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Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )


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2 hours ago, Cade said:

Economy crashes after cliff-edge no deal brexit: "this is because of covid, not brexit"

That will be the line.

 

 

We had 10 years of austerity on a little over 2% dip in the economy after the banking crash. Frightening what 20%+ due to covid then Brexit will be. Licence for them to throw Billions at their pals and murder everyone unemployed, old or in a wheelchair!

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The thing is, who benefits from a no deal Brexit, other than venture capitalists, currency speculators or foreign states aiming to weaken Western democracies?

Thankfully,  we don't have any political parties or politicians who have received sizeable donations from any of these groups....

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40 minutes ago, Costanza said:

The thing is, who benefits from a no deal Brexit, other than venture capitalists, currency speculators or foreign states aiming to weaken Western democracies?

Thankfully,  we don't have any political parties or politicians who have received sizeable donations from any of these groups....

Imo we all do.

Getting out this early is a blessing.

Just my opinion.

 

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6 hours ago, jake said:

Imo we all do.

Getting out this early is a blessing.

Just my opinion.

 

So why is almost every business sector saying it would be a disaster?

What evidence do you have that it won't, and that we will benefit on WTO rules?

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UK demands that the EU waters down it's geographic protection laws for things like champagne, feta and other such region-specific consumables AND also demands that UK specific foods like Arbroath Smokies, Melton Mowbray pork pies, Scotch whisky and Stilton cheese maintain their protected status.

 

EU laughed them out of the room.

 

 

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Lone Striker

If honest democracy is to survive as the gold standard for governing  a country, surely there has to be some kind of independant inquiry into how a referendum campaign where the main group advocating the change proposition convinced the majority to vote for it on the basis of  emotion  & dubious economic "facts" - most of which turned out to be  undeliverable due to the simple truth that every aspect of the UK's withdrawal from the EU had to be negotiated, and was never in the gift of the UK alone to dictate.    

 

As things look currently, the Trade negotiations are falling apart with both side seemingly content to walk away.  It could be a game of last minute poker - who knows -  but the Boris government has an air of  incompetence and crisis about it now, with Cummings lurking in the back seat operating the satnav.    If there is no trade deal whatsoever, the electorate will have been utterly duped ..... lied to...... and any of us with half a brain are unlikely to fall for spin such as "EU intransigence shows we're better out of it".

 

How would the electorate react ?   Riots in the street ?  Looting of pharmacies and bakeries ?  Or just shrug shoulders and prepare for the next election ?  

 

Perhaps a defeat for Trump in  November might provide a jolt of reality for Boris & Co ?

 

 

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@Lone Striker

 

There won’t be an inquiry but when the reality of this withdrawal hits home I can see a backlash against the people who pushed for Leave. Boris and Farage et al will be lynched. 
 

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39 minutes ago, Cade said:

They'll just blame the brown people and bash on 

I blame loads of folk some of them are brown I suppose to borrow your term.

55 minutes ago, Boy Daniel said:

@Lone Striker

 

There won’t be an inquiry but when the reality of this withdrawal hits home I can see a backlash against the people who pushed for Leave. Boris and Farage et al will be lynched. 
 

Come ahead 

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Lone Striker
5 hours ago, Boy Daniel said:

@Lone Striker

 

There won’t be an inquiry but when the reality of this withdrawal hits home I can see a backlash against the people who pushed for Leave. Boris and Farage et al will be lynched. 
 

You're probably right about no inquiry.   The political establishment won't go for it.  They're the equivalent of the SPFL - a closed shop set up to preserve a biased status quo. 

 

 For all the pressure being put on   social media companies to prevent shady organisations & individuals from peddling fake news,  there seems to be no pressure at all being put on the Electoral Commission to prevent or even monitor the equivalent of fake news being peddled by elected MPs and their advisors.       Quite outrageous.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Cade said:

Government admits it's unlikely that a deal will be done before December.

 

Blames the EU (naturally).

Read that and it reminded me of Cilla Black somehow.

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On 27/08/2020 at 16:48, Pans Jambo said:

We had 10 years of austerity on a little over 2% dip in the economy after the banking crash. Frightening what 20%+ due to covid then Brexit will be. Licence for them to throw Billions at their pals and murder everyone unemployed, old or in a wheelchair!

The economy shrunk by about 7% peak to trough after the banking crisis. Still only 1/3 of the COVID contraction.

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5 hours ago, SwindonJambo said:

The economy shrunk by about 7% peak to trough after the banking crisis. Still only 1/3 of the COVID contraction.

Gordon Brown dealt with 2008 in a Heartbeat. If Labour had won 2010, the debt wouldn't be £2t now and the public services would be in good health. 

The resulting austerity only happened to the wee guy. And Nick Clegg is an arsehole for his pursuit of power. 

Edited by ri Alban
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4 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Gordon Brown dealt with 2008 in a Heartbeat. If Labour had won 2010, the debt wouldn't be £2t now and the public services would be in good health. 

The resulting austerity only happened to the wee guy. And Nick Clegg is an arsehole for his pursuit of power. 

 

He didn’t “deal with it in a heartbeat”. What total nonsense. He drew up a very viable recovery plan and even the next government stuck to it over a course of years. Had Labour been re-elected in 2010, they had plans for spending  cuts in the same ball park as the next government (nearly but no quite as severe). They had no choice due to the hit on tax receipts. Then Chancellor Alastair Darling has said so.  I dislike the Conservatives and never have or will vote for them but I’m fair minded and Labour certainly had plans for austerity too, albeit a little milder. Because they didn’t get the chance to implement it, they don’t get criticised for it.

 

You cannot possibly say where Public Services and National Debt would have been under Labour had they won in 2010. Nor could any top  economist. Their plans weren’t drastically different so if it wasn’t £2tn, it would likely have been similar, give or take £200bn.

 

The resulting austerity certainly mostly (but no exclusively) happened to the wee guy. Loads of people further up the food chain lost everything and had to start afresh. 

 

I totally agree with you about Clegg. His toadying spineless behaviour has done untold long term damage to his party and they’ve yet to recover at the polls. The Tories are never natural bedfellows of the Lib Dems  in a million years and many of their former supporters have deserted them.

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With Britain less than four months away from its final split with the European Union, U.K. Housing Secretary Robert Jenrick gave himself sweeping powers to build truck parks across large parts of England to avoid chaotic queues at ports.

 
 

The government will be able to start construction in 29 different council areas without the approval of local officials, according to a statutory instrument laid before Parliament on Thursday. The areas included stretch from Devon and Somerset to Warwickshire and Suffolk.

 
 

The government has already started constructing holding facilities for lorries in Kent, which will be used to park goods vehicles which don’t have the correct paperwork to enter the EU. The holding pens are a key part of Britain’s plans to avoid border delays from Jan. 1, when full customs controls will be imposed on goods traveling from the U.K. whether or not it reaches a trade deal with the bloc.

 
 

“This Order grants temporary planning permission for development consisting of the use of land for the stationing and processing of vehicles (particularly goods vehicles) entering or leaving Great Britain,” according to an explanatory note accompanying the instrument.

 

This is from Bloomberg tonight on Twitter. 

There was been mention of 3 lorry parks in/around Dover and a massive one outside Hull. But Tories - especially in Kent- have been very vocal.

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8 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

With Britain less than four months away from its final split with the European Union, U.K. Housing Secretary Robert Jenrick gave himself sweeping powers to build truck parks across large parts of England to avoid chaotic queues at ports.

 
 

The government will be able to start construction in 29 different council areas without the approval of local officials, according to a statutory instrument laid before Parliament on Thursday. The areas included stretch from Devon and Somerset to Warwickshire and Suffolk.

 
 

The government has already started constructing holding facilities for lorries in Kent, which will be used to park goods vehicles which don’t have the correct paperwork to enter the EU. The holding pens are a key part of Britain’s plans to avoid border delays from Jan. 1, when full customs controls will be imposed on goods traveling from the U.K. whether or not it reaches a trade deal with the bloc.

 
 

“This Order grants temporary planning permission for development consisting of the use of land for the stationing and processing of vehicles (particularly goods vehicles) entering or leaving Great Britain,” according to an explanatory note accompanying the instrument.

 

This is from Bloomberg tonight on Twitter. 

There was been mention of 3 lorry parks in/around Dover and a massive one outside Hull. But Tories - especially in Kent- have been very vocal.

 

"Easiest trade deal in history"

 

:pleasingao:

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2 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

"Easiest trade deal in history"

 

:pleasingao:

Also big storm brewing on food labelling - food manufacturers have apparently said the deadline was 1st august to start on this. No advice from GOVErnment and now major concerns about being ready for January 2021 with major worries about UK food to NI. Allegedly demands for a meeting with Gove, Sunak & others was turned down flat. 

 

"All the cards" etc, etc. 

 

 

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You'd think what has happened with covid, would make all involved, a little more civil and forgiving. 

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The Mighty Thor
10 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Also big storm brewing on food labelling - food manufacturers have apparently said the deadline was 1st august to start on this. No advice from GOVErnment and now major concerns about being ready for January 2021 with major worries about UK food to NI. Allegedly demands for a meeting with Gove, Sunak & others was turned down flat. 

 

"All the cards" etc, etc. 

 

 

Their abysmal handling of the coronavirus pandemic has been an absolute godsend for them. No one is even thinking about Brexit and they can hide all the shenanigans under emergency powers legislation. 

 

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2 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Their abysmal handling of the coronavirus pandemic has been an absolute godsend for them. No one is even thinking about Brexit and they can hide all the shenanigans under emergency powers legislation. 

 

Quite.

More so in this particular instance given there are a lot of  Tory MPs in very nice constituencies in the S & S  west of England who are about to have lorry parks dumped on their doorsteps. And no one is saying a word for fear of being booted out of the party for disloyalty. 

Overall, as we all knew would happen , the "negotiations" have been a total disaster.

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4 hours ago, ri Alban said:

So what did fluffy guarantee the USA on trade. GM crops and chlorine chicken. Top secret is it? 

Shitloads of medicine deals too I imagine.

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Francis Albert
On 26/08/2020 at 19:30, The Mighty Thor said:

What?

You mean they're not taking heed of the Mail & Express headlines telling everyone the EU are forcing us into a no deal exit?

 

 

Barnier has conceded that the UK can have sovereignty over its territorial waters. Like Norway and Iceland. Except that in the case of the UK the fish in UK's waters is another matter and it doesn't apply to the fish. Unlike Norway and Iceland.

I am sure there are faults on both sides but the idea that a no deal Brexit would be all down to the UK is just a continuation of the Brexit debate and Project Fear.

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Francis Albert
On 28/08/2020 at 16:50, Lone Striker said:

If honest democracy is to survive as the gold standard for governing  a country, surely there has to be some kind of independant inquiry into how a referendum campaign where the main group advocating the change proposition convinced the majority to vote for it on the basis of  emotion  & dubious economic "facts" - most of which turned out to be  undeliverable due to the simple truth that every aspect of the UK's withdrawal from the EU had to be negotiated, and was never in the gift of the UK alone to dictate.    

 

As things look currently, the Trade negotiations are falling apart with both side seemingly content to walk away.  It could be a game of last minute poker - who knows -  but the Boris government has an air of  incompetence and crisis about it now, with Cummings lurking in the back seat operating the satnav.    If there is no trade deal whatsoever, the electorate will have been utterly duped ..... lied to...... and any of us with half a brain are unlikely to fall for spin such as "EU intransigence shows we're better out of it".

 

How would the electorate react ?   Riots in the street ?  Looting of pharmacies and bakeries ?  Or just shrug shoulders and prepare for the next election ?  

 

Perhaps a defeat for Trump in  November might provide a jolt of reality for Boris & Co ?

 

 

Will the same principle apply to Indyref2 if the "main group advocating the change" wins? 

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The Mighty Thor
11 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Barnier has conceded that the UK can have sovereignty over its territorial waters. Like Norway and Iceland. Except that in the case of the UK the fish in UK's waters is another matter and it doesn't apply to the fish. Unlike Norway and Iceland.

I am sure there are faults on both sides but the idea that a no deal Brexit would be all down to the UK is just a continuation of the Brexit debate and Project Fear.

Oh we're well past project fear, that stopped on 31st Jan 2020. 

It's all happening now in real time, project reality if you like. 

The fishing rights thing is a total red herring, its like taking back control of our borders, it plays well with the support but in reality means nothing.

A no deal Brexit is definitely all down to the UK government I'm afraid, it has determined the negotiation stance taken and it is about to come to fruition, totally under the radar against a backdrop of the coronavirus clown show. 

By the time it impacts the answer from Dom will be 'its what you voted for'

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Francis Albert
5 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Oh we're well past project fear, that stopped on 31st Jan 2020. 

It's all happening now in real time, project reality if you like. 

The fishing rights thing is a total red herring, its like taking back control of our borders, it plays well with the support but in reality means nothing.

A no deal Brexit is definitely all down to the UK government I'm afraid, it has determined the negotiation stance taken and it is about to come to fruition, totally under the radar against a backdrop of the coronavirus clown show. 

By the time it impacts the answer from Dom will be 'its what you voted for'

Why if fishing rights are a total red herring  is the EU determined not to relinquish them and not grant an independent UK the same rights as Norway and Iceland to name but two?

 

And the totally unrelated Coronavirus recession is now dragged into the equation by Remainers for some reason.

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1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

Barnier has conceded that the UK can have sovereignty over its territorial waters. Like Norway and Iceland. Except that in the case of the UK the fish in UK's waters is another matter and it doesn't apply to the fish. Unlike Norway and Iceland.

I am sure there are faults on both sides but the idea that a no deal Brexit would be all down to the UK is just a continuation of the Brexit debate and Project Fear.

Nothing to do with "project fear"  especially given all remainers have been purged from government. This is all on the government, especially the ERG. They said it would be easy, Germans would be queueing up to sell us cars (weirdly, Merkel now refusing to even discuss the matter at the next EU conference, so that doesn't fit with the desired narrative).

What's happening now is the long predicted consequences of Leaver cakeism.

 

PS I know you won't - but you can see Barnier's latest communications on Youtube - he sets out quite clearly what the UK has been up to and why the EU will not back down. Now I'm not saying you should believe Barnier (you won't) but there's only one side publishing any meaningful information on the "negotiations" and it isn't the UK govt. 

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3 hours ago, jim747 said:

Shitloads of medicine deals too I imagine.

:spoton:And the USA will take the SG to court at everyturn. They've more money than the SG anaw. 

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Francis Albert
1 hour ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Nothing to do with "project fear"  especially given all remainers have been purged from government. This is all on the government, especially the ERG. They said it would be easy, Germans would be queueing up to sell us cars (weirdly, Merkel now refusing to even discuss the matter at the next EU conference, so that doesn't fit with the desired narrative).

What's happening now is the long predicted consequences of Leaver cakeism.

 

PS I know you won't - but you can see Barnier's latest communications on Youtube - he sets out quite clearly what the UK has been up to and why the EU will not back down. Now I'm not saying you should believe Barnier (you won't) but there's only one side publishing any meaningful information on the "negotiations" and it isn't the UK govt. 

I read Barnier's views from a range of sources from the ultra remain Guardian to the opposite end of the spectrum. Perhaps his YouTube communications are more objective reports but I doubt it.

Whatever your view of the EU its fisheries policy can hardly be claimed as a success. Barnier claims fish in UK waters is a common resource. There isn't much resource left in other EU waters thanks to  disastrous overfishing.

The current EU position will continue the trend and extend it to UK waters as Danish and other factory ships do their worst. Someone said fishing rights was a red herring. On current trends there soon won't be any herring of any colour in UK or other EU waters.

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2 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

I read Barnier's views from a range of sources from the ultra remain Guardian to the opposite end of the spectrum. Perhaps his YouTube communications are more objective reports but I doubt it.

Whatever your view of the EU its fisheries policy can hardly be claimed as a success. Barnier claims fish in UK waters is a common resource. There isn't much resource left in other EU waters thanks to  disastrous overfishing.

The current EU position will continue the trend and extend it to UK waters as Danish and other factory ships do their worst. Someone said fishing rights was a red herring. On current trends there soon won't be any herring of any colour in UK or other EU waters.

There's nothing like an open/enquiring  mind.

Fish - it's virtually zero in economic terms  and a total distraction from the big issues. The emphasis placed on fish/fishing  by brexiters is embarrassing. It must be part of that "ruling the waves" mentality. 

 

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7 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

There's nothing like an open/enquiring  mind.

Fish - it's virtually zero in economic terms  and a total distraction from the big issues. The emphasis placed on fish/fishing  by brexiters is embarrassing. It must be part of that "ruling the waves" mentality. 

 

You think the decimation of fish stocks is a minor issue ?

As for your last sentence what a crock of usual guff.

On 28/08/2020 at 17:16, Cade said:

They'll just blame the brown people and bash on 

 

Sometimes you post some great stuff.

Then theres these one liners.

 

 

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The Real Maroonblood
27 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

There's nothing like an open/enquiring  mind.

Fish - it's virtually zero in economic terms  and a total distraction from the big issues. The emphasis placed on fish/fishing  by brexiters is embarrassing. It must be part of that "ruling the waves" mentality. 

 

:spoton:

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Francis Albert
56 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

There's nothing like an open/enquiring  mind.

Fish - it's virtually zero in economic terms  and a total distraction from the big issues. The emphasis placed on fish/fishing  by brexiters is embarrassing. It must be part of that "ruling the waves" mentality. 

 

So why is it such a big red line for Barnier and the EU? It is not just the UK that has elevated it to a big and decisive issue. But for remainers the EU is always in the right and the UK position however ( as in this case) eminently reasonable  is "embarrassing".

 

And of course Norway and Iceland and almost every country in the world with a fishing industry and still some fish has a "ruling the waves" mentality.

Edited by Francis Albert
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Francis Albert
47 minutes ago, jake said:

You think the decimation of fish stocks is a minor issue ?

As for your last sentence what a crock of usual guff.

 

Sometimes you post some great stuff.

Then theres these one liners.

 

 

Fishing stocks under the EU fisheries policy have been much worse than decimated. A mere 10% reduction would have been wonderful. 

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God it's so hard not to shout 'I told you so'

 

Still why worry Boris and all those who voted to leave assure us there is a plan that will lead us all to the promised land ignoring all the facts that seem to pop up telling us it wont be quite what you thought .

 

To make matters worse in a year where the focus was to have been on discussions re leaving the Covid situation has come along and blown any plans we might have had out the water but instead of just asking for more time in these circumstances the idiots running the country have nothing in mind but to leave..not leave with a deal or even a fair deal but just leave and that shows them up for what they truly are...clearly not people who have the interests of the country at heart

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1 hour ago, jake said:

You think the decimation of fish stocks is a minor issue ?

As for your last sentence what a crock of usual guff.

 

 

 

 

Just because you totally misread my post , don't come up with this ad hominem stuff. 

In any case, UK waters were fished to the brink of extinction by UK fishermen so don't suggest this was/is an EU problem. 

"usual guff"-  Why is "fish" SO important ? It generates  a negligible amount to the UK economy - why , say, not car manufacturing ? Why ALWAYS fish ? 

 

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Captain Canada

Some of the press have started cranking up the food shortages narrative. I've no idea if it will happen or not due to a No Deal Brexit but as we saw in March, it won't take much for people to start panic buying and creating shortages through their actions anyway. 

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26 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Just because you totally misread my post , don't come up with this ad hominem stuff. 

In any case, UK waters were fished to the brink of extinction by UK fishermen so don't suggest this was/is an EU problem. 

"usual guff"-  Why is "fish" SO important ? It generates  a negligible amount to the UK economy - why , say, not car manufacturing ? Why ALWAYS fish ? 

 

A bit harsh, although I see your point of view.  Regardless of the relatively  low contribution to the UK economy, fish is a key "good food" source for humans .... and the industry in the UK still supports thousands of jobs in some way.

 

Post-Thatcher, we've become conditioned to accepting that the place of manufacture/production of anything is pretty much irrelevant so long as there's a supply chain which allows us to purchase it locally (or  online), and the end price is affordable to most folk.   Cars are an example - loads of makes available to buy from your local Arnold Clark, Evans Halshaw etc  ....... we don't care where they were manufactured or how much pollution their transport from A to B created.      You could argue that fish is similar - so long as our local chippie and supermarket can still get hold of them, who cares which nationality of boat caught them.-

 

As you say, the UK fishing industry is being elevated by the  Brexiteer politicians - maybe for some nationalist flag-waving, maybe as a bargaining chip, maybe because the Conservatives won several fishing town seats at the last election.   One day we might get to hear the true story.

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8 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Will the same principle apply to Indyref2 if the "main group advocating the change" wins? 

You may very well think that ..... I couldn't possibly comment.

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Francis Albert
57 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Just because you totally misread my post , don't come up with this ad hominem stuff. 

In any case, UK waters were fished to the brink of extinction by UK fishermen so don't suggest this was/is an EU problem. 

"usual guff"-  Why is "fish" SO important ? It generates  a negligible amount to the UK economy - why , say, not car manufacturing ? Why ALWAYS fish ? 

 

As asked before why is fish such a critical red line for the EU and Barnier? Why should  UK fish be a "common resource" after UK leaves the EU? The UK has no intention of denying access to UK waters and as you suggest the UK industry is so run down that it will still need EU boats to land much of  UK fish. Why should UK outside the EU not control quotas for UK fish? Like Norway and Iceland and almost every other nation?  How is that about "ruling the waves"?

 

And while UK fishermen may have depleted UK waters fish they did so much less comprehensively than every other nation in the EU with a fishing industry.

 

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Weakened Offender
On 21/07/2020 at 21:07, The Mighty Thor said:

We're beyond project fear Jake. We're out. Its done. The Ashford lorry Park is a reality to mitigate the import/export documentation that UK Gov say will be required and the delays and queues that this will cause at the cross channel points of Dover and euro tunnel Ashford. 

There will be lots more of these things that were definitely not going to happen which will now definitely happen as we exit on 31/12.

 

I'm not sure how familiar you are with Jake's posting history but I'm sorry to inform you that your factual, knowledgeable contributions are wasted on him. He's an absolute trumpet. 

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1 hour ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Just because you totally misread my post , don't come up with this ad hominem stuff. 

In any case, UK waters were fished to the brink of extinction by UK fishermen so don't suggest this was/is an EU problem. 

"usual guff"-  Why is "fish" SO important ? It generates  a negligible amount to the UK economy - why , say, not car manufacturing ? Why ALWAYS fish ? 

 

Holy fish .

Let's make more cars.

 

Have fun chewing a steering wheel.

😂

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The Real Maroonblood
19 minutes ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

I'm not sure how familiar you are with Jake's posting history but I'm sorry to inform you that your factual, knowledgeable contributions are wasted on him. He's an absolute trumpet. 

:rofl:

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1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

As asked before why is fish such a critical red line for the EU and Barnier? Why should  UK fish be a "common resource" after UK leaves the EU? The UK has no intention of denying access to UK waters and as you suggest the UK industry is so run down that it will still need EU boats to land much of  UK fish. Why should UK outside the EU not control quotas for UK fish? Like Norway and Iceland and almost every other nation?  How is that about "ruling the waves"?

 

And while UK fishermen may have depleted UK waters fish they did so much less comprehensively than every other nation in the EU with a fishing industry.

 

Fish is of little economic consequence in any macro sense. However it’s an important political totem for brexiteers. 

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Francis Albert
Just now, davemclaren said:

Fish is of little economic consequence in any macro sense. However it’s an important political totem for brexiteers. 

And Barnier and the EU apparently.

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  • davemclaren changed the title to Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

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