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Brexit Deal agreed ( updated )


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jack D and coke
10 minutes ago, Boab said:

The more “ outlandish “ the claim, the bigger the derision.

There is a huge mafia trial going on right now in Sicily and some of the charges are fraud, racketeering and political corruption.

Basically, the ‘Ndrangheta were re-directing funds from huge contracts and giving it to their friends.

Ringing any bells ?

Aye there’s not a lot between them  

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20 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

 

Hannan is a bare faced liar (as Brexit demonstrated) and it's a pity Maitlis didn't call him out here and ask him who he'd actually been speaking to & when. 

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Joey J J Jr Shabadoo
35 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

"The United States has no closer or more reliable ally than Australia."

 

- President Biden, 21 September 2021

:lol:

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Joey J J Jr Shabadoo
26 minutes ago, Ulysses said:

 

Nope.  That's a bad idea, and it's not going to happen.  The people voted to leave.  There are some teething problems, and it will take time to adjust, but if the British government stops panicking and takes some time to let the trade agreement settle down that adjustment will happen naturally.  The EU and UK will trade less with each other, but that's a natural consequence of the UK's desire to have a more distant relationship with the EU.

According to Rees-Mogg it will be 50 years.

I'll be long dead.

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Howdy Doody Jambo
3 hours ago, Boy Daniel said:

There is a (relatively) simple fix for all our trade and Irish border troubles and that is rejoin the EU. I wonder which politician has the guts to suggest that. Rejoin and all the problems disappear immediately.

Not as simple as that despite the US being the EU’s largest trading partner, there is no dedicated free trade agreement between the EU and the US. The Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) negotiations were launched in 2013, but ended without conclusion at the end of 2016. They were formally closed in 2019

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25 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

I can’t believe that the Times today, leads with this comment. What is the world coming to?

 

14691D07-0AEA-47A6-B58A-F303F6E97D5B.jpeg

And poor Jeremy Corbyn was totally maligned ! Him and this guy either side of the Atlantic would have been great ! 

99792F16-081E-489F-835F-BCF712E2BE03.jpeg

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No need to fully re-join the EU as a political entity to resolve most of the issues that are beginning to manifest themselves.

 

Just the Common Market.

 

Then the Irish border goes back to not existing, trade barriers come back, down, red tape is cut and we go back to normal.

 

No other nation in the whole of modern history has ever left a free trading bloc.

Nobody else has been stupid enough.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

:lol:

 

I only hope the Australians aren't daft enough to believe him. :laugh:

 

 

2 hours ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

According to Rees-Mogg it will be 50 years.

I'll be long dead.

 

Even then, it's unlikely we'll all get back to where we were before Brexit.  But that's what a majority of the British people voted for.  On the other hand, I think a lot of the friction and hassle for businesses should get sorted out as they get used to the paperwork and procedures and adapt to them.  It's inevitably going to be at its most difficult in this period immediately after the UK's third-country status comes into effect.

 

It affects people on both sides of the UK-EU customs boundary.  Someone did a job on my house today.  He was telling me that he sourced all his equipment from a supplier in the UK.  He wanted to order a machine to replace one that's on the way out, but when he checked with our version of HMRC he was told that he would incur over €10K in customs charges.  Instead, he's getting the same machine sent from the Netherlands.  The UK supplier loses the sale, but the Irish buyer loses out as well because the Dutch supplier is charging him a couple of grand more than the UK supplier's price.

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5 minutes ago, Cade said:

No need to fully re-join the EU as a political entity to resolve most of the issues that are beginning to manifest themselves.

 

Just the Common Market.

 

Then the Irish border goes back to not existing, trade barriers come back, down, red tape is cut and we go back to normal.

 

No other nation in the whole of modern history has ever left a free trading bloc.

Nobody else has been stupid enough.

 

 

 

I know what you're saying, but the price of joining the market is acceptance of EU standards and regulations,  The UK has already debated doing this and has rejected it.

 

Despite the nonsense being spouted, the reality is that the NI Protocol is generally working well.  There are some glitches, but in the opinion of the EU these are mainly caused by the failure of the UK side to put in place systems and procedures to operate the Protocol.   The solution is to run the Protocol as it's meant to be run and re-visit it in 3-4 years time as the Protocol itself provides for doing.

 

The rest is out of our hands, I'm afraid.

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The people of Northern Ireland from the mainly protestant community are feeling abandoned by the UK government and with the population in the north moving towards a 50/50 split fear what might happen if a referendum is called.

 

They have been lied to as have we all by the UK government who made all these promises that it was all fixed and arrangements were in place when on the ground is just a blatant lie.

Of course nothing is perfect but until Brexit there was a steady improvement in the lives of the people and a lessening of violence with a recognition that rights exist for all communities and not just some.

 

The protestant community wants to feel it belongs within the UK and that feeling is lessening as time goes on with. lets face it, many of the people of Great Britain not really caring what happens 'elsewhere' as they see it.

100 years on many would argue little has changed but a solution needs to be found before we see a return to the 70's and 80's.

The price that Brexiteers did not factor in could be a heavy one and some of the issues are simply down to UK and EU pride with little acceptance that now and then there will need to be exceptions in order to avoid a far larger problem to come.

It may not always be  the reality but the perception counts in this case and once that becomes 'fact' in the ordinary person it will be hard to shift and whilst at some point in the future the population will change to a majority wanting a united Ireland the price would be horrendous if you are not to carry the middle ground with you..............

 

'The Northern Ireland Protocol helps prevent checks along the land border between Northern Ireland (in the UK) and the Republic of Ireland (in the EU).

During Brexit negotiations, all sides agreed that protecting the 1998 Northern Ireland peace deal (the Good Friday agreement) was an absolute priority.

Part of that meant keeping the land border open and avoiding new infrastructure such as cameras and border posts.'

 

However, a new arrangement was needed after Brexit.

The EU requires many goods - such as milk and eggs - to be inspected when they arrive from non-EU countries, while some products, such as chilled meats, aren't allowed to enter at all.

Under the protocol it was agreed that Northern Ireland would continue to follow EU rules on product standards (part of the EU's single market rules) to prevent checks along the border. Checks would instead take place on goods entering Northern Ireland from England, Scotland or Wales.

Inspections take place at Northern Ireland ports, and customs documents have to be filled in.

This has prompted criticism that a new border has effectively been created in the Irish Sea.

The agreement came into force on 1 January 2021 and is now part of international law.

Despite signing up to the agreement, Boris Johnson says the protocol represented a huge compromise by the UK and has accused the EU of applying it too rigidly.

The UK government now wants to get rid of most of the checks, and reduce customs procedures, in order to allow goods to flow more freely.

It also wants to remove the role the European Commission and the European Court of Justice have in overseeing how the protocol works.

And it is calling for for the EU to freeze legal action while negotiations are held.

The EU has been critical of the UK's stance and says "both sides are legally bound to fulfil their obligations under the Agreement".

It says it is ready to continue searching for "creative solutions", but it will not agree to a renegotiation.

Unionists are strongly opposed to the checks because they don't want Northern Ireland to be treated differently to the rest of the UK.

There have also been a series of demonstrations and protests against any kind of border in the Irish Sea.

Edited by CJGJ
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6 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

Despite signing up to the agreement, Boris Johnson says the protocol represented a huge compromise by the UK and has accused the EU of applying it too rigidly.

 

The EU hasn't applied anything rigidly.  The problem is that the British said they would put procedures and systems in place to reduce or remove friction in trade, and they haven't.  The EU wants the British to do what they said they would do.  If the British regard that as too rigid then they are charlatans and not to be trusted.

 

6 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

 

The UK government now wants to get rid of most of the checks, and reduce customs procedures, in order to allow goods to flow more freely.

 

 

That's what the UK government wanted for all of its trade frontier with the EU.  But they can't have it, because you cannot have a customs frontier without checks.  Everyone knows that - it is a fundamental principle of taking control of your borders.

 

6 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

It also wants to remove the role the European Commission and the European Court of Justice have in overseeing how the protocol works.

And it is calling for for the EU to freeze legal action while negotiations are held.

 

The British government didn't want those in the first place, and they can't explain what the problem is because nothing has yet happened to require the intervention of the ECJ.  The EC has to oversee how the Protocol works, because they are the body in the EU with responsibility for overseeing trade and customs frontier issues.  This is just another example of untrustworthiness and unreliability on the part of the British government.

 

6 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

Unionists are strongly opposed to the checks because they don't want Northern Ireland to be treated differently to the rest of the UK.

 

Some unionists are opposed to the checks.  Many are indifferent to them, or see them as a good thing.  Many Ulster Unionist members of the business community in the North do business in the South and see the Protocol as an expansion opportunity.  The DUP's Jeffrey Donaldson was cheerleading for the Protocol a little over a year ago - but now he's complaining.  Why?  Because his party is crashing in the opinion polls.

 

In any case, there are only checks on goods going from GB to NI, and if the UK government did what it said it would do and put the relevant procedures and systems in place to reduce the extent of checks, this would reduce or even eliminate their annoyance value.

 

6 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

There have also been a series of demonstrations and protests against any kind of border in the Irish Sea.

 

There have been a few instances of anti-social behaviour on the streets, the kind of stuff regularly seen in summer time in and around the rougher zones of Belfast, but the numbers involved were limited.  A formal protest was organised recently when Maroš Šefčovič was speaking about the Protocol at Queen's University.  25 people showed up.

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Meanwhile 

Europe’s energy ministers have discussed an ambitious plan to buy strategic gas reserves as a bloc in an effort to counter Russian efforts to cut supply and hike prices.

The European Union meeting today was meant to focus on climate change but has been overshadowed by gas shortages and subsequent price spikes that threaten an energy crisis this winter. A key factor in the crisis is a decrease in the volume of natural gas exports from Russia to northern Europe after a fall in storage capacity due to last year’s long winter.

Spain is leading calls for the EU to use the combined purchasing power of its 27 countries to buy up gas reserves that would allow it to effectively set a ceiling for prices, to protect government and consumers. 
 

The buying  power of 27 over the buying power of 1 now lonely country. 
 

https://apple.news/AtryRqYrTThGFoevGEwRh4w

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It's the 1970s!

 

Open and rampant racism, police brutality, power shortages, fuel shortages, rising inflation, the whole shebang.

 

When the Tories said they wanted to go back to how things were before we joined the EU in 1975, I didn't think they meant this.

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The Real Maroonblood
3 minutes ago, Cade said:

It's the 1970s!

 

Open and rampant racism, police brutality, power shortages, fuel shortages, rising inflation, the whole shebang.

 

When the Tories said they wanted to go back to how things were before we joined the EU in 1975, I didn't think they meant this.

The land of hope and glory.😭

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Nucky Thompson
2 hours ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

 

56 minutes ago, Cade said:

It's the 1970s!

 

Open and rampant racism, police brutality, power shortages, fuel shortages, rising inflation, the whole shebang.

 

When the Tories said they wanted to go back to how things were before we joined the EU in 1975, I didn't think they meant this.

:rofl::rofl:

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The Mighty Thor
5 hours ago, Cade said:

It's the 1970s!

 

Open and rampant racism, police brutality, power shortages, fuel shortages, rising inflation, the whole shebang.

 

When the Tories said they wanted to go back to how things were before we joined the EU in 1975, I didn't think they meant this.

If course it is.

 

It's only going to get worse too. Why?

Because there's dollar to be made. 

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On 22/09/2021 at 13:43, Ulysses said:

 

Nope.  That's a bad idea, and it's not going to happen.  The people voted to leave.  There are some teething problems, and it will take time to adjust, but if the British government stops panicking and takes some time to let the trade agreement settle down that adjustment will happen naturally.  The EU and UK will trade less with each other, but that's a natural consequence of the UK's desire to have a more distant relationship with the EU.

 

On 22/09/2021 at 17:53, Ulysses said:

 

 

The EU hasn't applied anything rigidly.  The problem is that the British said they would put procedures and systems in place to reduce or remove friction in trade, and they haven't.  The EU wants the British to do what they said they would do.  If the British regard that as too rigid then they are charlatans and not to be trusted.

 

 

That's what the UK government wanted for all of its trade frontier with the EU.  But they can't have it, because you cannot have a customs frontier without checks.  Everyone knows that - it is a fundamental principle of taking control of your borders.

 

 

The British government didn't want those in the first place, and they can't explain what the problem is because nothing has yet happened to require the intervention of the ECJ.  The EC has to oversee how the Protocol works, because they are the body in the EU with responsibility for overseeing trade and customs frontier issues.  This is just another example of untrustworthiness and unreliability on the part of the British government.

 

 

Some unionists are opposed to the checks.  Many are indifferent to them, or see them as a good thing.  Many Ulster Unionist members of the business community in the North do business in the South and see the Protocol as an expansion opportunity.  The DUP's Jeffrey Donaldson was cheerleading for the Protocol a little over a year ago - but now he's complaining.  Why?  Because his party is crashing in the opinion polls.

 

In any case, there are only checks on goods going from GB to NI, and if the UK government did what it said it would do and put the relevant procedures and systems in place to reduce the extent of checks, this would reduce or even eliminate their annoyance value.

 

 

There have been a few instances of anti-social behaviour on the streets, the kind of stuff regularly seen in summer time in and around the rougher zones of Belfast, but the numbers involved were limited.  A formal protest was organised recently when Maroš Šefčovič was speaking about the Protocol at Queen's University.  25 people showed up.

Reasoned posts at last on this thread.I get people arent happy but theres some stretching being posted .

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Absolute kiss of death for the petrol station forecourts.

 

"There is absolutely no need to queue at petrol stations and panic buy/fill up your car and spare fuel cans"

 

That can only mean that tomorrow will see huge queues at every fuel station in the land with people filling up as many cans and cars as they can.
"I'm just going to nip out and fill up in case people start panic buying" :vrface:

 

WHY do the people in charge KEEP falling into the trap of telling people not to panic buy, it only makes things worse, like a self fulfilling prophecy.

Clueless.

Edited by Cade
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The Mighty Thor
7 hours ago, Cade said:

Absolute kiss of death for the petrol station forecourts.

 

"There is absolutely no need to queue at petrol stations and panic buy/fill up your car and spare fuel cans"

 

That can only mean that tomorrow will see huge queues at every fuel station in the land with people filling up as many cans and cars as they can.
"I'm just going to nip out and fill up in case people start panic buying" :vrface:

 

WHY do the people in charge KEEP falling into the trap of telling people not to panic buy, it only makes things worse, like a self fulfilling prophecy.

Clueless.

The rule of thumb is if Johnson's government says there's no problem then there's a huge ****ing problem. 

 

World's 5th largest economy 😂

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It turns out membership of the EU was the best thing to happen to the UK.

The UK doesn't have any more argument against Scottish independence. We're fecked because of the Union(and always have been), not independence. Brexit and Boris are the best thing to happen, ever. Roll on the winter. They'll be riots on the streets.

 

Nae power, nae gas, nae petrol,

Me "Aye but ,I thought we produced plenty"

 

Overlord/Keepers " No, Engl... I mean the UK needs it, now feck up Scotland and do as your told, give us your stuff and feck up. We'll decide what you get, Right!"

 

 

Me 🖕

 

 

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1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

It turns out membership of the EU was the best thing to happen to the UK.

The UK doesn't have any more argument against Scottish independence. We're fecked because of the Union(and always have been), not independence. Brexit and Boris are the best thing to happen, ever. Roll on the winter. They'll be riots on the streets.

 

Nae power, nae gas, nae petrol,

Me "Aye but ,I thought we produced plenty"

 

Overlord/Keepers " No, Engl... I mean the UK needs it, now feck up Scotland and do as your told, give us your stuff and feck up. We'll decide what you get, Right!"

 

 

Me 🖕

 

 

 

Agreed. 

 

What an absolute farce the UK government are overseeing.

 

Support for independence must be c.75% or something by now?!? Brexit, Boris have given an open goal. Just needs tapped home. 

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WorldChampions1902
43 minutes ago, Boab said:

You stupid b******s !

Someone with a frontal lobotomy could have seen this coming.

 

 

Intelligent people did predict all of this. In fact, do you remember the governments own Yellowhammer report that outlined many of these predictions? “Project Fear”, came the reply once again.
 

As has already been pointed out on here though, far too many people wanted rid of “Johnny Foreigner” and were quite willing to pay the price. And has been explained previously here too, immigration figures will not drop in any meaningful way, in fact they are increasing.

 

 

CC922917-DCD1-427A-8209-07EACB22D47F.jpeg

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100,000 deficit of HGV drivers and the road haulage people ask the transport secretary to relax visa rules for foreign drivers.  Alas Mr Shapps says he doesn't want UK drivers to be forced out by being undercut by cheaper EU labour.

 

:vrface:

 

World beating.

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I read today that there is no HGV driver shortage, it's just that 50% of them don't work in the industry, anyone know whether that's true?

 

If it is, is it really the government's problem to sort? Surely the companies who employ them need to make it a more attractive proposition.

 

The government obviously aren't helping either.

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Салатные палочки
9 hours ago, Cade said:

Absolute kiss of death for the petrol station forecourts.

 

"There is absolutely no need to queue at petrol stations and panic buy/fill up your car and spare fuel cans"

 

That can only mean that tomorrow will see huge queues at every fuel station in the land with people filling up as many cans and cars as they can.
"I'm just going to nip out and fill up in case people start panic buying" :vrface:

 

WHY do the people in charge KEEP falling into the trap of telling people not to panic buy, it only makes things worse, like a self fulfilling prophecy.

Clueless.

 

It's already started. Not the best picture but every fuel pump in use this morning with queues behind them. This was at 8.20am. 

 

IMG-20210924-WA0000.thumb.jpg.30848e0c366c4bb934f8e9ae004f483f.jpg

 

I have 1/4 of a tank left. That will keep me going until the arseholes move onto panicking about something else. Christmas tree shortages or whatever. 

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24 minutes ago, Salad Fingers said:

Christmas tree shortages or whatever. 

 

 

Not the trees!!!!

 

I'd better nash out and get mine now before arseholes start panic buying.

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50 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

Intelligent people did predict all of this. In fact, do you remember the governments own Yellowhammer report that outlined many of these predictions? “Project Fear”, came the reply once again.
 

As has already been pointed out on here though, far too many people wanted rid of “Johnny Foreigner” and were quite willing to pay the price. And has been explained previously here too, immigration figures will not drop in any meaningful way, in fact they are increasing.

 

 

CC922917-DCD1-427A-8209-07EACB22D47F.jpeg

Of course.

I suppose we should never underestimate the stupidity of the British public. 
 

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WorldChampions1902
1 hour ago, Taffin said:

I read today that there is no HGV driver shortage, it's just that 50% of them don't work in the industry, anyone know whether that's true?

 

If it is, is it really the government's problem to sort? Surely the companies who employ them need to make it a more attractive proposition.

 

The government obviously aren't helping either.

On BBC Question Time last night, the CEO of Iceland Frozen foods chain said that the U.K. is 100,000 HGV drivers short and that despite massively improving pay and conditions for his own drivers, Iceland were 100 drivers short. Grant Shapps was forced to admit that whatever BS initiatives from government were in play now, it isn’t going to alleviate the problems in time for Christmas.

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9 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

On BBC Question Time last night, the CEO of Iceland Frozen foods chain said that the U.K. is 100,000 HGV drivers short and that despite massively improving pay and conditions for his own drivers, Iceland were 100 drivers short. Grant Shapps was forced to admit that whatever BS initiatives from government were in play now, it isn’t going to alleviate the problems in time for Christmas.

 

Cheers. I managed to find the article I'd read it in on the BBC:

 

Conservative MP Andrew Bridgen said there was "an endemic problem with retention and recruitment" in the industry.

 

"We're actually not short of HGV drivers per se - we've got 600,000 people who are qualified to drive those big trucks, but only 300,000 people chose to work in the industry," he told BBC Newsnight.

 

 

Obviously to be taken with a huge pinch of salt, it hadn't registered it was from a Tory MP when I read it first time through.

 

If, and it's a big if now I've noticed the source, what he's saying is true, I don't think it's unfair to ask why only 50% of those with licenses choose to actually work in that field. Equally it could be that they've since retired but still hold their license etc, the same article states that the avg age of an HGV driver is 55...which is insane.

 

Edited by Taffin
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1 hour ago, Taffin said:

I read today that there is no HGV driver shortage, it's just that 50% of them don't work in the industry, anyone know whether that's true?

 

If it is, is it really the government's problem to sort? Surely the companies who employ them need to make it a more attractive proposition.

 

The government obviously aren't helping either.

 

Companies are competing for drivers but it's nowhere near enough.  Companies are acutely sensitive to the implications of increasing their cost base as it translates into higher prices to customers which makes companies less competitive.  For the government,  too widespread a range of workers realising higher wages translates into inflation.  The solution is,  always was and remains to inject supply into the labour market.  But this government is profoundly handicapped by their previous dogmatic shitehousery of Brexit.

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15 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Companies are competing for drivers but it's nowhere near enough.  Companies are acutely sensitive to the implications of increasing their cost base as it translates into higher prices to customers which makes companies less competitive.  For the government,  too widespread a range of workers realising higher wages translates into inflation.  The solution is,  always was and remains to inject supply into the labour market.  But this government is profoundly handicapped by their previous dogmatic shitehousery of Brexit.

 

The below is based on if Brigden is correct:

 

If you inject more workers into the market, don't you just risk increasing the number of HGV driver not working as an HGV driver as well though? They'll have the same concerns the current 300,000 have. To get the 100k shortage filled, you'd need to find 200k new ones on that split. Half the eligible workforce doing something else suggests a fundamental issue with the job itself.

 

If you flood it with lower paid workers from the EU then it will drag wages down again and then more from the 300k currently working will look to do something else and the circle starts again.

 

Don't get me wrong, Brexit isn't helping and it's making it worse but when the average age of what should be a young man's/woman's game is 55 you know this issue has been a long time in the making.

 

My (limited) experience is a big chunk of the drivers are just waiting for retirement (50+) in the main, there isn't really a new generation coming through, the trucks are a nightmare to keep on the road and the lead time for new vehicles is long. Why graft all day and often night alone for not great money, in poor conditions, in a wagon on horrendous motorway networks with increasingly demanding schedules and expectation? It doesn't seem worth it to me. The sticking plaster was agency drivers who were usually from the EU. This sticking plaster has been removed by Brexit but the fundamental issues existed long before Brexit imo, it's just they are now manifesting themselves.

 

If the consumer wants their next day deliveriee, all their comforts and needs turning up at their door without them so much as leaving their sofa and every unseasonal fruit under the sun at their local supermarket, then maybe they need to recognise the cost of that and shoulder more of it.

Edited by Taffin
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13 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

The below is based on if Brigden is correct:

 

If you inject more workers into the market, don't you just risk increasing the number of HGV driver not working as an HGV driver as well though? They'll have the same concerns the current 300,000 have. To get the 100k shortage filled, you'd need to find 200k new ones on that split. Half the eligible workforce doing something else suggests a fundamental issue with the job itself.

 

If you flood it with lower paid workers from the EU then it will drag wages down again and then more from the 300k currently working will look to do something else and the circle starts again.

 

Don't get me wrong, Brexit isn't helping and it's making it worse but when the average age of what should be a young man's/woman's game is 55 you know this issue has been a long time in the making.

 

My (limited) experience is a big chunk of the drivers are just waiting for retirement (50+) in the main, there isn't really a new generation coming through, the trucks are a nightmare to keep on the road and the lead time for new vehicles is long. Why graft all day and often night alone for not great money, in poor conditions, in a wagon on horrendous motorway networks with increasingly demanding schedules and expectation? It doesn't seem worth it to me. The sticking plaster was agency drivers who were usually from the EU. This sticking plaster has been removed by Brexit but the fundamental issues existed long before Brexit imo, it's just they are now manifesting themselves.

 

If the consumer wants their next day deliveriee, all their comforts and needs turning up at their door without them so much as leaving their sofa and every unseasonal fruit under the sun at their local supermarket, then maybe they need to recognise the cost of that and shoulder more of it.

 

The best way is to have a dynamic,  reactive,  flexible labour market.  Not the isolationist,  dogmatic,  jingoistic shitefest of this particular smell of Brexit that we had.

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1 minute ago, Victorian said:

 

The best way is to have a dynamic,  reactive,  flexible labour market.  Not the isolationist,  dogmatic,  jingoistic shitefest of this particular smell of Brexit that we had.

 

No offence, but that's nothing more than jingoism as well without more meat on the bones.

 

What would that look like in regards HGV drivers? 

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2 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

No offence, but that's nothing more than jingoism as well without more meat on the bones.

 

What would that look like in regards HGV drivers? 

 

Identify particular critical national interest occupations and make it much,  much easier to recruit people and easier for people to access employment.  Drivers,  doctors,  nurses,  care workers,  there will be others.

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12 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

The below is based on if Brigden is correct:

 

If you inject more workers into the market, don't you just risk increasing the number of HGV driver not working as an HGV driver as well though? They'll have the same concerns the current 300,000 have. To get the 100k shortage filled, you'd need to find 200k new ones on that split. Half the eligible workforce doing something else suggests a fundamental issue with the job itself.

 

If you flood it with lower paid workers from the EU then it will drag wages down again and then more from the 300k currently working will look to do something else and the circle starts again.

 

Don't get me wrong, Brexit isn't helping and it's making it worse but when the average age of what should be a young man's/woman's game is 55 you know this issue has been a long time in the making.

 

My (limited) experience is a big chunk of the drivers are just waiting for retirement (50+) in the main, there isn't really a new generation coming through, the trucks are a nightmare to keep on the road and the lead time for new vehicles is long. Why graft all day and often night alone for not great money, in poor conditions, in a wagon on horrendous motorway networks with increasingly demanding schedules and expectation? It doesn't seem worth it to me. The sticking plaster was agency drivers who were usually from the EU. This sticking plaster has been removed by Brexit but the fundamental issues existed long before Brexit imo, it's just they are now manifesting themselves.

 

If the consumer wants their next day deliveriee, all their comforts and needs turning up at their door without them so much as leaving their sofa and every unseasonal fruit under the sun at their local supermarket, then maybe they need to recognise the cost of that and shoulder more of it.

 

From what I've heard on the TV from haulage companies, I'd say that's a pretty fair assessment of some of the problems the industry is facing, and you are correct this isn't new, this has been brewing for years, 20+ quite probably.

 

When I worked in the knitwear industry, a friend who worked alongside me had an HGV licence, now this is going back 15 years and more, we used to keep asking him why he didn't get out the mill and become a lorry driver, he used to drive at the weekends & holidays, sometimes long distance, but he used to always say it was a shit job, long hours, no life, living in a cab, just crap and he no intention of doing that for a living, happy to take on the odd driving job now and again for extra money, but no way doing it full time, especially the long distance stuff.  He used to moan about the lack of drivers back then and that in years to come there was going to a huge problem when the current drivers retired.

 

Nowadays he works for the council, driving council lorries, including the gritters/snow ploughs during the winter, I'm not sure if he does jobs on the side anymore, next time I see him I'll need to ask him.

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11 hours ago, Cade said:

Absolute kiss of death for the petrol station forecourts.

 

"There is absolutely no need to queue at petrol stations and panic buy/fill up your car and spare fuel cans"

 

That can only mean that tomorrow will see huge queues at every fuel station in the land with people filling up as many cans and cars as they can.
"I'm just going to nip out and fill up in case people start panic buying" :vrface:

 

WHY do the people in charge KEEP falling into the trap of telling people not to panic buy, it only makes things worse, like a self fulfilling prophecy.

Clueless.

Exactly . There was an item on the news the other night about Tesco and  they were urging people not to panic buy.  Queue panic buying . It’ll be the same morons last year who stock piled big roll . I have been in supermarkets and saw no empty shelves 

2 hours ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

Intelligent people did predict all of this. In fact, do you remember the governments own Yellowhammer report that outlined many of these predictions? “Project Fear”, came the reply once again.
 

As has already been pointed out on here though, far too many people wanted rid of “Johnny Foreigner” and were quite willing to pay the price. And has been explained previously here too, immigration figures will not drop in any meaningful way, in fact they are increasing.

 

 

CC922917-DCD1-427A-8209-07EACB22D47F.jpeg

Yes it was immigration which was the main motivator for the gammon who voted Brexit . Their faces must be More gammon now with all the refugees coming over every day . Delightful 

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WorldChampions1902
14 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Identify particular critical national interest occupations and make it much,  much easier to recruit people and easier for people to access employment.  Drivers,  doctors,  nurses,  care workers,  there will be others.

The Tories have been in power over 10 years. But they want us to now believe that all of the staff shortages in these sectors you rightly highlight come as a surprise. Their policies, their negligence, their excuses, their lies, their BS, and their failure to acknowledge those problem areas over a decade are the consistent and overwhelming contributing factors in this epic failure.

 

In short, they are the problem. But they trot out a million and one excuses as to why it’s never their fault.

 

A86FF121-7CB0-4FA2-BCE6-2C07D39DF32F.jpeg

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11 minutes ago, Victorian said:

 

Identify particular critical national interest occupations and make it much,  much easier to recruit people and easier for people to access employment.  Drivers,  doctors,  nurses,  care workers,  there will be others.

 

There's 300k of them not employed as HGV drivers in the UK (if Brigden is correct). They're in the UK and presumably can work here, places are crying out for them, how much easier does it need to be? They simply don't want to do the job, because it isn't an attractive proposition imo. Brexit is adding to the issue, but it's only a part of the issue imo. 

 

Anyway, let's agree to disagree as I appreciate my experience on the topic is relatively limited.

 

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The Real Maroonblood
10 minutes ago, WorldChampions1902 said:

The Tories have been in power over 10 years. But they want us to now believe that all of the staff shortages in these sectors you rightly highlight come as a surprise. Their policies, their negligence, their excuses, their lies, their BS, and their failure to acknowledge those problem areas over a decade are the consistent and overwhelming contributing factors in this epic failure.

 

In short, they are the problem. But they trot out a million and one excuses as to why it’s never their fault.

 

A86FF121-7CB0-4FA2-BCE6-2C07D39DF32F.jpeg

:greatpost:

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3 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

There's 300k of them not employed as HGV drivers in the UK (if Brigden is correct). They're in the UK and presumably can work here, places are crying out for them, how much easier does it need to be? They simply don't want to do the job, because it isn't an attractive proposition imo. Brexit is adding to the issue, but it's only a part of the issue imo. 

 

Anyway, let's agree to disagree as I appreciate my experience on the topic is relatively limited.

 

 

Like my mate, and the tens of thousands of other HGV drivers who work for councils and the such, meaning that they don't work in the haulage industry such as delivering food, petrol, etc etc.   They also could be in that 300k number as well, i.e: HGV licence holders but don't drive in the haulage industry.

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Nucky Thompson

No problem getting fuel, all the pumps were taken, but just drove up behind the two cars fuelling and was next in line.

No shortage of anything in the Supermarket either.

The only hassle today was the amount of HGV's I was stuck behind traveling down on the A1 :muggy:

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27 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

There's 300k of them not employed as HGV drivers in the UK (if Brigden is correct). They're in the UK and presumably can work here, places are crying out for them, how much easier does it need to be? They simply don't want to do the job, because it isn't an attractive proposition imo. Brexit is adding to the issue, but it's only a part of the issue imo. 

 

Anyway, let's agree to disagree as I appreciate my experience on the topic is relatively limited.

 

 

It's pure deflection by rancid gammonists like Brigden.  HGV licence holders who have chosen not to continue a career as an HGV driver are essentially no more an HGV driver in waiting than a lion tamer is.  The solution is to open up the labour market to people who do want to fill the jobs.

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