Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[Don Dan]

Just now, Victorian said:

I think Hunt will get it.    Johnson to be too toxic to MPs to make the membership vote final 2.    Hunt vs Leadsom in that.    If Johnson makes the final 2 then he would win.

 

Rory Stewart is the best candidate but image is important.     He seems a decent guy but he doesn't have the statesman image.

 

I’m with you there. Johnson would be a complete disaster. He wants to leave without a deal and that just won’t happen. Parliament won’t back him. They wouldn’t even back Mays Deal,  Johnson has no hope. 

[Victorian]

3 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

I’m with you there. Johnson would be a complete disaster. He wants to leave without a deal and that just won’t happen. Parliament won’t back him. They wouldn’t even back Mays Deal,  Johnson has no hope. 

Johnson's Brexit 'strategy' is only one matter.    On a wider policy platform and in terms of electoral appeal,    lots of Tories will be spewing.    He could never carry them to a majority win.

[manaliveits105]

Hopefully Jimmy Krankie will be gone soon too when the Scottish silent majority respond to her incompetency 

[SwindonJambo]

4 hours ago, Boris said:

Wouldn't be surprised to see a general election later on in the year.

 

I wouldn't be surprised by...just about anything! Including a maroon win tomorrow. On the the road north as I type.

[SwindonJambo]

28 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

I’m with you there. Johnson would be a complete disaster. He wants to leave without a deal and that just won’t happen. Parliament won’t back him. They wouldn’t even back Mays Deal,  Johnson has no hope. 

 

I really don't want BoJo as PM. A toxic and divisive disaster and total buffoon.

 

So who are the candidates?

 

Rudd

Gove

Hunt

Javid

 

perhaps?

 

 

 

[Boris]

11 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

I wouldn't be surprised by...just about anything! Including a maroon win tomorrow. On the the road north as I type.

 

Safe journey!  Here's to that surprise!

[Boris]

8 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

I really don't want BoJo as PM. A toxic and divisive disaster and total buffoon.

 

So who are the candidates?

 

Rudd

Gove

Hunt

Javid

 

perhaps?

 

 

 

 

Raab will throw his hat in, as will that McVey woman.

[SwindonJambo]

8 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

Raab will throw his hat in, as will that McVey woman.

 

Groan

Hopefully both eliminated at the 1st stage. If Baw Jaws wins, I despair. The winner will want his/her own choice of Chancellor, so probably exit Hammond from No 11.

[SwindonJambo]

14 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

Safe journey!  Here's to that surprise!

 

Ta. I'm on a coach on the M6 in South Lancashire in intermittent traffic jams. I remember driving up this same road for a cup final 21 years ago with similar expectations. Look what happened then  !

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

1 hour ago, Barack said:

Look forward to Leadsom's "challenge..."

She'll just stare, expressionless, into the distance. 

[Boris]

19 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

Ta. I'm on a coach on the M6 in South Lancashire in intermittent traffic jams. I remember driving up this same road for a cup final 21 years ago with similar expectations. Look what happened then  !

[SwindonJambo]

5 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

Is the correct answer. THAT happened And no-one expected it.

 

4 shots on goal for Hearts. 26 for deidco. The possession time stats were ridiculous too.

 

Applying similar logic to the new PM, it could easily be that a non frontrunner wins, as John Major did in 1990 after Maggie T was booted out. Can't think of who, though.

[Boris]

2 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

Is the correct answer. THAT happened And no-one expected it.

 

4 shots on goal for Hearts. 26 for deidco. The possession time stats were ridiculous too.

 

Applying similar logic to the new PM, it could easily be that a non frontrunner wins, as John Major did in 1990 after Maggie T was booted out. Can't think of who, though.

 

I wonder if the wee prick that was fired over the leak will throw his hat in?

[SwindonJambo]

5 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

I wonder if the wee prick that was fired over the leak will throw his hat in?

Could well do. It will be both interesting and treacherous. A new leader Inheriting a minority government will likely lead to an early election and yet another hung parliament.

[doctor jambo]

57 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

Raab will throw his hat in, as will that McVey woman.

For all that I'm a feminist type bloke......

The female leaders in this country haven't half been utter dug shite on  a massive scale.

In fact I'd stretch that to female politicians of all rosettes.

Can we not ask Big Ange Merkel to run in this country?

 

[Boris]

2 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

Could well do. It will be both interesting and treacherous. A new leader Inheriting a minority government will likely lead to an early election and yet another hung parliament.

 

Yes, and that election would be interesting.

 

How many seats would the Brexit Party take from the Tories?

 

How ould Labour do?

 

Would the lib Dems become a force again?

 

And up here, polls suggest the SNP to regain seats, so at the end of the day the Parliamentary arithmetic may be even more delicately balanced.

 

Which gives the Tories up here real issues.  For example, Tories and Brexit Party cosy up?  The whole gig is nuts right now.  And it was all so easily avoidable too.

 

Still, it seems that what's best for the Tory Party is obviously what's best for the country! 

[CJGJ]

Are we supposed to feel sorry for May ?......a failure who somehow survived a terrible decision to call an election and who failed on the one job she was there to deliver. Failed in a major part due to her own actions and decisions

 

Watched her nearly burst into tears at the end of her speech and thought what a wimp, no wonder she failed and good riddance

Two women PM's and both burst into tears at the end...will this trend continue ?

 

In her personal life I hope she is happy but her political life in recent times has been a disaster

Edited May 24, 2019 by CJGJ

[AlphonseCapone]

29 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

For all that I'm a feminist type bloke......

The female leaders in this country haven't half been utter dug shite on  a massive scale.

In fact I'd stretch that to female politicians of all rosettes.

Can we not ask Big Ange Merkel to run in this country?

 

 

Pretty small sample though isn't it. Id also say that Sturgeon and Davidson are both good leaders. Plenty male leaders have been utter dog shit too. And I wouldn't go down the all female politicians route unless you can actually back that up with something for each of them, which I doubt you can. Let's not make this a gender thing because that's ridiculous. 

[The Real Maroonblood]

2 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

Hopefully Jimmy Krankie will be gone soon too when the Scottish silent majority respond to her incompetency 

You shouldn’t drink on an empty head.

[doctor jambo]

17 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

Pretty small sample though isn't it. Id also say that Sturgeon and Davidson are both good leaders. Plenty male leaders have been utter dog shit too. And I wouldn't go down the all female politicians route unless you can actually back that up with something for each of them, which I doubt you can. Let's not make this a gender thing because that's ridiculous. 

OK

Passable- Sturgeon- but only barely so.

 

utter dug meat-

Davidson, May, Abbott, Leadsom, Arlene Fraser, that Hibbee one that crashed SLAB into the rocks then went on I'm a celebrity, Justine Greening, Caroline Lucas, Penny Mordaunt,  Hilary Clinton, Osario (granted in the US), Thatcher,

 

 

really good?

merkel, and I'm impressed with the NZ PM, she carries herself well

 

 

 

[AlphonseCapone]

7 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

OK

Passable- Sturgeon- but only barely so.

 

utter dug meat-

Davidson, May, Abbott, Leadsom, Arlene Fraser, that Hibbee one that crashed SLAB into the rocks then went on I'm a celebrity, Justine Greening, Caroline Lucas, Penny Mordaunt,  Hilary Clinton, Osario (granted in the US), Thatcher,

 

 

really good?

merkel, and I'm impressed with the NZ PM, she carries herself well

 

 

 

 

But that's just a list of female politicians you don't think are any good (whether you like her or not Davidson has got the Tories into 2nd position in Scotland, that's impressive). We'd both be able to create a list of awful male politicians with more ease simply because there are more them. You'd also be able to name a few more good male ones, again because of the number of them. But overall, it'd be better to keep criticisms to politicians in general, and not gender, which plays zero part in any of this. Unless you are arguing that having a vagina impacts on political ability? 

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

May got what she deserved, despite her crocodile tears. 

[Julie1957]

May never told the truth.The Old U K is finished.We are part of the E U like it or not.The Tories are in the past stand up for a facist Queen or a Christ that never walked this earth.This country must change. 

[ri Alban]

2 hours ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

You shouldn’t drink on an empty head.

Perfect!

[ri Alban]

2 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

OK

Passable- Sturgeon- but only barely so.

 

utter dug meat-

Davidson, May, Abbott, Leadsom, Arlene Fraser, that Hibbee one that crashed SLAB into the rocks then went on I'm a celebrity, Justine Greening, Caroline Lucas, Penny Mordaunt,  Hilary Clinton, Osario (granted in the US), Thatcher,

 

 

really good?

merkel, and I'm impressed with the NZ PM, she carries herself well

 

 

 

Davidson is very effective at what she does. And the Green party leader is good.

[ri Alban]

Back in the haunted mirror, Theresa.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

This from the Washington Post's Anne Applebaum is utterly brutal but hard to disagree with:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/05/24/sorry-theresa-mays-departure-solves-nothing/?utm_term=.1d8ff4e994eb

 

Quote

And, just like that, she’s gone. Theresa May, the least successful British prime minister in living memory, has resigned.

. . . 

But although that seems like a big choice to give to a small number of people, the reality is rather more banal. In truth, whoever replaces May will face exactly the same choices and exactly the same dilemmas as she did. A British prime minister who decides to crash out of the E.U. with no treaty arrangements on a Monday will wake up on Tuesday to discover that his immediate priority is ... to write a new treaty with the E.U. A British prime minister who wants to forge a reasonable compromise will discover that there is no majority for any compromise, reasonable or unreasonable, in the current House of Commons. A British prime minister who wants to remain in the E.U. will immediately face a wave of outrage from the one-third of Britons who have just voted for the brand-new “Brexit party.”

. . .

It’s not a coincidence that none of the Tory leadership contenders can present a concrete plan, because there can’t be one. The only conceivable game-changers are another referendum, which “Remain” might win, thus alienating a part of the Conservative Party forever — or another general election, one that the Conservative Party, on current performance, will lose. There’s not much point in wishing good luck to May’s successor, in other words, because it’s unlikely to help.

 

[Unknown user]

Lest we forget

 

[Governor Tarkin]

5 hours ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

 

Unless you are arguing that having a vagina impacts on political ability? 

 

And tits.

Don't forget the tits.

[Governor Tarkin]

2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Back in the haunted mirror, Theresa.

 

 

[Unknown user]

3 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

And tits.

Don't forget the tits.

 

That's the motto on my family crest that

[AlphonseCapone]

11 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

And tits.

Don't forget the tits.

 

How dare you bring Celtic fans into this on the eve of the cup final! 

[Norm]

1 hour ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

How dare you bring Celtic fans into this on the eve of the cup final! 

You're the one who brought up vaginas. 

[AlphonseCapone]

20 minutes ago, Normthebarman said:

You're the one who brought up vaginas. 

 

True

[Julie1957]

Simple.You cannot trade with E U unless you have a customs deal.If you have a customs deal you cannot trade with any country that does not have a customs deal with the E U.So that narrows the countries the U K can trade with. North Korea and Iran are 2 we can trade with.Break the Good Friday and sanctions will be introduced by the U N.The Country and N H S will be finished..For Boris and the rest of the Tory scum including J C time to wake up it is now 2019.

[redjambo]

1 hour ago, Julie1957 said:

Simple.You cannot trade with E U unless you have a customs deal.If you have a customs deal you cannot trade with any country that does not have a customs deal with the E U.So that narrows the countries the U K can trade with. North Korea and Iran are 2 we can trade with.Break the Good Friday and sanctions will be introduced by the U N.The Country and N H S will be finished..For Boris and the rest of the Tory scum including J C time to wake up it is now 2019.

 

Incorrect. You can trade with the EU with a trade deal. Or you can trade with the EU with no trade deal, on WTO terms. Your logic breaks down right at the start so the rest is hogwash.  By "customs deal", I assume you mean "customs union", which is a different kettle of fish and not necessary to trade with the EU (although it's my personal preferred option after remaining). Unless sanctions are in place, any country in the world can trade with any other.

[Cade]

The problem with the Brexit lot is that all the nations they dream of doing business with are currently in the process of signing deals with the EU.

The EU, being the biggest marketplace in the world, has clout.

It uses this clout to have "most favoured nation" clauses in these deals.

These mean that anybody else not involved in that deal as part of the EU cannot be given better terms than the terms of that deal.

So when UK nae pals turns up asking for a deal, the Japanese, Canadians and everybody else is legally bound to not give us a good as deal as they made with the EU.

 

 

[Mikey1874]

9 hours ago, Cade said:

The problem with the Brexit lot is that all the nations they dream of doing business with are currently in the process of signing deals with the EU.

The EU, being the biggest marketplace in the world, has clout.

It uses this clout to have "most favoured nation" clauses in these deals.

These mean that anybody else not involved in that deal as part of the EU cannot be given better terms than the terms of that deal.

So when UK nae pals turns up asking for a deal, the Japanese, Canadians and everybody else is legally bound to not give us a good as deal as they made with the EU.

 

 

 

EU deal with Japan means Japan CANNOT offer better terms to UK. 

 

UK generally will be better off aligning with EU deals. 

 

Brexit should be about the political freedom not being poorer. 

[Mikey1874]

I haven't seen all the detail and the final results are still coming in.

 

But I note the point some are making that despite the 35 plus % vote for the Brexit Party is the vote was a majority for Remain. 

[ri Alban]

A leaver questions Nigel about the £350m for NHS and Turkey joining the EU which made him swing  to vote leave. Nigel says things change, so the leaver asks to vote again. Nigel thinks the EU elections were a second referendum. 

Nigel, Boris and Michael etc... Brexit won't effect these people. Never mind Brexit or Trump or the environment, people should be marching on WM about the hardship for people in this country. Now! 

[RobboM]

I'm surprised Farage's comments haven't attracted more attention

 

In the Independent
 

Quote

The Brexit Party leader said he wanted to organise a team of negotiators to lead talks with the US, saying: “I was left with the impression that we are behind the curve in every way, that perhaps, after all these years as members of the European Union, we simply haven’t got people who are competent trade negotiators because it’s all been done for us by somebody else.

 

Given the importance of trade deals post Brexit to make a statement like this is astonishing. To me this reads similar to Dominic Raab's ignorance about the importance of Dover in cross channel trade.

 

Also, given that the US will insist on access to NHS as part of trade deals, will Farage be arguing for a No Deal with the USA and rely on WTO as being better than a bad deal?

 

 

[Cade]

The Independent Group

Change UK

"Independent Group for Change" have changed their name for the third time following legal challenges to their previous name.

Half of the MPs in the newly born political party have also fecked off to go solo as actual independent MPs.

 

 

Edited June 13, 2019 by Cade

[Notts1874]

Chukka now a Lib Dem. Make your mind up man.

[ri Alban]

Chuka, The man is a laughing stock. He needs to quit.

[A Boy Named Crow]

On 14/06/2019 at 07:25, ri Alban said:

Chuka, The man is a laughing stock. He needs to quit.

He’s probably a bit unfortunate. He’d fit right in with the Blairite Labour folk, or with a more moderate Conservative party. His problem is both parties have slid out to be extreme parodies of themselves, leaving him in the middle. Lib Dems are probably his best bet. He has come out of this looking a bit silly though.

[jumpship]

Brexit, taking back control then losing it all, when renegotiating trade deals. 

 

NHS - America 

Security - Chinese

Everything else - Everyone else.  

[Cade]

Govt thinktank has come up with another (old) plan for the NI border.

 

Trying to make a "special economic zone" that extends 30 miles on each side of the border, with border checks happening at the borders to these new phantom borders so that there is no hard border on the actual border.

In effect, making two new hard borders to avoid one hard border.

Bonkers.

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

14 minutes ago, Cade said:

Govt thinktank has come up with another (old) plan for the NI border.

 

Trying to make a "special economic zone" that extends 30 miles on each side of the border, with border checks happening at the borders to these new phantom borders so that there is no hard border on the actual border.

In effect, making two new hard borders to avoid one hard border.

Bonkers.

The EU already know the Tories plan - go easy on NI and they think the EU will make the French/English border the same. 

 

It's never going to happen. 

[Cade]

Indeed.

This plan has already been put forward in 2017 and was quickly shot down by the EU.

 

 

[frankblack]

5 hours ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

The EU already know the Tories plan - go easy on NI and they think the EU will make the French/English border the same. 

 

It's never going to happen. 

 

Its that or a no deal Brexit in October.  Ball is in EU's court.

 

In addition, if parliament doesn't vote for a deal we leave in October on a no deal.