Ulysses Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 1 minute ago, The Mighty Thor said: I think any proposal that requires reasonable and rational behaviour from the UK government will fall on it's arse. There's too many factions in there and it's potentially powderkeg stuff if one side or the other doesn't get what it wants. There are also too many things that can go wrong that are outside the control of either the EU institutions or the UK government. You can see the possibility of both sides being rational and careful because they'll be in the process of negotiating a trade agreement - and then all hell breaking loose because a truckload of migrants is discovered having crossed from Calais to Dover or from Dundalk into Newry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 8 minutes ago, Ulysses said: There are also too many things that can go wrong that are outside the control of either the EU institutions or the UK government. You can see the possibility of both sides being rational and careful because they'll be in the process of negotiating a trade agreement - and then all hell breaking loose because a truckload of migrants is discovered having crossed from Calais to Dover or from Dundalk into Newry. Quite. The response to the current rubber dinghy rapids landings by a handful demonstrates the UKs inability to manage circumstances. We'll see what this week at the panto brings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oilrig jambo Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 2 hours ago, Francis Albert said: The daily mail under its new editor has for months been fiercely opposed to a no deal outcome. He was previously editor of the Mail on Sunday which was always highly critical of the Mogg/Boris hard brexit faction. The Mail has now become a left of centre remainer rag Iv'e stopped buying it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notts1874 Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CavySlaveJambo Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 3 hours ago, Ulysses said: I'm one of those who thinks that "something will come up", but TBH I've no idea what it is. I've heard a suggestion that the EU27 will treat the UK as not having left until such time as the UK changes its treatment of the EU27. This would mean not imposing any additional checks unless the UK changes the import-export scene in some way (e.g. by reaching a new trade agreement with someone) or else imposes restrictions on EU27 citizens. While that is plausible, and would make sense given the EU27's role as "the adult in the room", it has major downside risks given the untrustworthy behaviour of the UK government since the last General Election. We wait and see. Could this be a way for the EU27 to try and Salvage the Belfast/Good Friday Agreement? Because all along they seem to be the ones trying to make sure it has not been forgotten and that it does remain in place? And as for Plan B - surely not. How long did that Peace Treaty take to get in the first place? The events of last night should surely show the stupidity of that plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 1 hour ago, CavySlaveJambo said: Could this be a way for the EU27 to try and Salvage the Belfast/Good Friday Agreement? Because all along they seem to be the ones trying to make sure it has not been forgotten and that it does remain in place? And as for Plan B - surely not. How long did that Peace Treaty take to get in the first place? The events of last night should surely show the stupidity of that plan. I think it's safe to say that notwithstanding the views of the Tory headbanging wing the UK government would like to maintain the Agreement. You'll have to examine the behaviour of the DUP and make up your own mind how they feel about it. I can't see the full Telegraph piece, but I wonder has it dawned on Theresa May that in order to amend both the Belfast/Good Friday Agreement and the Withdrawal Agreement she has to talk to several other people first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Turn Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Pure stupidly from May if she decides to rewrite the GFA. If she re writes the GFA there should be a referendum on it in N.Ireland. If not, it’s just another example of England riding roughshod over Democracy to get their own way, just like they did with the Scots Gov legal challenge which the U.K. government would have lost had they not amended the Scotland Act. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 27 minutes ago, Cruyff Turn said: Pure stupidly from May if she decides to rewrite the GFA. If she re writes the GFA there should be a referendum on it in N.Ireland. If not, it’s just another example of England riding roughshod over Democracy to get their own way, just like they did with the Scots Gov legal challenge which the U.K. government would have lost had they not amended the Scotland Act. What is mays best course of action then as we enter plan B CT., does not matter what she does, be moan moan from the labour benches as if they know what to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Seems rewriting GFA is about committing to No Hard Border Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Turn Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 13 minutes ago, Harry Potter said: What is mays best course of action then as we enter plan B CT., does not matter what she does, be moan moan from the labour benches as if they know what to do. No deal. That’s what people voted for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruyff Turn Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 19 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said: Seems rewriting GFA is about committing to No Hard Border Wonder if the DUP be happy with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 (edited) Sounds like a long shot. At least it surely kills off at last the Remainers' notion (only Leavers "lie" of course) that a hard border would be in breach of the existing Belfast Agreement. (Someone the other day was even claiming on here that a hard border (indeed any sort of border) would subject us to international sanctions for breach of the "international treaty".) Edited January 21, 2019 by Francis Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Not sure what I see is in this for the ROI or EU. The threat of the return of the gunmen and terrorists has been a useful bargaining tool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 "We want to tear up then re-write a UN registered peace treaty which took 20 years to negotiate without consulting the opposing sides of the conflict just so we don't have to abandon our stupid, contradictory red lines" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Cade said: "We want to tear up then re-write a UN registered peace treaty which took 20 years to negotiate without consulting the opposing sides of the conflict just so we don't have to abandon our stupid, contradictory red lines" If anyone was suggesting that it would be outrageous. To say anyone is suggesting that would be called a lie if said by a leaver. Or perhaps cited as evidence they were thick. Edited January 21, 2019 by Francis Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 So it's ok for you to vote again on a deal you lost by 230 votes, PM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Maybe these guys could sort it out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 22 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said: Not at all FA. I've been consistent in one thing. Leave won. Get on with it. The rhetoric is steadily building to a no deal scenario, despite some in parliament trying to prevent it. It's not just politicians either. The public groundswell is growing too, fed of course by the Daily Mail types. I think no deal hard Brexit is a very likely outcome now and as I said in my post, I hope it's brutal. The only realistic way to get change is for things to get so bad that people start to question the absolute pup they've been sold and those that sold them it. There was a great interview on R4 world at one with a business owner from Sunderland who gets his materials from Europe and sells his end product to Europe. He wants no deal. His rationale? Something will come up. No it really won't you fecking bell end. The delicious irony? His workshop is on an industrial estate built with EU regeneration monies. Brilliant eh? So for me, let's crack on with it so we can all move along. Yeah ive seen countless moronic bosses on TV happy about a Brexit and " something" will come along....Incredible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Mikey1874 said: Maybe these guys could sort it out Havent these people got jobs>>? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Great article https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/jan/21/england-rebel-spirit-no-deal-brexit?CMP=fb_gu&fbclid=IwAR2q37NieZyQCvv5-NyJ0l8DU60rQXWxE20Dx4klWa1jEtilJHTUu-hguBI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Good indication of how hard it might to get a popular option Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 1 hour ago, JamesM48 said: Havent these people got jobs>>? I said the exact same thing to my Mrs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, ri Alban said: I said the exact same thing to my Mrs. That pro Remain guy has been there for at least a couple of months. Probably sleeping in a tent somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Just now, Mikey1874 said: That pro Remain guy has been there for at least a couple of months. Probably sleeping in a tent somewhere. He must be minted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Maybot about to tell Parliament what Plan B is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 (edited) Says can't rule out No Deal Not wanting to extend and certainly not revoke Article 50 Not wanting second Referendum So just wants her Deal approved - no change to N.Ireland peace deal - more talks with MPs and others this week then back to EU for changes Edited January 21, 2019 by Mikey1874 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 (edited) Blah blah blah blah Offering more talks with Parliament on negotiations on future final Deal (Not current leaving Deal), confirm workers rights etc. Edited January 21, 2019 by Mikey1874 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 (edited) EU settled status - fee of £65 to apply ditched Edited January 21, 2019 by Mikey1874 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 (edited) Am I the only person who likes John Bercow's patter. Edited January 21, 2019 by ri Alban Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 "I asked everybody else what they thought, but I'm rejecting all of that" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 7 minutes ago, ri Alban said: Am I the only person who likes John Bercow's patter. No. I like him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Just now, The Real Maroonblood said: No. I like him. He takes no shite from any of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor jambo Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Just now, Lord BJ said: This is a car crash. May is off her nut, if she thinks she can tweak her deal and get it through. Pound shop Thatcher. Thinks this is a demonstration of strength and indefatigability. It is actually a show of obstinacy and stupidity. The utter disdain being shown for the other parties is unbelievable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Lord BJ said: This is a car crash. May is off her nut, if she thinks she can tweak her deal and get it through. EU will not move on the Backstop so 80 plus Tories plus DUP won't support it So needs Labour to back an agreed deal Edited January 21, 2019 by Mikey1874 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Corbyn not engaging in talks Ian Blackford has had talks but says they are a sham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Go on blackie, intae them. She can say what she wants about Indyref2, but she is full of shite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 So, it's as you were then. Still nobody with any idea what to do or how to do it. 67 days to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Yvette Cooper challenges May to hold votes on her red lines, such as staying out of the customs union. May says there will be a debate next week, and MPs will be able to table amendments. So is this May saying "i know my red lines are what are making this a mess but I can't be seen to be taking them down but you guys could do it for me"??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAYEL Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Interesting from FB though don’t know the author .........: Cadbury moved factory to Poland 2011 with EU grant. Ford Transit moved to Turkey 2013 with EU grant. Jaguar Land Rover has recently agreed to build a new plant in Slovakia with EU grant, owned by Tata, the same company who have trashed our steel works and emptied the workers pension funds. Peugeot closed its Ryton (was Rootes Group) plant and moved production to Slovakia with EU grant. British Army's new Ajax fighting vehicles to be built in SPAIN using SWEDISH steel at the request of the EU to support jobs in Spain with EU grant, rather than Wales. Dyson gone to Malaysia, with an EU loan. Crown Closures, Bournemouth (Was METAL BOX), gone to Poland with EU grant, once employed 1,200. M&S manufacturing gone to far east with EU loan. Hornby models gone. In fact all toys and models now gone from UK along with the patents all with with EU grants. Gillette gone to eastern Europe with EU grant. Texas Instruments Greenock gone to Germany with EU grant. Indesit at Bodelwyddan Wales gone with EU grant. Sekisui Alveo said production at its Merthyr Tydfil Industrial Park foam plant will relocate production to Roermond in the Netherlands, with EU funding. Hoover Merthyr factory moved out of UK to Czech Republic and the Far East by Italian company Candy with EU backing. ICI integration into Holland’s AkzoNobel with EU bank loan and within days of the merger, several factories in the UK, were closed, eliminating 3,500 jobs Boots sold to Italians Stefano Pessina who have based their HQ in Switzerland to avoid tax to the tune of £80 million a year, using an EU loan for the purchase. JDS Uniphase run by two Dutch men, bought up companies in the UK with £20 million in EU 'regeneration' grants, created a pollution nightmare and just closed it all down leaving 1,200 out of work and an environmental clean-up paid for by the UK tax-payer. They also raided the pension fund and drained it dry. UK airports are owned by a Spanish company. Scottish Power is owned by a Spanish company. Most London buses are run by Spanish and German companies. The Hinkley Point C nuclear power station to be built by French company EDF, part owned by the French government, using cheap Chinese steel that has catastrophically failed in other nuclear installations. Now EDF say the costs will be double or more and it will be very late even if it does come online. Swindon was once our producer of rail locomotives and rolling stock. Not any more, it's Bombardier in Derby and due to their losses in the aviation market, that could see the end of the British railways manufacturing altogether even though Bombardier had EU grants to keep Derby going which they diverted to their loss-making aviation side in Canada. 39% of British invention patents have been passed to foreign companies, many of them in the EU The Mini cars that Cameron stood in front of as an example of British engineering, are built by BMW mostly in Holland and Austria. His campaign bus was made in Germany even though we have Plaxton, Optare, Bluebird, Dennis etc., in the UK. The bicycle for the Greens was made in the far east, not by Raleigh UK but then they are probably going to move to the Netherlands too as they have said recently. Anyone who thinks the EU is good for British industry or any other business simply hasn't paid attention to what has been systematically asset-stripped from the UK. Name me one major technology company still running in the UK, I used to contract out to many, then the work just dried up as they were sold off to companies from France, Germany, Holland, Belgium, etc., and now we don't even teach electronic technology for technicians any more, due to EU regulations. I haven't detailed our non-existent fishing industry the EU paid to destroy, nor the farmers being paid NOT to produce food they could sell for more than they get paid to do nothing, don't even go there. I haven't mentioned what it costs us to be asset-stripped like this, nor have I mentioned immigration, nor the risk to our security if control of our armed forces is passed to Brussels or Germany. Find something that's gone the other way, I've looked and I just can't. If you think the EU is a good idea, 1/ You haven't read the party manifesto of The European Peoples' Party. 2/ You haven't had to deal with EU petty bureaucracy tearing your business down. 3/ You don't think it matters. OUT OF EUROPE we need to be out of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Rees-Mogg says use the £39 billion exit payment as a negotiation tool. May suggests it will be paid. But £39 billion is insignificant to EU. Loads of MPs really don't get a lot of where the EU stand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said: Rees-Mogg says use the £39 billion exit payment as a negotiation tool. May suggests it will be paid. But £39 billion is insignificant to EU. Loads of MPs really don't get a lot of where the EU stand. So insignificant the EU demanded agreement before any negotiation even on the transition agreement could begin! Edited January 21, 2019 by Francis Albert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JudyJudyJudy Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 1 hour ago, doctor jambo said: Pound shop Thatcher. Thinks this is a demonstration of strength and indefatigability. It is actually a show of obstinacy and stupidity. The utter disdain being shown for the other parties is unbelievable. Hated Thatcher but even she knew when it was time to go and did it rather gracefully and with some dignity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo100 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 May has to wise up.Vote in 2016 52%-48%. On a 74% turn out. 37.3%. Election 2018. .E U people can vote.2/3 commons is remain and 1/3 leave.so the vote in 2016 is correct 35%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 34 minutes ago, Francis Albert said: So insignificant the EU demanded agreement before any negotiation even on the transition agreement could begin! Not what has been reported but either way EU will get by fine without it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 27 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said: Not what has been reported but either way EU will get by fine without it Net contributions but still significant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 33 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said: Not what has been reported but either way EU will get by fine without it Not reported by whom? I have no doubt the EU would get by without it but the preconditions (which the UK stupidly accepted) for talks even beginning were the size of the divorce bill and the Irish border back stop. As clearly as the referendum result was Leave. But I suppose in the Remain cause rewriting history is fine ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gashauskis9 Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Here goes (apologies if controversial), but I don’t think the majority of the UK give a shit about the DUP and their wishes. She’s stalling for time and we’re over a cliff soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 If nothing else, at least this process has shown how disfunctional our parliament is. The right way to handle this was compromise and co-operation from the start. Even now, when it’s all desperate, MPs would rather argue indefinitely than try and find a solution. I mostly blame the Tories and the hard right but Corbyn has been (and is) a waste of skin and there are some on the remain side who have deliberately obstructed the process from the start. I doubt the country has ever been more disillusioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 Plan B: Make Parliament vote for Plan A again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterion Posted January 21, 2019 Share Posted January 21, 2019 1 minute ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said: If nothing else, at least this process has shown how disfunctional our parliament is. The right way to handle this was compromise and co-operation from the start. Even now, when it’s all desperate, MPs would rather argue indefinitely than try and find a solution. I mostly blame the Tories and the hard right but Corbyn has been (and is) a waste of skin and there are some on the remain side who have deliberately obstructed the process from the start. I doubt the country has ever been more disillusioned. It will see many look at proportional representation as a solution to the current blocks of MPs in parliament. As soon as its touted the establishment will shit down any discussion/debate on it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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