Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[Justin Z]

Just now, jake said:

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=0ahUKEwiyt5j7kO7jAhWLzYUKHdbMDf8QzPwBCAM&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fmedia%2Fgreenslade%2F2016%2Faug%2F16%2Fpro-and-anti-brexit-newspapers-reflected-leave-vote-shock-says-study&psig=AOvVaw3B3GLEBjgcoXyX2N3ZpDDD&ust=1565177036191476

 

Please click through and get links out of your address bar so you don't paste messes like this.

[jake]

8 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Please click through and get links out of your address bar so you don't paste messes like this.

I dont know why but it's the only way I am able to post links.

 

Please dont try and explain.

 

 

Edited August 6, 2019 by jake

[Justin Z]

6 minutes ago, jake said:

I dont know why but it's the only way I am able to post links.

 

Please dont try and explain.

 

I believe in you.

[SwindonJambo]

1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

The main reason that won't happen is that if there is chaos after No Deal the government will surely be blamed and it's an open goal for Labour. 

 

It certainly should be.  Unfortunately they have the political equivalent of Connor Sammon up front, which is a terrible missed opportunity.

[AlphonseCapone]

25 minutes ago, jake said:

I dont know why but it's the only way I am able to post links.

 

Please dont try and explain.

 

 

 

[Cade]

Guardian and Independent regularly have pro-brexit columns and opinion pieces.

[annushorribilis III]

2 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

The main reason that won't happen is that if there is chaos after No Deal the government will surely be blamed and it's an open goal for Labour. 

Ireland/EU/"Remoaners" will get the blame - the blame game has already started in the media. Johnson will tell everyone it could have been done but for the "traitors" in Parliament , not to mention all the Jonahs in the BoE, OBR, IMF, Ford, BMW, Honda, Nissan, Peugeot, the Japanese govt. And nothing at all  to do with May screwing it up from the outset, ERG voting for/against her deal and  100+ Tories who voted their own PM down. Still lot's of fun to be had before 31 Oct. 

[jake]

2 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

I believe in you.

😃 

But I voted brexit

[Justin Z]

4 minutes ago, jake said:

😃

But I voted brexit

 

Ah, but it's not about the mistakes we make--it's how we learn from them.

[Francis Albert]

3 hours ago, Cade said:

Guardian and Independent regularly have pro-brexit columns and opinion pieces.

I read both and they are pretty rare. I read the Mail Times and Telegraph less often but have seen more anti Brexit pieces in those than pro-Brexit pieces in the Guardian.  Brexit is also less pervasive in the non-news content than in the Guardian.

But to be fair the Guardian again reported the latest job losses at Harland and Wolff and Tesco without referencing Brexit. In its leader columns it rightly and angrily describes the long decline in  British shipbuilding due to the neglect of every Government for many decades. The UK once produced the majority of the world's shipping. (A visit to the Maritime Museum in Rhodes confirms this, where the vast majority of models of steam ships in the early years of the last century, are of ships built in the UK, predominantly the Clyde but also from the other great ship building centres - there is even a Leith example). Even 30 or 40 years ago the UK had a substantial ship-building industry. Now the UN statistics show that UK shipbuilding has declined so far the UK's world share rates 0.0 % in the statistics as they don't go beyond one decimal place. Yet the Guardian's closing sentence is "The result is that a post-Brexit Britain [they mean UK] would have no shipbuilding sector adapted to 21st-century markets. Instead it would be closed for business". That of course would be the case with or without Brexit and still be the case if as the Guardian relentlessly argues for, the Brexit vote was reversed or Parliament overthrew it. What exactly is the relevance to the reference to Brexit except subliminally to link Brexit to bad news and decline?

 

Edited August 6, 2019 by Francis Albert

[Cade]

Gove: "We wanted to make a whole new deal but with no backstop and unicorns and rainbows but the EVIL EUSSR said no"

 

 

What a complete tosser

Edited August 6, 2019 by Cade

[dobmisterdobster]

On 02/08/2019 at 00:43, Zlatanable said:

It can't be just me that thinks, just do no-deal Brexit. 

Whatever survives, we will get on with it.

Yep. A deal will probably never be agreed no matter how many times we extend article 50.

Just get it over with.

[The Mighty Thor]

2 minutes ago, Cade said:

Gove: "We wanted to make a whole new deal but with no backstop and unicorns and rainbows but the EVIL EUSSR said no"

 

 

What a complete tosser

Its turning into a constant Trumpian fog of utter bullshit. Day after day the talking heads come out with some utter tosh about how it's all someone else's fault. 

I'm glad its Gove and Johnson in amongst it now. Own it boys. Own it. 

[dobmisterdobster]

6 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

The main reason that won't happen is that if there is chaos after No Deal the government will surely be blamed and it's an open goal for Labour. 

Labour are far too incompetent to capitalise on any of the Tories failings. I doubt a lot of their MPs will want to back a no confidence motion/snap election in this climate.

[The Real Maroonblood]

18 minutes ago, Cade said:

Gove: "We wanted to make a whole new deal but with no backstop and unicorns and rainbows but the EVIL EUSSR said no"

 

 

What a complete tosser

A new deal.

What planet are they on?

Tossers.

[jake]

3 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

Ah, but it's not about the mistakes we make--it's how we learn from them.

Walked right intae that one .

 

[Costanza]

More Project Fear from the EU cheerleaders at the Daily Telegraph.

 

 

 

[Martin_T]

41 minutes ago, Costanza said:

More Project Fear from the EU cheerleaders at the Daily Telegraph.

 

 

 

 

He obviously doesn't believe enough.

[ri Alban]

£1=€1.08

£1=$1.21

 

Daein really well. Economy will be reported as slowing today. GDP? Who knows.

[Pans Jambo]

Would be funny if it wasnt true!

 

[Pans Jambo]

38 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

it currently looks like, unless a dramatic change happens, we’re heading for no deal exit.

 

Which imo would be unmitigated disaster. The pound is getting smacked about the place and a no deal will make that much worse, parity with the dollar, ffs, look possible. The ramifications of this aren’t good

particularly with a recession over due, This is potentially damaging for every level of society in this country

 

The majority of the commons seems to be against a no deal exit. However, i’m getting to the stage where I’m not sure how they stop it?

 

The theory of government of unity, falls down for me in I think Bojo would call an election, unless queeney intervenes, so hard exit became the default.

 

So someone who is a bit more au fair with these matters give me a run down on how the house could stop a hard exit?

 

I see no way the Torres and the EU reach an agreement, whilst not impossible seems very unlikely.

Even if they could it would be a Tory vision of a deal and given that no other party has had any meaningful input (for that simple reason), it wouldn't pass in any vote in parliament.

So its not deal crash-out or a G.E. IMO.

Sterling will be on its arse in a 7 weeks! Kiss your pension goodbye!

[Pans Jambo]

3 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

 

I’m not sure I agree with this to be honest.

 

The issue with May deal was the Irish back stop.. Solve that problem and that then gets us to a position to start negotiating future agreements etc. A may deal with Irish backstop solved could pass through parliament, not everyone will be happy but it would likely pass. Though I agree it’s a disgrace it wasn’t a consensus across house reached, however, as we saw from the series of votes there was a majority for nothing in relation to brexit, except they do t want a no deal.

 

The markets have priced brexit in, if it happens with a deal you will see a bit of bump in the markets and particularly sterling. Whilst pensions are generally hedged to feck so unless your pension scheme has gone full on Woodford they should be fine.

 

I don’t see how a GE solves the issue as the default position is leave on 31st October, I think bojo would call it for early November, his right as I understand it.  Bojo is currently ahead in the polls, I believe, brexit happens he will hoover up brexit vote, the snp will possibly produce a full house for Scotland, the Lib Dem’s will get remain support and labour will be left blaming the Jews for cotbyns feck up 😉 The Tories will have probably have a much larger majority ☹️

 

The key to this is timing for the tortes, get an election very close to the date after 31st no one will have the time to see the consequences. Other than the pound and the markets going mental and most people, incorrectly,  believe that stuff doesn’t effect them and only impacts rich people, or elderly!!!

I dont disagree but the EU have already stated that they wont negotiate on the backstop. They will (& have) supported Ireland to the hilt and will continue to do so.

I cant see anything other than a stalemate/no deal crash-out which will suit those wealthy folk with vested interests (& the numpties who believe everything they read in the Daily Mail).

[Don Dan]

Very poor GDP figure out. All the signs are there against us leaving. Just pull the plug now before we wreck this country. 

As much a folks on here would hate it. If Boris did pull the plug call a GE he’d romp it in. Corbyn is a dead duck. There needs to be a new Labour leader more centralist minded who would then go on to defeat the Tories. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

3 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

Would be funny if it wasnt true!

 

 

It's neither funny or true. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

5 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

Very poor GDP figure out. All the signs are there against us leaving. Just pull the plug now before we wreck this country. 

As much a folks on here would hate it. If Boris did pull the plug call a GE he’d romp it in. Corbyn is a dead duck. There needs to be a new Labour leader more centralist minded who would then go on to defeat the Tories. 

 

Him and McConnell (you know the nasty terrorist supporting piece of poo) are too busy trying to find an Uber driver who knows how to get to Buckingham Palace.

[Seymour M Hersh]

2 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

 

Corbyn not to busy going to Celtic matches? There are similarities there I guess.🤮

 

When was he at a sellik game? And I didn't think I could have more disdain for gramps. Who knew. 

Edited August 9, 2019 by Seymour M Hersh

[Seymour M Hersh]

Just now, Lord BJ said:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.scotsman.com/sport/football/celtic/jeremy-corbyn-singles-out-celtic-star-after-taking-in-champions-league-clash-1-4979139/amp

 

Won't let me read it as I won't take off adblock for their rag.

[Don Dan]

13 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Him and McConnell (you know the nasty terrorist supporting piece of poo) are too busy trying to find an Uber driver who knows how to get to Buckingham Palace.

 

😂

[Don Dan]

2 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Won't let me read it as I won't take off adblock for their rag.

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1159223719719505922?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.scotsman.com%2Fsport%2Ffootball%2Fceltic%2Fjeremy-corbyn-singles-out-celtic-star-after-taking-in-champions-league-clash-1-4979139

[Seymour M Hersh]

4 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1159223719719505922?ref_src=twsrc^tfw|twcamp^tweetembed&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.scotsman.com%2Fsport%2Ffootball%2Fceltic%2Fjeremy-corbyn-singles-out-celtic-star-after-taking-in-champions-league-clash-1-4979139

 

 

[Pans Jambo]

23 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

It's neither funny or true. 

Oh its well true. 

[Justin Z]

3 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

Would be funny if it wasnt true!

 

 

Extremely funny, extremely true.

[AlphonseCapone]

2 hours ago, Lord BJ said:

 

I’m not sure I agree with this to be honest.

 

The issue with May deal was the Irish back stop.. Solve that problem and that then gets us to a position to start negotiating future agreements etc. A may deal with Irish backstop solved could pass through parliament, not everyone will be happy but it would likely pass. Though I agree it’s a disgrace it wasn’t a consensus across house reached, however, as we saw from the series of votes there was a majority for nothing in relation to brexit, except they do t want a no deal.

 

The markets have priced brexit in, if it happens with a deal you will see a bit of bump in the markets and particularly sterling. Whilst pensions are generally hedged to feck so unless your pension scheme has gone full on Woodford they should be fine.

 

I don’t see how a GE solves the issue as the default position is leave on 31st October, I think bojo would call it for early November, his right as I understand it.  Bojo is currently ahead in the polls, I believe, brexit happens he will hoover up brexit vote, the snp will possibly produce a full house for Scotland, the Lib Dem’s will get remain support and labour will be left blaming the Jews for cotbyns feck up 😉 The Tories will have probably have a much larger majority ☹️

 

The key to this is timing for the tortes, get an election very close to the date after 31st no one will have the time to see the consequences. Other than the pound and the markets going mental and most people, incorrectly,  believe that stuff doesn’t effect them and only impacts rich people, or elderly!!!

 

Simple to say, but not simple to do. The issue with the border isn't solvable, at least not currently. The backstop is going nowhere, and that's why we will crash out of the EU with no deal. 

[gowestjambo]

7 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

Simple to say, but not simple to do. The issue with the border isn't solvable, at least not currently. The backstop is going nowhere, and that's why we will crash out of the EU with no deal. 

 Switzerland is not in the EU, but borders lots of EU members. Everything is done electronically. There is no hard border there, why is one needed in Ireland?

[dobmisterdobster]

2 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

 

I get that, that why my first post of the day was asking how the feck is a no deal stopped? Which no one has answered. 

 

Im amazes we don’t see more effort into stopping it, about the only thing the house agrees on.  It by far and away looks the most likely scenario now.

 

I get politicians ain’t in at the moment but the clock is quickly ticking and that’s in Bojo/Cummings favour☹️

 

What options does parliament realistically have to stop no deal?

It's the legal default of the Article 50 bill which was passed in 2017.

The only thing they can do is force Boris out with a no confidence vote and get an interim Prime Minister who could ask the EU for an extension.

Whether this is feasible at all, let alone before October 31st is questionable.

[Cade]

38 minutes ago, gowestjambo said:

 Switzerland is not in the EU, but borders lots of EU members. Everything is done electronically. There is no hard border there, why is one needed in Ireland?

Switzerland is a member of the single market

 

UK won't be.

 

There are still manned customs stations and goods vehicles checks on the Swiss border.

It's a hard border

Edited August 9, 2019 by Cade

[RobboM]

36 minutes ago, gowestjambo said:

 Switzerland is not in the EU, but borders lots of EU members. Everything is done electronically. There is no hard border there, why is one needed in Ireland?

The Swiss border is often held up as an example of what could be achieved in Ireland, but here too there is physical infrastructure at all the main crossings - it is a hard border.

According to information from the International Road Transport Union (IRU), the average waiting time for lorries carrying goods ranges from 20 minutes to more than two hours if full inspections have to be carried out.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-44054594
 

 

[AlphonseCapone]

45 minutes ago, gowestjambo said:

 Switzerland is not in the EU, but borders lots of EU members. Everything is done electronically. There is no hard border there, why is one needed in Ireland?

 

Switzerland is a hard border, except for people because it's in Schengen. Checks are carried out according to this Swiss state website; 

 

https://www.sem.admin.ch/sem/en/home/themen/einreise/einreise-ch-schengen.html

[AlphonseCapone]

47 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

 

I get that, that why my first post of the day was asking how the feck is a no deal stopped? Which no one has answered. 

 

Im amazes we don’t see more effort into stopping it, about the only thing the house agrees on.  It by far and away looks the most likely scenario now.

 

I get politicians ain’t in at the moment but the clock is quickly ticking and that’s in Bojo/Cummings favour☹️

 

 

I think we'll see efforts stepped up soon but by what mechanism I don't know as I don't know the intricacies of Westminster. Until Bojo got in though I think all sides were too busy playing politics with it, carving out a little advantage for their own party, because they didn't believe May would allow no deal to happen, by getting extensions etc. But now with Bojo coming in, the games changed and no deal is coming unless they stop the games. I fear they've left it too late though. 

Edited August 9, 2019 by AlphonseCapone

[RobboM]

3 hours ago, Lord BJ said:

 

I’m not sure I agree with this to be honest.

 

The issue with May deal was the Irish back stop.. Solve that problem and that then gets us to a position to start negotiating future agreements etc. A may deal with Irish backstop solved could pass through parliament, not everyone will be happy but it would likely pass. Though I agree it’s a disgrace it wasn’t a consensus across house reached, however, as we saw from the series of votes there was a majority for nothing in relation to brexit, except they do t want a no deal.

 

 

Offer up Irish unification?
 

[Cade]

The Irish border problem cannot be solved.

The UK's contradictory red lines make it an impossibility.

Unless the UK relents on some red lines, there WILL be a hard border in Ireland.

 

 

[dobmisterdobster]

31 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

 

Thanks, that’s what I feared.

 

Could someone try and pass a bill to revoke article 50? Not even sure could pass in time. Though that cooper bill got through pretty quickly from memory. 

 

I cant see how a no deal is prevented now. 

Revoking article 50 will require an act of parliament not a bill.

Commons leader Jacob Rees Mogg will probably fiddle the parliamentary timetable to make it harder to debate it.

[Cade]

The problem with Westminster is that 70% of the way it works is "tradition" or "protocol" or "convention" and not actually law written down in stone.

Usually this isn't a problem but the mess we're in now is exposing how unfit for purpose, arcane, anachronistic and unfit for purpose it is in the 21st century.

People relying on accepted conventions are suddenly finding out that they can be circumvented or ignored because they are not law.

MPs on all sides are in a total panic and paralysis because nobody knows what the rules really are and how it really works.

 

Parliament could take control of the business of the house and have already done so over the last few months.

Bercow allowing this has set precedent so it should be easier for it to happen again, but having said that, the govt would simply whip harder to try to oppose such a thing from happening again.

BUT this would then force more wavering tory rebels into voting against the govt.

Westminster is in total chaos and the entire nation has ground to a halt while it's playing games within games and not doing anything for the people.

[Pans Jambo]

1 hour ago, Cade said:

The problem with Westminster is that 70% of the way it works is "tradition" or "protocol" or "convention" and not actually law written down in stone.

Usually this isn't a problem but the mess we're in now is exposing how unfit for purpose, arcane, anachronistic and unfit for purpose it is in the 21st century.

People relying on accepted conventions are suddenly finding out that they can be circumvented or ignored because they are not law.

MPs on all sides are in a total panic and paralysis because nobody knows what the rules really are and how it really works.

 

Parliament could take control of the business of the house and have already done so over the last few months.

Bercow allowing this has set precedent so it should be easier for it to happen again, but having said that, the govt would simply whip harder to try to oppose such a thing from happening again.

BUT this would then force more wavering tory rebels into voting against the govt.

Westminster is in total chaos and the entire nation has ground to a halt while it's playing games within games and not doing anything for the people.

Indeed...but the day job, the day job...

[Uberjambo]

5 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

I dont disagree but the EU have already stated that they wont negotiate on the backstop. They will (& have) supported Ireland to the hilt and will continue to do so.

I cant see anything other than a stalemate/no deal crash-out which will suit those wealthy folk with vested interests (& the numpties who believe everything they read in the Daily Mail).

 

Out of interest, how does the EU deal with trade from Switzerland. There are no hard borders there. 

[Pans Jambo]

12 minutes ago, Uberjambo said:

 

Out of interest, how does the EU deal with trade from Switzerland. There are no hard borders there. 

Thats been answered further up this page mate

[Uberjambo]

2 minutes ago, Pans Jambo said:

Thats been answered further up this page mate

Cheers. Will scroll when I get a chance. Late to the debate.

[Seymour M Hersh]

5 hours ago, Pans Jambo said:

Oh its well true. 

 

I'll wager you are a flat earther as well. 

[Pans Jambo]

8 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

I'll wager you are a flat earther as well. 

I’ll take that bet on. Much???

[DETTY29]

Why can't Northern Ireland be like Switzerland, er, ok?

 

Edit - that might work.

 

 

Edited August 9, 2019 by DETTY29