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Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )


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14 hours ago, Class of 75 said:

Wouldn't make much of a difference. The EU is a federalist organisation and does not condone nationalism which is why the UK is having issues with Brexit. An independent Scotland would be a net taker from the EU and would offer nothing substantial. Surely being a nation within the UK is better than being swallowed up in a federalist system of government where you have no say in raising taxes and losing your identity etc? 

 

9 hours ago, Class of 75 said:

They are indeed. Scotland within the EU would be forced to join the Euro with the ultimate aim of the European project being to create an unelected Central Bank located in Germany who will set the tax rate. I am afraid it is true, I studied it at length at Uni. 

For a student if politics, you're understanding of federalism seems odd. 

 

Can you provide some evidence for your conclusions on the "ultimate aim" of the EU? We're it in fact true, don't you think other countries, like Denmark or Sweden for example, would be more vocal? 

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Francis Albert
1 hour ago, Martin_T said:

 

'winners' is in inverted commas because trying to characterise this as 'winners' versus 'losers' is childish and is in part of an example of the divergence of the argument as time has gone on.

 

No one can claim to any degree of certainty as to what principles people were voting on, but to suggest that everyone of the 52% did so on the ultra right premise of WTO terms and leaving the single market is probably as much fanciful nonsense as suggesting that the 48% are ode to joy whistling, Sterling hating, Europhiles. 

 

If I need to resort to video clips of virtually all the main players in both Vote Leave and Leave.EU advocating that leaving the EU would not mean leaving the single market then I'm happy to do so? But regardless of this, it would only require 2% of the leave vote to expect that those campaign promises would be honoured to mean that the extreme position 'leavers' are now advocating is not representative of the majority of public opinion.

 

There's no ideal solution, so the pragmatic choice is to try and find a compromise position, which to be fair, is what May tried to do, albeit in an incompetent manner. I suspect that the majority of people in this debate are not either extreme alt right neo conservatives or indeed libertarian European federalists, but simply people like me who want a decision made that is best for the economic prosperity, social cohesion and security of this country. The extreme of leave means leave, WTO terms etc is not representative of that.

 

As a fellow remain voter, I'm sure that is something that you can understand.

 

 

I didn't suggest the emboldened bits.

 

(I am not sure what relevance your repeated and technically  erroneous reference to me as a remain voter has).

Edited by Francis Albert
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1 hour ago, Martin_T said:

 

'winners' is in inverted commas because trying to characterise this as 'winners' versus 'losers' is childish and is in part of an example of the divergence of the argument as time has gone on.

 

No one can claim to any degree of certainty as to what principles people were voting on, but to suggest that everyone of the 52% did so on the ultra right premise of WTO terms and leaving the single market is probably as much fanciful nonsense as suggesting that the 48% are ode to joy whistling, Sterling hating, Europhiles. 

 

If I need to resort to video clips of virtually all the main players in both Vote Leave and Leave.EU advocating that leaving the EU would not mean leaving the single market then I'm happy to do so? But regardless of this, it would only require 2% of the leave vote to expect that those campaign promises would be honoured to mean that the extreme position 'leavers' are now advocating is not representative of the majority of public opinion.

 

There's no ideal solution, so the pragmatic choice is to try and find a compromise position, which to be fair, is what May tried to do, albeit in an incompetent manner. I suspect that the majority of people in this debate are not either extreme alt right neo conservatives or indeed libertarian European federalists, but simply people like me who want a decision made that is best for the economic prosperity, social cohesion and security of this country. The extreme of leave means leave, WTO terms etc is not representative of that.

 

As a fellow remain voter, I'm sure that is something that you can understand.

 

 

 

 

Great post on the topic ?

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Francis Albert
2 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Farage was and to a degree still is a poster boy for the huge rump of people who voted leave and their reasons for doing so.

Once again the majority of people did not analyse the macro economic data nor the nuances of future trade deals. It was 350 million a week for the NHS and no more brown faces. That's a fact whether you like it or not. 

Farage was front and centre of that whole lie so let's not airbrush the fact he's up to his baws in it.

The only references to brown people I have seen on this thread have been by remainers. It is a strange obsession of some. The decline in immigration from the EU and growth in non-EU immigration since the vote does not seem to have produced any white supremacist backlash. Being in the EU has meant discriminating on the basis of race and nationality in immigration policy.

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Unknown user
34 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

For a student if politics, you're understanding of federalism seems odd. 

 

Can you provide some evidence for your conclusions on the "ultimate aim" of the EU? We're it in fact true, don't you think other countries, like Denmark or Sweden for example, would be more vocal? 

 

I'm keen to hear more too. The guy's moniker suggests he's in his mid 40s or older, which would make it likely he attended uni a quarter of a century ago.

Is this something he was taught 25 years ago and still hasn't come true?

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3 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I'm keen to hear more too. The guy's moniker suggests he's in his mid 40s or older, which would make it likely he attended uni a quarter of a century ago.

Is this something he was taught 25 years ago and still hasn't come true?

 

I studied politics starting 30 years ago this September. Very little of my course looked at EU,or EC as was, expansion/domination. It figured in international relations.

 

I also doubt such conclusions were taught, rather it is a conclusion reached by the poster themself. Which is fair enough, but show us the working!

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The Mighty Thor
32 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

The only references to brown people I have seen on this thread have been by remainers. It is a strange obsession of some. The decline in immigration from the EU and growth in non-EU immigration since the vote does not seem to have produced any white supremacist backlash. Being in the EU has meant discriminating on the basis of race and nationality in immigration policy.

It was the central plank of the leave campaign. It resonated with a huge number of people in areas of England. It was on huge posters threatening the spectre of being over run by the Turks. 

It hasn't generated a white supremacist backlash because it was bollocks to begin with. May kicked it off at the home office and arseholes like Johnson and particularly Farage ran hot with it.

Like the majority of the leave campaign's claims, they have subsequently been shown to be Daily Mail, Daily Express clickbait bullshit.

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Class of 75
10 hours ago, Costanza said:

Where is it explicitly stated that they would have to adopt the Euro?

They may well have to intend to adopt it but countries who have done that have never been forced to.

Countries with the Euro still set their own personal tax rates and determine how it is spent,  so I don't agree with your point. There is a degree of harmonisation with regards to business taxation certainly.

Accepting the Euro will be the base line entry point. At the moment countries levy their own taxes, however the ultimate aim of the EU to commence at the next stage will be full acceptance of a central European Bank. This is why Brexit is taking place, the UK were given the choice on further harmonisation with regards to EU membership and the electorate rejected it. 

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Class of 75
1 hour ago, Boris said:

 

For a student if politics, you're understanding of federalism seems odd. 

 

Can you provide some evidence for your conclusions on the "ultimate aim" of the EU? We're it in fact true, don't you think other countries, like Denmark or Sweden for example, would be more vocal? 

Hi I did indeed attend Uni and finished my course just over 22 years ago. With regards to Federalism the models of the US and EU( to come) were looked at. The ultimate aim of the EU was to become a single economic bloc to challenge both the US and the Soviet Union. Although I do admit that things have changed in the last 25 years with regards to the Soviet Union. In the literature I studied at the time and since, it was evident that the EU did not support Nationalism and promoted a strong idea of Federalism but more centralised that that in the US. I hope this explains my side a wee bit more.  With regards to the Scandsnavian countries I agree that if things were'off' they would have something to say, however there are already rumblings in Hungary and Italy regarding the direction the EU is taking. 

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Francis Albert
59 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

It was the central plank of the leave campaign. It resonated with a huge number of people in areas of England. It was on huge posters threatening the spectre of being over run by the Turks. 

It hasn't generated a white supremacist backlash because it was bollocks to begin with. May kicked it off at the home office and arseholes like Johnson and particularly Farage ran hot with it.

Like the majority of the leave campaign's claims, they have subsequently been shown to be Daily Mail, Daily Express clickbait bullshit.

Are Turks brown people in Remainer speak?

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31 minutes ago, Class of 75 said:

Accepting the Euro will be the base line entry point. At the moment countries levy their own taxes, however the ultimate aim of the EU to commence at the next stage will be full acceptance of a central European Bank. This is why Brexit is taking place, the UK were given the choice on further harmonisation with regards to EU membership and the electorate rejected it. 

 

There is certainly a good point there.

 

But saying voters (17 million people) even know about EU federalism possibilities is stretching it.

 

On the overall point, which is a fair one, it is much more likely with UK leaving.

 

UK has a unique position in Europe with various exceptions that now fall. 

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AlphonseCapone
1 hour ago, Class of 75 said:

Accepting the Euro will be the base line entry point. At the moment countries levy their own taxes, however the ultimate aim of the EU to commence at the next stage will be full acceptance of a central European Bank. This is why Brexit is taking place, the UK were given the choice on further harmonisation with regards to EU membership and the electorate rejected it. 

 

Do you have any sources for any of this? 

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The Mighty Thor
1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

Are Turks brown people in Remainer speak?

No idea mate. Best asking one of the bangers who based their decision to vote leave on the immigration bogeyman portrayed by Farage et al.

 

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AlphonseCapone
42 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

Cheers. The most interesting aspect of that is the final section around member states setting their own timetable towards adoption. There appears to be no mention of final timescales so theoretically you could join the EU and never adopt the euro under the guise of working towards it. 

 

On Class of 75's specific final point about increasing integration and the part that played in the British people's decision to leave, if that's the case then it's Ill informed really. Ourselves and Denmark are under no obligation to join the euro and we had several opt outs which we did use to keep ourselves on the fringes of the EU rather than further integration. 

 

I still haven't made my mind up whether I'd like to see an independent Scotland in or out of the EU. I don't think being in should be a given if there is a Yes vote despite the previous referendum result on the EU in Scotland. I'd like to see that affirmed in another vote. And other matters for that. 

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Class of 75
2 hours ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

Do you have any sources for any of this? 

This was common knowledge at the time but was further enhanced by the Treaty of Lisbon signed in 2007 which itself reinforced the Treaty of Amsterdam signed in 1997 and Maastrict 1992. This was heavily criticised by the Danish who felt it further centralised the EU. 

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Class of 75
1 hour ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

Cheers. The most interesting aspect of that is the final section around member states setting their own timetable towards adoption. There appears to be no mention of final timescales so theoretically you could join the EU and never adopt the euro under the guise of working towards it. 

 

On Class of 75's specific final point about increasing integration and the part that played in the British people's decision to leave, if that's the case then it's Ill informed really. Ourselves and Denmark are under no obligation to join the euro and we had several opt outs which we did use to keep ourselves on the fringes of the EU rather than further integration. 

 

I still haven't made my mind up whether I'd like to see an independent Scotland in or out of the EU. I don't think being in should be a given if there is a Yes vote despite the previous referendum result on the EU in Scotland. I'd like to see that affirmed in another vote. And other matters for that. 

The UK and Denmark may be under no obligation to join the Euro but what is the point of being in a club where you are not a full member? Pressure would eventually be placed on them by the EU to join in order to assist trade and eventual transition to a full Ferderalist State. 

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Francis Albert
2 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

No idea mate. Best asking one of the bangers who based their decision to vote leave on the immigration bogeyman portrayed by Farage et al.

 

I thought I'd ask someone who uses the expression  "brown faces"

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The Mighty Thor
25 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I thought I'd ask someone who uses the expression  "brown faces"

Sorry unable to confirm either way I'm afraid.

I recall Boris was very vocal about it at the time and Farage was responsible for his infamous breaking point poster. 

As I said try someone who used immigration to base their leave decision.

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Francis Albert
3 hours ago, Class of 75 said:

This was common knowledge at the time but was further enhanced by the Treaty of Lisbon signed in 2007 which itself reinforced the Treaty of Amsterdam signed in 1997 and Maastrict 1992. This was heavily criticised by the Danish who felt it further centralised the EU. 

Macron and Merkel have recently been talking about a strong European Central Bank with more powers on monetary and fiscal policy, To be fair it makes a lot of sense to have such a thing in an area with a common currency, or even a single economic area dominated by a common currency. The current arrangements for countries as diverse as Germany and Greece are not sustainable as a basis for any sort of stability.

An "ever closer union" is the aim of the European project and I am surprised at the reaction to you stating something so self-evident.

 

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Francis Albert
2 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Sorry unable to confirm either way I'm afraid.

I recall Boris was very vocal about it at the time and Farage was responsible for his infamous breaking point poster. 

As I said try someone who used immigration to base their leave decision.

I am not on speaking terms with Farage or Johnson or anyone who habitually refers to brown people and brown faces.

Immigration was certainly an issue in the Brexit vote. It became a significant issue (not just in the UK) because of Merkel's decision to unilaterally admit more than a million refugees and migrants to the EU, and in the UK the denial by mainstream liberal opinion that net immigration of more than half Edinburgh's population (whatever the colour of their skins) every year placed strain on housing, schools and the health service while all of those services (and others) were subject to austerity cut-backs. And the accusation of "racism" at anyone who had concerns compounded things.

Edited by Francis Albert
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Class of 75
25 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Macron and Merkel have recently been talking about a strong European Central Bank with more powers on monetary and fiscal policy, To be fair it makes a lot of sense to have such a thing in an area with a common currency, or even a single economic area dominated by a common currency. The current arrangements for countries as diverse as Germany and Greece are not sustainable as a basis for any sort of stability.

An "ever closer union" is the aim of the European project and I am surprised at the reaction to you stating something so self-evident.

 

Many thanks. What will become evident as closer Union becomes a reality for those nations still in the EU, will be the establishment of a unilateral taxation rate which will mean all paying the same rate. So those living in poorer countries

e.g. Greece or the ROI will end paying the same level of taxation as those living in richer countries such as Germany or France. The richer more efficient nations will effectively be propping up the less prosperous inefficient ones. 

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The Mighty Thor
2 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

I am not on speaking terms with Farage or Johnson or anyone who habitually refers to brown people and brown faces.

Immigration was certainly an issue in the Brexit vote. It became a significant issue (not just in the UK) because of Merkel's decision to unilaterally admit more than a million refugees and migrants to the EU, and in the UK the denial by mainstream liberal opinion that net immigration of more than half Edinburgh's population (whatever the colour of their skins) every year placed strain on housing, schools and the health service while all of those services (and others) were subject to austerity cut-backs. And the accusation of "racism" at anyone who had concerns compounded things.

Oh Francis.

 

Concerns are one thing. Basing your whole campaign on 'them immigrants' is something else entirely. 

That's where the leave campaign went. 

Shamefully a large number of people swallowed it and still actually think the biggest threat to the prosperity of the UK is people not born here, not the rancid opportunists like Farage.

You keep swinging away though with your pish poor thinly veiled insinuations that I'm racist chief. Swing away. 

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The Mighty Thor
18 minutes ago, Cade said:

Herr Farage's "New Jarrow March" sets off on the road to London, with only 100 loons in attendance.

 

:rofl:

100 loons but no Farage. 

Surprising eh?

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2 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

100 loons but no Farage. 

Surprising eh?

Nah he was there (at the start) then fecked off in a posh car.

He'll pick up the march again when if it reaches London on march 29th

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The Mighty Thor
50 minutes ago, Victorian said:

If you're searching for immigration zealots then search not past the PM.    

The vicars daughter. How Christian she is.

Horrible hoor.

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4 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

The vicars daughter. How Christian she is.

Horrible hoor.

 

Every time I see that term (the vicar's daughter) I think of the landlord's daughter scene/song from The Wicker Man.

 

Which I don't want to do in relation to the PM.

 

:sob:

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Francis Albert
1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Oh Francis.

 

Concerns are one thing. Basing your whole campaign on 'them immigrants' is something else entirely. 

That's where the leave campaign went. 

Shamefully a large number of people swallowed it and still actually think the biggest threat to the prosperity of the UK is people not born here, not the rancid opportunists like Farage.

You keep swinging away though with your pish poor thinly veiled insinuations that I'm racist chief. Swing away. 

Oh mighty one.

I wasn't insinuating you were racist. I was complaining about you (and others) more than insinuating that 17.4m leave voters are racist by putting the words brown people and brown faces into their mouths.

Racism certainly played a part but the idea that Farage and his racism was the only or main factor in 17.4m people voting leave is nonsense. Farage has flopped in every UK election he has contested and can't summon more than 100 for his Jarrow March.

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SwindonJambo
1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

Oh mighty one.

I wasn't insinuating you were racist. I was complaining about you (and others) more than insinuating that 17.4m leave voters are racist by putting the words brown people and brown faces into their mouths.

Racism certainly played a part but the idea that Farage and his racism was the only or main factor in 17.4m people voting leave is nonsense. Farage has flopped in every UK election he has contested and can't summon more than 100 for his Jarrow March.

 

Farage has stood for the UK Parliament 7 times, without success.

 

Ironically non EU immigration has actually risen since the referendum while EU immigration has fallen. So the racist/xenophobic element of the Brexit vote (and I'm in no way suggesting they were the majority of that) have got the opposite of what they wanted.

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2 hours ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

Farage has stood for the UK Parliament 7 times, without success.

 

Ironically non EU immigration has actually risen since the referendum while EU immigration has fallen. So the racist/xenophobic element of the Brexit vote (and I'm in no way suggesting they were the majority of that) have got the opposite of what they wanted.

But what type of immigration?

Aussies? New Zealanders? Canadians, white South Africans?

 

I was out for a meal last night and the Aussie waitress (married to a Scot) had paid 5.5k for an extended visa.  I missed first part of conversation she had with my wife as I was having a comfort break.  Decent place with individual hand towels so can't say went for a piss.  So hey, could be a nice little earner

 

Some of the stuff being seen just now including the treatment tourists is bloody ridiculous.

 

We dont half have some effing morons in our society. 

 

 

Edited by DETTY29
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SwindonJambo
25 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

But what type of immigration?

Aussies? New Zealanders? Canadians, white South Africans?

 

I was out for a meal last night and the Aussie waitress (married to a Scot) had paid 5.5k for an extended visa.  I missed first part of conversation she had with my wife as I was having a comfort break.  Decent place with individual hand towels so can't say went for a piss.  So hey, could be a nice little earner

 

Some of the stuff being seen just now including the treatment tourists is bloody ridiculous.

 

We dont half have some effing morons in our society. 

 

 

I think most of the abuse from said effing morons is directed towards non whites, the majority of whom have come directly from outside Europe. I despair at times.

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5 hours ago, SwindonJambo said:

I think most of the abuse from said effing morons is directed towards non whites, the majority of whom have come directly from outside Europe. I despair at times.

On Twitter I've seen Germans and Swedish, women at that being screamed at, just going about their normal tourist business in the street, being screamed at.  Bloody Swedes being neutral in War War 2.

 

Hooefully just isolated incidents, and these 'tourist' stuff this is just temporary until Brexit is done.

 

But of course, non whites in our society get it worse constantly.

 

I was so surprised my 80 year dad voted remain.  He said it he did because Brexit just going to lead to hatred and will eventually escalate further.  

 

Should add of course, and it wasn't part of the Independence narrative (nor the formal EU campaign to be full on hatred, but the innuendo was there) any anti English abuse would be wrong up here too.

 

 

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SwindonJambo
1 hour ago, DETTY29 said:

On Twitter I've seen Germans and Swedish, women at that being screamed at, just going about their normal tourist business in the street, being screamed at.  Bloody Swedes being neutral in War War 2.

 

Hooefully just isolated incidents, and these 'tourist' stuff this is just temporary until Brexit is done.

 

But of course, non whites in our society get it worse constantly.

 

I was so surprised my 80 year dad voted remain.  He said it he did because Brexit just going to lead to hatred and will eventually escalate further.  

 

Should add of course, and it wasn't part of the Independence narrative (nor the formal EU campaign to be full on hatred, but the innuendo was there) any anti English abuse would be wrong up here too.

 

 

 

If Brexit faces a long delay or is overturned altogether, I can see civil unrest among our effing morons, few of whom will have the slightest clue about Sweden being neutral in WW2.

 

I've been down here since aged 14 in 1981 and I've hardly experienced any anti Scottish stuff apart from a few nitwits and ignoramuses at school who mocked my accent (which I've never lost). Sadly, English people in Scotland get much more grief than vice versa. Of that, I'm not in any doubt. 

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SwindonJambo
1 hour ago, Adam Murray said:

I don't imagine Sky will be showing this on the rewind ?

 

 

 

? Wee Roger’s been very vocal about his dislike of the EU. The interviewer showed naivety neglecting to realise that the Who formed about 9 or 10 years before we joined the then EEC, touring Europe throughout.

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AlphonseCapone
3 hours ago, DETTY29 said:

On Twitter I've seen Germans and Swedish, women at that being screamed at, just going about their normal tourist business in the street, being screamed at.  Bloody Swedes being neutral in War War 2.

 

Hooefully just isolated incidents, and these 'tourist' stuff this is just temporary until Brexit is done.

 

But of course, non whites in our society get it worse constantly.

 

I was so surprised my 80 year dad voted remain.  He said it he did because Brexit just going to lead to hatred and will eventually escalate further.  

 

Should add of course, and it wasn't part of the Independence narrative (nor the formal EU campaign to be full on hatred, but the innuendo was there) any anti English abuse would be wrong up here too.

 

 

 

Well, kinda but they breached their neutrality for both sides at times. 

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SwindonJambo
11 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

Well, kinda but they breached their neutrality for both sides at times. 

 

The Swiss weren't perfect either.

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Francis Albert
13 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

Well, kinda but they breached their neutrality for both sides at times. 

Yes they neutrally profited from both sides. Since it was logistically easier to supply Germany than the UK or US this benefited the Third Reich, especially in for example vital iron ore supplies, more than their opponents.

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Francis Albert
3 hours ago, DETTY29 said:

On Twitter I've seen Germans and Swedish, women at that being screamed at, just going about their normal tourist business in the street, being screamed at.  Bloody Swedes being neutral in War War 2.

 

Hooefully just isolated incidents, and these 'tourist' stuff this is just temporary until Brexit is done.

 

But of course, non whites in our society get it worse constantly.

 

I was so surprised my 80 year dad voted remain.  He said it he did because Brexit just going to lead to hatred and will eventually escalate further.  

 

Should add of course, and it wasn't part of the Independence narrative (nor the formal EU campaign to be full on hatred, but the innuendo was there) any anti English abuse would be wrong up here too.

 

 

I don't do Twitter or any of that crap.

So forgive what may be a stupid question. How can you see people ("women at that")  being screamed at on Twitter?

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12 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I don't do Twitter or any of that crap.

So forgive what may be a stupid question. How can you see people ("women at that")  being screamed at on Twitter?

 

Video clips, maybe?

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The Mighty Thor
56 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

The Swiss weren't perfect either.

I'm not having that. 

I've seen the sound of music. 

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The Mighty Thor

I see that horrible boot Esther Mcvey is the latest to back slide into supporting deal v3.0

Looks increasingly likely that this will be a very tight vote. 

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8 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

I see that horrible boot Esther Mcvey is the latest to back slide into supporting deal v3.0

Looks increasingly likely that this will be a very tight vote. 

 

Ah yes.   The one-time cabinet minister Esther McVey.     I doubt very much that this has any relation to the high chances that there will be vacant cabinet minister positions in the not too distant future.    Perish the bleedin' thought.  

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The Mighty Thor
4 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Ah yes.   The one-time cabinet minister Esther McVey.     I doubt very much that this has any relation to the high chances that there will be vacant cabinet minister positions in the not too distant future.    Perish the bleedin' thought.  

Word drifting out of the province that another billion is being dangled in front of the sash massive. 

Democracy at work. 

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7 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Word drifting out of the province that another billion is being dangled in front of the sash massive. 

Democracy at work. 

 

Still think the price will be a significant input into the future relationship process,   rather than cash.     "Things still to be discussed" probably = DUP trying to have their bargaining chip guaranteed in some way.     The DUP will be as accutely aware as anyone else that the PM cannot be taken at her word.

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The Mighty Thor
16 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Still think the price will be a significant input into the future relationship process,   rather than cash.     "Things still to be discussed" probably = DUP trying to have their bargaining chip guaranteed in some way.     The DUP will be as accutely aware as anyone else that the PM cannot be taken at her word.

Apparently the cash is agreed but will be announced as a 'Brexit dividend' as opposed to an outright bribe for a shit deal

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  • davemclaren changed the title to Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

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