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Brexit Negotiations

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All roads lead to Gorgie
1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

David Cameron really is an idiot. 

It is a collective thing in his party to be fair! 

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Mikey1874

The Government submission on what it would do if case goes against them. People are saying it says Government may prorogue Parliament again. 

 

 

Edited by Mikey1874

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DETTY29
3 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

David Cameron really is an idiot. 

Is he?

 

Might just push the next pro indy campign to have to really consider deciding not having the monarchy and split the Yes vote.

 

However QE dies and Charles is King with Camilla Queen at next Indy Referendum then it's probably an easier to leave the monarchy behind.

 

Wills and Kate, maybe not so.

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Cade

Brexit Sec telling the EU to "take a risk on the Irish border"

 

That's all we have.

 

"Give it a go, see what happens, who cares about peace treaties anyhow?"

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DETTY29
43 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

The Government submission on what it would do if case goes against them. People are saying it says Government may prorogue Parliament again. 

 

 

If the government tries that, then surely that would drive a significant divide between government and monarchy?

 

Maybe not so smart after all Boris.

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Mikey1874
1 hour ago, DETTY29 said:

Is he?

 

Might just push the next pro indy campign to have to really consider deciding not having the monarchy and split the Yes vote.

 

However QE dies and Charles is King with Camilla Queen at next Indy Referendum then it's probably an easier to leave the monarchy behind.

 

Wills and Kate, maybe not so.

 

The Queen has quickly expressed herself today as 'pretty pissed off' with Cameron.

 

She knows the score. 

 

 

Edited by Mikey1874

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Mikey1874

Decision on Supreme Court case "early next week".

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Cade

11 Judges and the legal teams seem to be getting into very, very deep details about remedies to the complaint.

:scenes:

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maroonlegions

It will be ruled in favour of Bojo, nap.  The privileged in which he really serves is also protected by the high court judges  ..  

 

 

 

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ri Alban

So they want to stop  ECJ interference with brexit. But it's ok for the Supreme court to interfere in Scots court rulings.

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Mikey1874

A point that's been made before about trade deals.

 

Britain is working on a deal with Australia that could include freedom of movement. 

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Pans Jambo
49 minutes ago, maroonlegions said:

It will be ruled in favour of Bojo, nap.  The privileged in which he really serves is also protected by the high court judges  ..  

 

 

 

You know, I hope you are wrong but I fear that this may be the case. He’s part of that ‘old school tie’ club. 

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Pans Jambo
9 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

A point that's been made before about trade deals.

 

Britain is working on a deal with Australia that could include freedom of movement. 

We building a tunnel?

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King prawn
55 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

We building a tunnel?

Well if building bridges left right and centre is a consideration, why not? :whistling:

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jake

😃 

Suddenly pro euro Tory MPs are not part of oxbridge or labour 🤣 

 

Theres some kidology gawn about 

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redjambo
6 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

We building a tunnel?

 

I don't know if you ever saw the "remake" of Total Recall (the original classic Arnold Schwarzenegger movie). One of the elements of it was the exact same premise, a tunnel through the centre of the Earth from the UK to Australia, by which workers were transported. The remake had some nice bits to it but wasn't a patch on the original. Anyway, I wouldn't put it past Boris to suggest it. ;)

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Cade

UK Brexit team asking the EU negotiation team not to give any information to any of the 27 EU member states.

:interehjrling:

 

Wonder why??

And I also wonder how the UK team think this is going to ever be accepted.

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Victorian
53 minutes ago, Cade said:

UK Brexit team asking the EU negotiation team not to give any information to any of the 27 EU member states.

:interehjrling:

 

Wonder why??

And I also wonder how the UK team think this is going to ever be accepted.

 

Stands to reason.   A government that shuts down it's own parliament to avoid scrutiny would think it normal for the EU to be equally devious.     It will be wanting the retention of details in order prevent leaking of information back to the UK.     Another indication that the government's stated strategy to achieve a deal is not it's actual strategy.

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The Mighty Thor
6 hours ago, Cade said:

UK Brexit team asking the EU negotiation team not to give any information to any of the 27 EU member states.

:interehjrling:

 

Wonder why??

And I also wonder how the UK team think this is going to ever be accepted.

So they didn't 😂

And of course the submissions from the UK amount to bugger all.

30 days later and still nothing of any consequence.

Tick tock.

IMG_20190920_174717.jpg

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Cade

UK wants to leave the EU and the Customs Union.

This causes a hard border in Northern Ireland, which breaches the Good Friday Agreement.

EU comes up with the Backstop which keeps NI in the Customs Union if no other solutions can be found.

UK has come up with shite-all in three and a half years other than crying about the Backstop.

 

Tragic.

 

 

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Mikey1874

Oh dear

 

UK Government proposals fall short. 

 

Well there is a development. 

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redjambo

In the meantime, there's going to be a vote held shortly to oust Tom Watson as deputy Labour leader and insiders reckon it will succeed.

 

What the feck are the Labour party thinking about? They're on a path to self-destruction, effectively handing the country over to the Tories.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49776100

Edited by redjambo

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Ibrahim Tall
5 hours ago, redjambo said:

In the meantime, there's going to be a vote held shortly to oust Tom Watson as deputy Labour leader and insiders reckon it will succeed.

 

What the feck are the Labour party thinking about? They're on a path to self-destruction, effectively handing the country over to the Tories.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49776100

 

Tbh Lib Dem’s could benefit most from that. They seem determined to virtually become ‘New Labour’ as it is of late. Labour on the other hand seem determined to become a fringe party with no chance of ever winning an election.

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Mikey1874

Labour is strange.

 

Tom Watson as Deputy Leader is like Teresa May having Jacob Rees Mogg as Deputy Leader. 

 

Their risk is an internal split that has been coming spews out into the open. Before an election. Corbyn supporters going all in. 

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Victorian
1 hour ago, Ibrahim Tall said:

 

Tbh Lib Dem’s could benefit most from that. They seem determined to virtually become ‘New Labour’ as it is of late. Labour on the other hand seem determined to become a fringe party with no chance of ever winning an election.

 

LDs are absolutely not any version of New Labour.    They've taken in a couple of disaffected,  cardboard cut-out Labour MPs but they've also been happy to take in a few Tory MPs who have previous voting records that diverge widely from their own stated LD 'values'.     Their leader is an overt greasy pole climber with no genuine political philosophy.    The female Nick Clegg.

 

LD Brexit policy has made them a party on the extremes of opinion.    They have set themselves full square against anyone who voted leave or subsequently chooses to 'honour' the referendum result.    Their 1st choice policy is to cancel the result of the referendum snd not hold another one. 

 

Labour's policy is to negotiate with the EU to attempt to achieve a deal and then allow the public to vote between that and remain.    Giving people another democratic choice.

 

Labour - pro democratic choice.   Clear social and economic policies.

 

LD - clear strategy to maximise number of seats via extreme, notional,  undeliverable promise.   Only want a Westminster bloc to achieve balance of power.   Likely to u-turn and prop up another Tory minority government on a vote-by-vote basis.    A barrier to real reform.

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Jambo-Jimbo
7 hours ago, redjambo said:

In the meantime, there's going to be a vote held shortly to oust Tom Watson as deputy Labour leader and insiders reckon it will succeed.

 

What the feck are the Labour party thinking about? They're on a path to self-destruction, effectively handing the country over to the Tories.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49776100

 

Welcome to UK politics in 2019.

 

We have a Tory party who may or may not have broken the law, either way though are playing fast & loose with at least the spirit of democracy.

 

The Lib Dems just want to ignore democracy altogether and overturn the largest democratic vote in UK history, because they didn't like the result.

 

And now we have a powerful movement within the Labour party who want to circumnavigate Labour's own rules and get rid any dissenting voice, who doesn't agree with Corbyn.

 

This is the state of UK politics now, 3 of the largest parties who are showing a scant regard for the rule of democracy.

 

Last week we had many thousands of people take to the streets to 'defend democracy', I look forward to similar taking place, wont be holding my breath tho.

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Brighton Jambo
1 hour ago, Victorian said:

 

LDs are absolutely not any version of New Labour.    They've taken in a couple of disaffected,  cardboard cut-out Labour MPs but they've also been happy to take in a few Tory MPs who have previous voting records that diverge widely from their own stated LD 'values'.     Their leader is an overt greasy pole climber with no genuine political philosophy.    The female Nick Clegg.

 

LD Brexit policy has made them a party on the extremes of opinion.    They have set themselves full square against anyone who voted leave or subsequently chooses to 'honour' the referendum result.    Their 1st choice policy is to cancel the result of the referendum snd not hold another one. 

 

Labour's policy is to negotiate with the EU to attempt to achieve a deal and then allow the public to vote between that and remain.    Giving people another democratic choice.

 

Labour - pro democratic choice.   Clear social and economic policies.

 

LD - clear strategy to maximise number of seats via extreme, notional,  undeliverable promise.   Only want a Westminster bloc to achieve balance of power.   Likely to u-turn and prop up another Tory minority government on a vote-by-vote basis.    A barrier to real reform.

Are you being serious? Emily Thornberry actually said that in the event of securing a deal labour might actually then campaign against that deal.  They are a total shambles on brexit and their leader, incredibly, after three years still hasn’t made his position clear.

 

On the eve of their conference the left wing of the party is trying to force out one of the more respected and moderate front benchers.  So rather than the headlines being about their social and brexit position it’s all about infighting and the role of momentum.  

 

This is is he worst Tory government in living memory, they are a right wing, toxic mess led by a baffoon.  Yet they have a double digit polls lead over labour.  Any other opposition in any other era would be streets ahead in the polls but labour trail even the Lib Dem’s.

 

They are literally unelectable.  

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Victorian
2 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

Are you being serious? Emily Thornberry actually said that in the event of securing a deal labour might actually then campaign against that deal.  They are a total shambles on brexit and their leader, incredibly, after three years still hasn’t made his position clear.

 

On the eve of their conference the left wing of the party is trying to force out one of the more respected and moderate front benchers.  So rather than the headlines being about their social and brexit position it’s all about infighting and the role of momentum.  

 

This is is he worst Tory government in living memory, they are a right wing, toxic mess led by a baffoon.  Yet they have a double digit polls lead over labour.  Any other opposition in any other era would be streets ahead in the polls but labour trail even the Lib Dem’s.

 

They are literally unelectable.  

 

It's only unclear if you don't make half an effort to understand it.    

 

Negotiate a deal with the EU.   Place the choice of that deal against our current deal (EU membership) in a referendum for the public to decide upon.     It's entirely legitimate to campaign to remain.    They will campaign based on the nature of the negotiated deal.

 

Could not be clearer.    Gives people another democratic choice.   

 

But it's easier to just parrot out all the old Labour tropes.     

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Brighton Jambo
5 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

It's only unclear if you don't make half an effort to understand it.    

 

Negotiate a deal with the EU.   Place the choice of that deal against our current deal (EU membership) in a referendum for the public to decide upon.     It's entirely legitimate to campaign to remain.    They will campaign based on the nature of the negotiated deal.

 

Could not be clearer.    Gives people another democratic choice.   

 

But it's easier to just parrot out all the old Labour tropes.     

So if they are going to campaign for remain what incentive will they have to get the best deal possible. It’s a laughable shambolic position. 

 

As as I said unelectable.  

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Jambo-Jimbo
12 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

So if they are going to campaign for remain what incentive will they have to get the best deal possible. It’s a laughable shambolic position. 

 

As as I said unelectable.  

 

Corbyn has stated on numerous occasions that he'd negotiate a deal which keeps the UK in the single market & a customs union.

 

So the 'choice' Labour would put to the electorate is this.

 

A - Vote for my deal which keeps the UK in the single market & a customs union.

B - Vote to stay with the current deal.

 

In other words stay in the EU either way.

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Cade

All of the traditional "big three" parties are in a total mess.

Tories and Labour split by factional infighting.

LibDems are letting casualties of the other two join them and are seriously angering their grass roots by doing so and also for considering de-selecting life-long LD MPs so the new guys can be parachuted into safe or marginal seats.

 

A General Election any time in the next year or so is almost impossible to predict.

Absolutely anything could happen.

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Victorian
49 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

So if they are going to campaign for remain what incentive will they have to get the best deal possible. It’s a laughable shambolic position. 

 

As as I said unelectable.  

 

They MIGHT campaign to remain,  based on what deal is achieved.    Remain is not a given position therefore the incentive is there to achieve a meaningful alternative.

 

The attention you have paid to Labour's policy is laughable and shambolic.    You should maybe think for yourself rather than be spoon fed what the media want you to think.

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The Mighty Thor
12 minutes ago, redjambo said:

They're finished as a mass appeal party. 

 

They will be shredded by the lib Dems and the Brexit Party in the forthcoming GE. Their heartlands of Scotland & Wales are lost to them and the North will go soon.

Finished!

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Victorian

So they've de-escalated an unreasonable act to oust the deputy.    Maybe the deputy can help his and his party's cause by accepting the agreed party policy positions.    Nothing wrong with stating a personal opinion but he should spend equal effort in serving the agreed policy.    

 

If he can't then he's damaging his party.

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Mikey1874
3 minutes ago, Victorian said:

So they've de-escalated an unreasonable act to oust the deputy.    Maybe the deputy can help his and his party's cause by accepting the agreed party policy positions.    Nothing wrong with stating a personal opinion but he should spend equal effort in serving the agreed policy.    

 

If he can't then he's damaging his party.

 

It's quite a bizarre set up.

 

It would be like Tory party with Boris Johnson as Prime Minister had Philip Hammond as Deputy. 

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Victorian
Just now, Mikey1874 said:

 

It's quite a bizarre set up.

 

It would be like Tory party with Boris Johnson as Prime Minister had Philip Hammond as Deputy. 

 

They are elected separately.    It's worked well in the past.     It's a damn sight more democratic than the Tory system.     But Watson should be more responsible and hasn't helped anyone.

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ri Alban
2 hours ago, Brighton Jambo said:

Are you being serious? Emily Thornberry actually said that in the event of securing a deal labour might actually then campaign against that deal.  They are a total shambles on brexit and their leader, incredibly, after three years still hasn’t made his position clear.

 

On the eve of their conference the left wing of the party is trying to force out one of the more respected and moderate front benchers.  So rather than the headlines being about their social and brexit position it’s all about infighting and the role of momentum.  

 

This is is he worst Tory government in living memory, they are a right wing, toxic mess led by a baffoon.  Yet they have a double digit polls lead over labour.  Any other opposition in any other era would be streets ahead in the polls but labour trail even the Lib Dem’s.

 

They are literally unelectable.  

Maybe Britain is right wing and this Tory party is their true face.

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Australis......

If Boris Johnson goes for Thresa Mays Brexit deal with a change to the backstop, would the Lib Dems and the SNP vote it through?

Or would they stick to their guns and not accept any Brexit in the vote?

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XB52
18 minutes ago, Australis...... said:

If Boris Johnson goes for Thresa Mays Brexit deal with a change to the backstop, would the Lib Dems and the SNP vote it through?

Or would they stick to their guns and not accept any Brexit in the vote?

The SNP have been consistent that any deal that doesn't have freedom of movement is of no interest

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Mikey1874

Supreme Court decision is tomorrow 10.30am. 

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The Real Maroonblood
1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

Supreme Court decision is tomorrow 10.30am. 

I wonder what odds the bookies are given on the outcome 

 

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Francis Albert
On 21/09/2019 at 12:16, ri Alban said:

Maybe Britain is right wing and this Tory party is their true face.

So the Tories represent the democratic will if the British people, according to you

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Francis Albert
On 21/09/2019 at 18:57, XB52 said:

The SNP have been consistent that any deal that doesn't have freedom of movement is of no interest

If the SNP seeks to achieve independence and remain in the EU while Ruk leaves with no so called "freedom of movement" what will be the SNP's position?  No Freedom of movement between Scotland and Ruk? Really?

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Francis Albert
2 hours ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

I wonder what odds the bookies are given on the outcome 

 

Most speculation now  seems to suggest that the Government will lose. God knows what that will actually mean other than recall of a Parliament that seems incapable of agreeing anything.

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ri Alban
9 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

So the Tories represent the democratic will if the British people, according to you

Na, The BNP/Brexit/NF/Ukip, but they'll never get in, so the Tories will do.

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The Real Maroonblood
6 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Most speculation now  seems to suggest that the Government will lose. God knows what that will actually mean other than recall of a Parliament that seems incapable of agreeing anything.

Fair point. 

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Brighton Jambo
13 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

If the SNP seeks to achieve independence and remain in the EU while Ruk leaves with no so called "freedom of movement" what will be the SNP's position?  No Freedom of movement between Scotland and Ruk? Really?

Let’s hope so because that will turn a good few thousand voters away from independence.  

 

 

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ri Alban
23 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

If the SNP seeks to achieve independence and remain in the EU while Ruk leaves with no so called "freedom of movement" what will be the SNP's position?  No Freedom of movement between Scotland and Ruk? Really?

:yas:

 

Can't wait. Especially to expel the Scottish traitors.

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