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Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )


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3 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Wow. Have some people really just woken up to the fact there has been widespread "foreign interference" in elections in the UK and other western democracies (and well beyond) by among others the USA (probably the biggest culprit ) and the USSR /Russia for at least the last 70 years.

Don't the members of the Select Committee read any history to inform their opinions?

 

 

Pretty sure we are guilty of doing the same to others as well.

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9 minutes ago, Cade said:

100% bang on. 

Under the EU/Japan trade deal, tariffs on cars are dropping from the current 20% down to 0% over the next seven years.

It'll be cheaper for Japanese car makers to build in Japan then ship them to Europe than build in the UK.

 

But some people will still blame brexit nevertheless, ce la vie.

 

Don't be shocked if other Japanese car plants elsewhere in the EU also close in the coming years, because like you say, it'll be cheaper to build them in Japan rather than building them in Europe, besides it'll help the Japanese economy as the jobs will go to Japanese workers paying tax in Japan and spending their wages in Japan.

 

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23 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

But some people will still blame brexit nevertheless, ce la vie.

 

Don't be shocked if other Japanese car plants elsewhere in the EU also close in the coming years, because like you say, it'll be cheaper to build them in Japan rather than building them in Europe, besides it'll help the Japanese economy as the jobs will go to Japanese workers paying tax in Japan and spending their wages in Japan.

 

If the UK wasn't leaving the EU, then it'd have 0% on Japanese cars too.

So it's 100% down to Brexit.

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Governor Tarkin
On 17/02/2019 at 15:42, The Mighty Thor said:

May and her coterie of shysters and spivs.

 

Lovely turn of phrase, that. :)

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It will interesting to see what these big compampies do if Brexit is canned or a favourable trade deal is negotiated. Will they reverse these decisions or pull out anyway and cost themselves money doing it.

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3 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

It will interesting to see what these big compampies do if Brexit is canned or a favourable trade deal is negotiated. Will they reverse these decisions or pull out anyway and cost themselves money doing it.

 

Think it's a "this country is a basketcase and we want no part of it regardless" sort of thing. Imagine having to put up with uncertainty like this multiple times going forward. Nah. They want "strong and stable". :kirklol:

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4 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Think it's a "this country is a basketcase and we want no part of it regardless" sort of thing. Imagine having to put up with uncertainty like this multiple times going forward. Nah. They want "strong and stable". :kirklol:

 

There’s no Party here that can offer that at the moment. Far to many factions and infighting. Maybe this Labour break away mob can be a start of something that will galvanise the country. 

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The Mighty Thor
2 hours ago, Cade said:

But but but but but it's just a business decision and nothing to do wi' brexit likes!

 

The fact that a hard brexit would be catastrophic for business and looks more likely by the day is only a pure coincidence.

 

:gok:

Project feeeer

 

It's all coming together nicely for those that crave the chaos of Brexit to make a buck. 

 

***** 

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, CJGJ said:

Honda now to close UK office and more with loss of 3500 jobs

 

Happy now Brexiteers..........leading the country to rack and ruin and still trying to justify it

 

Rich backers look to leave UK whilst telling the rest of us tough luck..sums many of them up

Car production is falling worldwide.

The brexit vote or rather the handling of the brexit vote adds uncertainty but it's not the catalyst.

 

When I read some of the posts on here I imagine screaming lesbians.

 

Not just you mate.

 

Sorry if I'm being rude.

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Hopefully any jobs lost can be replaced with something better than belting out more cars.

 

In case nobody noticed the planet's choking on the fumes.

 

 

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Seymour M Hersh
16 minutes ago, jake said:

Hopefully any jobs lost can be replaced with something better than belting out more cars.

 

In case nobody noticed the planet's choking on the fumes.

 

 

 

Better stop the roast turkey dinners as well then. Apparently they (RTD's), when cooking, spew out more particulates than cars.

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7 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Better stop the roast turkey dinners as well then. Apparently they (RTD's), when cooking, spew out more particulates than cars.

Don't eat them mate.

But on that note yes we need to overhaul food production.

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2 hours ago, Cade said:

If the UK wasn't leaving the EU, then it'd have 0% on Japanese cars too.

So it's 100% down to Brexit.

Project fear! We will build British cars!

Edited by IMac
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1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said:

I haven't heard much recently about how good it's going to be out of EU. 

 

They secured that trade deal with the Faroe Islands tbf.

 

The only downside of the deal is that our coastal towns now have to start herding pilot whales into bays before mercilessly butchering them to death.

 

A small price to pay to take back control I'm sure you'll agree. #leavemeansleave #letsgowto

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7 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

But some people will still blame brexit nevertheless, ce la vie.

 

Don't be shocked if other Japanese car plants elsewhere in the EU also close in the coming years, because like you say, it'll be cheaper to build them in Japan rather than building them in Europe, besides it'll help the Japanese economy as the jobs will go to Japanese workers paying tax in Japan and spending their wages in Japan.

 

 

I’ve worked in Swindon for 30 years. Honda have been strugglIng badly for 10 years or more and never fully recovered after the financial crash. THe plant currently operates at half capacity. While Brexit probably expedited its demise, it would probably have eventually closed anyway. There are huge overcapacity problems in the automotive industry worldwide and in Europe in particular.

 

3,500 jobs is a lot and a blow to the town but I’m confident it willing recover. The railworks, which were the reason for the towns’s Existence in the 1st place finally closed in 1986 with 2,500 job losses when the town was smaller and it continued to grow.

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6 hours ago, Cade said:

If the UK wasn't leaving the EU, then it'd have 0% on Japanese cars too.

So it's 100% down to Brexit.

 

It really isn’t, if it’s tariff free in Japan they’ll produce in Japan. That was literally the only reason Honda, Nissan or any other Japanese manufacturer moved here(Europe in general). They’re certainly not here because European quality standards or wages are cheaper.

 

I work for a major Japanese company in the U.K and even with ourselves it’s always been the same, any time there’s a ‘new product’ it’s a case of jumping through hoops to get it produced here as the Japanese government view any manufacturing job outside Japan as one ‘lost’ in Japan.

 

 

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Thunderstruck
6 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

But some people will still blame brexit nevertheless, ce la vie.

 

Don't be shocked if other Japanese car plants elsewhere in the EU also close in the coming years, because like you say, it'll be cheaper to build them in Japan rather than building them in Europe, besides it'll help the Japanese economy as the jobs will go to Japanese workers paying tax in Japan and spending their wages in Japan.

 

 

This is from Audi - 

 



Model changeovers, numerous political and economic uncertainties as well as the changeover to the new WLTP test cycle dominated business for Audi in Europe in 2018. Across all models, sales on the home continent fell by 13.6 percent to around 743,600 units over the year as a whole.

 

The introduction of WLTP has caused considerable disruption across the car manufacturing industry as companies struggle to implement testing and certification of models. Curiously, a number of petrol engines (particularly smaller ‘stressed’ engines such as those used by Honda) have not come out covered in glory. Diesel, on the other hand, has been less (in some cases positively) affected by the tests due to the race to reduce NOx and particulates - to the extent that diesel (Euro6) is cleaner than an equivalent petrol engine as well as churning out significantly less CO2. 

 

As for Honda, the Civic - made in Swindon - is sitting at around 40k European sales. That is roughly a third of the EU sales achieved for the Civic at the start of this decade. It has been suggested that Honda will cease production of the Civic in 2022 - perhaps lack of popularity as much as Brexit. 

 

As they say, ‘Never waste a good crisis’.

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

This is from Audi - 

 

 

 

 

The introduction of WLTP has caused considerable disruption across the car manufacturing industry as companies struggle to implement testing and certification of models. Curiously, a number of petrol engines (particularly smaller ‘stressed’ engines such as those used by Honda) have not come out covered in glory. Diesel, on the other hand, has been less (in some cases positively) affected by the tests due to the race to reduce NOx and particulates - to the extent that diesel (Euro6) is cleaner than an equivalent petrol engine as well as churning out significantly less CO2. 

 

As for Honda, the Civic - made in Swindon - is sitting at around 40k European sales. That is roughly a third of the EU sales achieved for the Civic at the start of this decade. It has been suggested that Honda will cease production of the Civic in 2022 - perhaps lack of popularity as much as Brexit. 

 

As they say, ‘Never waste a good crisis’.

 

 

 

 

Surely none of that even needs to happen given how well the UK is doing at deploying its legendary diplomatic skills in negotiating a new trade deal with the Japa-----------

 

 

--------oh, wait.  Ah, right.  :nuts:

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Governor Tarkin
15 hours ago, jake said:

Hopefully any jobs lost can be replaced with something better than belting out more cars.

 

In case nobody noticed the planet's choking on the fumes.

 

 

 

This is a good point, Jake.

 

The outskirts of every major town and city are littered with car dealership lots containing more cars than we could ever hope to need.

There must be an eye watering global glut of automobiles in a self perpetuating industry driven by big oil, advertising, and the old capitalist staple of conspicuous consumption.

 

I'm not convinced that growth is always good. Hopefully some innovative sort can come up with a plan to replace any lost jobs with a more sustainable and environmentally friendly alternative.

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14 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

This is a good point, Jake.

 

The outskirts of every major town and city are littered with car dealership lots containing more cars than we could ever hope to need.

There must be an eye watering global glut of automobiles in a self perpetuating industry driven by big oil, advertising, and the old capitalist staple of conspicuous consumption.

 

I'm not convinced that growth is always good. Hopefully some innovative sort can come up with a plan to replace any lost jobs with a more sustainable and environmentally friendly alternative.

The difficulty is that growth is needed- because with ageing population and the associated costs of same, tax revenues need to rise on a continual basis to meet increased "social spend"- health care/social care and so on.

For said growth to occur then wages and GDP need to rise.

Otherwise you meet growing spend by reducing living standards for everyone working through increased taxation.

Not sure how things can grow without using natural resources

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Thunderstruck
8 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

 

Surely none of that even needs to happen given how well the UK is doing at deploying its legendary diplomatic skills in negotiating a new trade deal with the Japa-----------

 

 

--------oh, wait.  Ah, right.  :nuts:

 

It seems that Honda were going down the route of moving production out of Swindon before the Brexit vote. Their new plant in Indiana (making CR-V, another Swindon model) opened in 2017 which means that design, planning and construction must have been well on the way before 2016. 

 

Honda’s earlier (not only yesterday) comments re Brexit now seem, being kind, misleading. 

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1 minute ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

It seems that Honda were going down the route of moving production out of Swindon before the Brexit vote. Their new plant in Indiana (making CR-V, another Swindon model) opened in 2017 which means that design, planning and construction must have been well on the way before 2016. 

 

Honda’s earlier (not only yesterday) comments re Brexit now seem, being kind, misleading. 

There would have been the same decision made if we had remained.

0% tariff for imported cars from Japan.

It makes sense for German car exports as well.

 

Btw I'm not saying the uncertainty of brexit has no effect.

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Governor Tarkin
1 hour ago, doctor jambo said:

The difficulty is that growth is needed- because with ageing population and the associated costs of same, tax revenues need to rise on a continual basis to meet increased "social spend"- health care/social care and so on.

For said growth to occur then wages and GDP need to rise.

Otherwise you meet growing spend by reducing living standards for everyone working through increased taxation.

Not sure how things can grow without using natural resources

 

Euthanasia, Doc.

 

Ever seen Logan's Run?

 

Could be a nice wee earner for you, buddy. :thumbsup:

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1 hour ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

This is a good point, Jake.

 

The outskirts of every major town and city are littered with car dealership lots containing more cars than we could ever hope to need.

There must be an eye watering global glut of automobiles in a self perpetuating industry driven by big oil, advertising, and the old capitalist staple of conspicuous consumption.

 

I'm not convinced that growth is always good. Hopefully some innovative sort can come up with a plan to replace any lost jobs with a more sustainable and environmentally friendly alternative.

 

1 hour ago, doctor jambo said:

The difficulty is that growth is needed- because with ageing population and the associated costs of same, tax revenues need to rise on a continual basis to meet increased "social spend"- health care/social care and so on.

For said growth to occur then wages and GDP need to rise.

Otherwise you meet growing spend by reducing living standards for everyone working through increased taxation.

Not sure how things can grow without using natural resources

The bigger picture is if we keep chasing growth in the manner we do it won't matter a jot about brexit ageing population .

 

What the answer is fek knows.

But it needs a 100% about turn.

 

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Governor Tarkin
Just now, jake said:

 

The bigger picture is if we keep chasing growth in the manner we do it won't matter a jot about brexit ageing population .

 

What the answer is fek knows.

But it needs a 100% about turn.

 

 

:spoton:

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Just now, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Euthanasia, Doc.

 

Ever seen Logan's Run?

 

Could be a nice wee earner for you, buddy. :thumbsup:

Won't need it mate.

Mother nature will provide a cull .

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Euthanasia, Doc.

 

Ever seen Logan's Run?

 

Could be a nice wee earner for you, buddy. :thumbsup:

I've never even heard of Jenny Agutter in the nip

giphy.gif

 

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Governor Tarkin
14 minutes ago, jake said:

Won't need it mate.

Mother nature will provide a cull .

 

 

 

 

... Nothing beside remains. Round the decay

Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare

The lone and level sands stretch far away.

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Meanwhile Nicola Sturgeon continues to promote Scotland around the World as an inclusive country open for business in Europe and elsewhere. She really must wake up every morning and thank God for Brexit, the Tories and Labour.

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50 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

 

... Nothing beside remains. Round the decay

Of that colossal Wreck, boundless and bare

The lone and level sands stretch far away.

What's that from mate?

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AlphonseCapone

I think this thread is a fair enough place to mention this but there's an excellent 3 part documentary series on BBC iplayer called Europe, 10 years of turmoil. The first episode is about Brexit (the 2nd the Economic crisis and Greece, the 3rd the migrant crisis). It has interviews with all the main players and behind the scene footage. 

 

Gives excellent insight into the way different nations and the EU think. Not to mention shows how utterly clueless the Tories have been at judging Europe and its motivations since before the referendum. 

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Seymour M Hersh
1 hour ago, XB52 said:

Meanwhile Nicola Sturgeon continues to promote Scotland around the World as an inclusive country open for business in Europe and elsewhere. She really must wake up every morning and thank God for Brexit, the Tories and Labour.

 

Has she had any success yet? Or just failures like Halls of Broxburn etc etc.

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Francis Albert
Just now, doctor jambo said:

The difficulty is that growth is needed- because with ageing population and the associated costs of same, tax revenues need to rise on a continual basis to meet increased "social spend"- health care/social care and so on.

For said growth to occur then wages and GDP need to rise.

Otherwise you meet growing spend by reducing living standards for everyone working through increased taxation.

Not sure how things can grow without using natural resources

Doesn't the bit about reducing living standards for everyone assume that the current distribution of income and in particular wealth and its continually increasing concentration in a small percentage of the population continues as in the past few decades? 

Edited by Francis Albert
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Gove admits that steep tariffs on food will be imposed in the event of a no-deal in order to "protect UK farmers".

This is because many UK farmers rely on EU subsidies to survive.

Britain doesn't produce anywhere near enough food to feed itself.

So you can expect prices to rise sharply.

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1 minute ago, Cade said:

Gove admits that steep tariffs on food will be imposed in the event of a no-deal in order to "protect UK farmers".

This is because many UK farmers rely on EU subsidies to survive.

Britain doesn't produce anywhere near enough food to feed itself.

So you can expect prices to rise sharply.

Project fear. 

 

Razor wire going up around my veg patch.

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Francis Albert
Just now, Cade said:

Gove admits that steep tariffs on food will be imposed in the event of a no-deal in order to "protect UK farmers".

This is because many UK farmers rely on EU subsidies to survive.

Britain doesn't produce anywhere near enough food to feed itself.

So you can expect prices to rise sharply.

I suppose an alternative would be to buy food from countries where it is cheaper to produce and hence doesn't require subsidy.

The common agriculture policy is one of the worst and most protectionist of the EU's inventions.

We subsidise relatively rich and uneconomic farmers at the epense of poorer and more economic farmers outside the EU.

 

Edited by Francis Albert
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AlphonseCapone
16 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

The devil is always in the detail. In this case the amount of and increase in trade with the rest of the U.K.  

 

 

It is in the detail. Of course as everyone knows we export more to the RUK (60%) versus eveywhere else (40%). No one can doubt its importance. 

 

The most interesting stat for me in relation to the original point by Seymour regarding whether these trips trips are successful is in regards to the 13.3% annual increase in EU Exports (which in raw numbers was only 0.5 billion less than the raw increase observed to the RUK). These stats relate to the period after the opening of the Dublin hub. Ireland is also in the top 5 international destinations for our Exports along with France and Germany which are two of the other locations we've opened up hubs in 2018 and 2019. It makes sense to me to open these hubs to focus on Exports to these nations. It'll be interesting to see what Brexit does in regards to this trade.

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1 hour ago, Cade said:

Gove admits that steep tariffs on food will be imposed in the event of a no-deal in order to "protect UK farmers".

This is because many UK farmers rely on EU subsidies to survive.

Britain doesn't produce anywhere near enough food to feed itself.

So you can expect prices to rise sharply.

 

 

The UK will reduce, maybe even eliminate, its imports from the EU because of tariffs.  Similarly the EU will reduce or eliminate its imports from the UK, because of tariffs.  That will leave the UK free to import its food from cheap sources with lower production, distribution and labelling standards instead of dealing with the high-cost Brussels bureaucratic system with its annoying rules, regulations and safety audit trails.  That's a win, isn't it?

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1 hour ago, Cade said:

Gove admits that steep tariffs on food will be imposed in the event of a no-deal in order to "protect UK farmers".

 

 

There won't be any means to impose such tariffs at the land frontier with the Irish Republic because of the British government's commitment to no hard border on this island.

 

Isn't that unfair treatment of England, Wales and Scotland?

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The Mighty Thor
1 hour ago, Cade said:

Gove admits that steep tariffs on food will be imposed in the event of a no-deal in order to "protect UK farmers".

This is because many UK farmers rely on EU subsidies to survive.

Britain doesn't produce anywhere near enough food to feed itself.

So you can expect prices to rise sharply.

and yet bizarrely UK farming came out strongly in favour of Brexit.= during the campaign. 

 

Doesn't look like that will work out too well for anyone then!

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5 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

and yet bizarrely UK farming came out strongly in favour of Brexit.= during the campaign. 

 

Doesn't look like that will work out too well for anyone then!

 

But surely if EU sources are subject to tariffs, that will help push up domestic farm gate prices?  And presumably if the UK is no longer in the EU the government will put some subsidy architecture in place for farmers with the money saved on contributions to the EU budget.  Why wouldn't farmers be in favour of that? 

Edited by Ulysses
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3 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

But surely if EU sources are subject to tariffs, that will help push up domestic farm gate prices?  And presumably if the UK is no longer in the EU the government will put some subsidy architecture in place for farmers with the money saved on contributions to the EU budget.  Why wouldn't farmers be in favour of that? 

Small problem. there will be no savings... 

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57 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

There won't be any means to impose such tariffs at the land frontier with the Irish Republic because of the British government's commitment to no hard border on this island.

 

Isn't that unfair treatment of England, Wales and Scotland?

 

Someone tell me how I can invest money in Greenore Port -- the Cooley peninsula is going to be the new Dubai....

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28 minutes ago, Ugly American said:

 

.... the Cooley peninsula is going to be the new Dubai....

 

 

I hope not.  Cooley's one of my favourite places.

 

Carlingford-Harbour-Copy.jpg

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  • davemclaren changed the title to Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

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