Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[Jambo-Jimbo]

2 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Marr could and should have nailed her to the wall. 

The EU have 'made some changes'? No they haven't you slavering bint.

 

Yet another easy ride from the BBC. Their journalistic quality and integrity is at an all time low even from their piss poor benchmark.

 

 

In case you've never noticed, who gets the first question whenever May gives a news conference?

 

I'll give you a clue, her first name beings with an L and her surname ends in berg.

 

That isn't a coincidence why the BBC gets first questions.

[Francis Albert]

People don't really believe the BBC has a pro-Brexit bias do they?

[Ulysses]

2 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

name beings with an L and her surname ends in berg.

 

"Look out - it's a ****ing iceberg!"

 

Am I right? 

 

BBC are probably in favour of the deal, so it's no surprise if they give May an easy time.

 

And what harm if she gives a few MPs a fig leaf for voting for her deal?

[AlimOzturk]

14 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

People don't really believe the BBC has a pro-Brexit bias do they?

 

Yes I do. I am not massively into conspiracy theories but It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if there was a government influence somewhere in the BBC. After all they are part of the same Peado club. 

[JamboX2]

On 05/01/2019 at 14:44, coconut doug said:

Surely if the Deal is accepted by parliament or in a referendum the government is vindicatedand would not resign. 

 

Indeed. That is the sad reality. My hope would be an acceptance that no voter has been asked about their views on the future relationship. 

 

However under the Fixed Term Parliament Act there would need to also be a vote to hold an election. So resignation wouldn't be enough either. 

 

On 05/01/2019 at 14:44, coconut doug said:

 

Isn't your frequent reference to natioal unity government ridiculous in this political climate? Is it not just a personal desire to get closer to the Tories?

 

On your last point no. Left-Right coalitions aren't alien in Germany and Holland or in France with co-habitation between different parties in the presidency and National Assembly.

 

Attlee, Morrison, Bevin, Greenwood, Cripps and the Red Clydesider Thomas Johnston all sat in a unity government and could hardly be described as being Tories. The simple fact is this is perhaps the greatest period of instability we are entering in our nation's history since world war two. Worse than Suez. Worse than the financial crisis. It is a reshaping of our place in the world and how we organise our economy. Frankly, to me, a National Unity Government would force a consensual approach, sideline the "hard" elements and hopefully get a future deal people can accept.

 

The climate is as it is because of the overly tribal nature in our national politics at the moment. And because we have - across all parties - a low level of politician in command. It's all pretty woeful to be honest.

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

People don't really believe the BBC has a pro-Brexit bias do they?

I think a lot of people feel that the BBC gives this Tory government a free pass. There's no scrutiny whatsoever. 

Are the BBC pro Brexit? To a degree yes. They're playing the game, hedging their bets, waiting to see which division of Toryism wins the arm wrestle over Brexit. 

They'll be on message this next fortnight. You can bet your bollocks on that.

[ri Alban]

3 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

People don't really believe the BBC has a pro-Brexit bias do they?

They're what the government wants. They're not pro remain, that's for sure.

[JamboX2]

4 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

People don't really believe the BBC has a pro-Brexit bias do they?

 

No. I don't think as an institution it is. Some of its broadcasters are. But some are pro-Remain, pro-independence, Labour, Tory, Liberal etc.

 

I think they're an excellent public service broadcaster and we would be poorer without it.

 

They are, however, massively dumbed down. They're coverage (to me) is fairly impartial. But I do think it's largely being left behind in terms of the quality of its coverage by Channel 4. Which is hard hitting. 

 

Then again I think 24 Hour rolling news coverage is counter-productive to effective scrutiny and assessment of events. And therein lies the BBC's (and Sky News) failing; it sensationalises mediocre events and as a result appears to fail to cover other issues.

 

It's a public service broadcaster, it should divest in so much "cheap" (light) entertainment and focus on documentaries and investigative journalism. 

Edited January 6, 2019 by JamboX2

[Cade]

Maybot begging the EU to give ground again.

 

From the morning after the referendum result, the EU has consistently said "Here are our rules, we will be sticking to them no matter what".

And for two years we've been asking them to break those rules.

We're hapless, hopeless and heading right up jobby creek.

[NANOJAMBO]

5 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

People don't really believe the BBC has a pro-Brexit bias do they?

I did , until I read "Unleashing Demons". The Better In campaign were constantly complaining to Dir Gen of BBC that the Brexit campaign were telling blatant lies (eg Turkey joining EU , lack of UK veto over Turkey joining) asking that BBC should counter the blatant lies and  up the actual facts. Perception was that BBC was afraid to do so after ITV were outright threatened by Leave Campaign when they did so. 

 

The book also gives a very good insight as to how Maybot dealt with the campaign. She refused to commit to any position until she absolutely had to and was perceived by Cameron staffers as using Brexit to get the party leadership. She was nicknamed "submarine" as she frequently disappeared for long periods and only communicated , at  a minimum,  when it was necessary. 

[ri Alban]

7 hours ago, JamboX2 said:

 

No. I don't think as an institution it is. Some of its broadcasters are. But some are pro-Remain, pro-independence, Labour, Tory, Liberal etc.

 

I think they're an excellent public service broadcaster and we would be poorer without it.

 

They are, however, massively dumbed down. They're coverage (to me) is fairly impartial. But I do think it's largely being left behind in terms of the quality of its coverage by Channel 4. Which is hard hitting. 

 

Then again I think 24 Hour rolling news coverage is counter-productive to effective scrutiny and assessment of events. And therein lies the BBC's (and Sky News) failing; it sensationalises mediocre events and as a result appears to fail to cover other issues.

 

It's a public service broadcaster, it should divest in so much "cheap" (light) entertainment and focus on documentaries and investigative journalism. 

Pro independence.            ...

[JamboX2]

2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Pro independence.            ...

 

Brian Taylor and Glen Campbell always seem quite sympathetic to independence leaning politicians.

 

In an organisation that size there are bound to be people who'd back it. And back all other persuasions.

[Francis Albert]

10 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

I did , until I read "Unleashing Demons". The Better In campaign were constantly complaining to Dir Gen of BBC that the Brexit campaign were telling blatant lies (eg Turkey joining EU , lack of UK veto over Turkey joining) asking that BBC should counter the blatant lies and  up the actual facts. Perception was that BBC was afraid to do so after ITV were outright threatened by Leave Campaign when they did so. 

 

The book also gives a very good insight as to how Maybot dealt with the campaign. She refused to commit to any position until she absolutely had to and was perceived by Cameron staffers as using Brexit to get the party leadership. She was nicknamed "submarine" as she frequently disappeared for long periods and only communicated , at  a minimum,  when it was necessary. 

The author Craig Oliver was of course David Cameron's Director of Communication from 2012 until Cameron resigned. Perhaps not the most disinterested source?

[NANOJAMBO]

28 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

The author Craig Oliver was of course David Cameron's Director of Communication from 2012 until Cameron resigned. Perhaps not the most disinterested source?

Possibly. IMO it doesn't detract from valid criticisms of the compliant role played by the BBC in this fiasco. He also names names and specific events so I'm prepared to accept the veracity of his comments. 

[ri Alban]

7 hours ago, JamboX2 said:

 

Brian Taylor and Glen Campbell always seem quite sympathetic to independence leaning politicians.

 

In an organisation that size there are bound to be people who'd back it. And back all other persuasions.

No, they're just fair. Unlike Jackie Bird and all those who've managed to end up on the main BBC down south.

[JamboX2]

1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

No, they're just fair. Unlike Jackie Bird and all those who've managed to end up on the main BBC down south.

 

So you're confirming this is all down to the subjective biases of the viewers in question. Grand.

 

As for your last point... jeeze-oh. Someone's choice of career progression means zip to you; why should someone who covered (say) Aberdeenshire for 6 years not go for a BBC posting in London covering Transport or for a BBC post abroad? In an indy Scotland would you say the same for those choosing to work in England or elsewhere? 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Some of what’s been going on with Anna Soubry is quite scary tbh. Something awful is going to come of this

[Jambo100]

Have a referendum a real one.Everyone gets a vote .If we want to leave 40% needed of total  votes issued. Same as 1979 Scottish referendum.

[JamboX2]

12 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

Some of what’s been going on with Anna Soubry is quite scary tbh. Something awful is going to come of this

 

Given one MP has already been murdered in the "Brexit era" it already has. We seem to have ignored a pretty major red flag already.

[The Mighty Thor]

1 minute ago, JamboX2 said:

 

Given one MP has already been murdered in the "Brexit era" it already has. We seem to have ignored a pretty major red flag already.

Wait until the hard Brexit doesn't materialise and the lunatic fringe will be out in force 

[NANOJAMBO]

6 hours ago, Jambo100 said:

Have a referendum a real one.Everyone gets a vote .If we want to leave 40% needed of total  votes issued. Same as 1979 Scottish referendum.

We've had a similar discussion down here (in England). They didn't understand. They don't believe it happened. Honest. 

[ri Alban]

Shocking treatment Anna Soubray had to put up with.

[Geoff the Mince]

7 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Shocking treatment Anna Soubray had to put up with.

Agreed ; bunch of ****in cowards abusing and harassing her .

 

The lowlife thick wanks should be ashamed .

[Governor Tarkin]

14 hours ago, JamboX2 said:

 

So you're confirming this is all down to the subjective biases of the viewers in question. Grand.

 

As for your last point... jeeze-oh. Someone's choice of career progression means zip to you; why should someone who covered (say) Aberdeenshire for 6 years not go for a BBC posting in London covering Transport or for a BBC post abroad? In an indy Scotland would you say the same for those choosing to work in England or elsewhere? 

 

He's implying that they are traitors.

[Governor Tarkin]

1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

Shocking treatment Anna Soubray had to put up with.

 

Agreed.

[JamboX2]

52 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

He's implying that they are traitors.

 

Mature response to have in the 21st century.

Edited January 8, 2019 by JamboX2

[doctor jambo]

53 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Agreed.

You reckon?

 

For people who cause such distress and upheaval to the lives of people they are getting away enormously lightly .

The French would be burning cars.

No way the continentals/ south Americans etc would be as calm as the very passive Brits have been.

Look at the Catalans/ Spanish.

Or the Greeks/ Turks

Riots, protests, civil disobedience.

Someone called her a name!

Ambulance drivers/firemen/nurses/police and paramedics all suffer worse every day.

Last week there was a trial after a GP was stabbed in the stomach at his work by a P'd off patient.

Considering the assaults on public sector workers the politicians are wrapped in cotton wool

[Cade]

We've already had one MP assassinated by the far right.

 

 

[Governor Tarkin]

14 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

You reckon?

 

For people who cause such distress and upheaval to the lives of people they are getting away enormously lightly .

The French would be burning cars.

No way the continentals/ south Americans etc would be as calm as the very passive Brits have been.

Look at the Catalans/ Spanish.

Or the Greeks/ Turks

Riots, protests, civil disobedience.

Someone called her a name!

Ambulance drivers/firemen/nurses/police and paramedics all suffer worse every day.

Last week there was a trial after a GP was stabbed in the stomach at his work by a P'd off patient.

Considering the assaults on public sector workers the politicians are wrapped in cotton wool

 

See Cade's post above.

 

Where would you draw the line, Doc'?

[Geoff the Mince]

23 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

You reckon?

 

For people who cause such distress and upheaval to the lives of people they are getting away enormously lightly .

The French would be burning cars.

No way the continentals/ south Americans etc would be as calm as the very passive Brits have been.

Look at the Catalans/ Spanish.

Or the Greeks/ Turks

Riots, protests, civil disobedience.

Someone called her a name!

Ambulance drivers/firemen/nurses/police and paramedics all suffer worse every day.

Last week there was a trial after a GP was stabbed in the stomach at his work by a P'd off patient.

Considering the assaults on public sector workers the politicians are wrapped in cotton wool

The guys who have been abusing Anna Soubray are Tommy Robinson fanboys . If they carry on the way they are it will lead to violence . Bunch of cowards ! 

[Francis Albert]

19 minutes ago, Geoff the Mince said:

The guys who have been abusing Anna Soubray are Tommy Robinson fanboys . If they carry on the way they are it will lead to violence . Bunch of cowards ! 

Tommy Robinson fanboys accusing her of being a Nazi? Thought they'd regard that as a compliment.

 

[Governor Tarkin]

1 minute ago, Francis Albert said:

Tommy Robinson fanboys accusing her of being a Nazi? Thought they'd regard that as a compliment.

 

 

Says as much as you need to know about the ideological clarity of your average Robinson fanboy.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

Sadly it was only a matter a time before there was an incident.

As soon as the News organisations set up camp on college green their presence was always going to attract protestors and sooner or later the nutters would latch onto it as they knew that the news was running live 24/7 and they would get the air time and oxygen they desired.

 

[Victorian]

Never before has any minority goverment,  compounded by being being abjectly split within itself,  operated with such dictatorial,  authoritarian conceit.

 

Some may blame the opposition but the truth is that it is our parliamentary system as a whole to blame.     After this shitfest is over there should be a drastic modernisation of how parliament operates and an effective set of checks and balances to prevent any future governments from acting so recklessly and against the national interest and sovereign will of parliament.

 

May acts like a dictator because she knows she can.

[doctor jambo]

1 hour ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

See Cade's post above.

 

Where would you draw the line, Doc'?

I honestly don't know!

When the behaviour of politicians, and what they are doing at present is causing such harm to people, so much anger , without any way for people to "vent".

When the PM is ramming our futures into a wall, and avoiding "choice" at all costs and playing with the lives and livelihoods of tens of millions of people.

When there is no "outlet" for people to be listened to , no means for the public to be heard - or even to vote for years to come ( by which stage it will be too late!)

Public unrest is inevitable.

Most of us have worked and slaved through a 10+ year deep recession, things have never improved, and are about to get worse- if the politicians WONT LISTEN to sanity, then this is what happens.

Riots and civil unrest tend to be caused by politicians , yet claim the lives of police and civilians.

The politicians invited trouble, and well, they have it

[Governor Tarkin]

3 minutes ago, doctor jambo said:

I honestly don't know!

When the behaviour of politicians, and what they are doing at present is causing such harm to people, so much anger , without any way for people to "vent".

When the PM is ramming our futures into a wall, and avoiding "choice" at all costs and playing with the lives and livelihoods of tens of millions of people.

When there is no "outlet" for people to be listened to , no means for the public to be heard - or even to vote for years to come ( by which stage it will be too late!)

Public unrest is inevitable.

Most of us have worked and slaved through a 10+ year deep recession, things have never improved, and are about to get worse- if the politicians WONT LISTEN to sanity, then this is what happens.

Riots and civil unrest tend to be caused by politicians , yet claim the lives of police and civilians.

The politicians invited trouble, and well, they have it

 

I'm with you on that, Doc, and agree with Vic's post as well, but the folk giving Soubary a hard time aren't exactly a representative cross-section of the disafected.

[doctor jambo]

19 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

I'm with you on that, Doc, and agree with Vic's post as well, but the folk giving Soubary a hard time aren't exactly a representative cross-section of the disafected.

Indeed - the similarities with the current referees situation is uncanny.

 

The extremist bangers acting out what the sane majority feel

[ri Alban]

4 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

He's implying that they are traitors.

Implying they were well looked after.

[Governor Tarkin]

1 minute ago, ri Alban said:

Implying they were well looked after.

 

Bought and sold for English gold, eh.

[ri Alban]

Just now, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Bought and sold for English gold, eh.

BBC gold.

[Governor Tarkin]

1 minute ago, ri Alban said:

BBC gold.

 

EBC surely?

[ri Alban]

3 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

EBC surely?

X2 has fecked off to London, that's why he's a bit touchy.

Edited January 8, 2019 by ri Alban

[Governor Tarkin]

Just now, ri Alban said:

X2 has fecked off to London, that's why he's a bit touchy.

 

Got to follow the money, honey.

[Mikey1874]

2 hours ago, Victorian said:

Never before has any minority goverment,  compounded by being being abjectly split within itself,  operated with such dictatorial,  authoritarian conceit.

 

Some may blame the opposition but the truth is that it is our parliamentary system as a whole to blame.     After this shitfest is over there should be a drastic modernisation of how parliament operates and an effective set of checks and balances to prevent any future governments from acting so recklessly and against the national interest and sovereign will of parliament.

 

May acts like a dictator because she knows she can.

 

Tory party splits over Europe are more the issue and cause and the problem. For a government to fail to properly agree it's negotiating position (2 years ago) and then May to try to railroad the dedl through was never going to end well. 

[Victorian]

26 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Tory party splits over Europe are more the issue and cause and the problem. For a government to fail to properly agree it's negotiating position (2 years ago) and then May to try to railroad the dedl through was never going to end well. 

 

No minority government should ever have been able to act in the way this one has.    With utter contempt for all stakeholders.      Our parliamentary system is to blame for allowing these ***** to have done what they've done.

[Cade]

I love when Brexiters bleat on about "the undemocratic EUSSR" when willfully ignoring the utter shambles over the last two years which has only served to show how corrupt, arcane, byzantine and just plain shady the Westminster political system really is.

 

The sitting government have, at every stage, attempted to bypass Parliament, withheld documents from Parliament, used every trick in the book and ancient rules to avoid being held to account by Parliament.

 

The EU 27 must be loving watching this.

[Francis Albert]

It is Soubry not Soubary.

 

Anyway MPs are quite right to be concerned about the failings of police in the vicinity of Parliament.

 

Maybe they might get round to the failings of the largely invisible Met in the parts of London where there are daily, sometimes hourly victims of knife crimes and almost weekly deaths.

[Governor Tarkin]

4 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

It is Soubry not Soubary.

 

 

TomAto, tomato.

[Francis Albert]

1 minute ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

TomAto, tomato.

Soobrie,  Soobarie.

[Francis Albert]

7 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

I honestly don't know!

When the behaviour of politicians, and what they are doing at present is causing such harm to people, so much anger , without any way for people to "vent".

When the PM is ramming our futures into a wall, and avoiding "choice" at all costs and playing with the lives and livelihoods of tens of millions of people.

When there is no "outlet" for people to be listened to , no means for the public to be heard - or even to vote for years to come ( by which stage it will be too late!)

Public unrest is inevitable.

Most of us have worked and slaved through a 10+ year deep recession, things have never improved, and are about to get worse- if the politicians WONT LISTEN to sanity, then this is what happens.

Riots and civil unrest tend to be caused by politicians , yet claim the lives of police and civilians.

The politicians invited trouble, and well, they have it

When Soubry and the hard Remainers responded to the "Peoples Vote" by  immediately setting out to reverse it, with every sign they will succeed in large measure, it is hardly surprising if some people feel they have no outlet.

 

Mogg and the hard Remainers, in refusing to contemplate any compromise with the 48% who voted Remain are equally culpable.

 

For all the incompetence May and the Government have shown the May deal seems to me a not unreasonable "neither wholly in or wholly out" compromise, especially if you believe in the EU's good faith (as surely most Remainers must) in implementing the terms of the "political declaration" on the future relationship between the UK and the EU.