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Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )


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36 minutes ago, jambo89 said:

 

So due to EU rules, the government could not, for example, buy out / own an energy provider and reduce the cost of energy prices via subsidies from tax intake, therefore undercutting the competition and providing cheap energy to the masses. This would of course reduce the cost of living for millions in Britain’s poorest areas (the north mainly) possibly increasing tax intake as people have more money to spend! Win win!! However the EU deem this unfair to the super rich energy companies! How very progressive of them!   

 

I guess that if the UK had a "state owned" energy company, they could enter the EU market and use the profits to subsidise energy in the UK.

 

Again, a bit like what the Dutch railways do.

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5 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

There is a new thread with a long and boring OP ? that discusses how the Scottish Parliament is supposed to have this exact power . . . and yet Westminster has rammed it up them twice when they tried to exercise it--or even be politically involved at all in matters well within their legislative competency--in the past two years. :whistling:

 

But yes. The difference between "slight similarities" and the jump you're making, @jambo89, is massive. There are slight similarities in the governmental style of the UK and the old Soviet Union, but we'd have hardly gotten pedantic over someone saying they're really not comparable.

 

@jake, I don't even know where we need to begin to get to you start seeing the enormous difference between the two, especially since it's been beaten to death in various threads and posts here that we all know you've read, and you know you've read, it's just that you like to conveniently ignore points made by good people here and instead align yourself with, then switch your brain off in support of, divisive douchebag politicians in the name of establishment sooking anti-establishmentarianism. Nasty, mate. Tsk tsk tsk.

Had to read that twice to make sure you were slagging me off as it was so eloquently put.

?

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6 hours ago, jambo89 said:

 

Your rather condescending post was that they are not even remotely comparable.

 

My point was that the EU and Tories both fetishise big-business and capitalism and are anti-workers rights. In that respect they are 2 sides to the same coin. 

 

If if you want to argue the opposite, I would be happy to read examples of their progressive policies that have prioritised workers over big business.

 

 

So due to EU rules, the government could not, for example, buy out / own an energy provider and reduce the cost of energy prices via subsidies from tax intake, therefore undercutting the competition and providing cheap energy to the masses. This would of course reduce the cost of living for millions in Britain’s poorest areas (the north mainly) possibly increasing tax intake as people have more money to spend! Win win!! However the EU deem this unfair to the super rich energy companies! How very progressive of them!   

 

 

It wasn't condescending. Westminster = Long to rule over us. EU = Long let us work along with each other.

 

If it wasn't for the EU our workers rights would be a lot worse than they are now. It's not the EU's fault you aren't in a good union. Train driver's seem to have a good union, you should look into joining the railway or sticking a rocket up your unions arse using the Train Drivers union as an example.

 

As for big business, that's the way of today, it's not pretty and I don't personally like the idea. Having said that, I do enjoy the convenience and realise that we cannot turn the clocks back. The only way is to move forward. Moving forward, in my mind, is not to retract into our own little idea of, whatever this insane idea is supposed to look like.

 

The whole idea/image/persona/whateveryouwouldliketocallit of Westminster could be called a lot of things but progressive is not one of them.

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frankblack
1 hour ago, Sraman said:

 

 

It wasn't condescending. Westminster = Long to rule over us. EU = Long let us work along with each other.

 

The Scots voted to stay in the UK, so it was our choice, as it was to sign the act of union 300 years ago.

 

1 hour ago, Sraman said:

If it wasn't for the EU our workers rights would be a lot worse than they are now. It's not the EU's fault you aren't in a good union. Train driver's seem to have a good union, you should look into joining the railway or sticking a rocket up your unions arse using the Train Drivers union as an example.

 

Garbage.

 

Westminster has a 5 year term, and if you piss off the people you get kicked out, like the Tories will be next General Election.

 

1 hour ago, Sraman said:

As for big business, that's the way of today, it's not pretty and I don't personally like the idea. Having said that, I do enjoy the convenience and realise that we cannot turn the clocks back. The only way is to move forward. Moving forward, in my mind, is not to retract into our own little idea of, whatever this insane idea is supposed to look like.

 

The whole idea/image/persona/whateveryouwouldliketocallit of Westminster could be called a lot of things but progressive is not one of them.

 

More of the usual whinging you get from the Nats who are always blaming someone else for their own inadequacies.  Its the sort of tedious whatabooterry from insecure people with an inferiority complex.

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The Real Maroonblood
4 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

The Scots voted to stay in the UK, so it was our choice, as it was to sign the act of union 300 years ago.

 

 

 

300 years ago.:rofl:

Was it a close vote?

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15 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

The Scots voted to stay in the UK, so it was our choice, as it was to sign the act of union 300 years ago.

 

 

Garbage.

 

Westminster has a 5 year term, and if you piss off the people you get kicked out, like the Tories will be next General Election.

 

 

More of the usual whinging you get from the Nats who are always blaming someone else for their own inadequacies.  Its the sort of tedious whatabooterry from insecure people with an inferiority complex.

 

 

Ahahahaha!

 

You got a show at the fringe this year Captain.

 

I only see one angry whinger on here.

 

 

HAhahahahahahahaha.

 

Keep going round in those circles dude, it'll keep you fit if nothing else.

 

The future is not behind you.

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It's by no means certain at all that the Tories will be ousted at the next election.     Do not under estimate the distinct possibility that a significant majority of natural Tory voters will expediate to the base self interest default of voting for the party of perceived low taxation.     

 

When it comes down to the nitty gritty,    that's how lots of people will vote when faced with any suggestion of a fairer redistribution of the tax burden.     Those with something to protect and those who have seemingly good incomes yet are exposed to equally high outgoings.

 

There is no appetite whatsoever to pay more tax.     Those who could absorb a modest real terms reduction in their disposable income will continue to expect that all those costly public services will be covered by impoverishing those below them.

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frankblack
22 minutes ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

300 years ago.:rofl:

Was it a close vote?

 

Closer than the last Indy Referendum. :thumbs_up:

 

Scotland went begging to join the union after ****ing up their economy.  With the lunatic Nats, I guess history would repeat itself if we ever went independent.

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frankblack
16 minutes ago, Victorian said:

It's by no means certain at all that the Tories will be ousted at the next election.     Do not under estimate the distinct possibility that a significant majority of natural Tory voters will expediate to the base self interest default of voting for the party of perceived low taxation.     

 

When it comes down to the nitty gritty,    that's how lots of people will vote when faced with any suggestion of a fairer redistribution of the tax burden.     Those with something to protect and those who have seemingly good incomes yet are exposed to equally high outgoings.

 

There is no appetite whatsoever to pay more tax.     Those who could absorb a modest real terms reduction in their disposable income will continue to expect that all those costly public services will be covered by impoverishing those below them.

 

Labour should have a shoe-in, but unbelievably they keep missing an open goal.

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The Real Maroonblood
52 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Closer than the last Indy Referendum. :thumbs_up:

 

Scotland went begging to join the union after ****ing up their economy.  With the lunatic Nats, I guess history would repeat itself if we ever went independent.

Only a guess.:thumbsup:

That’s all it is.

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frankblack
Just now, The Real Maroonblood said:

Only a guess.:thumbsup:

That’s all it is.

 

I was discussing a possible scenario assuming Scotland got independence.  Since we know that isn't going to happen,  its academic.

 

:verysmug:

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The Real Maroonblood
21 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

I was discussing a possible scenario assuming Scotland got independence.  Since we know that isn't going to happen,  its academic.

 

:verysmug:

Dream on.

It’s inevitable.

:verysmug:

 

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6 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

Closer than the last Indy Referendum. :thumbs_up:

 

Scotland went begging to join the union after ****ing up their economy.  With the lunatic Nats, I guess history would repeat itself if we ever went independent.

No they didn't, the money men did.  All the Scottish burghs were fine and doing quite well.

And the Scottish didn't calm doon for about 60 years. So don't talk shite!

 

Tick Tock!!!

Edited by ri Alban
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5 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

I was discussing a possible scenario assuming Scotland got independence.  Since we know that isn't going to happen,  its academic.

 

:verysmug:

Tell us about the day you voted Yes? Did yer maw wake you up for yer Rice Krispies.

 

 

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The Real Maroonblood
1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

No they didn't, the money men did.  All the Scottish burghs were fine and doing quite well.

And the Scottish didn't calm doon for about 60 years. So don't talk shite!

 

Tick Tock!!!

:greatpost:

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So she'll be 'going' today.    Enormous leadership process to follow.      Lots of chancers parroting out the new buzz phrase 'one nation conservatism'.

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'X' number of candidates.

Voted down to 2 by one by one in elimination ballots.

11 separate regional hustings.

Postal ballot of the 100,000 neo-blue rinse brigade.

 

Self indulgent shitehousery.

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frankblack
46 minutes ago, Boris said:

Wouldn't be surprised to see a general election later on in the year.

 

Parties don't call elections when they are weak.  Labour are a joke too but its hard to see either get a majority.  We would be straight back into a hung parliament.

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9 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Parties don't call elections when they are weak.  Labour are a joke too but its hard to see either get a majority.  We would be straight back into a hung parliament.

 

Parties don't need to call the election.  Parliament may via a vote of no confidence.

 

Brexit isn't going anywhere, and not sure what a new leader for the Tories will bring that will break the impasse.  The arithmetic in the commons remains the same, regardless of who leads the Tories.

 

Agreed, we would probably see a hung parliament.

 

Less Tories, new Brexit Party faces, less Labour, more Lib Dems and more SNP?

 

So you would then see the Tories and the Brexit Party cosying up - likely to split the Tories further?  

 

Interesting times, as they say.

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Just noticed that Dominic Raab has been going on about a 5% cut in the basic rate of income tax.     It's not the natural hunting ground to appeal to the better off and doesn't seem like it's a pitch to the party membership.    But very,  very appealing to a wider audience.   Have to assume he's playing a longer game.     Electioneering before he's even announced that he wants to lead the Tory Party.      Maybe it is a roundabout pitch to the membership.     Vote for me because I have a policy to win the next election.

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Pans Jambo

Anyone listening to May’s utter pish outside No. 10?

Utter contempt. Bringing austerity to an end? Protecting the environment? Ending unemployment? GTF ya LIAR. 

 

Bring on Boris ?. He’ll sort it all out!

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Just now, Pans Jambo said:

Anyone listening to May’s utter pish outside No. 10?

Utter contempt. Bringing austerity to an end? Protecting the environment? Ending unemployment? GTF ya LIAR. 

 

Bring on Boris ?. He’ll sort it all out!

 

Utter fairytale stuff.    

 

Then a meltdown.   

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Pans Jambo
Just now, Victorian said:

 

Utter fairytale stuff.    

 

Then a meltdown.   

Aboot greeting there. Do politicians get Oscars???

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1 minute ago, Pans Jambo said:

Aboot greeting there. Do politicians get Oscars???

 

Total cringer.     No sympathy here.    GTF.

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AlphonseCapone
12 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

Closer than the last Indy Referendum. :thumbs_up:

 

Scotland went begging to join the union after ****ing up their economy.  With the lunatic Nats, I guess history would repeat itself if we ever went independent.

 

I think you're a good poster and you're knowledgeable on politics but the above post is really beneath you. Pathetic stuff really. 

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Unknown user
2 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

I don’t see May going changing all that much. The numbers in parliament just don’t seem to allow it. 

 

If the tories go for a brexiteer, a harder exit option will be less popular than the May deal. I would imagine if they tried to push through with a hard brexit they would be brought down.

 

A soft remainer will still have the numbers problem as labour want a general election. 

 

A general election probably results in a minority government  or some fragile coalition and we do the same dance we have for the last couple of years. 

 

I think May has been a dreadful PM and gone about the whole thing terribly but I don’t doubt her intentions and efforts

 

I think the tories go for Gove over Bojo as next leader. 

 

 

 

They'll go for a brexiteer, the party membership have the final say

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2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

They'll go for a brexiteer, the party membership have the final say

 

So definitely heading for some sort of another referendum then?

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6 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

They'll go for a brexiteer, the party membership have the final say

 

Agree, but whether it is Gove or Raab or Johnson remains to be seen.

 

Hunt?  Christ...

Edited by Boris
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Compromise seemed to be the main lament in that cringer of a statement.

 

Yeah... maybe you could have tried that.

 

 

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Governor Tarkin
2 hours ago, Victorian said:

Lots of chancers parroting out the new buzz phrase 'one nation conservatism'.

 

They have 'One Nation' in Australia too.

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3 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

Agree, but whether it is Gove or Raab or Johnson remains to be seen.

 

Hunt?  Christ...

 

Wot, no Davidson? I thought they liked her down there :D 

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31 minutes ago, Victorian said:

Just noticed that Dominic Raab has been going on about a 5% cut in the basic rate of income tax.     It's not the natural hunting ground to appeal to the better off and doesn't seem like it's a pitch to the party membership.    But very,  very appealing to a wider audience.   Have to assume he's playing a longer game.     Electioneering before he's even announced that he wants to lead the Tory Party.      Maybe it is a roundabout pitch to the membership.     Vote for me because I have a policy to win the next election.

Cut taxes 

 

Aspire to be several classesxabove what you can afford

 

Spend and borrow to support ecomomy

 

Revenues down

 

National debt up

 

Wage stagnation

 

Tell working classes to blame unemployed (till 2000ish)

 

Post 2000 tell working  classes and unemployed its Europe and the immigrants fault.

 

Vote winner every time

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2 hours ago, Victorian said:

So she'll be 'going' today.    Enormous leadership process to follow.      Lots of chancers parroting out the new buzz phrase 'one nation conservatism'.

 

And a new Prime Minister 

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Unknown user
8 minutes ago, Sraman said:

 

So definitely heading for some sort of another referendum then?

 

**** only knows mate, you'd think so but "definitely" isn't a word I'm comfortable with using these days!

 

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I'd make Sajid Javid favourite 

 

With Gavin Williamson as an outsider

 

Presuming the MPs don't pick Boris 

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frankblack
29 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

I think you're a good poster and you're knowledgeable on politics but the above post is really beneath you. Pathetic stuff really. 

 

Ok I take your point.

 

I try and put considered points over but usually get the same 4 or 5 posters, who contribute little to debate, swarm and start dishing out the personal abuse when I criticise their party.

 

I was a bit tired and run down with a cold and lost it with one of them.

 

Anyway, day off today to wind down before the busy weekend.

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1 minute ago, Smithee said:

 

**** only knows mate, you'd think so but "definitely" isn't a word I'm comfortable with using these days!

 

 

It definitely kicks the tired old empty can down the road a bit further.

 

They're not very good at doing "stuff", not even very good at kicking cans but they're getting away with it. It's pathetic. The whole country is on hold waiting for them to do something and they've pressed the pause button, again. They haven't even moved on from the actual vote taking place, this is still step 1. They shot their bolt with step 2, Article 50, so we're left in a limbo land while they sort themselves out, once more.

 

 

 

 

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So basically Theresa May has failed to deliver Brexit which is a very big failure.

 

And in so doing actually made it possible we could stay in EU.

 

One of the greatest failures. (Or a major success if you want to stay in EU). 

Edited by Mikey1874
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AlphonseCapone
52 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

Ok I take your point.

 

I try and put considered points over but usually get the same 4 or 5 posters, who contribute little to debate, swarm and start dishing out the personal abuse when I criticise their party.

 

I was a bit tired and run down with a cold and lost it with one of them.

 

Anyway, day off today to wind down before the busy weekend.

 

? Fair enough mate, the place is hard work at times. 

 

Enjoy, fingers crossed for tomorrow! 

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Boris is the odds-on early favourite.

 

That would be the end of the UK, with that Poundland Churchill in the big chair.

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The Real Maroonblood
1 minute ago, Cade said:

Boris is the odds-on early favourite.

 

That would be the end of the UK, with that Poundland Churchill in the big chair.

:pleasing:

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The Real Maroonblood
Just now, Barack said:

Gove to knife him, & triumph once more on this one.

 

 

Win win.

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Cruyff Turn
13 minutes ago, Cade said:

Boris is the odds-on early favourite.

 

That would be the end of the UK, with that Poundland Churchill in the big chair.

:glorious:

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The Real Maroonblood
1 minute ago, Barack said:

Look forward to Leadsom's "challenge..."

:lol:

That’s it I’m off to the local for a pint.?

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Out of the frying pan into the fire. In Mays defence she had an impossible task to deliver Brexit. Let’s be honest it’s undeliverable. No future leader (PM) will ever be able to deliver Brexit. 

Suits me fine.

Edited by Dannie Boy
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I think Hunt will get it.    Johnson to be too toxic to MPs to make the membership vote final 2.    Hunt vs Leadsom in that.    If Johnson makes the final 2 then he would win.

 

Rory Stewart is the best candidate but image is important.     He seems a decent guy but he doesn't have the statesman image.

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  • davemclaren changed the title to Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

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