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Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )


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3 hours ago, Sraman said:

 

So it was just the final nail in the coffin. I suppose, we'll never know how long they could have limped on without the difficulties imposed upon them by our current situation of complete and utter Tory madness.

 

Ah well, if it goes on much longer we'll be able to make it cheaper than them again. Swings and roundabouts and what not.

I really fail to see the logic of your assumption given especially that you are a nationalist.

Just cant get the remain and independence thang.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, jake said:

I really fail to see the logic of your assumption given especially that you are a nationalist.

Just cant get the remain and independence thang.

 

 

 

If you think the EU and Westminster are comparable then I could see why you would struggle with that. If you realise they are two completely different set ups and are able to spot the differences then you would be able to see why I support working with the EU but leaving the rUK behind to do what it wants to do. Makes perfect sense to me.

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9 minutes ago, jake said:

 

Just cant get the remain and independence thang.

 

 

As a full, independent nation state of the EU, Scotland would have all the benefits of membership but also a veto on any structural changes to the EU.

 

It would have considerably more sovereignty than it does now as a slightly autonomous region of the UK.

 

No nation on earth (even North Korea) is 100% fully independent, as all modern trade deals between nations always include some sort of political and sovereignty sharing.
 

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Maybot banging on about "not giving vast sums to the EU but spending it on the NHS and schools"

 

:cornette:

 

Word for word the lies off that feckin bus that BoJo was driving around in.

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jack D and coke
12 hours ago, Sraman said:

And British Steel goes into administration.

 

Your going to have to teach us these words FA. This Government is Decidecidecimating everything. Nothing to do with Brexit of course.

Farage said a remain vote would spell the end for British steel. 

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17 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Farage said a remain vote would spell the end for British steel. 

 

No matter what way this goes we will be remaining in some way or other with very little representation due to the halfwits voting in halfwits.

 

Old NF of the old NF reckons he can milk at least £250k a year out of this gig if he gets voted in. £250k a year for the next four years for doing nothing at all. You can bet your bottom dollar if he does get in he will milk it for as long as he can and if we do leave, I expect him to sue the Government for loss of earnings.

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The Mighty Thor
8 hours ago, Cade said:

Maybot banging on about "not giving vast sums to the EU but spending it on the NHS and schools"

 

:cornette:

 

Word for word the lies off that feckin bus that BoJo was driving around in.

They've already lost the 350 million a week or the 37 billion twice over and we've not left yet. 

Add in the investment drain and the 'correction' to the economy and it all adds up to a fine old mess. Strong and indeed, stable. 

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Joey J J Jr Shabadoo
9 hours ago, Cade said:

Maybot banging on about "not giving vast sums to the EU but spending it on the NHS and schools"

 

:cornette:

 

Word for word the lies off that feckin bus that BoJo was driving around in.

She'll be bailing out grayling's cock ups, instead. 

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10 hours ago, Sraman said:

 

If you think the EU and Westminster are comparable then I could see why you would struggle with that. If you realise they are two completely different set ups and are able to spot the differences then you would be able to see why I support working with the EU but leaving the rUK behind to do what it wants to do. Makes perfect sense to me.

 

You don’t think there is even a slight comparison that can be made? Voting to take back powers from one group of self serving, capitalist loving, ‘big business’ lobbyists and giving other powers to other self serving, capitalist loving, ‘big business’ lobbyists really is completely different right enough. 

 

I don’t believe in the centralisation of power (one of the reasons I voted for independence).

 

May I ask (I genuinely don’t know), given what’s happened to British Steel, why can’t the government buy out the company, make them state owned, subsidise the industry heavily via the taxpayer, therefore driving down price of buying British steel thereby undercutting all our European neighbours and saving thousands of jobs? 

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The Real Maroonblood
5 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

She'll be bailing out grayling's cock ups, instead. 

He should be the Minister of Total **** U**.

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5 minutes ago, jambo89 said:

 

You don’t think there is even a slight comparison that can be made? Voting to take back powers from one group of self serving, capitalist loving, ‘big business’ lobbyists and giving other powers to other self serving, capitalist loving, ‘big business’ lobbyists really is completely different right enough. 

 

I don’t believe in the centralisation of power (one of the reasons I voted for independence).

 

May I ask (I genuinely don’t know), given what’s happened to British Steel, why can’t the government buy out the company, make them state owned, subsidise the industry heavily via the taxpayer, therefore driving down price of buying British steel thereby undercutting all our European neighbours and saving thousands of jobs? 

 

There are indeed slight similarities, but there are also huge differences. When Scotland gets power of veto over certain UK matters we can maybe start seeing them as similar. Right now the EU is made up of sovereign states who've ceded some power to the union, while we're a region of the UK that's had some powers ceded to us, powers that Westminster can remove when they feel like it. 

 

As far as I know there's nothing to stop the state nationalising British steel, the Dutch did it with their trains while in the EU so I'm not aware of any legal issues, and they won contracts to run trains in other countries, ours included.

 

Having said that, the Tories are in power and it's the exact opposite of what they do.

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6 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

There are indeed slight similarities, but there are also huge differences. When Scotland gets power of veto over certain UK matters we can maybe start seeing them as similar. Right now the EU is made up of sovereign states who've ceded some power to the union, while we're a region of the UK that's had some powers ceded to us, powers that Westminster can remove when they feel like it. 

 

As far as I know there's nothing to stop the state nationalising British steel, the Dutch did it with their trains while in the EU so I'm not aware of any legal issues, and they won contracts to run trains in other countries, ours included.

 

Having said that, the Tories are in power and it's the exact opposite of what they do.

 

Yeh I should’ve caveated my post with the above (I realise this would never happen under Tory rule) but we do have an opposition leader who would.

 

I also agree that there are huge differences between The UK and the EU, and Scotland and Westminster. But to categorically claim that they are not comparable is wrong in my opinion. 

 

As an aside, is it Abellios (the private arm) who runs the trains in The Netherlands or actually the state? 

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6 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

There are indeed slight similarities, but there are also huge differences. When Scotland gets power of veto over certain UK matters we can maybe start seeing them as similar. Right now the EU is made up of sovereign states who've ceded some power to the union, while we're a region of the UK that's had some powers ceded to us, powers that Westminster can remove when they feel like it.

 

There is a new thread with a long and boring OP ? that discusses how the Scottish Parliament is supposed to have this exact power . . . and yet Westminster has rammed it up them twice when they tried to exercise it--or even be politically involved at all in matters well within their legislative competency--in the past two years. :whistling:

 

But yes. The difference between "slight similarities" and the jump you're making, @jambo89, is massive. There are slight similarities in the governmental style of the UK and the old Soviet Union, but we'd have hardly gotten pedantic over someone saying they're really not comparable.

 

@jake, I don't even know where we need to begin to get to you start seeing the enormous difference between the two, especially since it's been beaten to death in various threads and posts here that we all know you've read, and you know you've read, it's just that you like to conveniently ignore points made by good people here and instead align yourself with, then switch your brain off in support of, divisive douchebag politicians in the name of establishment sooking anti-establishmentarianism. Nasty, mate. Tsk tsk tsk.

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Just now, jambo89 said:

 

Yeh I should’ve caveated my post with the above (I realise this would never happen under Tory rule) but we do have an opposition leader who would.

 

I also agree that there are huge differences between The UK and the EU, and Scotland and Westminster. But to categorically claim that they are not comparable is wrong in my opinion. 

 

As an aside, is it Abellios (the private arm) who runs the trains in The Netherlands or actually the state? 

Abellio is a subsidiary of the national rail company, Nederlandse Spoorwegen (Dutch Railways). Greater Anglia, Abellio Scotrail, Serco-Abellio, West Midlands Trains, Merseyrail are all half owned or more by NS in this country.

 

As far as I know NS is 100% owned by the state, it was renationalised after the company running it made an arse of the whole thing and is now a pretty exceptional service with high quality rolling stock and reasonable pricing. 

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10 minutes ago, jambo89 said:

 

Yeh I should’ve caveated my post with the above (I realise this would never happen under Tory rule) but we do have an opposition leader who would.

 

I also agree that there are huge differences between The UK and the EU, and Scotland and Westminster. But to categorically claim that they are not comparable is wrong in my opinion. 

 

As an aside, is it Abellios (the private arm) who runs the trains in The Netherlands or actually the state? 

 

Well of course you can compare them, but you can compare a football and the moon, it doesn't mean they really have that much in common. 

Edited by Smithee
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1 minute ago, Justin Z said:

 

There is a new thread with a long and boring OP ? that discusses how the Scottish Parliament is supposed to have this exact power . . . and yet Westminster has rammed it up them twice when they tried to exercise it--or even be politically involved at all in matters well within their legislative competency--in the past two years. :whistling:

 

But yes. The difference between "slight similarities" and the jump you're making, @jambo89, is massive. There are slight similarities in the governmental style of the UK and the old Soviet Union, but we'd have hardly gotten pedantic over someone saying they're really not comparable.

 

@jake, I don't even know where we need to begin to get to you start seeing the enormous difference between the two, especially since it's been beaten to death in various threads and posts here that we all know you've read, and you know you've read, it's just that you like to conveniently ignore points made by good people here and instead align yourself with, then switch your brain off in support of, divisive douchebag politicians in the name of establishment sooking anti-establishmentarianism. Nasty, mate. Tsk tsk tsk.

 

Depends on how important those similarities. 

 

For me, workers rights should trump big business rights.

 

Big Companies should be made to pay their tax.

 

it’s not being pedantic of the issues / similarities are important.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

There is a new thread with a long and boring OP ? that discusses how the Scottish Parliament is supposed to have this exact power . . . and yet Westminster has rammed it up them twice when they tried to exercise it--or even be politically involved at all in matters well within their legislative competency--in the past two years. :whistling:

 

But yes. The difference between "slight similarities" and the jump you're making, @jambo89, is massive. There are slight similarities in the governmental style of the UK and the old Soviet Union, but we'd have hardly gotten pedantic over someone saying they're really not comparable.

 

@jake, I don't even know where we need to begin to get to you start seeing the enormous difference between the two, especially since it's been beaten to death in various threads and posts here that we all know you've read, and you know you've read, it's just that you like to conveniently ignore points made by good people here and instead align yourself with, then switch your brain off in support of, divisive douchebag politicians in the name of establishment sooking anti-establishmentarianism. Nasty, mate. Tsk tsk tsk.

 

I do want to read it but although I'm a geek and I'm interested in the subject, I have attention span issues. I've never got to the last line of a Lawsuit post, for example!

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6 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Well of course you can compare them, but you can compare a football and the moon, it doesn't mean they really have that much in common. 

See my post below. It’s like saying ted bundy and Dennis Nielsen didn’t have much in common, only that they liked to kill people.

 

It’s quite and important similarity to some people.

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50 minutes ago, jambo89 said:

 

You don’t think there is even a slight comparison that can be made? Voting to take back powers from one group of self serving, capitalist loving, ‘big business’ lobbyists and giving other powers to other self serving, capitalist loving, ‘big business’ lobbyists really is completely different right enough. 

 

I don’t believe in the centralisation of power (one of the reasons I voted for independence).

 

May I ask (I genuinely don’t know), given what’s happened to British Steel, why can’t the government buy out the company, make them state owned, subsidise the industry heavily via the taxpayer, therefore driving down price of buying British steel thereby undercutting all our European neighbours and saving thousands of jobs? 

 

I'm guessing that the Government's friends have already made their cash and fecked off, so the company can be allowed to burn.

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jack D and coke
7 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

:rofl: And this is where we are.

image.thumb.png.d5b051b19d9ef0c601cb9699be91484f.png

 

:greatpost:

 

The indyref and brexit referendums have given air to the biggest bunch of clowns imaginable. People who read a couple of things on twitter then go around beating everyone over the head with them on social media like it’s fact. 

Tbf I don’t think many of the politicians know what the **** they’re doing or saying either. 

 

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jack D and coke
1 minute ago, Craig_ said:

 

I'm guessing that the Government's friends have already made their cash and fecked off, so the company can be allowed to burn.

With the Tories you can bet that is a fact. 

Once these places close and the journeymen don’t pass their skills on those skills will be lost. 

Scandalous. 

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1 minute ago, jambo89 said:

See my post below. It’s like saying ted bundy and Dennis Nielsen didn’t have much in common, only that they liked to kill people.

 

It’s quite and important similarity to some people.

 

I don't agree, it's not about what the organisations are, it's about our situation within them. 

 

If Scotland had the power within the UK that the UK has within the EU I wouldn't see the point in further independence, I'd say we probably already had the best of both worlds. 

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jack D and coke
Just now, Smithee said:

 

 

I don't agree, it's not about what the organisations are, it's about our situation within them. 

 

If Scotland had the power within the UK that the UK has within the EU I wouldn't see the point in further independence, I'd say we probably already had the best of both worlds. 

Something that seems to escape unionists who seem to equate independence with handing over control to Brussels. 

Is Germany independent from say Ireland? Italy from Portugal? Or are they all governed from Brussels like we are from London? 

It’s not in the same ballpark. 

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4 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

 

I don't agree, it's not about what the organisations are, it's about our situation within them. 

 

If Scotland had the power within the UK that the UK has within the EU I wouldn't see the point in further independence, I'd say we probably already had the best of both worlds. 

 

So you’re happy to be part of the problem as long as you can have a say in running it? That’s mental! 

 

Not sure I get you last paragraph. If scotland had had the power within the UK that the UK has In the EU we would already be independent (The UK is an independent country in the EU, despite what some of the morons say).

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1 minute ago, jambo89 said:

 

So you’re happy to be part of the problem as long as you can have a say in running it? That’s mental! 

 

Not sure I get you last paragraph. If scotland had had the power within the UK that the UK has In the EU we would already be independent (The UK is an independent country in the EU, despite what some of the morons say).

 

What is the problem you're referring to?

 

Re your second paragraph, that's exactly my point - the UK is an independent state within a mutually beneficial bloc.

 

 

 

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Just now, Smithee said:

 

What is the problem you're referring to?

 

Re your second paragraph, that's exactly my point - the UK is an independent state within a mutually beneficial bloc.

 

 

 

 

Mutually Beneficial to the super rich, big business, tax avoiding scum?

 

Or is it beneficial for the working man who has seen there wages go down in real terms, as well as the erosion of there right to strike?

 

That my problem with the EU.

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1 hour ago, jambo89 said:

 

You don’t think there is even a slight comparison that can be made? Voting to take back powers from one group of self serving, capitalist loving, ‘big business’ lobbyists and giving other powers to other self serving, capitalist loving, ‘big business’ lobbyists really is completely different right enough. 

 

I don’t believe in the centralisation of power (one of the reasons I voted for independence).

 

May I ask (I genuinely don’t know), given what’s happened to British Steel, why can’t the government buy out the company, make them state owned, subsidise the industry heavily via the taxpayer, therefore driving down price of buying British steel thereby undercutting all our European neighbours and saving thousands of jobs? 

 

Against EU rules. 

 

One of the reasons Jeremy Corbyn doesn't like EU.

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6 minutes ago, Smithee said:

This is a very complicated case Maude ;)

You’re not wrong there!!!

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Just now, jambo89 said:

 

Mutually Beneficial to the super rich, big business, tax avoiding scum?

 

Or is it beneficial for the working man who has seen there wages go down in real terms, as well as the erosion of there right to strike?

 

That my problem with the EU.

 

Blame Westminster, they're the sovereign ones in this situation.

 

I spent 10 of the last 11 years in Holland, it's nothing like the situation in Britain, the standard of living's high, unemployment is low, the country's infrastructure is in great nick yet they're in the EU too. So who's really to blame for the nick Britain's in?

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Just now, Smithee said:

 

Blame Westminster, they're the sovereign ones in this situation.

 

I spent 10 of the last 11 years in Holland, it's nothing like the situation in Britain, the standard of living's high, unemployment is low, the country's infrastructure is in great nick yet they're in the EU too. So who's really to blame for the nick Britain's in?

 

Can’t it be a combination of the 2? Just because ones less to blame than the other (which I agree, Westminster is far more to blame for the reduction in wages than the EU), it doesn’t mean we should argue so vehemently (not you in particular) for remaining in such a bloated, anti-working mans organisation. 

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6 minutes ago, jambo89 said:

 

Can’t it be a combination of the 2? Just because ones less to blame than the other (which I agree, Westminster is far more to blame for the reduction in wages than the EU), it doesn’t mean we should argue so vehemently (not you in particular) for remaining in such a bloated, anti-working mans organisation. 

 

I just don't agree with how you see the EU mate. It gave me and my Mrs the chance to move abroad without skills or justification, to live with the same rights as my Dutch friends, to work unhindered, to get a mortgage, to buy property, to vote. I, a working man, earned €14.70 an hour as a regular worker in a pastry factory in Edam, plenty for a good life.

 

Is it really the EU that's anti- working man?

 

Edit - don't forget, it was the UK government who chose austerity for us

Edited by Smithee
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13 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Against EU rules. 

 

One of the reasons Jeremy Corbyn doesn't like EU.

 

See the Dutch railways as an example.  It is possible.

 

12 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Blame Westminster, they're the sovereign ones in this situation.

 

I spent 10 of the last 11 years in Holland, it's nothing like the situation in Britain, the standard of living's high, unemployment is low, the country's infrastructure is in great nick yet they're in the EU too. So who's really to blame for the nick Britain's in?

 

This in spades!

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2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I just don't agree with how you see the EU mate. It gave me and my Mrs the chance to move abroad without skills or justification, to live with the same rights as my Dutch friends, to work unhindered, to get a mortgage, to buy property, to vote. I, a working man, earned €14.70 an hour as a regular worker in a pastry factory in Edam, plenty for a good life.

 

Is it really the EU that's anti- working man?

 

Likewise! I spent nearly a year working in the shipyards in Gdansk earning good coin (particularly compared to what the local population were earning). But this falls under freedom of movement, which to me is a different kettle of fish (and the best thing about being part of the EU) to the workers rights I was referring to. The EU will always rule in favour of big business and this can’t be right. 

 

Although it has has done a lot of good for the working man, it has also done a lot of bad and I can only see it going in one direction in the future to try and compete with the rest of the world.

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1 minute ago, jambo89 said:

 

Likewise! I spent nearly a year working in the shipyards in Gdansk earning good coin (particularly compared to what the local population were earning). But this falls under freedom of movement, which to me is a different kettle of fish (and the best thing about being part of the EU) to the workers rights I was referring to. The EU will always rule in favour of big business and this can’t be right. 

 

Although it has has done a lot of good for the working man, it has also done a lot of bad and I can only see it going in one direction in the future to try and compete with the rest of the world.

 

I feel like this is a good conversation, if you can tell me why you reckon the EU is particularly bad for the working man, compared to, say, a Tory government unfettered by EU regulations on workers' rights I'll give you a fair ear.

 

These are the conversations we should be having and it's good to have them in the right spirit, this thread gets very boring a lot of the time

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6 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

See the Dutch railways as an example.  It is possible.

 

 

This in spades!

 

Possible but extremely difficult I would imagine!? I find it strange that Jeremy Corbyn, a man who has spent most of his life in politics, and probably knows more about the EU than you or I, takes the view that it is effectively impossible for state ownership. 

 

I also get get the feeling that it would be extremely difficult to do for an export company (I.e. British steel) rather than a service company, but as mentioned earlier I don’t know enough. 

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The un-policed,   deregulated,   free market model is no longer fit for purpose in the UK.     Open season for every spiv to get away with virtually anything with impunity.     The Tories are unable to arrest the descent into overt gangsterism because the model represents their very existence.     The answer may not be traditional socialism but it certainly isn't a continuation of the state sponsored exploitation of mutual advantage created by free marketeers.

 

One nation conservatism = every citizen is entitled to participate in the dog-eat-dog world of unchecked capitalism.    

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4 minutes ago, jambo89 said:

 

Possible but extremely difficult I would imagine!? I find it strange that Jeremy Corbyn, a man who has spent most of his life in politics, and probably knows more about the EU than you or I, takes the view that it is effectively impossible for state ownership. 

 

I also get get the feeling that it would be extremely difficult to do for an export company (I.e. British steel) rather than a service company, but as mentioned earlier I don’t know enough. 

 

IIRC NS is still essentially a private company, but one whose shares are owned outright by the state.

The old pre privatisation industries didn't have shares, they were basically government departments, so I'd guess that taking over ownership of all the shares would be allowed while bringing the actual company back into the state wouldn't. 

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Governor Tarkin
12 minutes ago, jambo89 said:

Although it has has done a lot of good for the working man, it has also done a lot of bad and I can only see it going in one direction in the future to try and compete with the rest of the world.

 

Like helping to prevent them from being forced into uniform, given a gun, and be sent off to kill and be killed by their brothers from across the way on some map.

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11 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I feel like this is a good conversation, if you can tell me why you reckon the EU is particularly bad for the working man, compared to, say, a Tory government unfettered by EU regulations on workers' rights I'll give you a fair ear.

 

These are the conversations we should be having and it's good to have them in the right spirit, this thread gets very boring a lot of the time

 

The tories were able to change the laws regarding strike action with the 50% turn out rule. Where was the EU then protecting our rights? 

 

The ECJ ruled in the lavall case that strike action of the fisherman was illegal as it harmed the business rights to operate competitively. Again, big business trumps workers rights!!

 

The Transatlantic Trade Partnership (it will come eventually) effectively gives big business the right to sue governments if there decisions effect profits (see the wind farm case).

 

No matter what you think of our government, the politicians are elected by the people to represent us! For them to be hamstrung under rules which effectively gives big business rights over elected officials is wrong and further erosion of workers / common mans rights. 

 

I have no desire to live in a UK run by the tories after we leave. However there is no doubt in my mind that if we leave the EU, independence will be much closer / inevitable, so to answer your question about why I think it would be better for the working man to have the Tories in charge ‘unfettered’ is because

 

a) I don’t think the EU has done a very good job for protecting our rights 

 

and 

 

b) I don’t believe the tories will be in charge of our rights as I believe, strongly, it will bring about independence.

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jack D and coke
26 minutes ago, jambo89 said:

 

Likewise! I spent nearly a year working in the shipyards in Gdansk earning good coin (particularly compared to what the local population were earning). But this falls under freedom of movement, which to me is a different kettle of fish (and the best thing about being part of the EU) to the workers rights I was referring to. The EU will always rule in favour of big business and this can’t be right. 

 

Although it has has done a lot of good for the working man, it has also done a lot of bad and I can only see it going in one direction in the future to try and compete with the rest of the world.

Who doesn’t do the best for big business? Sadly they control government. 

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13 minutes ago, jambo89 said:

 

The tories were able to change the laws regarding strike action with the 50% turn out rule. Where was the EU then protecting our rights? 

 

The ECJ ruled in the lavall case that strike action of the fisherman was illegal as it harmed the business rights to operate competitively. Again, big business trumps workers rights!!

 

The Transatlantic Trade Partnership (it will come eventually) effectively gives big business the right to sue governments if there decisions effect profits (see the wind farm case).

 

No matter what you think of our government, the politicians are elected by the people to represent us! For them to be hamstrung under rules which effectively gives big business rights over elected officials is wrong and further erosion of workers / common mans rights. 

 

I have no desire to live in a UK run by the tories after we leave. However there is no doubt in my mind that if we leave the EU, independence will be much closer / inevitable, so to answer your question about why I think it would be better for the working man to have the Tories in charge ‘unfettered’ is because

 

a) I don’t think the EU has done a very good job for protecting our rights 

 

and 

 

b) I don’t believe the tories will be in charge of our rights as I believe, strongly, it will bring about independence.

 

It isn't up to the EU to protect us from our government, and anyway, if May's plan ever gets voted through the ECJ will still have authority over matters we have in common with the EU.

 

But in terms of the working man, to go back to your experience abroad it doesn't compare. I wasn't in a specialist industry being paid more than the locals, I was in a zero skill factory working with locals and foreigners alike, all for similar wages. The working man lives well in Holland. 

 

There are certainly things I don't like about the EU but I think it's a very good idea to be part of it rather than on the outside with its influence affecting us (a market of 400+ million on our doorstep can't fail to have influence!) and having no say in it whatsoever. 

Edited by Smithee
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35 minutes ago, jambo89 said:

 

Possible but extremely difficult I would imagine!? I find it strange that Jeremy Corbyn, a man who has spent most of his life in politics, and probably knows more about the EU than you or I, takes the view that it is effectively impossible for state ownership. 

 

I also get get the feeling that it would be extremely difficult to do for an export company (I.e. British steel) rather than a service company, but as mentioned earlier I don’t know enough. 

 

26 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

IIRC NS is still essentially a private company, but one whose shares are owned outright by the state.

The old pre privatisation industries didn't have shares, they were basically government departments, so I'd guess that taking over ownership of all the shares would be allowed while bringing the actual company back into the state wouldn't. 

 

I'm guessing that this is a bit like the way LRT Buses are set up.  Private company but publically owned.

 

I think you fall foul of EU regulations if you are state owned and receiving state subsidies as this isn't fair in the wider market.  A bit like football's Financial Fair Play and we all know that works!

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Government isn't doing anything more on Brexit until they come back from hols on 4 June. 

 

Will update on publishing Bill to leave then but not being debated that week. Say earliest will publish a draft Bill is 3 June.  

 

Which is all predicted won't happen now or will all be changed due to backlash from Tories.  

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2 hours ago, jambo89 said:

 

Yeh I should’ve caveated my post with the above (I realise this would never happen under Tory rule) but we do have an opposition leader who would.

 

I also agree that there are huge differences between The UK and the EU, and Scotland and Westminster. But to categorically claim that they are not comparable is wrong in my opinion. 

 

As an aside, is it Abellios (the private arm) who runs the trains in The Netherlands or actually the state? 

 

 

You've had the long winded, replies referencing politics and political principles but it all boils down to this simple statement.

 

There is nothing stopping the Tories from doing the right thing.

 

As for opposition, we don't have one.

 

 

They are not comparable due to the simple fact that members of the EU parliament work together whilst members of the Westminster parliament do as little of the first word as they can and do not recognise the second word at all.

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Dusk_Till_Dawn

I'd love to know what May thinks she's doing.

 

She's never going to get a deal through in any form. She must know that. Maybe, as a confirmed remainer, she's now hoping that if she sticks around for long enough getting nowhere, the whole thing will collapse.

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1 hour ago, Sraman said:

 

 

You've had the long winded, replies referencing politics and political principles but it all boils down to this simple statement.

 

There is nothing stopping the Tories from doing the right thing.

 

As for opposition, we don't have one.

 

 

They are not comparable due to the simple fact that members of the EU parliament work together whilst members of the Westminster parliament do as little of the first word as they can and do not recognise the second word at all.

 

Your rather condescending post was that they are not even remotely comparable.

 

My point was that the EU and Tories both fetishise big-business and capitalism and are anti-workers rights. In that respect they are 2 sides to the same coin. 

 

If if you want to argue the opposite, I would be happy to read examples of their progressive policies that have prioritised workers over big business.

 

2 hours ago, Boris said:

 

 

I'm guessing that this is a bit like the way LRT Buses are set up.  Private company but publically owned.

 

I think you fall foul of EU regulations if you are state owned and receiving state subsidies as this isn't fair in the wider market.  A bit like football's Financial Fair Play and we all know that works!

 

So due to EU rules, the government could not, for example, buy out / own an energy provider and reduce the cost of energy prices via subsidies from tax intake, therefore undercutting the competition and providing cheap energy to the masses. This would of course reduce the cost of living for millions in Britain’s poorest areas (the north mainly) possibly increasing tax intake as people have more money to spend! Win win!! However the EU deem this unfair to the super rich energy companies! How very progressive of them!   

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  • davemclaren changed the title to Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

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