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Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )


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jack D and coke
11 minutes ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

The thing is, there’s a plan after Indy is won and what happens, with Brexit there wasn’t and still isn’t. 

There can never be a plan for these things. You won’t get everything you want and neither will the other side. 

Thats where the whole thing went wrong people demanding answers to things nobody can ever answer. You have to want it and the rest sorts it itself over time. 

 

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Space Mackerel
8 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

There can never be a plan for these things. You won’t get everything you want and neither will the other side. 

Thats where the whole thing went wrong people demanding answers to things nobody can ever answer. You have to want it and the rest sorts it itself over time. 

 

 

Scotland is half independent anyway, it’s just a matter of crossing a few T’s and dotting a few I’s. 

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13 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

Awful lot of assumptions built into all those assumptions. Awfully defensive for being so squeaky clean too, especially considering I didn't insinuate the half of what you've convinced yourself I have. For what it's worth, you'd be on my block list, not getting multiple replies, if I thought anything close to that was actually true.

 

You speak of voting on principle--on blind principle--barely a day after you challenged people on their wisdom. The irony of that is apparently also lost on you. But you can't get away from the group you chose to vote with. Much like someone who voted for Donald Trump on principle, there's really no reason to defend the character of the company you've chosen to keep--just live with it and maybe consider next time there can be no wisdom in such a mindless choice.

 

Wait a minute.

I did not vote for anyone.

I voted to leave the EU.

There are many politicians who are the remain side that you would not associate with.

 

And again the choice of words to rubbish my vote as mindless choice.

I call someone a plum and get warning points you and Shaun have found a lot of ways to describe me as thick as the basis of your argument.

 

 

 

Mindless choice is classic I will give you that.

 

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4 hours ago, doctor jambo said:

I just think people are hysterically soft these days.

O2 3g/4g goes down for a day and folk are weeping I n the streets,  unable to cope, phoning 5 Live and going off their heads.

No wonder folk cannot cope with brexit and everyone has mental health problems when they are utterly mentally unprepared for even the smallest luxury to vanish for all of a day

Absolutely no resilience left in most folks, they just cannot cope with adversity or challenge.

Perhaps we should make bullying ( old skool bullying- proper beatings, kicks in the nuts and general terror- not being rude on facebook) compulsory at school

Agree, next thing they will be screaming hysterically about losing their passports and their EU citizenship??

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2 hours ago, JimKongUno said:

 

oils at $50 barrell , struggling to break even at that price

Oil goes up and down in value soon the time. That's why we decided decades ago to have an oil fund to cope with this.  Whoops 

Edited by XB52
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13 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Oil goes up and down in value soon the time. That's why we decided decades ago to have an oil fund to cope with this.  Whoops 

I think he needs to find out what oils what. US crude is now $53pb and Brent is $63 pb. It dropped because producers flooded the market thinking sanctions on Iran from America would cause a shortfall, but they ended up with too much.  Now Russia and SA have agreed to cut production,  setting oil prices soaring 2% for USC and 6% for BC. But hey, nothing matters because in Scotland anything good is worthless. Whisky is worthless at £5b a year to UK. We're doooooooomed.

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The Mighty Thor
1 hour ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Some months back, you revealed your glaring levels of obliviousness on such matters as student loan debt, the near-impossibility of buying a home, fragile or zero hours employment. From that, I suspect you're probably also oblivious that austerity has killed 120,000 people (and that's a figure from years ago; it'll be higher now), not to mention the catastrophic levels of homelessness and the hideous impact of universal credit.

 

When the young and the poor are treated like shit - in the latter case, so much shit that, hello, they voted for Brexit, because the status quo could hardly have failed them more - the right response is not to label them as "having no resilience". 

Shaun 

Your post is a lot of shit, and given the volume of shit you post that's a high bar.

Not agreeing with your point of view is not obliviousness. Your latest incarnation is reaching Bono levels of piousness.

 

Given you know **** all about me r my background your assumption on the deaths linked to austerity and universal credit is frankly ****ing offensive.

 

Your final point is embarassing and in amongst that pile of shite it's a real shining nugget.

 

So in summary. Go **** yourself. 

 

Good evening.

 

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51 minutes ago, jake said:

Wait a minute.

I did not vote for anyone.

I voted to leave the EU.

There are many politicians who are the remain side that you would not associate with.

 

And again the choice of words to rubbish my vote as mindless choice.

I call someone a plum and get warning points you and Shaun have found a lot of ways to describe me as thick as the basis of your argument.

 

 

 

Mindless choice is classic I will give you that.

 

 

Mate you said yourself you voted leave on principle. Pretty much saying you put no thought into it whatsoever, you just did so to express your preconceived underlying belief, "EU bad, Establishment bad". So unless you meant something else by "on principle" . . . in which case you need to more carefully choose your words, because words matter.

 

Just restating what you've said and criticising your choice of vote for exactly what you yourself said it is, I would hope, not a forum rules violation.

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57 minutes ago, jake said:

There are many politicians who are the remain side that you would not associate with.

 

Oh and this bit. Yes, of course there are. That's an excellent point actually.

 

I don't think Jeremy Corbyn is "thick". But he's clearly also voted leave "on principle", without any ****ing concept of what exactly it would entail or mean to the country, especially with Tories in power. Just absolutely ****ing blind to the reality of the situation at the time the question came up.

 

Under different circumstances, I might very well have been inclined to side with Leave. Neither summer 2016 nor now are the time.

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5 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Shaun 

Your post is a lot of shit, and given the volume of shit you post that's a high bar.

Not agreeing with your point of view is not obliviousness. Your latest incarnation is reaching Bono levels of piousness.

 

Given you know **** all about me r my background your assumption on the deaths linked to austerity and universal credit is frankly ****ing offensive.

 

Your final point is embarassing and in amongst that pile of shite it's a real shining nugget.

 

So in summary. Go **** yourself. 

 

Good evening.

 

 

:sob: 

 

Pro tip: if you don't type bollocks, I won't call you out on it. As I will again now. That you're apparently oblivious of how unhappy and angry most peoples across Europe are with the same old awful status quo is truly remarkable. But hey ho, I guess their anger must be because they're just "not resilient". :rolleyes: 

 

I'd never thought you lived in a bubble until the last few months. Now I do.  

 

 

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3 hours ago, JimKongUno said:

 

oils at $50 barrell , struggling to break even at that price

Brent oil is $63 pb. 

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The Mighty Thor
5 minutes ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

:sob: 

 

Pro tip: if you don't type bollocks, I won't call you out on it. As I will again now. That you're apparently oblivious of how unhappy and angry most peoples across Europe are with the same old awful status quo is truly remarkable. But hey ho, I guess their anger must be because they're just "not resilient". :rolleyes: 

 

I'd never thought you lived in a bubble until the last few months. Now I do.  

 

 

Allow me to reiterate. Not agreeing with your skewed world view does not make one oblivious. 

 

Shaun I respect your right to come on here and 'call me out' with your pro tips, rapier wit and wonderful command of the English language and written word, but **** me you don't half come out with some utter shite.

 

I think you're over educated and it prevents you from disseminating other people's posts and not taking away what they are saying but what you think they are saying then compounding it by transposing what you think they are thinking. The end product is borderline offensive at times and generally makes you look like a bit of condescending dick.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Thunderstruck
4 hours ago, XB52 said:

Some of your anti-SNP/Independence posts are funny but this is pure insanity. You can't actually believe that the Unionists in Scotland didn't vote, by a huge majority, to leave the dreaded EU so the glorious Britannia can rule the waves???? 

If you do believe that then I know a Nigerian prince that would love to get in touch with you

 

You would have to indulge is some tortured arithmetic to conclude that the ‘huge’ or even any majority of Unionists in Scotland voted to Leave. Maybe you could show us your workings. 

 

This little chart might help you:-

180F170C-CE8D-4589-96C6-6CBC90A8F642.png

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Space Mackerel
9 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

You would have to indulge is some tortured arithmetic to conclude that the ‘huge’ or even any majority of Unionists in Scotland voted to Leave. Maybe you could show us your workings. 

 

This little chart might help you:-

180F170C-CE8D-4589-96C6-6CBC90A8F642.png

 

YouGov :lol:

 

https://yougov.co.uk/about/investors/board-of-directors/

 

Always good to see a member of HSBC in there. ?

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Thunderstruck
2 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

There can never be a plan for these things. You won’t get everything you want and neither will the other side. 

Thats where the whole thing went wrong people demanding answers to things nobody can ever answer. You have to want it and the rest sorts it itself over time. 

 

 

Good luck selling another ‘no plan’ independence attempt to a population that is sick and tired after years of dispute and uncertainty. How stupid do you think the voting public are if you think it would fly. 

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jack D and coke
51 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

Good luck selling another ‘no plan’ independence attempt to a population that is sick and tired after years of dispute and uncertainty. How stupid do you think the voting public are if you think it would fly. 

No, be honest its not the populace it’s you who is sick and tired because you want the whole thing to go away....well here’s the news it won’t go away and likely won’t be over until you’ve lost.  

It also wouldn’t matter if they laid a plan out a plan and broke it down to the very last penny it would only give the likes of you fuel to try poke holes in absolutely everything. That’s actually what you want, you want a plan so you can attempt to pick phantom holes in something that you have no idea about either, you couldn’t know, nobody does which is kind of my point. 

 

 

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jack D and coke
7 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

So, those Brexit negotiations?

Yeah exactly. Sorry it’s easy for this to spill into ANOTHER Indy chat :facepalm: 

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Thunderstruck
19 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

No, be honest its not the populace it’s you who is sick and tired because you want the whole thing to go away....well here’s the news it won’t go away and likely won’t be over until you’ve lost.  

It also wouldn’t matter if they laid a plan out a plan and broke it down to the very last penny it would only give the likes of you fuel to try poke holes in absolutely everything. That’s actually what you want, you want a plan so you can attempt to pick phantom holes in something that you have no idea about either, you couldn’t know, nobody does which is kind of my point. 

 

 

 

If you don’t pick up on the weariness with constitutional wrangling, you really should get out more. 

 

You don’t want a plan because it would get picked to pieces. If it was a good enough plan, it might be difficult to pick holes in it, don’t you think? 

 

But that’s not the problem, is it? The problem is that you have nothing of tangible worth to sell.

 

You have, at least, confirmed that Democracy is dead with, ‘It won’t be over until you’ve lost’. Then what - a deeply divided Scotland where the ‘losers’ in any vote immediately clamour for a re-run.

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

Oh and this bit. Yes, of course there are. That's an excellent point actually.

 

I don't think Jeremy Corbyn is "thick". But he's clearly also voted leave "on principle", without any ****ing concept of what exactly it would entail or mean to the country, especially with Tories in power. Just absolutely ****ing blind to the reality of the situation at the time the question came up.

 

Under different circumstances, I might very well have been inclined to side with Leave. Neither summer 2016 nor now are the time.

If it is not now it never will be.

 

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jack D and coke
10 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

If you don’t pick up on the weariness with constitutional wrangling, you really should get out more. 

 

You don’t want a plan because it would get picked to pieces. If it was a good enough plan, it might be difficult to pick holes in it, don’t you think? 

 

But that’s not the problem, is it? The problem is that you have nothing of tangible worth to sell.

 

You have, at least, confirmed that Democracy is dead with, ‘It won’t be over until you’ve lost’. Then what - a deeply divided Scotland where the ‘losers’ in any vote immediately clamour for a re-run.

 

 

 

 

Mate maybe I’ll have to break this to you but I’m not the leader of the SNP or the Yes movement so what I think doesn’t really matter. It was a throwaway remark ive been on the piss all night. 

In other news neither does your opinion matter, you’re a dafty that posts on a football forum, just like me. Your opinions are what you think ie not what will happen in any way shape or form. 

Give it a fecking rest with the posts like you know every in and out of Scotland’s economy.  

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Space Mackerel
47 minutes ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

If you don’t pick up on the weariness with constitutional wrangling, you really should get out more. 

 

You don’t want a plan because it would get picked to pieces. If it was a good enough plan, it might be difficult to pick holes in it, don’t you think? 

 

But that’s not the problem, is it? The problem is that you have nothing of tangible worth to sell.

 

You have, at least, confirmed that Democracy is dead with, ‘It won’t be over until you’ve lost’. Then what - a deeply divided Scotland where the ‘losers’ in any vote immediately clamour for a re-run.

 

 

 

 

 

Hark at the old CSF guy who won’t sit down when telt ?

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6 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Allow me to reiterate. Not agreeing with your skewed world view does not make one oblivious. 

 

Shaun I respect your right to come on here and 'call me out' with your pro tips, rapier wit and wonderful command of the English language and written word, but **** me you don't half come out with some utter shite.

 

I think you're over educated and it prevents you from disseminating other people's posts and not taking away what they are saying but what you think they are saying then compounding it by transposing what you think they are thinking. The end product is borderline offensive at times and generally makes you look like a bit of condescending dick.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Noted. I think you're almost certainly right. 

 

For the record, I think young people today are more resilient than their elders. Quite a lot more. They face a far more uncertain, challenging world than the previous two generations. We'll never agree on that, and that's fine.

 

I went way too far in my post earlier, and apologise for that, genuinely. But purely on the subject of home ownership, I'll never accept that an inability to perform the most elementary maths imaginable on your part is a "difference of opinion" at all. House prices have shot up astronomically over the last 30 years; wages have not. And that house prices would shoot up astronomically was precisely Thatcher's offer to the middle and some of the working class: "Wages don't matter any more. Your property wealth and your credit rating does".

 

Leaving us now where we are. But that's a separate point - and the assumption I made earlier was indeed offensive, and very unfair. 

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5 hours ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

Good luck selling another ‘no plan’ independence attempt to a population that is sick and tired after years of dispute and uncertainty. How stupid do you think the voting public are if you think it would fly. 

 

The great irony is the absolute Hibs the UK is making of Brexit is precisely what's going to maintain significant support for Scottish independence. You're quite right, of course, that if and when a second referendum comes, a properly costed, detailed plan will be necessary.

 

But on the subject of the Hibs we're making of things...

 

 

She's right. 

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7 hours ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

Good luck selling another ‘no plan’ independence attempt to a population that is sick and tired after years of dispute and uncertainty. How stupid do you think the voting public are if you think it would fly. 

No plan needed, The Tory of Wm is writing the Independence script all by itself. :D

Game over!

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10 hours ago, jake said:

If it is not now it never will be.

 

 

Maybe, but you can't possibly have the omniscience required to actually know that, speaking of unicorns.

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Francis Albert
11 hours ago, jake said:

If it is not now it never will be.

 

Certainly the issue will never again be put to a public vote that includes a Leave option which has the remotest chance of success - once bitten and all that. 

The EU may however in time spontaneously combust as a result of its own contradictions and fundamental unpopularity. As set out in Shaun's analysis, one of the best demolitions from a left leaning perspective of "the project" I have read.

 

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58 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Maybe, but you can't possibly have the omniscience required to actually know that, speaking of unicorns.

No of course I don't .

It's only those who vote remain who know it all.

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5 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Certainly the issue will never again be put to a public vote that includes a Leave option which has the remotest chance of success - once bitten and all that. 

The EU may however in time spontaneously combust as a result of its own contradictions and fundamental unpopularity. As set out in Shaun's analysis, one of the best demolitions from a left leaning perspective of "the project" I have read.

 

I agree .

The daily onslaught from the media about what MIGHT go wrong is no accident.

The referendum is proof that leaving the EU is not allowed.

Yet I'm supposedly the one who believes in unicorn .

It does seem to be that insulting leave voters is the new argument.

How very progressive .

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11 hours ago, Space Mackerel said:

 

Hark at the old CSF guy who won’t sit down when telt ?

You like others have it all mapped out don't you.

So clever

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I

1 hour ago, jake said:

You like others have it all mapped out don't you.

So clever

I have one map, that's independence for Scotland. If that means putting the boot in with Brexit. Well where's my steelies.

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2 hours ago, jake said:

No of course I don't .

It's only those who vote remain who know it all.

 

2 hours ago, jake said:

Yet I'm supposedly the one who believes in unicorn .

It does seem to be that insulting leave voters is the new argument.

How very progressive .

 

You poor wee victim! Do you actually read this before hitting post? :lol:

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3 hours ago, jake said:

Help me out here.

Doesn't it say IN CASE.

 

 

1. The UK, in its infinite wisdom, voted for something which could lead to this happening.

 

2. The UK government, in its even greater wisdom, has behaved in such a way as to increase the likelihood of this happening.

 

3. You've repeatedly called for no deal - meaning you've actually called for this sort of thing to happen. 

 

4. It states that the government has asked pharmaceutical companies to ensure six weeks' extra supply of medicines. And there, in those words, is the reason for the stockpiling and resultant shortage in pharmacies which I posted about the other day and you - because reality is never convenient to you - dismissed as 'bollocks'. 

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The Real Maroonblood
2 hours ago, ri Alban said:

I

I have one map, that's independence for Scotland. If that means putting the boot in with Brexit. Well where's my steelies.

Fair point.

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2 hours ago, Justin Z said:

 

 

You poor wee victim! Do you actually read this before hitting post? :lol:

Yes. 

 

 

 

Edited by jake
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3 hours ago, ri Alban said:

I

I have one map, that's independence for Scotland. If that means putting the boot in with Brexit. Well where's my steelies.

 

1 hour ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

1. The UK, in its infinite wisdom, voted for something which could lead to this happening.

 

2. The UK government, in its even greater wisdom, has behaved in such a way as to increase the likelihood of this happening.

 

3. You've repeatedly called for no deal - meaning you've actually called for this sort of thing to happen. 

 

4. It states that the government has asked pharmaceutical companies to ensure six weeks' extra supply of medicines. And there, in those words, is the reason for the stockpiling and resultant shortage in pharmacies which I posted about the other day and you - because reality is never convenient to you - dismissed as 'bollocks'. 

1.

Could 

2.

Likely

3.

Only instead of Mays 

4.

That's government being prepared in case isn't it.

 

Nobody knows what will happen but constant negative stories are reported by the news every day on what might .

 

And Aussie how exactly does putting the boot into brexit further the cause of further union break ups.

Imo the SNP will regret their tactics on this.

 

Edited by jake
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7 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Certainly the issue will never again be put to a public vote that includes a Leave option which has the remotest chance of success - once bitten and all that. 

The EU may however in time spontaneously combust as a result of its own contradictions and fundamental unpopularity. As set out in Shaun's analysis, one of the best demolitions from a left leaning perspective of "the project" I have read.

 

 

Why I oughta... :D 

 

Here's another one. From almost as unlikely a source as myself.

 

https://www.pamelaandersonfoundation.org/news/2018/12/8/brexit-and-i-also-starring-shakespeare-and-churchill

 

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9 hours ago, jake said:

No of course I don't .

It's only those who vote remain who know it all.

Jake, the majority of those who voted ‘Remain’, what did they really sign up for?

Closer integration, leading to a European integrated state, an EU army, an increase in immigration. Two weeks in Torremolinos.

Is this what they want and desire?

Or did they not know and are still unaware of what they were voting for.

I suspect the latter.

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On 07/12/2018 at 21:00, The Mighty Thor said:

Allow me to reiterate. Not agreeing with your skewed world view does not make one oblivious. 

 

Shaun I respect your right to come on here and 'call me out' with your pro tips, rapier wit and wonderful command of the English language and written word, but **** me you don't half come out with some utter shite.

 

I think you're over educated and it prevents you from disseminating other people's posts and not taking away what they are saying but what you think they are saying then compounding it by transposing what you think they are thinking. The end product is borderline offensive at times and generally makes you look like a bit of condescending dick.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

:clap:

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1 hour ago, alfajambo said:

Jake, the majority of those who voted ‘Remain’, what did they really sign up for?

 

Closer integration, leading to a European integrated state, an EU army, an increase in immigration. Two weeks in Torremolinos.

 

Is this what they want and desire?

 

Or did they not know and are still unaware of what they were voting for.

 

I suspect the latter.

 

They voted for many  reasons mate.

And I respect their vote. 

I doubt they voted for less democracy more unemployment etc

I doubt they  voted for people on the cheap to clean their toilets.

Or to limit people fleeing from persecution.

Or to allow austerity to be the governing policy that national governments could not dispute.

But they know better.

 

 

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5 hours ago, alfajambo said:

Jake, the majority of those who voted ‘Remain’, what did they really sign up for?

 

Closer integration, leading to a European integrated state, an EU army, an increase in immigration. Two weeks in Torremolinos.

 

Is this what they want and desire?

 

Or did they not know and are still unaware of what they were voting for.

 

I suspect the latter.

 

 

People voted Remain for all kinds of reasons:

 

- Because they believe in the EU

 

- Because, like my German best friend, they regard it as one of the most far-sighted projects ever undertaken

 

- Because the freedom to move, work, live and love is a great thing

 

- Because they're pro-immigration (for moral reasons, or practical ones: exactly how will we pay for hugely rising healthcare and pension costs without significant immigration?)

 

- Because they want to stay in and try to reform it

 

- Because they're expats, taking advantage of the benefits the EU offers

 

- Because they didn't want to send a message of "foreigners out" - a message which was exploited by the hard and far right afterwards, as hate crimes against foreigners skyrocketed

 

- Because Leave offered no plan and no detail

 

- Because they're not Islamophobes

 

- Because we do far better financially in the EU than out of it

 

- Because they saw the chaos of the last 2-and-a-half years coming if we voted to leave

 

- Because they saw through Leave's never-ending lies (like me)

 

- Because they were disgusted by Leave's fear-mongering, xenophobia and racial scapegoating 

 

And many others besides. This idea that, in a binary referendum, everyone who voted Leave did so for the same reasons as you isn't even grown-up. Same with Remain.

 

Edited by shaun.lawson
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12 hours ago, jake said:

 

1.

Could 

2.

Likely

3.

Only instead of Mays 

4.

That's government being prepared in case isn't it.

 

Nobody knows what will happen but constant negative stories are reported by the news every day on what might .

 

And Aussie how exactly does putting the boot into brexit further the cause of further union break ups.

Imo the SNP will regret their tactics on this.

 

Possibly, but I think no deal will swing the vote to yes. (Why I voted remain, and why it's best for the SNP to pretend Brexit is really , really , really bad for Scotland). Then we can vote in a new government to undo all the shite from WM and Holyrood. The SNP will be gone soon enough after sexit. Btw.

 

After Brexit and indy we'll decide who gets to do what here, like trade, fishing and  nukes, not WM. The hypocrisy of taking back sovereignty, borders, and laws  from no voters/unionists should make you sick to your stomach.

 

As for the EU, I'd like to still have freedom of movement on goods , services and workers. But I'd like Scotland to join the Nordic pact of countries.  

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3 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

People voted Remain for all kinds of reasons:

 

- Because they believe in the EU

 

- Because, like my German best friend, they regard it as one of the most far-sighted projects ever undertaken

 

- Because the freedom to move, work, live and love is a great thing

 

- Because they're pro-immigration (for moral reasons, or practical ones: exactly how will we pay for hugely rising healthcare and pension costs without significant immigration?)

 

- Because they want to stay in and try to reform it

 

- Because they're expats, taking advantage of the benefits the EU offers

 

- Because they didn't want to send a message of "foreigners out" - a message which was exploited by the hard and far right afterwards, as hate crimes against foreigners skyrocketed

 

- Because Leave offered no plan and no detail

 

- Because they're not Islamophobes

 

- Because we do far better financially in the EU than out of it

 

- Because they saw the chaos of the last 2-and-a-half years coming if we voted to leave

 

- Because they saw through Leave's never-ending lies (like me)

 

- Because they were disgusted by Leave's fear-mongering, xenophobia and racial scapegoating 

 

And many others besides. This idea that, in a binary referendum, everyone who voted Leave did so for the same reasons as you isn't even grown-up. Same with Remain.

 

You have a view Shaun.

However, in reality the giant Euro based conglomerates see military reshaping and the implementation of the EU army as a way to maintain stability in their global interests. This is now one of the EU’s big cards. The Common European Defence Policy will further dissolve the sovereignty and democracy of nations. Not something my next-door neighbour voted for.

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  • davemclaren changed the title to Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

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