views.

Edited by Francis Albert
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2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

I want only 2 closed borders post independence. The US(If Trump is still President) and rUK.(You don't invite robbers who tanned yer hoose round for dinner) The World! come on in. 

The rest of the world?

Are you sure about that because most of it lives in abject poverty.

There isnt enough room or resource for us to welcome all.

And those who advocate such should really think about what they are saying.

 

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4 minutes ago, Cruyff said:

Is this boring shite still going on? :vrface:

Yep.

Same old nonsense being spouted by usually those with left leaning thoughts on how a tory type organisation called the EU is the vanguard of animal ,worker,and general freedom rights.

 

Well said Johann

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7 hours ago, Cade said:

Australia's illegal concentration camps didn't work.

They were forcibly shut down by the UN.

 

Anybody holding up Ozzie land as a picture of how to do immigration is a feckin muppet.

👍

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23 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

👍

You can thumbs up if you like.

But crammed boats of desperate people are not the norm anymore in Australian waters.

 

And unless you have a different answer desperate people will still die trying to get here Europe and other places.

 

So I'd like to hear what your answer is ?

 

Unless you support people trafficking criminal gangs.

 

Not read a reply from anyone yet.

Apart from Aussie who wants a ban on the English and Americans.

 

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The Mighty Thor
Just now, luckydug said:

Covid will be the go to excuse when Brexit goes tits up imo. 

No "you voted for it so we're just carrying out your wishes" will be the go to excuse from 1/1/21

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10 minutes ago, luckydug said:

Covid will be the go to excuse when Brexit goes tits up imo. 

Well saying as its pretty much messed up every economy I'd say most governments will be using that.

Or is it only the UKs economy that's took a doing.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, jake said:

Well saying as its pretty much messed up every economy I'd say most governments will be using that.

Or is it only the UKs economy that's took a doing.

 

 

It's only the UK government that is exiting the EU in the middle of a Pandemic. 

You'd think it would be pragmatic to delay the process until things are more stable. 

 

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27 minutes ago, luckydug said:

It's only the UK government that is exiting the EU in the middle of a Pandemic. 

You'd think it would be pragmatic to delay the process until things are more stable. 

 

I've some empathy with this view.

 

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Boris planning to rip up the Withdrawal arrangement.

 

Hard border in Ireland unavoidable.

GFA breached.

 

The very hardest Brexit.

 

UK going back on internationally brokered legal obligations.

And we're tying to make trade deals?

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4 minutes ago, Cade said:

Boris planning to rip up the Withdrawal arrangement.

 

Hard border in Ireland unavoidable.

GFA breached.

 

The very hardest Brexit.

 

UK going back on internationally brokered legal obligations.

And we're tying to make trade deals?

 

As our French neighbours would say "Quelle surprise !".

 

This was always how it was going to pan out.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

As our French neighbours would say "Quelle surprise !".

 

This was always how it was going to pan out.

 

 

I will be surprised if it does.

 

I expect a pragmatic solution to protect business last minute dot com.

The EU is set up to protect the rich.

 

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SectionDJambo
13 minutes ago, Cade said:

Boris planning to rip up the Withdrawal arrangement.

 

Hard border in Ireland unavoidable.

GFA breached.

 

The very hardest Brexit.

 

UK going back on internationally brokered legal obligations.

And we're tying to make trade deals?

Surely not the “oven ready” agreement? You know, the “fantastic” one that he managed to claim as his, even though it was, more or less, the same as the one May couldn’t get through the Conservative side of Parliament.

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11 minutes ago, jake said:

I will be surprised if it does.

 

I expect a pragmatic solution to protect business last minute dot com.

The EU is set up to protect the rich.

 

But clearly not the Conservative government ?

 

All this time and now I realise they were set up to protect the poor

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8 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

But clearly not the Conservative government ?

 

All this time and now I realise they were set up to protect the poor

Clearly they are not.

 

Although Thatchers government raised the standard of living fundamentally .

 

Aside from that how do you think the EU is any different from UK conservatives?

They practice austerity.

They set policies which favour the rich nations.

They bail out to protect multi national (German)companies at the expense of social services.

The currency favours the exporting nations.

 

Just because I favour brexit doesnt mean I'm a tory.

And you making that argument is convenient .

For you anyway

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26 minutes ago, jake said:

I will be surprised if it does.

 

I expect a pragmatic solution to protect business last minute dot com.

The EU is set up to protect the rich.

 

 

The organisation that redistributes billions per year from the more affluent countries to the poorer countries? A wee bit socialisty for a rich man's club no?

One of the big selling points of Brexit was how much it cost to be members. I'd have thought you'd have been happy to send money to the less prosperous nations. Obviously not.

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1 minute ago, fancy a brew said:

 

The organisation that redistributes billions per year from the more affluent countries to the poorer countries? A wee bit socialisty for a rich man's club no?

One of the big selling points of Brexit was how much it cost to be members. I'd have thought you'd have been happy to send money to the less prosperous nations. Obviously not.

 

Like a benefit trap ?

I definitely do not think it's a good thing for the poorer nations.

 

A wee bit socialist?

Mmm.

I'm struggling to see or find an example of success from socialist economic countries.

Two examples.

The USSR.

Broken up

China

Booming state controlled capitalism.

Fascism.

 

I'm all for well funded services but let's be honest that's down to wealth creation and the EU in general is stagnant.

And in fact the UK has been even after the brexit vote(which we were told that alone would crumble jobs economy etc)the more successful.

 

Relying on handouts keeps you trapped.

Just like Scotland and the barnet stuff.

 

My opinion.

 

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2 minutes ago, jake said:

 

Like a benefit trap ?

I definitely do not think it's a good thing for the poorer nations.

 

A wee bit socialist?

Mmm.

I'm struggling to see or find an example of success from socialist economic countries.

Two examples.

The USSR.

Broken up

China

Booming state controlled capitalism.

Fascism.

 

I'm all for well funded services but let's be honest that's down to wealth creation and the EU in general is stagnant.

And in fact the UK has been even after the brexit vote(which we were told that alone would crumble jobs economy etc)the more successful.

 

Relying on handouts keeps you trapped.

Just like Scotland and the barnet stuff.

 

My opinion.

 

 

Not a benefit trap, eg the Republic of Ireland were net beneficiaries for several decades, but are now net contributers, so are now in the position to help other countries grow, and everyone benefits. 

 

Off the top of my head examples of successful socialist countries would be Sweden and France, but maybe they're just successful cos they're in the EU. 😉

 

 

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1 minute ago, fancy a brew said:

 

Not a benefit trap, eg the Republic of Ireland were net beneficiaries for several decades, but are now net contributers, so are now in the position to help other countries grow, and everyone benefits. 

 

Off the top of my head examples of successful socialist countries would be Sweden and France, but maybe they're just successful cos they're in the EU. 😉

 

 

France

😂

Sweden and Scandinavian countries in general are high tax high earning economies.

 

The ROI is in essence very conservative.

Anyway brew I'm going to bed.

 

Stick in mate

👍

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1 hour ago, Cade said:

Boris planning to rip up the Withdrawal arrangement.

 

Hard border in Ireland unavoidable.

GFA breached.

 

The very hardest Brexit.

 

UK going back on internationally brokered legal obligations.

And we're tying to make trade deals?

Plan all along 

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Since sovereignty over UK fishing grounds is such a totemic issue for the Brexiteers, it's worth having a wee look at how the map will look after Brexit has acted as the catalyst for Scottish independence.

EhTPQjuWAAAFUmb?format=jpg&name=900x900

:pleasing:

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2 hours ago, Mysterion said:

 

 

Femi is great at pulling apart the Brexit arguments. 

 

The SPFL came out with pretty much the same comment as Boris after the in-house SFA arbitration decision went their way, despite previously hoping to  mitigate the effect of the vote on us & PT by their half-hearted attempt to push through reconstruction.

 

Other good outcomes  though - Celtic getting dumped out the CL ....... and hopefully Europa League soon. 

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On 31/08/2017 at 12:18, jumpship said:

After the third round of talks.

 

No decisive dicisions have been made.

 

UK demands are simply unattainable.

 

EU, No clarity on border issue.

 

UK, EU needs to be flexible.

 

Its all going well then.

 

Its STILL all going well... 

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Easiest deal in history

An oven-ready deal

We hold all the cards

The 500million of them in 27 nations need us more then we need them

We'll get Canada +

We'll get Norway ++

There will be no border in Ireland

 

57c496efb6fa0217008b4840?width=1100&form

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Montgomery Brewster
2 hours ago, Cade said:

Easiest deal in history

An oven-ready deal

We hold all the cards

The 500million of them in 27 nations need us more then we need them

We'll get Canada +

We'll get Norway ++

There will be no border in Ireland

 

57c496efb6fa0217008b4840?width=1100&form

😂

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The Mighty Thor
1 hour ago, JT1959 said:

Jonathon Jones top gov lawyer resigns

He is apparently 'very unhappy' at his boss Suella Bravermann's lack of understanding of EU treaties and international law. Not great for an Attorney General. 

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5 minutes ago, Costanza said:

I don't understand the fuss.

We're allowed to change our minds after a vote when new information and circumstances change aren't we?

Not when you've signed legally binding international treaties

 

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Boris Johnson. 

‘Brexit deal never made sense’ says man who negotiated it, signed it, prevented MPs from scrutinising it, campaigned for it and won a general election on the back of it.

 

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  • davemclaren changed the title to Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

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