Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )

[WorldChampions1902]

[ri Alban]

Brexit isn't the problem. Boris and his fellow wankstains are. 

[Malinga the Swinga]

11 hours ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

And some posters on here are enjoying every single second of the misery it is causing. Them feeling smug is most important thing.

[Malinga the Swinga]

12 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

Erm. I was responding to a post that referred to " the wake of  WW2."

 

Yep, your reply was fine. When you get the stupid emoji as response, you know the point is proven.

[Beni]

46 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

Yep, your reply was fine. When you get the stupid emoji as response, you know the point is proven.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2021 by Beni
Seen what you've been up to on the Walter Smith thread, I'll leave you to it.

[WorldChampions1902]

47 minutes ago, Malinga the Swinga said:

And some posters on here are enjoying every single second of the misery it is causing. Them feeling smug is most important thing.

“Them feeling smug is the most important thing” as you say, is NOT the most important thing as far as I am concerned. The most important thing is that Leavers face up to what they have inflicted on the rest of us. They acknowledge that the experts were right all along. That the government’s own Yellowhammer Report was not scaremongering but an accurate prediction based on hard facts and data. That the pro-Brexit arguments were mostly lies and BS. That Sunny Uplands were never going to be delivered. That unicorns don’t exist. And so much more.

 

Once the architects (I.e Leavers) reach the inevitable conclusion that Brexit is and always will be, a very negative thing, we can start to repair the damage. Unfortunately, still far too many choose to bury their head in the sand. In the meantime, I will continue to say, “I told you so”. Not through “smugness” as you suggest, but to remind people of what they have done with a view to getting them to shift their mindset.
 

Unfortunately, stubbornness and stupidity will mean that many will never accept they got it wrong. But many more will eventually concede IMHO.

 

[Francis Albert]

20 hours ago, Beni said:

 

That's true, and helps make my point that food production is strategically important, so it makes sense to be prepared to feed the nation when the next black swan event comes along.

There's a quote from a famous Russian - Vladimir something or other - that any society is only ever three meals away from chaos.

 

I was wrongly accused (not by you) of taking the debate back to WW2. I didn't. You did. Now with the Vladimir Lenin quote you have taken it back to the Russian Revolution or maybe earlier.

At this rate we will be back at the '45. Which would at least be relevant to people with the desire to escape a Union.

 

Anyway thanks for on the whole conducting the debate in words and sentences. and even your own words and sentences, rather than copying and pasting emojis and trite propaganda,

[Unknown user]

4 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

I was wrongly accused (not by you) of taking the debate back to WW2. I didn't. You did. Now with the Vladimir Lenin quote you have taken it back to the Russian Revolution or maybe earlier.

At this rate we will be back at the '45. Which would at least be relevant to people with the desire to escape a Union.

 

Anyway thanks for on the whole conducting the debate in words and sentences. and even your own words and sentences, rather than copying and pasting emojis and trite propaganda,

 

Brexit's going well eh?

[Francis Albert]

12 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

Brexit's going well eh?

Too early to say. Personally Covid so far has had far more impact than Brexit.

[The Mighty Thor]

Aye we're all feeling smug.

 

Removal of my freedom of movement across 27 countries that I'd had all my life had me like this 

 

 

Blue passports though 👍

[Francis Albert]

5 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Aye we're all feeling smug.

 

Removal of my freedom of movement across 27 countries that I'd had all my life had me like this 

 

 

Blue passports though 👍

You are 14 years old or younger?

[NANOJAMBO]

5 hours ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

“Them feeling smug is the most important thing” as you say, is NOT the most important thing as far as I am concerned. The most important thing is that Leavers face up to what they have inflicted on the rest of us. They acknowledge that the experts were right all along. That the government’s own Yellowhammer Report was not scaremongering but an accurate prediction based on hard facts and data. That the pro-Brexit arguments were mostly lies and BS. That Sunny Uplands were never going to be delivered. That unicorns don’t exist. And so much more.

 

Once the architects (I.e Leavers) reach the inevitable conclusion that Brexit is and always will be, a very negative thing, we can start to repair the damage. Unfortunately, still far too many choose to bury their head in the sand. In the meantime, I will continue to say, “I told you so”. Not through “smugness” as you suggest, but to remind people of what they have done with a view to getting them to shift their mindset.
 

Unfortunately, stubbornness and stupidity will mean that many will never accept they got it wrong. But many more will eventually concede IMHO.

 

Good luck with that. What I'm seeing more & more these days is leavers saying they simply voted to leave, that they never voted for "this brexit" without ever actually saying what their vision of brexit  is/was , assuning  they ever had a vision at all beyond kicking out foreigners that were knicking jobs, taking up precious housing and clogging up our schools & hospitals. 

[WorldChampions1902]

They promised we would “take back control” of our borders. Instead, we have lost control of our coastline.

 

Brexit - the gift that keeps on taking.

 

 

 

[NANOJAMBO]

https://www.cardiff.ac.uk/news/view/2580015-video-brexit-and-the-island-of-ireland

 

There's a link to a 70 minute YT clip from an Irish expert on brexit looking at the UK/Irleand/GFA issues

What is very interesting IMO, is that Ireland understood from the outset the risks brexit posed (and still poses) the pressure  it would be exposed to and that they'd be under pressure from the UK to quit the EU (hence all the tweets suggesting Ireland do just that) due to UKs inherently weak negotiating position.

Also interesting that Ireland/EU had

Johnson 's number of from the start : he didn't have a clue about the border issues , his cabinet didn't have a clue and neither did his civil servants. And before him, Theresa May asking  Donald Tusk why the EU was favouring Ireland over a much bigger country/ally  (the UK) - "because they're a member state". 

[Roxy Hearts]

11 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

https://www.cardiff.ac.uk/news/view/2580015-video-brexit-and-the-island-of-ireland

 

There's a link to a 70 minute YT clip from an Irish expert on brexit looking at the UK/Irleand/GFA issues

What is very interesting IMO, is that Ireland understood from the outset the risks brexit posed (and still poses) the pressure  it would be exposed to and that they'd be under pressure from the UK to quit the EU (hence all the tweets suggesting Ireland do just that) due to UKs inherently weak negotiating position.

Also interesting that Ireland/EU had

Johnson 's number of from the start : he didn't have a clue about the border issues , his cabinet didn't have a clue and neither did his civil servants. And before him, Theresa May asking  Donald Tusk why the EU was favouring Ireland over a much bigger country/ally  (the UK) - "because they're a member state". 

This rancid UK government is the thickest, parochial, profligate and any other disparaging word you can think of.

 

I've lived under Thatcher, who destroyed GB unity for me, and this mob is as isolating and wicked as her governments.

[WorldChampions1902]

7 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

This rancid UK government is the thickest, parochial, profligate and any other disparaging word you can think of.

 

I've lived under Thatcher, who destroyed GB unity for me, and this mob is as isolating and wicked as her governments.

I had absolutely NO time for Thatcher, but she recognised the value of our EU membership.

 

[NANOJAMBO]

25 minutes ago, Roxy Hearts said:

This rancid UK government is the thickest, parochial, profligate and any other disparaging word you can think of.

 

I've lived under Thatcher, who destroyed GB unity for me, and this mob is as isolating and wicked as her governments.

Likwise. I'm currently reading a long article by Kim Darroch who resigned as UK ambassador to the US as he was fed up being instructed to lie to US businesses which had a large presence in UK/NI about the damaging effect of brexit. He made the point that Thatcher largely trusted her civil servants to get on with their jobs but this is not the case with Johnsons brexit cult who were constantly instructing him on what to say even though he knew the EU/Ireland had already briefed US (especially the US Irish lobby) on what the reality of the situation was. 

In many ways , Johnson is worse because there is such a lack of trust internationally in Johnson : he's seen as a guy who will say/do anything to get out of a sticky situation and a man who'd have no qualms about refusing to implement what he'd promised (which is exactly what he did with the EU and then the DUP). 

[Alex Kintner]

36 minutes ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Likwise. I'm currently reading a long article by Kim Darroch who resigned as UK ambassador to the US as he was fed up being instructed to lie to US businesses which had a large presence in UK/NI about the damaging effect of brexit. He made the point that Thatcher largely trusted her civil servants to get on with their jobs but this is not the case with Johnsons brexit cult who were constantly instructing him on what to say even though he knew the EU/Ireland had already briefed US (especially the US Irish lobby) on what the reality of the situation was. 

In many ways , Johnson is worse because there is such a lack of trust internationally in Johnson : he's seen as a guy who will say/do anything to get out of a sticky situation and a man who'd have no qualms about refusing to implement what he'd promised (which is exactly what he did with the EU and then the DUP). 

I’ve just read something almost identical by Alexandra Hall who resigned her post as Brexit counsellor to the US for similar reasons:

 

 

[Francis Albert]

2 hours ago, NANOJAMBO said:

Likwise. I'm currently reading a long article by Kim Darroch who resigned as UK ambassador to the US as he was fed up being instructed to lie to US businesses which had a large presence in UK/NI about the damaging effect of brexit. He made the point that Thatcher largely trusted her civil servants to get on with their jobs but this is not the case with Johnsons brexit cult who were constantly instructing him on what to say even though he knew the EU/Ireland had already briefed US (especially the US Irish lobby) on what the reality of the situation was. 

In many ways , Johnson is worse because there is such a lack of trust internationally in Johnson : he's seen as a guy who will say/do anything to get out of a sticky situation and a man who'd have no qualms about refusing to implement what he'd promised (which is exactly what he did with the EU and then the DUP). 

Must have been a tough gig for the EU and  Ireland lobbying the US Irish lobby against the UK.

Interesting insight into how the UK Washington embassy viewed it's role. Imagine the UK government giving instructions that conflicted with or reflected different views from the EU/Ireland positions! An outrage.

 

[Norm]

On 25/10/2021 at 21:17, The Mighty Thor said:

Sunlit uplands?

 

Mmmmmm yes please.

 

And what's this? No more pesky EU food protections? 

 

 

Lovely. Will go just great with the chlorinated chicken when Truss gets the trade deal that's in the bag with the US 👍

I'll stick my neck out here and say this is a good thing. I'm all for GM foods. 

[Ulysses]

6 minutes ago, Norm said:

I'll stick both my necks out here and say this is a good thing. I eat GM foods all the time. 

 

Fixed that for you. 

[leginten]

3 hours ago, Alex Kintner said:

I’ve just read something almost identical by Alexandra Hall who resigned her post as Brexit counsellor to the US for similar reasons:

 

 

A very long read, but a good one. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

16 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Aye we're all feeling smug.

 

Removal of my freedom of movement across 27 countries that I'd had all my life had me like this 

 

 

Blue passports though 👍

I got a new passport in December. Its black. 

[WorldChampions1902]

“Get Brexit Dung” or “”Faecal Britain”. Time to revisit those Tory slogans.

 

[Unknown user]

15 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

“Get Brexit Dung” or “”Faecal Britain”. Time to revisit those Tory slogans.

 

 

Bit posh, we'll all be on that school tracing paper stuff from the 80s soon

[The Mighty Thor]

23 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

“Get Brexit Dung” or “”Faecal Britain”. Time to revisit those Tory slogans.

 

My favourite the other day was 'The Turd Reich' 😂

[Bindy Badgy]

14 hours ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

I had absolutely NO time for Thatcher, but she recognised the value of our EU membership.

 

 

She was also one of the first world leaders to recognise the impact of climate change. She was an evil cow but, if we're going to criticise her we also need to point out the things she got right.

[Don Dan]

Poland being fined a €1m a day for not following Brussels rules. 
 

Poland stokes fears of leaving EU in 'Polexit' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-58840076

 

The unprecedented challenge made by Poland's prime minister, Mateusz Morawiecki, to one of the European Union's core legal principles has seriously escalated his government's dispute with Brussels. And it has fuelled concerns that Poland is heading towards the door, described as "Polexit".

[Cade]

Poland are going nowhere.

 

There is absolutely no public support for leaving the EU.

[Francis Albert]

There is negligible support for Poland leaving the EU. But there has been a dispute also between the EU and Germany since June when the German Supreme Court rejected the EU Court of Justice as the ultimate Court for matters of conflict on EU law and itself by determining that the German Court was sovereign. So a the least there is an issue.

[WorldChampions1902]

1 hour ago, Boy Daniel said:

Poland being fined a €1m a day for not following Brussels rules. 
 

Poland stokes fears of leaving EU in 'Polexit' https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-58840076

 

The unprecedented challenge made by Poland's prime minister, Mateusz Morawiecki, to one of the European Union's core legal principles has seriously escalated his government's dispute with Brussels. And it has fuelled concerns that Poland is heading towards the door, described as "Polexit".

 

47 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

There is negligible support for Poland leaving the EU. But there has been a dispute also between the EU and Germany since June when the German Supreme Court rejected the EU Court of Justice as the ultimate Court for matters of conflict on EU law and itself by determining that the German Court was sovereign. So a the least there is an issue.

So, Poland and Germany are unhappy at aspects of how the EU operates - as are other EU members. Indeed, the U.K. has been bickering about numerous EU ‘grievances’ almost since being admitted. The difference of course is that all those countries remain EU members thus enabling them to air their grievances and influence change, like responsible adults.

 

The U.K. on the other hand…………..

[WorldChampions1902]

5 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

My favourite the other day was 'The Turd Reich' 😂

[Japan Jambo]

On 26/10/2021 at 16:11, The Mighty Thor said:

Aye we're all feeling smug.

 

Removal of my freedom of movement across 27 countries that I'd had all my life had me like this 

 

 

Blue passports though 👍

 

Overdoing the pain a tad - Just back from a European drive and I have to say that Eurotunnel aside (where nothing has effectively changed save they now stamp the passport rather than shrug Gallicly at them) the biggest issue I faced passport wise in France, Italy and Switzerland was having to show my COVID app continuously.

[Japan Jambo]

Just now, Japan Jambo said:

 

Overdoing the pain a tad - Just back from a European drive and I have to say that Eurotunnel aside (where nothing has effectively changed save they now stamp the passport rather than shrug Gallicly at them) the biggest issue I faced passport wise in France, Italy and Switzerland was having to show my COVID app continuously. No passport checks driving into Italy or Switzerland.

 

[Francis Albert]

18 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

 

So, Poland and Germany are unhappy at aspects of how the EU operates - as are other EU members. Indeed, the U.K. has been bickering about numerous EU ‘grievances’ almost since being admitted. The difference of course is that all those countries remain EU members thus enabling them to air their grievances and influence change, like responsible adults.

 

The U.K. on the other hand…………..

Is bickering about grievances different from airing grievances and influencing (or trying to influence)change? Sound much the same to me. Of course the UK did try to influence change  for over 40 years after it joined. But the progress toward ever closer union has been unstoppable. And continues.

 

[Unknown user]

36 minutes ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Overdoing the pain a tad - Just back from a European drive and I have to say that Eurotunnel aside (where nothing has effectively changed save they now stamp the passport rather than shrug Gallicly at them) the biggest issue I faced passport wise in France, Italy and Switzerland was having to show my COVID app continuously.

 

10 years I lived in Holland, I no longer have that automatic right. It's a big loss.

[SE16 3LN]

French threatening to strangle UK exports with red tape and cut electricity supplies over Brexit Fishing protocols. 

 

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-france-prepares-sanctions-which-could-affect-uk-power-supplies-over-fishing-dispute-12446018

 

 

[Don Dan]

4 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

French threatening to strangle UK exports with red tape and cut electricity supplies over Brexit Fishing protocols. 

 

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-france-prepares-sanctions-which-could-affect-uk-power-supplies-over-fishing-dispute-12446018

 

 

 As far as electricity supply goes we need to be self sufficient ASAP we can’t be held to ransom by other countries especially where it’s a commercial contract. 

[Francis Albert]

5 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

10 years I lived in Holland, I no longer have that automatic right. It's a big loss.

Have you tried since Brexit? It may not be automatic but how difficult is it?

People from the UK went to live and work  all over Europe before we joined the EU and indeed before the EU existed. As they do and have done all over the world. I understand a small minority of the UK population may be inconvenienced or sometimes worse by loss of "freedom of movement" but how high a place should it stand in the decision to remain or rejoin the EU? 

[The Mighty Thor]

6 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Have you tried since Brexit? It may not be automatic but how difficult is it?

People from the UK went to live and work  all over Europe before we joined the EU and indeed before the EU existed. As they do and have done all over the world. I understand a small minority of the UK population may be inconvenienced or sometimes worse by loss of "freedom of movement" but how high a place should it stand in the decision to remain or rejoin the EU? 

Ask the pensioners in the Costas having to sell their retirement pads to come home as they can no longer stay due to Brexit. 

[The Mighty Thor]

1 hour ago, Japan Jambo said:

 

Overdoing the pain a tad - Just back from a European drive and I have to say that Eurotunnel aside (where nothing has effectively changed save they now stamp the passport rather than shrug Gallicly at them) the biggest issue I faced passport wise in France, Italy and Switzerland was having to show my COVID app continuously.

It boils my piss that I no longer have freedom of movement across the EU just because of the ideology of the Conservative party's lunatic fringe committee groups and the fact that the Little Englanders don't like brown people. 

[Unknown user]

8 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Have you tried since Brexit? It may not be automatic but how difficult is it?

People from the UK went to live and work  all over Europe before we joined the EU and indeed before the EU existed. As they do and have done all over the world. I understand a small minority of the UK population may be inconvenienced or sometimes worse by loss of "freedom of movement" but how high a place should it stand in the decision to remain or rejoin the EU? 

 

I no longer have the automatic right to work in Holland. I get that it doesn't personally affect you but it's a loss of rights. Should they all be met with "Ah well, **** you" so you can keep telling yourself it's not so bad?

[SE16 3LN]

7 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Ask the pensioners in the Costas having to sell their retirement pads to come home as they can no longer stay due to Brexit. 

I know, its shocking. At the same time 350000 Spanish people have been welcomed in the UK through settled status. I guess the Spanish state isn't as soft and fluffy as the UK state. It makes no sense with Spanish Unemployment standing at 14%.

[WorldChampions1902]

30 minutes ago, Boy Daniel said:

 As far as electricity supply goes we need to be self sufficient ASAP we can’t be held to ransom by other countries especially where it’s a commercial contract. 

I totally agree. But it’s too late now. A consequence of another Tory ideology - privatisation. The U.K. has around 40% of its energy needs supplied by companies owned by Spain, Germany, France and Holland. But back on topic, Brexit is Bollocks. Discuss…….

[Francis Albert]

9 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

I no longer have the automatic right to work in Holland. I get that it doesn't personally affect you but it's a loss of rights. Should they all be met with "Ah well, **** you" so you can keep telling yourself it's not so bad?

When did I say "Ah well **** you?"

You didn't answer my last question so I don't expect an answer to that.

I believe immigration from outside to the EU has exceeded that from the EU. So unless the UK has been more open than the rest of the EU (surely not?) It should still be possible for non-EU citizens like us to move to the EU.

[WorldChampions1902]

2 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

I know, its shocking. At the same time 350000 Spanish people have been welcomed in the UK through settled status. I guess the Spanish state isn't as soft and fluffy as the UK state. It makes no sense with Spanish Unemployment standing at 14%.

You are missing an important point. The Brits in Spain are, “ex-Pats” and the Spanish people in the U.K. are immigrants (aka  Johnny Foreigner).

[Francis Albert]

3 minutes ago, SE16 3LN said:

I know, its shocking. At the same time 350000 Spanish people have been welcomed in the UK through settled status. I guess the Spanish state isn't as soft and fluffy as the UK state. It makes no sense with Spanish Unemployment standing at 14%.

The UK offered and gave settled status to 6 million EU citizens living in the UK. About 3 million more than we know we're living here. 

[Francis Albert]

1 minute ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

You are missing an important point. The Brits in Spain are, “ex-Pats” and the Spanish people in the U.K. are immigrants (aka  Johnny Foreigner).

And the UK has granted permanent resident status to the Johnny Foreigners. What exactly is your point?

[WorldChampions1902]

Just now, Francis Albert said:

And the UK has granted permanent resident status to the Johnny Foreigners. What exactly is your point?

The term, “ex-pat” is used to distance those Costas Brits et al from the fact that they are actually immigrants. “Immigrants” has so many negative connotations (in their heads), so they re-branded the term. Yet another example of English exceptionalism. Brexit was and remains overflowing with such exceptionalism.

[SE16 3LN]

19 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

You are missing an important point. The Brits in Spain are, “ex-Pats” and the Spanish people in the U.K. are immigrants (aka  Johnny Foreigner).

No the Brits in Spain are getting kicked out and the Spanish in the UK are UK residents who are welcome. Have you missed the point of the debate?