Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[Mikey1874]

Some commentators are suggesting new wording is even worse, hardening the EU position. 

 

 

Edited December 13, 2018 by Mikey1874

[pablo]

8 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Pretty certain we'll be leaving on 29 March 

 

I don't think we will. I mentioned it earlier, but without throwing numbers around nobody (on either side) is ready, or will be ready for UK trade in short sea channels to switch to WTO terms. Or put it this way, it either gets kicked down the road or there's going to be chaos.

 

And opening up the borders isn't an option as there's a lot of money at stake in duties and tariffs.

 

 

[Victorian]

I hope the EU strategy is to guarantee the May deal is shat on by parliament and that it will lead to a further referendum (remain result) or another government who will postpone article 50 and renegotiate a softer Brexit (no demented red lines).     

[The Mighty Thor]

May getting the non from our European neighbours is the least surprising thing since Friday following Thursday.

 

She won the battle the other night but she's needing snookers here. 

[Cruyff Turn]

Surely the only way forward for May which respects the outcome of the vote and re-unites her Party is to walk away from

negotiations. 

[Unknown user]

6 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said:

Surely the only way forward for May which respects the outcome of the vote and re-unites her Party is to walk away from

negotiations. 

What negotiations? 

[Cruyff Turn]

4 minutes ago, Smithee said:

What negotiations? 

Indeed, true story. 

[Unknown user]

7 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said:

Indeed, true story. 

This is reality now. The deal is negotiated and the EU have zero interest in giving the uk a better one. They can't have their members looking at the situation and thinking "that could be us." 

 

And we have no power in this, for all the talk that they need us, they've just added a nation of 120 million to their free trade agreement, they've already mitigated the loss of the uk while we've been getting nowhere. 

 

The piece of shit we've negotiated is the end point, the only thing left to go is to get it passed by parliament then we discuss the transition period with the EU. If we can't do that we're out on our arse in March, and I can't emphasise enough how terrible that would be for us.

[Victorian]

19 minutes ago, Smithee said:

This is reality now. The deal is negotiated and the EU have zero interest in giving the uk a better one. They can't have their members looking at the situation and thinking "that could be us." 

 

And we have no power in this, for all the talk that they need us, they've just added a nation of 120 million to their free trade agreement, they've already mitigated the loss of the uk while we've been getting nowhere. 

 

The piece of shit we've negotiated is the end point, the only thing left to go is to get it passed by parliament then we discuss the transition period with the EU. If we can't do that we're out on our arse in March, and I can't emphasise enough how terrible that would be for us.

 

The deal as it is guarantees a transition period.     No deal means no transition.

 

There has been talk about the so-called 'managed no deal' but to be perfectly honest,   this concept has absolutely no credibility in terms of certainty, stability,  continuity,  business confidence.      It is a notional scenario hawked around by no deal protagonists who are quite happy to dress no deal as something else entirely.     Because they fear Brexit being reversed or watered down.

 

No deal... but everything will be fine.  Just fine.  Nothing to worry about.

 

No thanks.     

 

Edited December 14, 2018 by Victorian

[Mikey1874]

EU announcing their No Deal preparations next week 19 Dec. 

[Cruyff Turn]

22 minutes ago, Smithee said:

This is reality now. The deal is negotiated and the EU have zero interest in giving the uk a better one. They can't have their members looking at the situation and thinking "that could be us." 

 

And we have no power in this, for all the talk that they need us, they've just added a nation of 120 million to their free trade agreement, they've already mitigated the loss of the uk while we've been getting nowhere. 

 

The piece of shit we've negotiated is the end point, the only thing left to go is to get it passed by parliament then we discuss the transition period with the EU. If we can't do that we're out on our arse in March, and I can't emphasise enough how terrible that would be for us.

May’s deal won’t get through Parliament, not a chance but I bet she wishes now she put it to a vote before being embarrassed in Europe again yesterday. At least then she could turn it onto Parliament and say you never took the deal so now it’s No Deal and everyone is to blame.

 

She’s quickly running out of options now. She either walks away, stops the whole process or calls another Ref on Remain or No deal. If there is another Ref and the vote flips to a narrow remain, there will be a lot of angry and disenfranchised people and they might not be docile enough to accept that peacefully. That would be suicide for the Tories.

 

I think it has always been a pretty black and white scenario, it was always remain or no deal leave because they never took into account N.Ireland and the problems that would arise making any deal frankly impossible.

 

I agree, a no deal as predicted will be a disaster for the U.K.economy, it will potentially lead to the break up of the U.K., a run on the pound, a collapse of financial services, agriculture, fishing etc in the short-medium term.. but this is what England wanted so she is just going to have to take it on the chin and deal with whatever happens next. 

 

The opposition, Labour, are quite happy to let her crack on. I believe they’d win a no confidence motion as the Tory rebels hate the EU and May that much. They are too spineless however and are happy to let the Tories take the hit. People losing their jobs is great for Labour and the Unions. Labour Corbynites hate the EU anyway and they know that once the Private sector is eroded by a No Deal, they can start to buy back and re-nationalise everything and turn the U.K. into their Socialist wet dream. 

[pablo]

 

Stating the obvious here, but it's such a shite state of affairs. Brexit weakens the UK and weakens the EU. Just at a time where we should strengthen to face a changing world together. Madness in my opinion. 

[Victorian]

11 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

Stating the obvious here, but it's such a shite state of affairs. Brexit weakens the UK and weakens the EU. Just at a time where we should strengthen to face a changing world together. Madness in my opinion. 

 

Aye but a minority of people need to think we're taking back control of our laws and stopping people coming in and hoovering up all our jobs and housing.

[Francis Albert]

11 hours ago, Cade said:

Remember that WTO is not an automatic given.

 

Several nations have said they would block the UK from using WTO rules, leaving us with nothing as a backstop.

 

We'd have to arrange individual tariffs with every single nation on earth in a matter of hours to prevent a complete meltdown, and pay any tariffs they ask for.

 

 

That's a new one to me. What nations have said this and on what grounds? The UK is a member of WTO and trades with most of the world under WTO rules. Why would we have to arrange individual tariffs with the USA for example? WTO members can't pick and choose which other members of WTO to apply WTO rules to.

[SE16 3LN]

Can't believe the EU's attitude on this. When the Euro turned to shit they were  pushing their young people down the tunnel to get jobs in the UK and save their own skins. Now...

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

Can't believe the EU's attitude on this. When the Euro turned to shit they were  pushing their young people down the tunnel to get jobs in the UK and save their own skins. Now...

They're elected politicians too, they can't look weak to their electorates. And anyway they don't particularly want Britain to leave and don't want their other members to think leaving is a good idea. 

They're putting the interests of 450 million EU citizens before the interests of 60 million who want out, which is exactly as it should be. 

[The Mighty Thor]

34 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Aye but a minority of people need to think we're taking back control of our laws and stopping people coming in and hoovering up all our jobs and housing.

Technically a majority of 52%

 

[The Mighty Thor]

29 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

Can't believe the EU's attitude on this. When the Euro turned to shit they were  pushing their young people down the tunnel to get jobs in the UK and save their own skins. Now...

Which bit can you not believe?

 

The UK is leaving the EU. 52% of the country took the enlightened decision to walk away from the 27 member capitalist superstate. 

 

Did you expect the EU to crumble and come begging the huge global powerhouse that is the UK to stay or did it not cross your mind that they'd say, ok then, bye!

 

As for your second point, when the UK's economy goes to shit, early next year,  where are our young people going to go to save their own skins?

 

 

[Victorian]

22 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Technically a majority of 52%

 

 

Perhaps not though on the specific motives of laws and immigration.

 

You still see comments re immigration.    People are still convinced that leaving the EU = an instant end to outsiders coming here.    No amount of discussion re the benefits of immigration or the factual basis of how immigration will continue makes any difference.    

 

The referendum campaign has a lot of blame to shoulder.     There was completely insufficient care given to making a clear and detailed case for the various aspects of continued EU membership.      Leave fought the campaign on a narrow,  information vacuum basis.   Remain matched up on a like-for-like footing when it should have presented a carefully crafted,    persuasive case.

[jamboy1982]

I think everyone that voted leave should be identified if brexit goes ahead, so that they can shoulder the burden when the uk goes to pot. 

 

They voted for it it and they should be responsible for it. They should then pay massive taxes to cover the massive losses we’d suffer. They would have minimum access to the nhs, police, fire, schooling etc.

 

Finally I’d have them physically identifiable by having them wear some sort of symbol on their clothing. 

[AlphonseCapone]

2 minutes ago, jamboy1982 said:

I think everyone that voted leave should be identified if brexit goes ahead, so that they can shoulder the burden when the uk goes to pot. 

 

They voted for it it and they should be responsible for it. They should then pay massive taxes to cover the massive losses we’d suffer. They would have minimum access to the nhs, police, fire, schooling etc.

 

Finally I’d have them physically identifiable by having them wear some sort of symbol on their clothing. 

 

How about a star since they are all wee stars? 

[reaths17]

2 minutes ago, jamboy1982 said:

I think everyone that voted leave should be identified if brexit goes ahead, so that they can shoulder the burden when the uk goes to pot. 

 

They voted for it it and they should be responsible for it. They should then pay massive taxes to cover the massive losses we’d suffer. They would have minimum access to the nhs, police, fire, schooling etc.

 

Finally I’d have them physically identifiable by having them wear some sort of symbol on their clothing. 

some people have differing needs, fishermen would like you to be badged with minority voter for allowing faroe island fishermen to catch more fish in our waters than Scottish ones are.

 

brexit was set up to defeat democracy from the start. the people allowed to negotiate a deal are all remainers, the brexiteers that were involved all quit when they seen the terms they were being lumbered with, no remainers going to arrange a deal they don't want so they came up with one that was unacceptable to everyone so it would be dropped thus thwarting the democratic vote of the people, whether you agree with brexit or not, there was no way they were gonna do what the people wanted.

[The Real Maroonblood]

24 minutes ago, jamboy1982 said:

I think everyone that voted leave should be identified if brexit goes ahead, so that they can shoulder the burden when the uk goes to pot. 

 

They voted for it it and they should be responsible for it. They should then pay massive taxes to cover the massive losses we’d suffer. They would have minimum access to the nhs, police, fire, schooling etc.

 

Finally I’d have them physically identifiable by having them wear some sort of symbol on their clothing. 

[jamboy1982]

33 minutes ago, reaths17 said:

some people have differing needs, fishermen would like you to be badged with minority voter for allowing faroe island fishermen to catch more fish in our waters than Scottish ones are.

 

brexit was set up to defeat democracy from the start. the people allowed to negotiate a deal are all remainers, the brexiteers that were involved all quit when they seen the terms they were being lumbered with, no remainers going to arrange a deal they don't want so they came up with one that was unacceptable to everyone so it would be dropped thus thwarting the democratic vote of the people, whether you agree with brexit or not, there was no way they were gonna do what the people wanted.

 

I actually live in an area dominated by fisherman. Trust me they don’t need any extra help they are all minted!!!

 

the vote should never have been allowed in the first place. All it has proven is that people are generally stupid and vote on things without doing any research. As for your brexiteers who jumped ship. Well they  were mainly in it for what they could get for themselves. Once it became apparent they weren’t getting it they bolted. 

 

I reckon now that facts are in the public domain they could have a new vote and remain would be in excess of 60%

[mutley]

46 minutes ago, jamboy1982 said:

I think everyone that voted leave should be identified if brexit goes ahead, so that they can shoulder the burden when the uk goes to pot. 

 

They voted for it it and they should be responsible for it. They should then pay massive taxes to cover the massive losses we’d suffer. They would have minimum access to the nhs, police, fire, schooling etc.

 

Finally I’d have them physically identifiable by having them wear some sort of symbol on their clothing. 

The state pension should be the first thing to go when times get tough. Engineers shouting “That’s what you voted for” as they disconnect their power/gas

[Mikey1874]

Travel arrangements starting to be confirmed 

 

 

With some questions too

 

 

[Boab1874]

Over 45m votes not including the e u workers denied the vote.(they only live and pay tax in UK).How can 17m be the voice of the people.Under Tory union laws it would be illegal to go on strike with those figures.As for W T O rules we can use E U for 5-10 years but Spain will veto it.The fact is we cannot trade on W T O rules without a border in Ireland.That is against U K law.Any border In Ireland will break good Friday agreement which means sanctions against the U K.So we can trade with North Korea and Iran That is Fact.

 

[Mikey1874]

Some more info

 

 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 minute ago, Mikey1874 said:

Travel arrangements starting to be confirmed 

 

 

With some questions too

 

 

THe criminal convictions part may rule out a few million Brexiters from their holidays to Benidorm  

[The Real Maroonblood]

18 minutes ago, mutley said:

The state pension should be the first thing to go when times get tough. Engineers shouting “That’s what you voted for” as they disconnect their power/gas

I can take a hit on the state pension but as long as keep my bus pass.?

[Mikey1874]

Just now, JamesM48 said:

THe criminal convictions part may rule out a few million Brexiters from their holidays to Benidorm  

 

Same as USA 

 

 

[Mikey1874]

 

[Boab1874]

Why worry about the €7.The pound will be worth about 50 cents We will have no jobs so no money.Over €1 tn in investments  going to Frankfurt and that is now.

[Cade]

Pro-Brexit loons in hi-viz jackets are blocking Westminster Bridge. A pathetic attempt to copy the French.

Absolutely tragic.

[The Mighty Thor]

3 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Same as USA 

 

 

project fear.

 

Do these Johnny Foreigner types not know who we are?

 

We ran the world with our empire don't you know.  

[JudyJudyJudy]

2 minutes ago, Cade said:

Pro-Brexit loons in hi-viz jackets are blocking Westminster Bridge. A pathetic attempt to copy the French.

Absolutely tragic.

Not seen any reports as yet but ill hazard a guess that it mainly white , middle aged . tattooed overweight yobs. I may be wrong though 

[Mikey1874]

2 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

project fear.

 

Do these Johnny Foreigner types not know who we are?

 

We ran the world with our empire don't you know.  

 

Probably took the EU a long time to develop this.

 

UK better have something ready for 30 March. 

[Mikey1874]

4 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Not seen any reports as yet but ill hazard a guess that it mainly white , middle aged . tattooed overweight yobs. I may be wrong though 

 

 

[The Mighty Thor]

5 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Probably took the EU a long time to develop this.

 

UK better have something ready for 30 March. 

Someone like Ian Duncan Smith will be along shortly to threaten the EU with witholding the £39bn.

 

That'll show them.

 

 

[Boab1874]

As far as the E U goes stuff your £39bn.We will have your jobs. no N H S no welfare no pensions state and private.

[Victorian]

20 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Someone like Ian Duncan Smith will be along shortly to threaten the EU with witholding the £39bn.

 

That'll show them.

 

 

 

They can't treat us like this.   We're British.     Stand aside Fritz / Froggy.

[The Mighty Thor]

19 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Probably took the EU a long time to develop this.

 

UK better have something ready for 30 March. 

I suspect this may well be the start of the EU showing their hand and the preperations they've been making to cover the eventualities, whilst the UK Government has been pishing about picking fluff out it's belly button for the last 2 and a half years.

It would appear they've grasped the sincerity pf the situation better than the soundbite merchants over here.

 

All this does is turn the screw on this shambles of a government. Good. Hopefully it'll either flush them out or break their party in two permanently.

[Captain Sausage]

What a mess. 

 

How is anyone can still see Brexit as a positive thing is beyond me. It’s so overwhelmingly predictable that we are heading for a massive, long term financial penalty in exchange for what? No more immigrants? No more EU laws? Utterly bizzare.

 

We are currently one of the biggest partners in the largest trading bloc in the world. Statistically, EU immigrants contribute almost double the amount to the UK economy than they take out. EU laws are designed to protect the bloc, of which we are a key member and have a significant say in developing these. 

 

While feeling some some sympathy for May’s position, after what has happened this week, she needs to tell those in her party who tried to topple her to ram it.

 

1. Put her deal through parliament. It will get rejected. 

 

2. Second referendum. Cliff edge no deal or remain as per 2015. Postpone article 50 to allow the vote to take place.

 

3. If (when) remain wins, we move forward with the EU. If no deal wins, we exit EU and begin the new era of isolation. 

 

No no matter how this plays out, a significant minority of the population is going to be pissed off. The only logical outcome is to put it to a referendum, so at least we know it is a minority who are pissed off, not a majority. 

 

And before anyone comes in to say ‘wE aLrEaDy HaD a VoTe’, this time people will be clear on what the vote entails. No more lies, propaganda and slogans on a bus. Hard facts highlighting what will happen in the event of the vote going either way. We are so much better placed to make a decision. This is democracy. Preventing a second referendum is the antithesis of democracy, and the only people who don’t want it are Brexiteers, for obvious reasons. 

[Mikey1874]

Seems in talking to the EU May couldn't tell them what would get the support of MPs to pass the Deal. 

 

Hence the lack of any progress or real change some are reporting. 

 

So still UK isn't clear what it wants. 

Edited December 14, 2018 by Mikey1874

[Victorian]

14 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

Seems in talking to the EU May couldn't tell them what would get the support of MPs to pass the Deal. 

 

Hence the lack of any progress or real change some are reporting. 

 

So still UK isn't clear what it wants. 

 

She was hoping the EU had analysed the situation and would present her with a big bundle of side letters of understandings,  etc.     Pre-drafted and written out in best copperplate writing,   scented in Chanel's finest and tied together in one of Angela Merkel"s chiffon scarves.

[Pans Jambo]

1 hour ago, Captain Sausage said:

What a mess. 

 

How is anyone can still see Brexit as a positive thing is beyond me. It’s so overwhelmingly predictable that we are heading for a massive, long term financial penalty in exchange for what? No more immigrants? No more EU laws? Utterly bizzare.

 

We are currently one of the biggest partners in the largest trading bloc in the world. Statistically, EU immigrants contribute almost double the amount to the UK economy than they take out. EU laws are designed to protect the bloc, of which we are a key member and have a significant say in developing these. 

 

While feeling some some sympathy for May’s position, after what has happened this week, she needs to tell those in her party who tried to topple her to ram it.

 

1. Put her deal through parliament. It will get rejected. 

 

2. Second referendum. Cliff edge no deal or remain as per 2015. Postpone article 50 to allow the vote to take place.

 

3. If (when) remain wins, we move forward with the EU. If no deal wins, we exit EU and begin the new era of isolation. 

 

No no matter how this plays out, a significant minority of the population is going to be pissed off. The only logical outcome is to put it to a referendum, so at least we know it is a minority who are pissed off, not a majority. 

 

And before anyone comes in to say ‘wE aLrEaDy HaD a VoTe’, this time people will be clear on what the vote entails. No more lies, propaganda and slogans on a bus. Hard facts highlighting what will happen in the event of the vote going either way. We are so much better placed to make a decision. This is democracy. Preventing a second referendum is the antithesis of democracy, and the only people who don’t want it are Brexiteers, for obvious reasons. 

THIS

[Cade]

Michael Gove, attending a charity lunch in Glasgow:

"I'll be speaking to Steven Gerrard later and I'll ask him for advice on how to exit Europe in good order before Xmas"

 

 

Gove's still an odious little prick though.

[Martin_T]

1 hour ago, Captain Sausage said:

What a mess. 

 

How is anyone can still see Brexit as a positive thing is beyond me. It’s so overwhelmingly predictable that we are heading for a massive, long term financial penalty in exchange for what? No more immigrants? No more EU laws? Utterly bizzare.

 

We are currently one of the biggest partners in the largest trading bloc in the world. Statistically, EU immigrants contribute almost double the amount to the UK economy than they take out. EU laws are designed to protect the bloc, of which we are a key member and have a significant say in developing these. 

 

While feeling some some sympathy for May’s position, after what has happened this week, she needs to tell those in her party who tried to topple her to ram it.

 

1. Put her deal through parliament. It will get rejected. 

 

2. Second referendum. Cliff edge no deal or remain as per 2015. Postpone article 50 to allow the vote to take place.

 

3. If (when) remain wins, we move forward with the EU. If no deal wins, we exit EU and begin the new era of isolation. 

 

No no matter how this plays out, a significant minority of the population is going to be pissed off. The only logical outcome is to put it to a referendum, so at least we know it is a minority who are pissed off, not a majority. 

 

And before anyone comes in to say ‘wE aLrEaDy HaD a VoTe’, this time people will be clear on what the vote entails. No more lies, propaganda and slogans on a bus. Hard facts highlighting what will happen in the event of the vote going either way. We are so much better placed to make a decision. This is democracy. Preventing a second referendum is the antithesis of democracy, and the only people who don’t want it are Brexiteers, for obvious reasons. 

 

I genuinely think that any re-vote would be too close to call. If anything, those who voted Leave and Remain have simply further retrenched into their respective beliefs. Except for @Francis Albert of course, who voted remain but has spent the past two years passionately arguing the leave case.

 

David Cameron has left an embittered and divided society. Easily one of the worst Prime Ministers of all time.

[Cade]

Rumours are suggesting that the Scottish Tories are considering calling for a 2nd EU referendum.

And, even more strangely, they may be considering breaking away from Westminster entirely and forming a separate, independent Scottish Tory Party

 

Edited December 14, 2018 by Cade

[Joey J J Jr Shabadoo]

1 hour ago, Martin_T said:

 

I genuinely think that any re-vote would be too close to call. If anything, those who voted Leave and Remain have simply further retrenched into their respective beliefs. Except for @Francis Albert of course, who voted remain but has spent the past two years passionately arguing the leave case.

 

David Cameron has left an embittered and divided society. Easily one of the worst Prime Ministers of all time.

Totally agree. Especially the bit about the porcine molesting, runt.