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Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )


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18 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

I acknowledged that. Let’s be realistic though, does anyone really think no one is speaking off camera! 

 

We know they are speaking off camera, however do you really believe that anything of substance is actually being 'negotiated'?

 

We know what both sides red lines are, and we know there's no possible way of both parties getting what they want without one of them caving. So what can they be negotiating? 

 

We're now in a situation where a no deal scenario might be in the best interest of the Prime Minister and Conservative party, but the complete opposite for what is best for the country.

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1 minute ago, Toggie88 said:

, however do you really believe that anything of substance is actually being 'negotiated'?

 

Who knows. I don’t and you don’t. 

4 minutes ago, Toggie88 said:

, but the complete opposite for what is best for the country.

 

In your opinion. 

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1 hour ago, Victorian said:

 

The leading Labour grumblers could not be more transparent if they tried.    Corbyn is being bizarrely accused of being a facilitator of a Tory Brexit.     Yet his strategy and stated preferred outcomes couldn't be further from anything the Tories have proposed,   government or other factions.

 

The Labour grumblers are rank opportunists.      Total wankers.

There's delusion folks.

That's all for now.

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4 minutes ago, Toggie88 said:

 

And every economist's.

 

Including the ones that are saying the EU finances are on the down. 

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Just now, Dannie Boy said:

Including the ones that are saying the EU finances are on the down. 

Don't think they're advocating a no deal, are they? 

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15 minutes ago, Toggie88 said:

Don't think they're advocating a no deal, are they? 

 

No idea.Have you asked them? 

The EU down turn is a China driven event, very little to do with Brexit if at all.

I’ve read that there’s 100k VW workers jobs in  Germany at risk due to Brexit. This whole thing and it’s initial Detrimental effects is not just impacting on the UK. If these jobs are in fact at risk I’m sure businesses in Germany will be lobbying the EU to seek to over come any perceived differences and difficulties. 

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27 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

No idea.Have you asked them? 

The EU down turn is a China driven event, very little to do with Brexit if at all.

I’ve read that there’s 100k VW workers jobs in  Germany at risk due to Brexit. This whole thing and it’s initial Detrimental effects is not just impacting on the UK. If these jobs are in fact at risk I’m sure businesses in Germany will be lobbying the EU to seek to over come any perceived differences and difficulties. 

 

 

Can you find a source for your "I've read that" quote?  The UK accounts for somewhere between 2 and 2.5 percent of VW's sales.  The company employs about 640,000 people.  If they lose 2 to 2.5 percent of sales and that were to mean they had to lay people off (which it probably wouldn't given VW's way of operating), that would come nowhere near 100,000.  That's the entire VW group, by the way.

 

Like every other major exporter in the EU 27, VW sells far more to the Single Market than it does to the UK.  That's the key market to protect, and that's what both VW and the German government will seek to do.

 

I've said it before, but it bears repeating.  If the EU 27 is asked to make concessions to the UK that risk its internal market, it cannot and will not do so, because that internal market is almost seven times as big, and seven times more important.

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4 hours ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

It amazes me that people like yourself think there is no negotiating taking place. You have no idea what is going on behind the scenes, neither do I for that matter but does anyone think that nothing is happening. Don’t forget this is the EU who have history of last second deals. 

I don't think there is no negotiating taking place, EU negotiators have said so and this is backed up by Varadkar, Merkel and senior ministers in EU who all say  - WA is done and will not be renegotiated. How many times do they have  to say it ? If there IS negotiating going on it WILL not affect WA because  if it did , the whole EU position / negotiations on the future relationship are going to be very difficult because EU will have demonstrated they are weak. This is a game of bluff by May. Why is Jeremy Hunt saying he is off to Poland for "negotiations" when May has already come back from Brussels last week, empty handed. This is all wishful thinking so that if No Deal happens the media will try to pin it all on Brussels. But Brussels don't care. 

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1 hour ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

No idea.Have you asked them? 

The EU down turn is a China driven event, very little to do with Brexit if at all.

I’ve read that there’s 100k VW workers jobs in  Germany at risk due to Brexit. This whole thing and it’s initial Detrimental effects is not just impacting on the UK. If these jobs are in fact at risk I’m sure businesses in Germany will be lobbying the EU to seek to over come any perceived differences and difficulties. 

You've been Googling the Daily Fascist website, haven't you ?

They said this .....

  • Wolfsburg, the home of Volkswagen, could see as many as 500 jobs under threat

The whole article is pure invention

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5 hours ago, jake said:

There's delusion folks.

That's all for now.

100, 000 VW jobs at risk, quoted by Danny Toryboy.  Now that's delusional. Anyone who thinks that the UK leaving the EU will somehow destroy it, need to find another God to pray to, as he's busy pissing himself laughing.

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The Mighty Thor
9 hours ago, Victorian said:

It would actually suit both sides to publicise any progress.    As an encouragement to parliament that an acceptable deal is still possible.    Some degree of hope for business throughout Europe.     

 

If May was making ANY sort of impression on the EU... we would be being told all about her success.

 

Nah.  No way Pedro.    All intimations of so-called negotiations are entirely fantasy.

Here's an update for you. From the department of International trade, led by Liam Fox. It's a list of the 'Easiest Trade Deals in history' that he's managed to secure with 40 odd days to go;

 

Switzerland

Chile

Eastern African block

Southern African block

Faroe islands

 

That's the list of global superpowers we have deals in place with. With 44 days to go. 

 

This time next year Rodney, we'll be Millionaires.....

 

:cornette:

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

 

Can you find a source for your "I've read that" quote?  The UK accounts for somewhere between 2 and 2.5 percent of VW's sales.  The company employs about 640,000 people.  If they lose 2 to 2.5 percent of sales and that were to mean they had to lay people off (which it probably wouldn't given VW's way of operating), that would come nowhere near 100,000.  That's the entire VW group, by the way.

 

Like every other major exporter in the EU 27, VW sells far more to the Single Market than it does to the UK.  That's the key market to protect, and that's what both VW and the German government will seek to do.

 

I've said it before, but it bears repeating.  If the EU 27 is asked to make concessions to the UK that risk its internal market, it cannot and will not do so, because that internal market is almost seven times as big, and seven times more important.

 

7 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

You've been Googling the Daily Fascist website, haven't you ?

They said this .....

  • Wolfsburg, the home of Volkswagen, could see as many as 500 jobs under threat

The whole article is pure invention

 

 

An influential economic research centre has warned that 100,000 jobs could be put at risk in Germany if the UK leaves the EU without securing a deal. 

The study by the Halle Institute for Economic Research found that jobs in the car industry would be particularly vulnerable to the uncertainties created by Britain tumbling out of the EU without securing a favourable trading relationship.

Export giant Germany sold 770,000 vehicles to the UK in 2017 and 15,000 jobs in its automobile sector are reliant on this huge level of trade.

The study estimates that Wolfsburg, hometown of Volkswagen, would be hit hardest by a collapse in exports that would result from a no-deal exit.

Some 500 jobs, or roughly...

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/02/10/100000-german-jobs-risk-no-deal-brexit/

 

My 100,000 VW jobs was obviously wrong as it was recalled from memory when it was discussing it but my point is and was lots of jobs COULD be lost  on all sides due to a Brexit with no deal. 

Like all these assertions and figures of losses they are all guess work educated or otherwise. 

 

 

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11 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Public enough

 

But meetings might not be negotiations

 

 

 

I'd pay a lot for a PM who was as intelligent and honest as Guy Verhofstadt. 

 

The European nations with consensual government produce much more rounded and intelligent leadership than the opportunist brand we get like Cameron and May.

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1 hour ago, JamboX2 said:

 

I'd pay a lot for a PM who was as intelligent and honest as Guy Verhofstadt. 

 

The European nations with consensual government produce much more rounded and intelligent leadership than the opportunist brand we get like Cameron and May.

 

You have just described 21st century Conservatism exactly as it is.  Spivism of the highest order.

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1 hour ago, JamboX2 said:

 

I'd pay a lot for a PM who was as intelligent and honest as Guy Verhofstadt. 

 

The European nations with consensual government produce much more rounded and intelligent leadership than the opportunist brand we get like Cameron and May.

 

Indeed - the whole Brexit process has made the idea of a federal Europe all the more appealing! 

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3 hours ago, JamboX2 said:

 

I'd pay a lot for a PM who was as intelligent and honest as Guy Verhofstadt. 

 

The European nations with consensual government produce much more rounded and intelligent leadership than the opportunist brand we get like Cameron and May.

Sadly they are thin on the ground.

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1 hour ago, Toggie88 said:

 

Indeed - the whole Brexit process has made the idea of a federal Europe all the more appealing! 

The opposite in my opinion, unless you want an imperialist super state grabbing land and money from the workers in the interests of the global cartels.

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"Ministers have been warned not to be lured into Brexit discussions with their UK counterparts amid deep unease over how a meeting between the Irish and UK attorney generals was portrayed.

The Government believes details of Séamus Woulfe's meeting with Geoffrey Cox was leaked in advance to the UK media as part of a bid to "make it more than it was".

The engagement, which took place in Dublin last Friday, was reported as a discussion on how legally binding changes could be made to the backstop in the Brexit Withdrawal Agreement.

 

However, the EU and Ireland have repeatedly stated that the Withdrawal Agreement will not be reopened under any circumstances.

In a sign of the distrust between the two governments, senior Irish ministers were yesterday told to be sceptical about any requests for meetings from the UK.

"There is a fear they will try to 'bilateralise' ministers like what was done to the Attorney General," said a source.

As a member of the EU27, the Irish Government has always insisted that it cannot negotiate on a bilateral basis with the UK.

In the House of Commons yesterday, Prime Minister Theresa May cited the meeting between the two attorney generals as a sign of progress in her mission to get the backstop changed......

 

"The talks are at a crucial stage," Mrs May told parliament. "We now all need to hold our nerve to get the changes this House requires and deliver Brexit on time."

 

Full article here - https://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/ministers-warned-to-be-wary-of-meeting-requests-from-uk-37811456.html

 

Juncker went out of his way to tweet he doesn't know what May is talking about - there are no talks. May is all but lying to Parliament to delay this. 

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3 hours ago, Boris said:

 

You have just described 21st century Conservatism exactly as it is.  Spivism of the highest order.

 

Corbyn and Sturgeon ain't much better.

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2 hours ago, SE16 3LN said:

The opposite in my opinion, unless you want an imperialist super state grabbing land and money from the workers in the interests of the global cartels.

 

The City of London.

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1 hour ago, JamboX2 said:

 

The City of London.

Not to worry, once free of EU shackles the tories will save the workers from these global cartels. They're all about protecting the workers, the tories. 

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"Not possible" to achieve trade deals with certain countries because they want to erode our standards of human rights.

 

Hmmmmmm.    How do you like them apples?      How's your eutopian world Brexit looking now?

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6 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

 

"Ministers have been warned not to be lured into Brexit discussions with their UK counterparts amid deep unease over how a meeting between the Irish and UK attorney generals was portrayed.

The Government believes details of Séamus Woulfe's meeting with Geoffrey Cox was leaked in advance to the UK media as part of a bid to "make it more than it was".

The engagement, which took place in Dublin last Friday, was reported as a discussion on how legally binding changes could be made to the backstop in the Brexit Withdrawal Agreement.

 

However, the EU and Ireland have repeatedly stated that the Withdrawal Agreement will not be reopened under any circumstances.

In a sign of the distrust between the two governments, senior Irish ministers were yesterday told to be sceptical about any requests for meetings from the UK.

"There is a fear they will try to 'bilateralise' ministers like what was done to the Attorney General," said a source.

As a member of the EU27, the Irish Government has always insisted that it cannot negotiate on a bilateral basis with the UK.

In the House of Commons yesterday, Prime Minister Theresa May cited the meeting between the two attorney generals as a sign of progress in her mission to get the backstop changed......

 

"The talks are at a crucial stage," Mrs May told parliament. "We now all need to hold our nerve to get the changes this House requires and deliver Brexit on time."

 

Full article here - https://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/ministers-warned-to-be-wary-of-meeting-requests-from-uk-37811456.html

 

Juncker went out of his way to tweet he doesn't know what May is talking about - there are no talks. May is all but lying to Parliament to delay this. 

 

Indeed.

 

Tusk said that the UK has not submitted word #1 regarding what it wants to amend the deal.     It's a complete sham.

 

There. Are. No. Negotiations.

 

She's lying to parliament and getting away with it.

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7 hours ago, SE16 3LN said:

The opposite in my opinion, unless you want an imperialist super state grabbing land and money from the workers in the interests of the global cartels.

 

Was about to respond to SE16 3LN myself, but this is case and point. 

 

5 hours ago, JamboX2 said:

 

The City of London.

 

https://www.newstatesman.com/economy/2011/02/london-corporation-city

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9 hours ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

No need to lie about figures. Just makes you look incredibly stupid. 

 

I think Dannie Boy misinterpreted or misunderstood, but he wasn't trying to lie.

 

He is, IMO, quite correct when he says there are negotiations happening.  They might be going well or badly, and they might be about the Withdrawal Agreement or something else, but they are happening.

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7 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

 

"Ministers have been warned not to be lured into Brexit discussions with their UK counterparts amid deep unease over how a meeting between the Irish and UK attorney generals was portrayed.

The Government believes details of Séamus Woulfe's meeting with Geoffrey Cox was leaked in advance to the UK media as part of a bid to "make it more than it was".

The engagement, which took place in Dublin last Friday, was reported as a discussion on how legally binding changes could be made to the backstop in the Brexit Withdrawal Agreement.

 

However, the EU and Ireland have repeatedly stated that the Withdrawal Agreement will not be reopened under any circumstances.

In a sign of the distrust between the two governments, senior Irish ministers were yesterday told to be sceptical about any requests for meetings from the UK.

"There is a fear they will try to 'bilateralise' ministers like what was done to the Attorney General," said a source.

As a member of the EU27, the Irish Government has always insisted that it cannot negotiate on a bilateral basis with the UK.

In the House of Commons yesterday, Prime Minister Theresa May cited the meeting between the two attorney generals as a sign of progress in her mission to get the backstop changed......

 

"The talks are at a crucial stage," Mrs May told parliament. "We now all need to hold our nerve to get the changes this House requires and deliver Brexit on time."

 

Full article here - https://www.independent.ie/business/brexit/ministers-warned-to-be-wary-of-meeting-requests-from-uk-37811456.html

 

Juncker went out of his way to tweet he doesn't know what May is talking about - there are no talks. May is all but lying to Parliament to delay this. 

 

 

I wouldn't be too concerned about one aspect of that.  Nobody on our side is stupid enough to think that the British are trustworthy, and everyone knows that the British government will try to get the media and MPs (the media in particular) to see meetings as more than they are.  The British government have been trying to have bilateral negotiations with everyone since day one.  It's called decision-shopping.

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How the negotiations are going:

 

PM May: "I need to change the deal."

EU: "No."

May: "But I can't get it through the UK Parliament."

EU: "How is that our problem? We made a deal."

May: "We'll rip up the deal and walk out with nothing."

EU: "We are fully prepared for that. Are you?"

May: "I need to change the deal."

 

And round and around we go.

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4 hours ago, Victorian said:

"Not possible" to achieve trade deals with certain countries because they want to erode our standards of human rights.

 

 

Isn't that a good thing?

 

 

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1 minute ago, jake said:

Isn't that a good thing?

 

 

 

No, it isn't.  According to Liam Fox, these countries already have trade deals with the EU, with built-in human rights standards, but they want to lower the standards so that the UK can continue to trade with them.

 

In other words drop the human rights or the access the UK has now gets taken away.

 

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In other news, Bertie Ahern, who was Taoiseach at the time the Good Friday Agreement was ratified, spoke to the Commons Committee on Exiting the EU.

 

"Belfast is not the same as Finchley."

 

And that poor unfortunate Craig Mackinlay didn't fare too well either.

 

“I’m afraid even as a good Brexiter you’ve made the argument for the backstop.”

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/13/northern-ireland-belfast-finchley-not-same-bertie-ahern-brexit-committee

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4 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

No, it isn't.  According to Liam Fox, these countries already have trade deals with the EU, with built-in human rights standards, but they want to lower the standards so that the UK can continue to trade with them.

 

In other words drop the human rights or the access the UK has now gets taken away.

 

I was under the impression the" Not possible" was the UK response to the demand .

Which countries are asking this of the UK?

 

And these built in human rights standards the EU has.

I struggle a bit with that saying as France exports  billions of arms to some of the worst culprits regarding human rights.

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29 minutes ago, jake said:

I was under the impression the" Not possible" was the UK response to the demand .

Which countries are asking this of the UK?

 

And these built in human rights standards the EU has.

I struggle a bit with that saying as France exports  billions of arms to some of the worst culprits regarding human rights.

 

 

Yep - which means the UK will have tariffs imposed by those countries, while the rest of the EU doesn't.  The UK could have maintained trade with those countries, and not compromised on its standards of human rights, by staying in the EU or the EEA.

 

Liam Fox didn't specify which countries.  He was probably trying to big up Britain's human rights credentials, but all he's done is show that the UK has less bargaining power with other countries outside the EU than inside. 

 

You can struggle all you like, but it's not some beardy leftie who is telling you this - it's one of the Cabinet's biggest Brexit fans, the guy who told you all that the trade deals would be easy.  The UK will be offered worse trade deals by other countries than the EU already has.  Some of this will be about worsening standards (chlorinated chicken, anyone?), or lowering human rights standards, or better access for their people to the UK (more immigration from India, Pakistan and China, that'll cheer up UKIP no end).  Japan and South Korea are already looking for better trade terms for them.  India is looking for more access for its emigrants.  Don't think for a moment that China will suit anyone other than the Chinese.  The USA won't do good business with anyone, and when they get back into the game TTIP will be their bigger priority.

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The Mighty Thor
6 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

 

Yep - which means the UK will have tariffs imposed by those countries, while the rest of the EU doesn't.  The UK could have maintained trade with those countries, and not compromised on its standards of human rights, by staying in the EU or the EEA.

 

Liam Fox didn't specify which countries.  He was probably trying to big up Britain's human rights credentials, but all he's done is show that the UK has less bargaining power with other countries outside the EU than inside. 

 

You can struggle all you like, but it's not some beardy leftie who is telling you this - it's one of the Cabinet's biggest Brexit fans, the guy who told you all that the trade deals would be easy.  The UK will be offered worse trade deals by other countries than the EU already has.  Some of this will be about worsening standards (chlorinated chicken, anyone?), or lowering human rights standards, or better access for their people to the UK (more immigration from India, Pakistan and China, that'll cheer up UKIP no end).  Japan and South Korea are already looking for better trade terms for them.  India is looking for more access for its emigrants.  Don't think for a moment that China will suit anyone other than the Chinese.  The USA won't do good business with anyone, and when they get back into the game TTIP will be their bigger priority.

We do, however, have a trade deal in the bag with the Faroe islands.

The rest, my friend, is project fear. 

 

 

Isn't it?

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Joey J J Jr Shabadoo
11 hours ago, Ulysses said:

 

I think Dannie Boy misinterpreted or misunderstood, but he wasn't trying to lie.

 

He is, IMO, quite correct when he says there are negotiations happening.  They might be going well or badly, and they might be about the Withdrawal Agreement or something else, but they are happening.

Ah, he's more of a Diane Abbott than a Boris Johnson? 

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Once again Labour show they put party politics before the good of the country by refusing to vote for an amendment, simply because it was raised by the SNP. Pathetic but no more than is expected by that lot. They don't have a clue what they want as far as brexit is concerned but they know they can't back anything to do with the SNP no matter what. Compare that with the SNP who have always voted for what they feel is best for Scotland, even if it means backing the tories/labour 

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"That this House welcomes the prime minister’s statement of 12 February 2019; reiterates its support for the approach to leaving the EU expressed by this House on 29 January 2019 and notes that discussions between the UK and the EU on the Northern Ireland backstop are ongoing."

 

Defeated by 303 votes to 258.

 

 

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The Mighty Thor
55 minutes ago, Cade said:

"That this House welcomes the prime minister’s statement of 12 February 2019; reiterates its support for the approach to leaving the EU expressed by this House on 29 January 2019 and notes that discussions between the UK and the EU on the Northern Ireland backstop are ongoing."

 

Defeated by 303 votes to 258.

 

 

Then releases a statement blaming Corbyn for the whole thing.

 

Whilst I think he's a fud of biblical proportions, and he's culpable, this whole cluster**** is all May's 

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9 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

SNP are now an irrelevant party and Jimmy’s coat on a shooglie peg with infighting 

ta ta ?

Oh dear????.   Great input to the debate

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:vrface:

 

Andrea Leadsom.   Latest defeat is a "hiccup".     Blames Labour for playing party politics by not voting with the liar... even though 67 Tory MPs abstained.

 

This is what governs us.     A absolute car crash of a minister.

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UK sends carrier to the South China Sea, threatening lethal force to maintain international law, in a pathetic attempt to bully China.

 

China pulls out of trade talks with the UK.

 

:rofl:

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The Mighty Thor
12 minutes ago, Cade said:

UK sends carrier to the South China Sea, threatening lethal force to maintain international law, in a pathetic attempt to bully China.

 

China pulls out of trade talks with the UK.

 

:rofl:

Is that our carrier that has no planes? 

They'll be shitting themselves.

 

Again the UK thinking it's a global power and puffing out it's chest. Laughable. 

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Thunderstruck
3 hours ago, Cade said:

UK sends carrier to the South China Sea, threatening lethal force to maintain international law, in a pathetic attempt to bully China.

 

China pulls out of trade talks with the UK.

 

:rofl:

 

The deployment was first announced in June last year. That was followed by an announcement that the Dutch Navy would be part of the Task Group. Other nations will inevitably be involved - all to the end of exerting the right to transit through international waters. 

 

We might ask why China is only now getting hot and bothered - surely it will not be to deflect attention from growing condemnation of China’s mistreatment of the Uighur people and the attention that will be given to that issue in next week’s annual meeting of the UN Human Rights Council. 

 

The issue of the Paracels and Spratlys has been rumbling on for decades but China has recently taken to occupying and building on some of them. A quick glance at the map shows that China’s claim delineated by the 9 dashes is optimistic in the extreme given that Vietnam, Taiwan, The Philippines, Malaysia and Borneo also have territorial waters that extend into the South China Sea. 

A357694C-4B29-4867-8AD0-E5B4E15338F0.jpeg

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31 minutes ago, RobboM said:

Brexit claims yet another casualty. FlyBMI goes into administration

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47267901

 

 

That’s what they’re blaming it on anyway. In reality their services simply aren’t attracting enough passengers. They fly small planes too. Simon Calder, who knows the travel industry inside out says their planes are less than half full on average. Their main hub is also East Midlands Airport, which doesn't give them much reach. Ryanair and EasyJet flights are typically 90% full.

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  • davemclaren changed the title to Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

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