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Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )


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The Mighty Thor
36 minutes ago, Cade said:

Sir Jim Ratcliffe, formerly Britain's richest man and hard Brexit supporter, quits the UK and moves to Monaco to avoid taxes.

 

:gfy:

Follows in the footsteps of James Dyson, who fecked off to Singapore and took all his factories with him.

He's clearly not Britain's stupidest man. 

Getting his dough to a safe place before the shitshow starts on 1st Jan. 

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4 hours ago, Cade said:

Sir Jim Ratcliffe, formerly Britain's richest man and hard Brexit supporter, quits the UK and moves to Monaco to avoid taxes.

 

:gfy:

Follows in the footsteps of James Dyson, who fecked off to Singapore and took all his factories with him.


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On 23/09/2020 at 16:31, The Mighty Thor said:

Gove has slid in a wee announcement after his statement that HGV drivers will need to have a KAP - Kent Access Permit and have the correct Brexit paperwork to even enter the county. This  internal border will be enforced by Police and ANPR cameras.

 

As a Scottish Nationalist I'm fecking raging that Kent has achieved secession from the UK and they've not even been asking for it 😂

But what currency are they going to use??? Mmm???

Edited by Pans Jambo
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A Boy Named Crow
22 hours ago, ri Alban said:

He should be put in lockdown. His passports removed. 

Given the absence of Eastern European labour now, could the brexiteers not be conscripted to pick fruit etc? The proceeds could be retained by the nation as part of the Brexit Dividend. It won't be anything like £350m a week, but it's a start.

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2 hours ago, A Boy Named Crow said:

Given the absence of Eastern European labour now, could the brexiteers not be conscripted to pick fruit etc? The proceeds could be retained by the nation as part of the Brexit Dividend. It won't be anything like £350m a week, but it's a start.

It pretty pathetic, if Nigel, the great champion of UK Independence, leaves the UK post leave, to live in the EU. 

A bit like Nicola Sturgeon keeping rUK citizenship, post Scottish independence. A hanging offence. 

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6 hours ago, ri Alban said:

It pretty pathetic, if Nigel, the great champion of UK Independence, leaves the UK post leave, to live in the EU. 

A bit like Nicola Sturgeon keeping rUK citizenship, post Scottish independence. A hanging offence. 

I'll be keeping both. Can never have too many passports. 

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4 hours ago, Normthebarman said:

I'll be keeping both. Can never have too many passports. 

That's fine, but fighting for Scottish independence and then moving to England :wtf:

Nigel moving to the EU(Germany) is really low. 

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19 hours ago, ri Alban said:

That's fine, but fighting for Scottish independence and then moving to England :wtf:

Nigel moving to the EU(Germany) is really low. 

I think I read somewhere that his grandparets were German, as is his wife, and his kids have dual nationality, so he qualifies through family.

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1 hour ago, jim747 said:

I think I read somewhere that his grandparets were German, as is his wife, and his kids have dual nationality, so he qualifies through family.

Why all the brexiteering? Is he some sort of double agent, trying to strengthen Germany, by taking the UK out of the EU. 

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On 25/09/2020 at 21:31, The Real Maroonblood said:

That’ll be Germany then.

He’s got a machine that’ll take him back to Germany 1936 😱

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On 24/09/2020 at 05:17, ri Alban said:

I feel sorry for England, stuck with the likes Boris, Gove and Rees Mogg, opposed by Keir and thingymabob for the rest of eternity.   Unlikely with each passing day. Covid & Brexit will affect millions of ordinary people..... and they'll take it out on Boris & co at the next election - there's no-one else they could possibly  blame.  Starmer looking 100 times more like a credible leader than Corbyn ever did.

Can't wait  for Scotland to be reset and fully modernised across the board.   Laudable sentiment....but it could be a long wait.

I don't mind either way, if we are part of the EU, or not. Free trade and movement and closer ties to the Nordic pact will do me.  Really ?  Surely being in the EU is either a good thing or a bad thing, having netted the good aspects off against the bad  ?   

Fishermen will not be calling any shots either.    In what way are fishermen calling the shots currently ? Fee trade & movement with the Nordics will involve fishing activity both ways

Your posts are usually coherent  and worth reading  regardless of anyone's political views.   But you've let yourself down a bit with this one.

 

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On 26/09/2020 at 14:16, Pans Jambo said:

But what currency are they going to use??? Mmm???

That's an easy one PJ, the Scrote 😎

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UK offers to extend the current fishing quotas system for an extra three years.

EU asks what happens after those three years, UK says "we'll come up with something".

:rofl:

 

UK blinks first, EU points out they're just kicking the can down the road yet again.

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The UK government has received a letter from the EU saying it will take legal action due to the Withdrawal Agreement breaches. 
The UK have a month to respond.

 

 

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Seymour M Hersh
2 hours ago, Boy Daniel said:

The UK government has received a letter from the EU saying it will take legal action due to the Withdrawal Agreement breaches. 
The UK have a month to respond.

 

 

 

She doesn't do irony that van der leyden does she. Ironic that when members the UK were probably the most law abiding of any nation. This is the first step in an infringement procedure. These take on average 35 months to get to court if at all. The average is actually 34.8 months being pedantic. Germany currently has 47 infringement procedures on the docket

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34 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

She doesn't do irony that van der leyden does she. Ironic that when members the UK were probably the most law abiding of any nation. This is the first step in an infringement procedure. These take on average 35 months to get to court if at all. The average is actually 34.8 months being pedantic. Germany currently has 47 infringement procedures on the docket


This one will be fast tracked is my guess. 

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30 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

Is Brexit still a thing?  


It’s been overshadowed by the coronavirus and the shambles from the UK government in deal with it. God help us on the 31st December! This current mob of spives that are the Tories have failed at every hurdle during the pandemic especially  Baroness horse jokey, Bojo the mumbling clown and the Health Minister (stop laughing at the back) Matt Handdick. 
Oven Ready Deal, World Class App, Track and Fail to Trace, I could go on but I d feel depressed if I do. 

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Lone Striker
59 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

Is Brexit still a thing?  

The effects of it are still a "thing", since we're still in the transition period where very little changes - other than the fact that we're no longer a proper member of the club.    In another 92 days though, the "thing" will be reality .......   🙄

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1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

She doesn't do irony that van der leyden does she. Ironic that when members the UK were probably the most law abiding of any nation. This is the first step in an infringement procedure. These take on average 35 months to get to court if at all. The average is actually 34.8 months being pedantic. Germany currently has 47 infringement procedures on the docket

 

Citation needed for the bit in bold please, thanks in advance.

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48 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Citation needed for the bit in bold please, thanks in advance.

 

He may find it difficult. Taking one subject, here for example is a per-nation table for EU environmental infringements in 2019 (source: https://ec.europa.eu/environment/legal/law/statistics.htm)

 

1618969895_Screenshotat2020-10-0114-29-06.png.dca7ee0858d8a6d14119fc7c93606a55.png

 

Previous years available at https://ec.europa.eu/environment/legal/law/pdf/statistics_ms_from_2007_to_2018.pdf

 

The UK is nowhere as near as squeaky clean as @Seymour M Hersh's bias would have him think. On the contrary.

 

Edited by redjambo
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Seymour M Hersh
3 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

He may find it difficult. Taking one subject, here for example is a per-nation table for EU environmental infringements in 2019 (source: https://ec.europa.eu/environment/legal/law/statistics.htm)

 

1618969895_Screenshotat2020-10-0114-29-06.png.dca7ee0858d8a6d14119fc7c93606a55.png

 

Previous years available at https://ec.europa.eu/environment/legal/law/pdf/statistics_ms_from_2007_to_2018.pdf

 

The UK is nowhere as near as squeaky clean as @Seymour M Hersh's bias would have him think. On the contrary.

 

 

France have 67 infringements outstanding. 

Edited by Seymour M Hersh
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21 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

France have 67 infringements outstanding. 

 

Which is irrelevant to your erroneous claim that "the UK were probably the most law abiding of any nation".

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Seymour M Hersh
Just now, redjambo said:

 

Which is irrelevant to your erroneous claim that "the UK were probably the most law abiding of any nation".

 

I believe overall we have played by the rules far more than others. You take one graph in isolation and claim over 40 years we've not been. However the graph only has France as have 16 or 17. I was just saying they have 67 outstanding. But as you seem so anti UK and pro EU I'll not bother discussing it with you any further. All the best. 

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1 minute ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

I believe overall we have played by the rules far more than others. You take one graph in isolation and claim over 40 years we've not been. However the graph only has France as have 16 or 17. I was just saying they have 67 outstanding. But as you seem so anti UK and pro EU I'll not bother discussing it with you any further. All the best. 

 

Sorry, but I'm not doing any more of your research work for you. Please provide statistical evidence to back up your claims, and "But we British are decent chaps compared to our dodgy European neighbours" won't cut the mustard.

 

Anti-UK? Pro-EU? :rofl:I am pro-facts, anti-making things up because (i) it fits your narrative, (ii) you want to believe it.

 

I used environmental infringements as an example, taking actual data for the latest available year. It and the historic graphs clearly show that the UK is among the countries with the most infringements in that domain. I imagine there is a high probability that this will be similarly reflected in other domains.

 

To help you with your research, you'll be looking for cases brought through Article 260 (and its predecessor) against EU member nations.

 

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Seymour M Hersh
3 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Sorry, but I'm not doing any more of your research work for you. Please provide statistical evidence to back up your claims, and "But we British are decent chaps compared to our dodgy European neighbours" won't cut the mustard.

 

Anti-UK? Pro-EU? :rofl:I am pro-facts, anti-making things up because (i) it fits your narrative, (ii) you want to believe it.

 

I used environmental infringements as an example, taking actual data for the latest available year. It and the historic graphs clearly show that the UK is among the countries with the most infringements in that domain. I imagine there is a high probability that this will be similarly reflected in other domains.

 

To help you with your research, you'll be looking for cases brought through Article 260 (and its predecessor) against EU member nations.

 

 

I won't be looking for it as we've left but thanks for your input. I stand by my comments that France, Germany well every country in the EU have outstanding infringements against them I just happened to mention France. Pro facts from the EU. Jobs a good un. 

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2 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

I won't be looking for it as we've left but thanks for your input. I stand by my comments that France, Germany well every country in the EU have outstanding infringements against them I just happened to mention France. Pro facts from the EU. Jobs a good un. 

 

"My made-up claim is as good as your facts." One of the greatest problems facing modern society.

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Seymour M Hersh
3 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

"My made-up claim is as good as your facts." One of the greatest problems facing modern society.

 

Your words not mine. 

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2 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

"My made-up claim is as good as your facts." One of the greatest problems facing modern society.

 

Also worth pointing out after that exchange, the fact that the UK had the highest number of legislative opt-outs while a member.

 

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2 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

I won't be looking for it as we've left but thanks for your input. I stand by my comments that France, Germany well every country in the EU have outstanding infringements against them I just happened to mention France. Pro facts from the EU. Jobs a good un. 

 

2 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

"My made-up claim is as good as your facts." One of the greatest problems facing modern society.

 

All the info you need here lads,

 

https://ec.europa.eu/internal_market/scoreboard/performance_by_governance_tool/infringements/index_en.htm#:~:text=The 3 Member States with,for 30 % of all cases.

 

TL;DR

UK has been above the EU average for infringements for the last 15 years.👍

 

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The Mighty Thor
5 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

 

 

All the info you need here lads,

 

https://ec.europa.eu/internal_market/scoreboard/performance_by_governance_tool/infringements/index_en.htm#:~:text=The 3 Member States with,for 30 % of all cases.

 

TL;DR

UK has been above the EU average for infringements for the last 15 years.👍

 

So to summarise;

Whilst banging on about the punitive EU rules, the ones we're sick of having enforced on us, we've been ignoring and breaking them anyway?

:tlj:

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“There is a cult of ignorance [in the United States], and there has always been.
The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that; 
'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."
- Isaac Asimov.

 

:greggy:

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Seymour M Hersh
31 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

So to summarise;

Whilst banging on about the punitive EU rules, the ones we're sick of having enforced on us, we've been ignoring and breaking them anyway?

:tlj:

 

Actually to partially summerise;

 

Contrary to the EUs assertions the governments clauses won't breach international law. The clauses don't actually breach anything and even if they are passed into law they simply authorise action in the future.  This is not my opinion but those of two very senior lawyers with many years of dealing with EU commercial law. 

Edited by Seymour M Hersh
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43 minutes ago, fancy a brew said:

All the info you need here lads,

 

https://ec.europa.eu/internal_market/scoreboard/performance_by_governance_tool/infringements/index_en.htm#:~:text=The 3 Member States with,for 30 % of all cases.

 

TL;DR

UK has been above the EU average for infringements for the last 15 years.👍

 

 

:clap: No amount of spin or misdirection can change that.

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1 hour ago, fancy a brew said:

 

 

All the info you need here lads,

 

https://ec.europa.eu/internal_market/scoreboard/performance_by_governance_tool/infringements/index_en.htm#:~:text=The 3 Member States with,for 30 % of all cases.

 

TL;DR

UK has been above the EU average for infringements for the last 15 years.👍

 

 

Thank you. :thumbsup:

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3 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

So to summarise;

Whilst banging on about the punitive EU rules, the ones we're sick of having enforced on us, we've been ignoring and breaking them anyway?

:tlj:

 

3 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

:clap: No amount of spin or misdirection can change that.

 

***Clears throat***

 

 

Er, lads, as you might guess I wouldn't be quick to agree with @Seymour M Hersh about the politics of the UK's departure from the European Union.

 

But in fairness I think he's got yiz on the issue of the UK's standing as a "law-abiding" country.  The UK has a genuinely good reputation around Europe when it comes to complying with EU rules and regulations.

 

Yes, you can look at the stats above and point to where the UK has more than the average EU cases of infringements.  But we should expect that - the UK has well above the EU average size of population, economy, and number of enterprises.  All the big countries have above the EU average case loads.  And when you adjust for that it turns out that, for example, the UK is a better than average performer when it comes to Single Market infringements.  Also, the UK is one of the quickest countries to correct Single Market infringements when court rulings are issued; only Latvia performs better, and some countries (not looking at any Austrian in particular) are just taking the piss.

 

No harm disagreeing, but let's be fair when it comes to the data.

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4 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

 

***Clears throat***

 

 

Er, lads, as you might guess I wouldn't be quick to agree with @Seymour M Hersh about the politics of the UK's departure from the European Union.

 

But in fairness I think he's got yiz on the issue of the UK's standing as a "law-abiding" country.  The UK has a genuinely good reputation around Europe when it comes to complying with EU rules and regulations.

 

Yes, you can look at the stats above and point to where the UK has more than the average EU cases of infringements.  But we should expect that - the UK has well above the EU average size of population, economy, and number of enterprises.  All the big countries have above the EU average case loads.  And when you adjust for that it turns out that, for example, the UK is a better than average performer when it comes to Single Market infringements.  Also, the UK is one of the quickest countries to correct Single Market infringements when court rulings are issued; only Latvia performs better, and some countries (not looking at any Austrian in particular) are just taking the piss.

 

No harm disagreeing, but let's be fair when it comes to the data.

 

Good info, @Ulysses! Nothing wrong with facts and data—quite the opposite. So a more complete picture so far shows that the UK is above average overall, which is good. All we wanted to see was evidence of that, or more specifically, of it being "the most law abiding of any nation."

 

And as I pointed out, the UK also led all member states in opt-outs—basically, "I don't want to follow this." How that plays into this assertion that the UK was an especially good rule follower is up to personal interpretation, I think.

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14 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Good info, @Ulysses! Nothing wrong with facts and data—quite the opposite. So a more complete picture so far shows that the UK is above average overall, which is good. All we wanted to see was evidence of that, or more specifically, of it being "the most law abiding of any nation."

 

And as I pointed out, the UK also led all member states in opt-outs—basically, "I don't want to follow this." How that plays into this assertion that the UK was an especially good rule follower is up to personal interpretation, I think.

 

If you were to ask many of the senior politicians, civil servants and diplomats who plied their trade in the EU over the last 40 years for their TL;DR take on the UK's approach to the rules, they would probably say three things:

 

1. The UK were no passive rule-takers, but in fact were central architects of much of the EU's law and values;

 

2. The UK had a very particular and individual emphasis on its national interests, but always managed to negotiate its exceptions and opt-outs within the EU's framework of core values and law;

 

3. The UK fought hard and fought fair, so once a deal was made they worked hard to implement it fairly.

 

Now the above is based on the "personal interpretation" of a complex set of information by those senior figures - but let's face it, they would be experts at that kind of interpretation.

 

This is something that the UK has to do, and we have to let them - the UK is somewhere in the middle of a significant change, and leaving the EU is part of that.  We also have to let them walk away from a trade deal if that's what it takes.  We'd rather not take the hit of the couple of percentage points on the EU economy, because small as that might sound it still translates into 4 or 5 million jobs.  But if that's what it takes to defend the integrity of the Single Market then so be it, because if that gets compromised it'll cost us a lot more.  And unfortunately the toxins of history mean that this island will be a focal point for the pressures and the problems.  But that too will pass in time.

 

The sooner the better, though.  We have bigger problems to solve, and we need to get on with that work.

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The Mighty Thor

AFP reporting this morning that the UKs chief negotiator, David Frost, is 'very concerned' that there's little time left to negotiate a free trade deal. 

 

I can see why he's leading the charge the perceptive bugger that he is. 

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The Mighty Thor
On 02/10/2020 at 01:07, Ulysses said:

 

 

***Clears throat***

 

 

Er, lads, as you might guess I wouldn't be quick to agree with @Seymour M Hersh about the politics of the UK's departure from the European Union.

 

But in fairness I think he's got yiz on the issue of the UK's standing as a "law-abiding" country.  The UK has a genuinely good reputation around Europe when it comes to complying with EU rules and regulations.

 

Yes, you can look at the stats above and point to where the UK has more than the average EU cases of infringements.  But we should expect that - the UK has well above the EU average size of population, economy, and number of enterprises.  All the big countries have above the EU average case loads.  And when you adjust for that it turns out that, for example, the UK is a better than average performer when it comes to Single Market infringements.  Also, the UK is one of the quickest countries to correct Single Market infringements when court rulings are issued; only Latvia performs better, and some countries (not looking at any Austrian in particular) are just taking the piss.

 

No harm disagreeing, but let's be fair when it comes to the data.

Ah the ghost of moderators past!

 

I've missed your particular brand of statistical pedantry, however when we're shutting down Seymour's brexit shitehousery its most unwelcome. 😉

 

 

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The Real Maroonblood
4 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Ah the ghost of moderators past!

 

I've missed your particular brand of statistical pedantry, however when we're shutting down Seymour's brexit shitehousery its most unwelcome. 😉

 

 

:lol:

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Seymour M Hersh
1 hour ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Ah the ghost of moderators past!

 

I've missed your particular brand of statistical pedantry, however when we're shutting down Seymour's brexit shitehousery its most unwelcome. 😉

 

 

 

Ha ha that must have stung. 

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The Mighty Thor
5 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Ha ha that must have stung. 

If you'd had the nous to write it, after my initial shock it would really have nipped. 

 

All good though 😘

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  • davemclaren changed the title to Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

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