Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[ri Alban]

1 hour ago, gjcc said:

   True. I don’t think I know anyone that intend to vote SNP in an independent Scotland. Likely that the voters will return to more traditional parties. 

Exactly! Tho I might start my own.

[Boris]

36 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

I have worked abroad but only for about 18 months in Germany and they aren’t a small country so not really a comparison! It’s more a perception I will admit that. For example some best friends of mine live in Denmark and on paper they have a great country but the tax levels are not something that would ever be agreed to here so I don’t believe that or even a Scandinavian model would be accepted.  I also have family all across Spain and Portugal and both counties have been on their knees for years.  

 

Scandinavian tax is relative, isn't it?  Higher wages but higher taxes.  Arguably better public services?  But we have been brainwashed by Thatcherite subversions of government, tax and public expenditure that I would agree it would be hard to change those attitudes.  So we may as well keep voting for the same again and again and again...

 

36 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

 

The point is I don’t know for certain but I also don’t see or hear  of many countries who have it so much better then we do in Scotland in regards to standards of living and economic models.  For me to understand The independence rationale better it would be good to have a couple of examples where people could say that would be our aspiration.

 

So in other words, if it ain't broke, don't fix it?  Problem is that to many people, it is broken.  (food banks, universal credit, in work poverty etc etc)

 

36 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

 

maybe one would be New Zealand.  They seem to have a lot right.   But, and this is another can of worms, they are not bound by things such as the Euro or EU so are truly independent.... 

 

P.s.  just thought I have a mate who lives in Geneva and he thinks the Swiss really have their shit together.  Again though would Scottish people accept that kind of economy and economic model, i don’t think so.  Maybe I’m wrong on that. 

 

Interesting you mention Switzerland - a country like Norway who have arrangements with the EU to access the single market and customs union yet that's not Brexit!

[jack D and coke]

37 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

I have worked abroad but only for about 18 months in Germany and they aren’t a small country so not really a comparison! It’s more a perception I will admit that. For example some best friends of mine live in Denmark and on paper they have a great country but the tax levels are not something that would ever be agreed to here so I don’t believe that or even a Scandinavian model would be accepted.  I also have family all across Spain and Portugal and both counties have been on their knees for years.  

 

The point is I don’t know for certain but I also don’t see or hear  of many countries who have it so much better then we do in Scotland in regards to standards of living and economic models.  For me to understand The independence rationale better it would be good to have a couple of examples where people could say that would be our aspiration.

 

maybe one would be New Zealand.  They seem to have a lot right.   But, and this is another can of worms, they are not bound by things such as the Euro or EU so are truly independent.... 

 

P.s.  just thought I have a mate who lives in Geneva and he thinks the Swiss really have their shit together.  Again though would Scottish people accept that kind of economy and economic model, i don’t think so.  Maybe I’m wrong on that. 

Cool cheers just wondered. 
Ive worked abroad a bit too most notably ROI for a couple of years and they have done brilliantly out of the euro and the EU. Granted they were practically 3rd world in the 70’s but the levels of investment and the way Ireland has benefitted has been amazing. They’ll benefit even more if we do actually brexit too imo. 
I feel Scotland could make a good fist of it and we aren’t doing as well as we could be. 
Opinions eh lol. 

[Don Dan]

“Ms Kuenssberg said on Twitter: “Hear Government business for next week does not at the moment contain either an attempt to bring back the Brexit legislation, or a motion to try to force an election.

“Feels like Government unlikely to make move on either until EU gives firm decision on the extension.”

Jacob Rees Mogg confirmed the Government had not tabled the Brexit Bill for debate.

In a statement the House of Commons leader set out parliamentary business for next week, which did not include the Withdrawal Agreement Bill.”

 

”Mr Rees-Mogg also did not mention any attempt to ask Parliament to agree to an early election, while the statement added the Commons will not sit on Friday November 1 - the day after the UK is due to leave the EU.”

 

 

Edited October 24, 2019 by Dannie Boy

[gjcc]

[Mikey1874]

Lib Dems remembering what they agreed and committed to in Coalition Government.

 

Honourable. 

[RobboM]

Boris avoiding discussion on his own Brexit bill.
Boris avoiding scrutiny before the House of Commons Liaison Committee

You'd almost think he is trying to hide something

[Mikey1874]

 

[Mikey1874]

Bah humbug

 

 

[Don Dan]

  This changes quicker than the Scottish weather. 

[Mikey1874]

 

[Don Dan]

9 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Can’t see Corbyn agreeing to this blackmail letter. 

 

[Mikey1874]

19 minutes ago, Barack said:

Nativity plays are shite. Bin them. The kids have all Christmas Day to get over it.

 

 

 

I think the nativity parties are safe.

[The Real Maroonblood]

21 minutes ago, Barack said:

Nativity plays are shite. Bin them. The kids have all Christmas Day to get over it.

 

 

[hughesie27]

Parliament has just spent the last hour voting on 3 different issues. Something which could have been achieved electronically, as is the case in many parliaments, in about 10 minutes.

 

 

[Mikey1874]

Queens Speech approved.

 

So no need for an election. 

[I P Knightley]

24 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

I hope that JC tells him to ram his letter up his hoop.

[dobmisterdobster]

Corbyn promised an election once an extension was secured.

If he goes back on his word he should get the Gordon Brown treatment.

[Mikey1874]

6 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said:

Corbyn promised an election once an extension was secured.

If he goes back on his word he should get the Gordon Brown treatment.

 

Labour wants to win an election.

 

It can say that the Brexit legislation must be amended first to rule out No Deal in Dec 2020.

 

No Deal is what Labour said it wanted to stop. Why should they do what Liar BoJo wants.

[Mikey1874]

Effectively power is with EU now.

 

An extension till end Nov means it's all up in the air. 

[Cade]

We don't need an election to change government.

A simple motion of no-confidence would remove Boris and give someone else a chance to form a unity government.

 

 

[Mikey1874]

Meanwhile this is the actual position. All bets are off now.

 

 

[Mikey1874]

1 minute ago, Cade said:

We don't need an election to change government.

A simple motion of no-confidence would remove Boris and give someone else a chance to form a unity government.

 

 

 

I think passing the Queens Speech could rebound on them. 

 

Could all kick off now. Positions are hardening. 

[Victorian]

It's obviously a strategy to engineer an election majority.     Either to get the Brexit 'deal' through parliament before the election and campaign on a 'we won your Brexit' ticket.    Or to delay the 'deal' getting through until after the election and campaign on a 'only we can prevent your Brexit being stolen' ticket.

 

First scenario would seem to be better for the Tories in terms of neutralising the Brexit Party.    The second scenario seems likely to cause the BP to campaign at full throttle to protect Brexit and to maximise Brexit (no deal).

Edited October 24, 2019 by Victorian

[dobmisterdobster]

11 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Labour wants to win an election.

 

It can say that the Brexit legislation must be amended first to rule out No Deal in Dec 2020.

 

No Deal is what Labour said it wanted to stop. Why should they do what Liar BoJo wants.

They won't.

They will likely lose 40+ MPs

2019 has been a bad year for them.

Their Brexit position has lost them a lot of support.

Their party conference was derided by voters.

[Mikey1874]

1 minute ago, dobmisterdobster said:

They won't.

They will likely lose 40+ MPs

2019 has been a bad year for them.

Their Brexit position has lost them a lot of support.

Their party conference was derided by voters.

 

Time will tell.

 

Lots of factors in how an election plays out.

 

Brexit Party could destroy Tories for example. 

[RobboM]

If the timetable and General Election are agreed and if the process moves forward on the Withdrawal Agreement Bill and there are any amendments (such as Customs Union , Referendum or ruling out No Deal) does anyone trust Boris NOT to withdraw the Bill?

[Costanza]

Are we having yet another General Election because the last one didn't give the right result?

[Captain Sausage]

Johnson has outplayed Corbyn here. 
 

It’s infuriating that the absolute cretin who inhabits 10 Downing Street is able to outmanoeuvre the leader of the opposition given the circumstances. 
 

Labour should be absolutely mopping up given the shambles of a Tory party, but the hijacking of Labour by Momentum and refusal to shift back towards the centre is costing them big time. 
 

Whether you like him or not, Corbyn is not going to be prime minister. The electorate does not like him. 

[Unknown user]

1 hour ago, dobmisterdobster said:

Corbyn promised an election once an extension was secured.

If he goes back on his word he should get the Gordon Brown treatment.

 

Cant help wondering if you'll ever hold the tories to these standards.

 

 

[gjcc]

12 minutes ago, Costanza said:

Are we having yet another General Election because the last one didn't give the right result?

I know right?! The people had their vote in June 2017. The politicians should respect that vote. 

[IMac]

41 minutes ago, gjcc said:

I know right?! The people had their vote in June 2017. The politicians should respect that vote. 

Will of the people!

[Justin Z]

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

Cant help wondering if you'll ever hold the tories to these standards.

 

Oh I can help it--the answer is plain.

[frankblack]

Whatever the result in the election, I think this shitshow is evidence that we need a law to give the government the power to call a general election if they lose their majority rather than allow this limbo to go on indefinitely.

[SectionDJambo]

7 minutes ago, frankblack said:

Whatever the result in the election, I think this shitshow is evidence that we need a law to give the government the power to call a general election if they lose their majority rather than allow this limbo to go on indefinitely.

I’ve heard a few politicians say, recently, that it was a mistake to change the law to the current arrangement. It was done to prevent a government calling an election very early, whilst popular, with the sole intention of giving themselves a good chance of extending their time in power.

This has worked the other way round, where a government that thinks it could remove the shackles of a hung parliament, cannot call an election because the opposition have reasons not to want to have one.

Having said that, if the opposition benches trusted Johnson and Cummings to not use the election gap in parliament to allow the UK to leave the EU without a deal, they would probably have agreed to it by now.

[frankblack]

2 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

I’ve heard a few politicians say, recently, that it was a mistake to change the law to the current arrangement. It was done to prevent a government calling an election very early, whilst popular, with the sole intention of giving themselves a good chance of extending their time in power.

This has worked the other way round, where a government that thinks it could remove the shackles of a hung parliament, cannot call an election because the opposition have reasons not to want to have one.

Having said that, if the opposition benches trusted Johnson and Cummings to not use the election gap in parliament to allow the UK to leave the EU without a deal, they would probably have agreed to it by now.

 

I don't agree with your argument.  I think Corbyn and co are running scared because they are unelectable, so want to try and pull the strings on a puppet government.

[Costanza]

1 hour ago, gjcc said:

I know right?! The people had their vote in June 2017. The politicians should respect that vote. 

It's the sheer hypocrisy. He accuses Corbyn of being scared to face the public in a general election but has cancelled 3 times to be scrutinised by a Commons Liaison committee as he needs time to focus on Brexit but 3 days for parliament to scrutinise the Withdrawal Bill is absolutely fine.

[SectionDJambo]

13 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

I don't agree with your argument.  I think Corbyn and co are running scared because they are unelectable, so want to try and pull the strings on a puppet government.

You could very well be right. Who knows what is going on behind closed doors. However, the current lack of trust in much of what Johnston says, is giving Corbyn an excuse not to go for an election that he has been shouting about for a long while.

Personally, I don't trust either of them to do what is best for the UK, ahead of personal interest.

[Costanza]

"No Government is better than a Bad Government"

(not my line sadly as it's a belter)

 

 

[shaun.lawson]

No surprise whatsoever, but boy oh boy.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/oct/24/majority-of-voters-think-violence-against-mps-is-price-worth-paying-for-brexit

 

"Most leave voters who took part... thought violence towards MPs was a “price worth paying” for Brexit to be delivered – 71% in England, 60% in Scotland and 70% in Wales...

 

The majority of remain voters felt that potential violence was worth it if it meant we would stay in the EU – 58% in England, 53% in Scotland and 56% in Wales...

 

Most people who responded to the survey also thought that violence towards MPs and violent protests in which people are “badly injured” were likely to occur if and when Brexit happens...

 

Many were also willing to see the union change substantially if it meant they would get their own way on Brexit. Among leave voters, 74% in England, the same percentage in Wales and 59% in Scotland believed the breakup of the UK would be worth it to take back control through delivering Brexit..."

Edited October 24, 2019 by shaun.lawson

[frankblack]

Just now, shaun.lawson said:

No surprise whatsoever, but boy oh boy.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/oct/24/majority-of-voters-think-violence-against-mps-is-price-worth-paying-for-brexit

 

I think you saw evidence of this outside parliament on Saturday when MPs needed police escorts to leave in safety after being targetted by protesters.

[shaun.lawson]

2 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

I think you saw evidence of this outside parliament on Saturday when MPs needed police escorts to leave in safety after being targetted by protesters.

 

Yep.

[redjambo]

11 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

No surprise whatsoever, but boy oh boy.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/oct/24/majority-of-voters-think-violence-against-mps-is-price-worth-paying-for-brexit

 

Wow. That is a sad state of affairs. The only consolation, although a small one, is that we Scots appear to be less willing to support violence.

[frankblack]

1 minute ago, redjambo said:

 

Wow. That is a sad state of affairs. The only consolation, although a small one, is that we Scots appear to be less willing to support violence.

 

I think it could get ugly from both sides during any GE when Independence is the primary factor.

[redjambo]

3 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

I think it could get ugly from both sides during any GE when Independence is the primary factor.

 

I'm not so sure about that, but I'm getting a niggling feeling that society is starting to get "broken". Perhaps I'm just getting old.

[Boris]

1 hour ago, frankblack said:

Whatever the result in the election, I think this shitshow is evidence that we need a law to give the government the power to call a general election if they lose their majority rather than allow this limbo to go on indefinitely.

This govt never had a majority to lose in the first place!

[Victorian]

There are some proper psychos around but I don't buy into those figures for a second.    That's not a true representation.     Think about it.     It's absolutely abnormal to consider or justify physical violence against others.   Those figures are impossible.     Go into a large office building containing 1000 workers and set them the same polling questions.     Would you see even a quarter of those numbers?    No.

[gjcc]

3 minutes ago, Victorian said:

There are some proper psychos around but I don't buy into those figures for a second.    That's not a true representation.     Think about it.     It's absolutely abnormal to consider or justify physical violence against others.   Those figures are impossible.     Go into a large office building containing 1000 workers and set them the same polling questions.     Would you see even a quarter of those numbers?    No.

I disagree. Want a fight about it? 😡

[jack D and coke]

16 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Wow. That is a sad state of affairs. The only consolation, although a small one, is that we Scots appear to be less willing to support violence.

Scots Indy supporters are accused of all sorts of nastiness and evil nazi English hating etc etc yet the worst that’s ever happened was that twat Murphy was egged.  
It’s the Brit nats who are for the watching. Always has been. 

[Unknown user]

3 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Scots Indy supporters are accused of all sorts of nastiness and evil nazi English hating etc etc yet the worst that’s ever happened was that twat Murphy was egged.  
It’s the Brit nats who are for the watching. Always has been. 

 

Guy I know went to school with Murphy, says he was an utter prick back then too.