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Brexit Negotiations

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Cade

The Great Repeal Henry VIII Power Grab Act being absolutely savaged in Parliament today, coming under attack from members of every party.

 

No danger is this being passed in anything like it's current form.

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jake

Voting to leave the EU isn't going to smash the capitalist system around the world, in fact, giving power to the right wing supporting free market and Wall Street stooges in Whitehall only enhances it.

 

No it wont.

But being part of it will dilute any future independant Scotland to nothing more than a region which will have less influence than it does in westminster.

 

And it always amazes me that pro indepemdence voters think Scotland can lead the way free from westminster but shut down the same argument in relation to the EU.

 

Independent Scotland and leave the EU.

 

Its the only way for me.

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jake

The Great Repeal Henry VIII Power Grab Act being absolutely savaged in Parliament today, coming under attack from members of every party.

 

No danger is this being passed in anything like it's current form.

 

Vive la democracy.

 

The EU could learn a thing or two.????

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Space Mackerel

No it wont.

But being part of it will dilute any future independant Scotland to nothing more than a region which will have less influence than it does in westminster.

 

And it always amazes me that pro indepemdence voters think Scotland can lead the way free from westminster but shut down the same argument in relation to the EU.

 

Independent Scotland and leave the EU.

 

Its the only way for me.

I don't think you really understand how the EU works jake.

 

Leaving the EU will negate me from bidding on contracts if I so desired and thus declining growth in this country. It's also more than likely going to push up prices as a lot of my materials are made in France and Italy.

 

Seems a massive price to pay across the board because you have to listen to a bit of Polish or whatever whilst waiting in the quacks surgery for a 10 mins longer.

Edited by Space Mackerel

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jake

I don't think you really understand how the EU works jake.

 

Leaving the EU will negate me from bidding on contracts if I so desired and thus declining growth in this country. It's also more than likely going to push up prices as a lot of my materials are made in France and Italy.

 

Seems a massive price to pay across the board because you have to listen to a bit of Polish or whatever whilst waiting in the quacks surgery for a 10 mins longer.

 

Ive got polish mates.

And greek.

Porrugese.

Romanian.

 

Its a big world space im sure your business could prosper .

Its called world trade and the EU is no more than a middle man.

 

Scotland cannot truly prosper in either union.

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jake

You should hear what polish and romanian think of the EU.

And have you noticed Polands attitude to immigration?

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Space Mackerel

The words "I'm sure" doesn't really cut it. It might do if your stacking trolleys outside Morrisons or selling shit in Sports Direct.

 

You're an idealist, but not a realist.

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Space Mackerel

You should hear what polish and romanian think of the EU.

And have you noticed Polands attitude to immigration?

You should go to Poland and see the upside down house and the train that that the Russians took thousands of them away to the Gulags. Just like the Germans.

 

This has nothing to do with Britain making ***** of themselves in 2017 though. :-D

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jake

The words "I'm sure" doesn't really cut it. It might do if your stacking trolleys outside Morrisons or selling shit in Sports Direct.

 

You're an idealist, but not a realist.

 

Ok space im not trading insults with you.

So i shall bid you goodnight and leave you to go back and forth with your regular sparring partners.

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jake

You should go to Poland and see the upside down house and the train that that the Russians took thousands of them away to the Gulags. Just like the Germans.

 

This has nothing to do with Britain making ***** of themselves in 2017 though. :-D

 

You should perhaps learn to heed your own advice .

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Smithee

You should hear what polish and romanian think of the EU.

And have you noticed Polands attitude to immigration?

Really? I have a lot of Polish mates because of the factory I work in, in fact, I have more Polish mates than dutch mates! They all think Britain is mental for leaving the EU, I took some slagging after the referendum result. They're all earning money and have a standard of living way beyond what they could get back home. I've never heard any of then say anything negative about the EU, ever.

 

So what do the Polish think of the EU in your opinion?

Edited by ManMoth

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Space Mackerel

It's gonna be funny as **** not being able to travel from Calais to Dover, but easy to float across a ferry from Larne to Stranraer after Brexit [emoji16]

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jake

Really? I have a lot of Polish mates because of the factory I work in, in fact, I have more Polish mates than dutch mates! They all think Britain is mental for leaving the EU, I took some slagging after the referendum result. They're all earning money and have a standard of living way beyond what they could get back home. I've never heard any of then say anything negative about the EU, ever.

 

So what do the Polish think of the EU in your opinion?

 

Its more about Polands attitude to non EU migrants that gets their back up tbh.

With what is happening back home .

 

 

 

But the Romanian guy and a couple of the polish see the EU as benefitting the German interests as its primary aim.

My Greek mate doesnt really want to be here and he and a couple of romanian workmates wax lyrical about how good life and working conditions were before the austerity measures hit Greece.

 

Which they blame the Germans for.

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Smithee

Its more about Polands attitude to non EU migrants that gets their back up tbh.

With what is happening back home .

 

 

 

But the Romanian guy and a couple of the polish see the EU as benefitting the German interests as its primary aim.

My Greek mate doesnt really want to be here and he and a couple of romanian workmates wax lyrical about how good life and working conditions were before the austerity measures hit Greece.

 

Which they blame the Germans for.

We're getting into really weak arguments here, I know a girl from Crete who's offended she has to try to find work twelve months of the year instead of just the 6 or 7 month tourist season now, thinks it isn't fair. But that doesn't mean Greeks think that for goodness sake!

 

95% of the people on here are Scottish and about the only thing we've agreed on in recent months is that True Romance is a cracking film, so you really can't say "this is what Greeks think"

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JamboX2

Because it's a capitalist gravy train, against state ownership of the means of production. Plenty of socialist reasons for leaving the eu, some I can appreciate. Unfortunately we are leaving for the completely opposite reasons.

Yet many EU nations have state run railways, airports, utility companies, national grids etc. And postal services...

 

 

...you can nationalise within the EU. I once believed you couldn't bit you can.

 

Scottish rail fares pay for Dutch railways but our taxes subsidise the Dutch rail operator... makes no sense!

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Smithee

Yet many EU nations have state run railways, airports, utility companies, national grids etc. And postal services...

 

 

...you can nationalise within the EU. I once believed you couldn't bit you can.

 

Scottish rail fares pay for Dutch railways but our taxes subsidise the Dutch rail operator... makes no sense!

Christ don't get me started on the Dutch train company - the service is great but their custumer service is a good argument against nationalisation! And of course, because there's no competitor, you just have to put up with it.

(Four months my accounts been on hold, and I've finally found out its because they owe me 2 euros! All that time I couldn't use my 40% discount card too so I've lost loads. I've tried complaining but I'd be as well pissing a complaint into a river)

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JamboX2

Christ don't get me started on the Dutch train company - the service is great but their custumer service is a good argument against nationalisation! And of course, because there's no competitor, you just have to put up with it.

(Four months my accounts been on hold, and I've finally found out its because they owe me 2 euros! All that time I couldn't use my 40% discount card too so I've lost loads. I've tried complaining but I'd be as well pissing a complaint into a river)

Hard to have a different competitor on the same tracks in fairness! Intercity routes here are increasingly a Virgin Trains monopoly and Scotland has one train operating company for passenger services. Makes sense to me to nationalise and recycle the money raised back into rail. Improved services would trump customer care to me haha.

 

A mate of mine lived in the Netherlands for a few years. Loved the place and especially the public transport. He's been back 2 years and still arguing for a tax rebate from 2 and a half years ago from the Dutch tax authorities. Bureaucracy is what is everywhere!

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Smithee

Hard to have a different competitor on the same tracks in fairness! Intercity routes here are increasingly a Virgin Trains monopoly and Scotland has one train operating company for passenger services. Makes sense to me to nationalise and recycle the money raised back into rail. Improved services would trump customer care to me haha.

 

A mate of mine lived in the Netherlands for a few years. Loved the place and especially the public transport. He's been back 2 years and still arguing for a tax rebate from 2 and a half years ago from the Dutch tax authorities. Bureaucracy is what is everywhere!

I should be fair, the actual public transport part of the service is pretty incredible. Funny enough I'm also fighting for a tax rebate of a few grand myself.

 

My biggest bugbear with the trains thing is that the reason for the problem wad that they suddenly decided I owed them 90 euros and blocked my account. Literally four months later with no one able to tell me why I owed this money, emails going unanswered and calls being abandoned I just paid it because it was costing a fortune on the trains.

I called to make sure they got the payment and that's when I found its all been nonsense, I didn't need to pay, someone just needed to hit the right button there. Because of the backlog, it'll take a couple of months for my refund to be processed.

 

Anyway, the point is that without any market forces, there's no reason for them to bother improving their customer care. They have no competitors and their contract won't be up for renewal soon so why spend the money improving systems and hiring more staff?

 

But again, the actual trains are brilliant - clean, frequent, they run on time, and most are double deckers!

Edited by ManMoth

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jake

We're getting into really weak arguments here, I know a girl from Crete who's offended she has to try to find work twelve months of the year instead of just the 6 or 7 month tourist season now, thinks it isn't fair. But that doesn't mean Greeks think that for goodness sake!

 

95% of the people on here are Scottish and about the only thing we've agreed on in recent months is that True Romance is a cracking film, so you really can't say "this is what Greeks think"

 

Agreed its weak.

You asked my experience though.

But initially i used it retorting to space.

But yes its weak argument.

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Boris

Yet many EU nations have state run railways, airports, utility companies, national grids etc. And postal services...

...you can nationalise within the EU. I once believed you couldn't bit you can.

Scottish rail fares pay for Dutch railways but our taxes subsidise the Dutch rail operator... makes no sense!

Bring back clause four!

 

That's refreshing to hear JX2. Thanks.

 

The railways and the Dutch really says it all.

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IMac

 

Take this into the negotiations with Claudy boy.

 

Comes with the added bonus that it is guaranteed to lead to meltdown and mass spontaneous combustion across university campuses.

Yep fair and balanced.

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elvoys

Yep fair and balanced.

Magna Carta. It all starts from there. The world owes us an incredible debt even as they struggle to live up to the standard of freedom we invented.

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Ulysses

Fog in channel, eh?  :laugh:

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Boris

Magna Carta. It all starts from there. The world owes us an incredible debt even as they struggle to live up to the standard of freedom we invented.

 

The British Empire was founded on slavery and subjegation of indigenous peoples, followed by the pillaging of their natural resources and ultimate economic control of their territory.

 

Yay freedom!

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Jambo-Jimbo

The British Empire was founded on slavery and subjegation of indigenous peoples, followed by the pillaging of their natural resources and ultimate economic control of their territory.

 

Yay freedom!

 

As was the French, German, Dutch, Belgian, Russian, Chinese, Japanese, Roman, Greek, Egyptian and on and on and on.

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JamboX2

The British Empire was founded on slavery and subjegation of indigenous peoples, followed by the pillaging of their natural resources and ultimate economic control of their territory.

 

Yay freedom!

Then when slavery was abolished the British fleet policed the Atlantic in a bid to prevent and stop the slave trade to the America, Brazil and the other colonial powers in the carribean.

 

For the bad there was also good.

Edited by JamboX2

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Adam Murray

Then when slavery was abolished the British fleet policed the Atlantic in a bid to prevent and stop the slave trade to the America, Brazil and the other colonial powers in the carribean.

 

For the bad there was also good.

 

 

Some people would rather beat the UK with a big stick though, bad, bad, bad UK, it's a wonder we have any kind of immigration problems, why would anyone want to come to live here?

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michael_bolton

The British Empire was founded on slavery and subjegation of indigenous peoples, followed by the pillaging of their natural resources and ultimate economic control of their territory.

 

Yay freedom!

 

Yes, it's always sensible to judge the actions of people living hundreds of years ago by today's standards.

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Cade

"Dear Mr EU negotiator.

 

The UK should get everything it wants and you should be eager to give it to us because you owe the British Empire a debt of gratitude.

 

Regards,

Kickback"

 

:rofl:

 

What a hoot!

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H2

Why is there any negitiation. The Vote was to leave Europe, lock stock and Barrel, not to choose or agree bits that politicians might want to keep. It is really simple, like it or not.

Politicians need to enforce what the voters wanted. It will be painful, it is a disaster for the UK, but that is what the vote was. Out of everything EU.

 

If it is selective then why not just negotiate out some bread and butter pudding law then carry on as normal.

 

The only reason it should take two years is so that both sides can ammend their laws and border facilities to accommodate.

 

There can be no single market agreement or negotiation as part of the exit, The UK voted it out.

 

Why is this being made to complex, it was a simple vote.

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zoltan socrates

As was the French, German, Dutch, Belgian, Russian, Chinese, Japanese, Roman, Greek, Egyptian and on and on and on.

dont forget the arabs who were at it long before us and still continue to this day

 

Amazing that some people like to revise history or rather cherry pick points to suit their agenda

 

The british empire encouraged trade, it protected in a military sense, it built infrastructure and it was our empire that first sought to end the slave trade

 

Yes our empire became rich but those that complain want to add up the free medical care and education they received n the back of iur empires success and pay it back if they believe their revisionism so fervently

 

I seee that junckers now wants a euro army, denied prior to brexit, and complete fiscal control of the region, completing hitlers work, aye good one

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SE16 3LN

Why is there any negitiation. The Vote was to leave Europe, lock stock and Barrel, not to choose or agree bits that politicians might want to keep. It is really simple, like it or not.

Politicians need to enforce what the voters wanted. It will be painful, it is a disaster for the UK, but that is what the vote was. Out of everything EU.

 

If it is selective then why not just negotiate out some bread and butter pudding law then carry on as normal.

 

The only reason it should take two years is so that both sides can ammend their laws and border facilities to accommodate.

 

There can be no single market agreement or negotiation as part of the exit, The UK voted it out.

 

Why is this being made to complex, it was a simple vote.

Funny guy.

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H2

Funny guy.

What's funny. My voting paper never had anything about negotiation on it, did yours?

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Jambo-Jimbo

dont forget the arabs who were at it long before us and still continue to this day

 

Amazing that some people like to revise history or rather cherry pick points to suit their agenda

 

The british empire encouraged trade, it protected in a military sense, it built infrastructure and it was our empire that first sought to end the slave trade

 

Yes our empire became rich but those that complain want to add up the free medical care and education they received n the back of iur empires success and pay it back if they believe their revisionism so fervently

 

I seee that junckers now wants a euro army, denied prior to brexit, and complete fiscal control of the region, completing hitlers work, aye good one

 

Juncker also wants to combine the roles of the President of the EU Commission & Council into one thus making an even more unelected powerful person.

 

There is one person I can think off who would fit right into that role, none other than Frau Merkel. 

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Boris

Then when slavery was abolished the British fleet policed the Atlantic in a bid to prevent and stop the slave trade to the America, Brazil and the other colonial powers in the carribean.

 

For the bad there was also good.

 

Yeah, I'm not denying that or saying that wasn't a good thing.

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elvoys

"Dear Mr EU negotiator.

 

The UK should get everything it wants and you should be eager to give it to us because you owe the British Empire a debt of gratitude.

 

Regards,

Kickback"

 

:rofl:

 

What a hoot!

 

 

Look up the Euro Convention Human Rights - conceived by Churchill and drafted by the Tory  David Maxwell Fyfe. Just like bible bashing conservative Wilberforce 150 years previously, it highlights the lie that liberalism is a product of the left or self-pronounced 'progressives'. 

 

Equally, the Universal Declaration of Human rights two years previously was almost entirely a concoction of UK common law and the US constitution. The biggest failure in that one (unlike ECHR) was allowing two thirds of the countries to sign it when they had no intention of following it.

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Boris

Look up the Euro Convention Human Rights - conceived by Churchill and drafted by the Tory  David Maxwell Fyfe. Just like bible bashing conservative Wilberforce 150 years previously, it highlights the lie that liberalism is a product of the left or self-pronounced 'progressives'. 

 

Equally, the Universal Declaration of Human rights two years previously was almost entirely a concoction of UK common law and the US constitution. The biggest failure in that one (unlike ECHR) was allowing two thirds of the countries to sign it when they had no intention of following it.

 

Sorry, the only time I hear comments about liberals and the left is usually pejoratively by "alt-right" spunk puffins.

 

The left don't necessarily see themselves as liberal, inclusive perhaps given their acceptance of equality, but liberal?  Meh.

 

A lie?  Who tells this lie?  See my first sentence.

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doctor jambo

The British Empire was founded on slavery and subjegation of indigenous peoples, followed by the pillaging of their natural resources and ultimate economic control of their territory.

 

Yay freedom!

The uncomfortable truth is that in a "godless" future based on Darwinism, with natural selection being the way forward for the species, and the basis of the human rise to power over our fellow simian ancestors who we co-habited with and wiped out

this is the way it should be

A more intelligent, more "advanced" tribe eliminating its weaker rivals from the gene pool, thus increasing the likelihood of survival of the species

 

I do somewhat worry that if the likes of WW2 would happen again our society would utterly fail to cope

"Keep Calm and carry on" has been replaced with "panic, suffer mental illness, give up and ask for a sick line, then hold a vigil"

the resilience has gone out of our species in many places

 

the hurricane thing highlights this brilliantly- carribean Islands post hurricane people utterly unable to build a shelter, catch a fish in the oceans or drink from a stream

WTF has happened to humans? We have become pretty pathetic

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Boris

The uncomfortable truth is that in a "godless" future based on Darwinism, with natural selection being the way forward for the species, and the basis of the human rise to power over our fellow simian ancestors who we co-habited with and wiped out

this is the way it should be

A more intelligent, more "advanced" tribe eliminating its weaker rivals from the gene pool, thus increasing the likelihood of survival of the species

 

 

Except what you describe is a species wiping out its own species, which will ultimately lead to its demise.

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doctor jambo

Except what you describe is a species wiping out its own species, which will ultimately lead to its demise.

 

Not really- we have a common ancestor, yet we are not all the same

In the same way as we would have subsets such as "cats" and "dogs"

 

Whilst we share similar traits we are not all the same. We have evolved down different paths

And now different populations look different, suffer different rates of disease, are different colours, heights, bone density, muscle types

 

Is "human" all the one species? I guess kind of, but there are many different variants.

A more proper comparison would be wolves wiping out poodles

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Thunderstruck

Juncker also wants to combine the roles of the President of the EU Commission & Council into one thus making an even more unelected powerful person.

 

There is one person I can think off who would fit right into that role, none other than Frau Merkel.

This is an interesting step along a direction of travel. The "United States of Europe" under a single President with its own Finance Minister and Armed Forces seems to be this direction of travel. Any states included in that union will inevitably lose sovereignty to this central government.

 

"Independence within Europe" appears as an increasingly futile ambition.

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Boris

Not really- we have a common ancestor, yet we are not all the same

In the same way as we would have subsets such as "cats" and "dogs"

 

Whilst we share similar traits we are not all the same. We have evolved down different paths

And now different populations look different, suffer different rates of disease, are different colours, heights, bone density, muscle types

 

Is "human" all the one species? I guess kind of, but there are many different variants.

A more proper comparison would be wolves wiping out poodles

 

We shall have to agree to disagree on that one.

 

We are all human beings to me.

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jake

The uncomfortable truth is that in a "godless" future based on Darwinism, with natural selection being the way forward for the species, and the basis of the human rise to power over our fellow simian ancestors who we co-habited with and wiped out

this is the way it should be

A more intelligent, more "advanced" tribe eliminating its weaker rivals from the gene pool, thus increasing the likelihood of survival of the species

 

I do somewhat worry that if the likes of WW2 would happen again our society would utterly fail to cope

"Keep Calm and carry on" has been replaced with "panic, suffer mental illness, give up and ask for a sick line, then hold a vigil"

the resilience has gone out of our species in many places

 

the hurricane thing highlights this brilliantly- carribean Islands post hurricane people utterly unable to build a shelter, catch a fish in the oceans or drink from a stream

WTF has happened to humans? We have become pretty pathetic

 

Of course humans have and do adapt.

Claiming mental illness for a sick line may offend you but its still surviving.

And the amount of people at it is nothing compared to the sleekitness of finance and tax dodgers in the money markets.

Id like to see that lot in the front line.

Suppose if doctors could be bothered to do more than scribblle a prescription and sick note it may change.

But doctors are not what they used to be i suppose.

Of course these sick note slackers are from the same gene pool as the working classes whose blood and bravery won these wars.

 

As for the evolving of humans.

Hopefully they evolve beyond the killing of lesser beings.

Hopefully they even begin to not kill off what little there is of the animal kingdom.

 

You of course think thats the way it should be.

 

Some doctor lol.

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jake

 

 

We are all human beings .

 

Thats a fact a doctor should grasp as a basic.

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jake

Not really- we have a common ancestor, yet we are not all the same

In the same way as we would have subsets such as "cats" and "dogs"

 

Whilst we share similar traits we are not all the same. We have evolved down different paths

And now different populations look different, suffer different rates of disease, are different colours, heights, bone density, muscle types

 

Is "human" all the one species? I guess kind of, but there are many different variants.

A more proper comparison would be wolves wiping out poodles

 

My god.

Subsets?

 

Fr Goebells i presume.

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Adam Murray

We are all human beings, the same as a rottweiler and a chihuahua are both dogs.

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Smithee

Thats a fact a doctor should grasp as a basic.

I'm trying really hard not to get involved here but that's ****ing mental eh?

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jake

We are all human beings, the same as a rottweiler and a chihuahua are both dogs.

 

Except those breeds are the result of selective breeding.

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John Findlay

We shall have to agree to disagree on that one.

 

We are all human beings to me.

Boris we are. We don't all have the same intellect. We don't all have that will to win and we don't all have the instinct to survive. As much as we are the same we are also so very different.

Say there was another conventional world war. The citizens of the UK today would behave very differently to those of 70 plus years ago. Alot appear to when the going gets tough. Give in.

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