Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

No, it doesn't. That you think it does is because of the media. In the meantime, if it's your belief that a Palestinian whose family was either murdered or displaced by Israel should not be allowed to call that "racist" and is "antisemitic" if they do, do tell. Because that's the consequence of the IHRA examples.

 

 

Labour's policy on Brexit has essentially remained the same since September 2018, when it was agreed at Party Conference. That you don't know what it is is because of the media. That policy was:

 

- Vote May's deal down

- Seek a general election

- If a general election could not be achieved, leave all options open

- And avoid No Deal at all costs

 

So they voted May's deal down. They failed with the No Confidence Vote. Leaving all options open turned into the entirely sensible "we'll seek a deal but we'll put it to the public alongside Remain in a referendum". And they've continued to prevent No Deal at all costs. 

 

I know you'll sit there laughing at me blaming the media, but if so, you're clearly suffering from amnesia.

 

1. What was Ed Miliband's treatment by the media?

2. What was Gordon Brown's treatment by the media?

3. What was Neil Kinnock's treatment by the media?

4. What was Michael Foot's treatment by the media?

 

The one and only 'Labour' leader who received reasonable treatment only did so because he was bought and paid for by the media. Said 'Labour' leader's approach abandoned the poor and working class. Tremendous.

 

Rupert Murdoch bought The Times and Sunday Times in 1981. Since when, never, not once, has he ever got the result in any election or referendum which he specifically didn't want. If that doesn't tell you something about the real state of things in this Banana Republic, I've no idea what will.

 

Because of media lies about everything, each and every day, all the time, the esteemed British public has swallowed whole the following:

 

1. Labour, a political party in Western Europe, somehow caused a global financial crash

2. Labour "spent all the money" (memo to the public: sovereign states in charge of their own money supply cannot run out of money)

3. We have to "live within our means" (no country anywhere has done so in 400 years; the consequences of which have been nothing other than growth, progress, and development)

4. The reason Britain is losing money isn't bankers, fat cats or offshore accounts in the Bahamas - it's the poor, disabled, unemployed and immigrants

5. Welfare is a "lifestyle choice" (which it certainly is for private landlords, to whom much of the 'welfare' bill goes to)

6. Ed Miliband was a "danger to Britain" because he looked a bit odd eating a bacon sandwich

7. Britain faced a choice of "stability" with Cameron, or a "coalition of chaos" with Miliband

8. Britain is threatened by "swarms of migrants"

9. The reason Britain is in such a mess isn't the policies of its ever further right wing government. By some impossible miracle, it's the EU

10. Anyone wanting to come to Britain does so for our "generous benefits" (which are among the lowest in the whole of Europe)

11. Judges and MPs are "the enemies of the people"

12. We'll spend 350m on the NHS every week if we Brexit... despite Brexit meaning we lose money, lots of it

13. Turkey is going to join the EU (that every EU member state has a veto is apparently irrelevant)

14. Boris Johnson, Jacob Rees-Mogg and Nigel Farage are on the side of ordinary people

15. A small majority of a rigged franchise which ignored EU citizens and ignored young people represents "the will of the people"

16. Those people protesting against an existential threat to the planet and our entire species are "layabouts who just want to skip a day of school"

17. Non-existent "technological solutions" could somehow solve the problem of the Irish border

18. The protracted negotiations with the EU are all the EU's fault, for sticking with rules which apply to its entire membership, not breaking the rules for a country which is leaving

19. All those people below age 50 who've been priced out of the housing market forever at a time of wages being stagnant for over a decade and house prices skyrocketing for decades would easily be able to afford a deposit if they didn't eat "avocado toast"

20. Labour is "antisemitic". 

 

And many, many, many more. Funny how we'd "run out of money" when it came to schools, hospitals, not allowing disabled people to die in their droves... but the money was magically there when it came to bribing a bunch of bigots, bombing Syria and preparing for No Deal, huh?

 

Will Labour lose the election? Almost certainly, yes. The reason it will do so has rather less to do with Corbyn, rather more to do with its corrupt beyond imagination media and political class. Not to mention its ill-informed, nasty, callous, thick as bloody mince public. Which voted to set itself on fire to make a point - and apparently, wants to continue the same system which led to such despair in the first place. 

 

To hell with them. And to hell with Britain. The most corrupt country in the world - according to the leading expert on the mafia on the planet. The articles below detail what the British public believes about various issues. I'd be ashamed if I still lived somewhere whose people are so mindbogglingly ignorant about absolutely everything.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/british-public-wrong-about-nearly-everything-survey-shows-8697821.html

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/immigration-obesity-and-religion-11-charts-that-show-british-people-are-completely-wrong-about-a6757551.html

Shaun a fine political thesis. Reasonable arguments all of them. 

 

However a lot of people who would and should be 'natural' labour voters are not voting for them. 

 

To blame the media mafia is almost as simplistic as saying people can't think for themselves and swallow the msm pap you listed whole. It's not the case and you do a rump of the population a disservice. 

 

The world has moved on and Labour have gone backwards. That's the nub of it. 

 

 

 

 

[shaun.lawson]

GULP.

 

Spreadsheet attached. 

Brexit vote.ods

[Unknown user]

2 hours ago, kingantti1874 said:

this question wasn’t to me, but I’ll answer anyway.. they were the driving force behind Corbyn And his cronies and that is a bad thing.. dragged that party to far to the left..  extreme politics don’t work.. you have to find the middle ground 

 

It's hardly extreme, it's pretty much where labour have always been until new labour turned up to muddy the waters and sold their soul for a few years in power.

Our whole political spectrum has drifted right, so what used to be fairly right is now seen as centre, what was left is now seen as extreme.

 

There's absolutely no reason things like the railways can't be re nationalised, right now the re-nationalised Dutch train service makes millions from their own services, plus a pretty penny from ours!

 

Tax the rich, they'll still make money, they're going nowhere. Of course they'll say otherwise, they don't want taxed more, but plenty of countries treat the rich less favourably than we do.

 

The Tories and their tabloid press have done a wonderful job of convincing us that taking care of the general population above anything else is a mental lefty concept. 

Edited October 18, 2019 by Smithee

[The Real Maroonblood]

7 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

It's hardly extreme, it's pretty much where labour have always been until new labour turned up to muddy the waters and sold their soul for a few years in power.

Our whole political spectrum has drifted right, so what used to be fairly right is now seen as centre, what was left is now seen as extreme.

 

There's absolutely no reason things like the railways can't be re nationalised, right now the re-nationalised Dutch train service makes millions from their own services, plus a pretty penny from ours!

 

Tax the rich, they'll still make money, they're going nowhere. Of course they'll say otherwise, they don't want taxed more, but plenty of countries treat the rich less favourably than we do.

 

The Tories and their tabloid press have done a wonderful job of convincing us that taking care of the general population above anything else is a mental lefty concept. 

Very good post.

[Cade]

Why do Tories keep saying that Boris has torn up the Backstop?

He's activated it and made it a central part of the deal!

 

So strictly speaking, I suppose he has removed it.

But only by agreeing to have it as the default approach.

[DETTY29]

50 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

It's hardly extreme, it's pretty much where labour have always been until new labour turned up to muddy the waters and sold their soul for a few years in power.

Our whole political spectrum has drifted right, so what used to be fairly right is now seen as centre, what was left is now seen as extreme.

 

There's absolutely no reason things like the railways can't be re nationalised, right now the re-nationalised Dutch train service makes millions from their own services, plus a pretty penny from ours!

 

Tax the rich, they'll still make money, they're going nowhere. Of course they'll say otherwise, they don't want taxed more, but plenty of countries treat the rich less favourably than we do.

 

The Tories and their tabloid press have done a wonderful job of convincing us that taking care of the general population above anything else is a mental lefty concept. 

And in America, the modern day right's view of socialist justice is that you are supportive of communism.

 

And Trump has taken 35-40% of the country with him.

 

 

Edited October 18, 2019 by DETTY29

[The Mighty Thor]

36 minutes ago, Cade said:

Why do Tories keep saying that Boris has torn up the Backstop?

He's activated it and made it a central part of the deal!

 

So strictly speaking, I suppose he has removed it.

But only by agreeing to have it as the default approach.

The backstop is now the front stop.

 

It's a much worse deal than treeezas 

[Pans Jambo]

2 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Yeah but yeah but, all the rich will leave and our glorious success of:

 

- Trebling the debt in a decade

 

- Presiding over wages which remain below 2008 levels

 

- Overseeing skyrocketing levels of homelessness

 

- Killing at least 130,000 people and likely far more

 

- Pricing young people out of the housing market forever

 

- Being condemned, twice, by the United Nations, for our treatment of the poor and the disabled

 

- Turning ourselves into an international laughing stock for over 3 years

 

Will stop! 

 

It's Stockholm Syndrome, pure and simple. That's how brainwashed so many people are. But then, in a nation which is so dumb, its people seriously believe that "running a country is like running a household budget" (except when it comes to investing in their businesses or taking out their mortgages, of course), it's no surprise.

Bang on the money!

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

According to Merkel, an extension is unavoidable, if MPs don't back this deal.

 

Good.

[DETTY29]

2 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

GULP.

 

Spreadsheet attached. 

Brexit vote.ods 11.13 kB · 5 downloads

Promises of knighthoods, House of Lords of full on bung should swing it in the government's favour.

[Boris]

Loving how the DUP are being treated so contemptuously at this point in time.

 

Equally loving how it highlights what the Tories really think of the Union i.e. not that much.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

37 minutes ago, Boris said:

Loving how the DUP are being treated so contemptuously at this point in time.

 

Equally loving how it highlights what the Tories really think of the Union i.e. not that much.

 

TBF the flat-earthers have never ever really had many friends.

[shaun.lawson]

1 hour ago, Boris said:

Loving how the DUP are being treated so contemptuously at this point in time.

 

Equally loving how it highlights what the Tories really think of the Union i.e. not that much.

 

It really is high time they were consigned to England only (and if they had it their way, south-east England only). Pity the poor *******s who'll have to deal with that though.

[shaun.lawson]

1 minute ago, Lord BJ said:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/oct/18/boris-johnson-launches-frantic-sales-pitch-of-brexit-deal-ahead-of-commons-vote-politics-live

 

Some suggestions that this is a deal to get a no deal!

 

Yep. Which is why the ERG are suddenly all smiles. And is why it must be rejected, or else.

[manaliveits105]

Win win forBoris deal gets approved or landslide election 

[Cade]

Boris to Labour: You have to vote for my deal so we can leave with a deal.

Boris to ERG: You have to vote for my deal so we can leave with no deal.

 

Again, Boris is lying to at least one side.

[RobboM]

37 minutes ago, manaliveits105 said:

Win win forBoris deal gets approved or landslide election 

If Boris's deal is rejected in Parlaiment and he is taken to a General Election on his deal then the Brexit Party will be very likely standing against them and diluting the Brexiteer vote.  I think a GE under these circumstances is more likely a hung rather than landslide result.

[The Real Maroonblood]

2 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

Win win forBoris deal gets approved or landslide election 

[Cade]

Amendment time in Westminster!

 

So far we have:

One to force Boris to ask for an extension immediately.

Government motion to approve no-deal if Boris' deal fails.

One to add a confirmatory referendum even if Boris' deal passes.

 

Expect a few others to be tabled overnight.

[ri Alban]

Matt Hancock on QT.  The man's a balloon.

[Footballfirst]

James Doleman @jamesdoleman 50s

Breaking, Scottish Court of Session rejects campaigners bid to declare Boris Johnson's Brexit deal unlawful.

 

Written judgement.

https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/docs/default-source/cos-general-docs/pdf-docs-for-opinions/2019csoh80.pdf?sfvrsn=0

Edited October 18, 2019 by Footballfirst

[JackLadd]

I just hope that there is no extension and we're out. Shut up all these clowns who want to be in the EU without representation - like the nat crazies up here and Corbyn - or will never accept any referendum result they don't like. 

[ri Alban]

2 minutes ago, JackLadd said:

I just hope that there is no extension and we're out. Shut up all these clowns who want to be in the EU without representation - like the nat crazies up here and Corbyn - or will never accept any referendum result they don't like. 

What representation does Scotland have in the UK.  Brexiter clowns don't half talk shite.

[annushorribilis III]

28 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

Oliver Letwin is proposing an amendment to Bojo deal which means even if Bojo wins, that formal approval would be withheld until all the appropriate laws are passed and keeps the Benn bill in place. 
 

It basically prevents Bojo from pulling out negoiations and prevents a no deal. Which is still a possibility and some argue a likliehood if his original deal passed. 
 

 

 

It's more than a possibility and according to some is a deliberate,  planned outcome. The window set for getting a FTA with EU is ridiculously small and cannot be achieved according to some ex govt negotiators on Twitter. In which case , if no trade deal at end of transition period ., we crash out with no deal - which is why the ERG have apparently signed off on a deal that is worse than the one they've already rejected 3 times. They get the no - deal they so crave.

[dobmisterdobster]

4 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

What representation does Scotland have in the UK.  Brexiter clowns don't half talk shite.

59 members of parliament.

[ri Alban]

3 minutes ago, dobmisterdobster said:

59 members of parliament.

73 Meps

[JackLadd]

36 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

What representation does Scotland have in the UK.  Brexiter clowns don't half talk shite.

 

You have OVER representation in the UK. 62 nodding Nicola lapdogs in Holyrood and 35 clowns in Westminster doing a Farage in Brussels routine. Not to mentions the 400 councillors. 

Edited October 18, 2019 by JackLadd

[Cade]

The UK as a member of the EU has more power than Scotland does as a member of the UK.

Those are just plain facts.

 

 

[Cade]

Boris banging on about how his deal is great and how everybody should vote it through.

 

Despite the fact that it's a worse version of May's deal; a deal he voted against three times and resigned from the cabinet to do so.

And now having torn up some red lines and made other concessions to the EU he wants everybody to vote for it.

Some folk have short memories likes.

Edited October 18, 2019 by Cade

[Brighton Jambo]

15 minutes ago, Cade said:

Boris banging on about how his deal is great and how everybody should vote it through.

 

Despite the fact that it's a worse version of May's deal; a deal he voted against three times and resigned from the cabinet to do so.

And now having torn up some red lines and made other concessions to the EU he wants everybody to vote for it.

Some folk have short memories likes.

He voted for it the third time as he said he believed, reluctantly, it was he only way to get Brexit done.  

[jake]

26 minutes ago, Cade said:

Boris banging on about how his deal is great and how everybody should vote it through.

 

Despite the fact that it's a worse version of May's deal; a deal he voted against three times and resigned from the cabinet to do so.

And now having torn up some red lines and made other concessions to the EU he wants everybody to vote for it.

Some folk have short memories likes.

 

[Mikey1874]

Just a reminder. 

 

Speaker, John Bercow decides which amendments will be discussed (and voted on).  Not all will be.

 

Then when it comes to voting the amendments get voted on first. Any amendment that is successful is then added to as part of the main vote.

 

So the only way it's just the deal, yes or no is if all amendments lose the vote. But if say they vote for a Referendum the final vote comes to -  agree the deal with a Referendum. At that point it is possible the Government could vote against it's own deal. 

Edited October 18, 2019 by Mikey1874

[The Real Maroonblood]

2 hours ago, JackLadd said:

I just hope that there is no extension and we're out. Shut up all these clowns who want to be in the EU without representation - like the nat crazies up here and Corbyn - or will never accept any referendum result they don't like. 

[Unknown user]

4 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

 

Posters like jl are vital, without them how would you fully display how utterly ridiculous and unthinking the no deal stance is?

[The Real Maroonblood]

3 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Posters like jl are vital, without them how would you fully display how utterly ridiculous and unthinking the no deal stance is?

[gjcc]

7 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Posters like jl are vital, without them how would you fully display how utterly ridiculous and unthinking the no deal stance is?

and we’d lose half of Kickbacks emoji’s. 

[dobmisterdobster]

If remainers hate this deal that much, it must be good.

[Francis Albert]

3 hours ago, Cade said:

The UK as a member of the EU has more power than Scotland does as a member of the UK.

Those are just plain facts.

 

 

Mot such plain facts Scotland  has more power in many respects  as a member of the UK than the UK has in the EU. And Scotland voted to accept UK membership. 

[Konrad von Carstein]

19 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Mot such plain facts Scotland  has more power in many respects  as a member of the UK than the UK has in the EU. And Scotland voted to accept UK membership. 

Jesus Christ.

[Pans Jambo]

18 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Mot such plain facts Scotland  has more power in many respects  as a member of the UK than the UK has in the EU. And Scotland voted to accept UK membership. 

Scotland didnt, the Westminster sycophants and the white glove brigade did. 

[Old Hearts]

14 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Scotland didnt, the Westminster sycophants and the white glove brigade did. 

I have a feeling I am going to regret this......but.....white glove brigade??

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, Old Hearts said:

I have a feeling I am going to regret this......but.....white glove brigade??

 

Snooker referees and Michael Jackson

[Old Hearts]

Just now, Smithee said:

 

Snooker referees and Michael Jackson

🤣👍

[Francis Albert]

4 hours ago, annushorribilis III said:

It's more than a possibility and according to some is a deliberate,  planned outcome. The window set for getting a FTA with EU is ridiculously small and cannot be achieved according to some ex govt negotiators on Twitter. In which case , if no trade deal at end of transition period ., we crash out with no deal - which is why the ERG have apparently signed off on a deal that is worse than the one they've already rejected 3 times. They get the no - deal they so crave.

I don't suppose there is any chance the widow could be extended if there are still some loose ends? Good conspiracy theory though

[Francis Albert]

On 17/10/2019 at 12:59, JackLadd said:

Do the DUP actually know they share a land border with the EU? Thickest morons going. 

They know the UK shares a land border with the Republic of Ireland.

The DUP doesn''t share a land border with anyone. Nor really (assuming that is what you meant) does Northern Ireland. The current border is between the two independent nation states of the ROI and the UK. 

[Francis Albert]

18 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I don't suppose there is any chance the widow could be extended if there are still some loose ends? Good conspiracy theory though

Or even perhaps the window!

[Justin Z]

39 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Snooker referees and Michael Jackson

 

[Unknown user]

4 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

 

A touch of the OJs?

 

Is he doing a subtle 5-1 by the way?

Edited October 18, 2019 by Smithee

[Francis Albert]

1 hour ago, Pans Jambo said:

Scotland didnt, the Westminster sycophants and the white glove brigade did. 

You mean voters who didn't want independence. How dare they. How very dare they!

[Francis Albert]

53 minutes ago, Old Hearts said:

I have a feeling I am going to regret this......but.....white glove brigade??

Orangemen I think. They are apparently one of the many in Scotland whose votes don't count. 

 

No problem with the votes of  supporters of IRA terrorism though because they hate the English too.

Edited October 18, 2019 by Francis Albert